[BaseballMan]

"True Christianity is unique among the religions of the world in that it is a rational-historical faith. For the Christian, salvation is based on something entirely outside of man. Salvation is found in the faithfulness and perfect sacrifice of the Christ of history. Catholic and Eastern mystics claim to discover God in the depths of their being. The true Christian looks away from himself to the righteousness of Christ Jesus.

Before God, Christ's satisfaction for sin is a reality that is all-sufficient. It does not need to be supplemented by any other reality. God's verdict of justification is not grounded on any state of being within the believing sinner, rather it is established on Christ Jesus alone. The principle that man can save himself by his experience and by his own life has been the foundation of every pagan religion, as it is of Catholicism. What is so sinister about the present communion of Rome with paganism is that it is contaminating our entire society.

The deadly deceptions of mysticism arrogantly advertise a way of direct access to the All Holy God and thereby repudiate any need of the Lord Jesus Christ, the One Mediator between God and men. The believer's worship and approach to God is in the Lord's own words to be with "all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind."

http://christiananswers.net/q-eden/mysti...nnett.html

[thecavemaster]

"True Christianity is unique among the religions of the world in that it is a rational-historical faith. For the Christian, salvation is based on something entirely outside of man. Salvation is found in the faithfulness and perfect sacrifice of the Christ of history. Catholic and Eastern mystics claim to discover God in the depths of their being. The true Christian looks away from himself to the righteousness of Christ Jesus.

Before God, Christ's satisfaction for sin is a reality that is all-sufficient. It does not need to be supplemented by any other reality. God's verdict of justification is not grounded on any state of being within the believing sinner, rather it is established on Christ Jesus alone. The principle that man can save himself by his experience and by his own life has been the foundation of every pagan religion, as it is of Catholicism. What is so sinister about the present communion of Rome with paganism is that it is contaminating our entire society.

The deadly deceptions of mysticism arrogantly advertise a way of direct access to the All Holy God and thereby repudiate any need of the Lord Jesus Christ, the One Mediator between God and men. The believer's worship and approach to God is in the Lord's own words to be with "all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind."

http://christiananswers.net/q-eden/mysti...nnett.html

Your analysis here is accurate in some cases, perhaps more applicable to gnosticism; however, such mystics as Thomas Merton (for one) would not place salvation within the self or within experiences, nor would he disagree with the whole "one mediator" idea. The practice of holy silence, of meditative practice... these kinds of things have parallels in Scripture. Again, an agenda in need of good arguments often overlooks that which points to the contrary.

[BaseballMan]

Your analysis here is accurate in some cases, perhaps more applicable to gnosticism; however, such mystics as Thomas Merton (for one) would not place salvation within the self or within experiences, nor would he disagree with the whole "one mediator" idea. The practice of holy silence, of meditative practice... these kinds of things have parallels in Scripture. Again, an agenda in need of good arguments often overlooks that which points to the contrary.

"now I realize what we all are. And if only everyone could realize this! I suddenly saw all the secret beauty of their hearts, the depths of their hearts where neither sin nor desire nor self-knowledge can reach, the core of their reality, the person that each one is in God's eyes. If only they could or see themselves as they really are. If only we could see each other that way all the time. There would be no more war, no more hatred, no more cruelty, no more greed… I suppose the big problem would be that we would fall down and worship each other."

"A person of true faith travels, not without difficulty, towards the heart of mystery. Such a person, as Merton puts it, 'works his way through the darkness of his own mystery until he discovers that his own mystery and the mystery of God merge into one reality, which is the only reality.' DQ 180."
-----------------------------------------------
These quotations are standard descriptions of the pantheistic myth that we are all in God. In their own minds, Merton and Shannon have literally transmuted God Himself into their own image, having exchanged Him for human beings as an object of worship. Have they not, in the words of Romans 1:23,

"changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man"?
------------------------------------------------
Thus Keating, Merton and Shannon with their pantheistic identification with God have attempted destroy God's self-sufficiency as Creator, and the Lord God Almighty. They have endeavored to clone God into the image of humans. According to Romans 1:25, have they not…

[INDENT]"changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever"?[/INDENT]

No wonder Merton admits,

[INDENT]"If only they could or see themselves as they really are… I suppose the big problem would be that we would fall down and worship each other."[/INDENT]

In the place of the true worship of God, they have set about to establish pantheistic idolatry.

http://christiananswers.net/q-eden/mysti...nnett.html

[thecavemaster]

"now I realize what we all are. And if only everyone could realize this! I suddenly saw all the secret beauty of their hearts, the depths of their hearts where neither sin nor desire nor self-knowledge can reach, the core of their reality, the person that each one is in God's eyes. If only they could or see themselves as they really are. If only we could see each other that way all the time. There would be no more war, no more hatred, no more cruelty, no more greed… I suppose the big problem would be that we would fall down and worship each other."

"A person of true faith travels, not without difficulty, towards the heart of mystery. Such a person, as Merton puts it, 'works his way through the darkness of his own mystery until he discovers that his own mystery and the mystery of God merge into one reality, which is the only reality.' DQ 180."
-----------------------------------------------
These quotations are standard descriptions of the pantheistic myth that we are all in God. In their own minds, Merton and Shannon have literally transmuted God Himself into their own image, having exchanged Him for human beings as an object of worship. Have they not, in the words of Romans 1:23,

"changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man"?
------------------------------------------------
Thus Keating, Merton and Shannon with their pantheistic identification with God have attempted destroy God's self-sufficiency as Creator, and the Lord God Almighty. They have endeavored to clone God into the image of humans. According to Romans 1:25, have they not…

[INDENT]"changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever"?[/INDENT]
No wonder Merton admits,

[INDENT]"If only they could or see themselves as they really are… I suppose the big problem would be that we would fall down and worship each other."[/INDENT]
In the place of the true worship of God, they have set about to establish pantheistic idolatry.

http://christiananswers.net/q-eden/mysti...nnett.html

Your use of the Merton quote is, not surprisingly a "lift and misuse" tactic that Young Earthers have mastered. Merton is here referencing something said by C. S. Lewis. Merton did not worship nature as equal to God...but rather reverenced it as manifesting God, as speaking to the human spirit. I have talked with Young Earthers before and found their cocksureness amusing.

[BaseballMan]

Your use of the Merton quote is, not surprisingly a "lift and misuse" tactic that Young Earthers have mastered. Merton is here referencing something said by C. S. Lewis. Merton did not worship nature as equal to God...but rather reverenced it as manifesting God, as speaking to the human spirit. I have talked with Young Earthers before and found their cocksureness amusing.

You claim it to be "lift and misuse" but you don't back your claim. Where does CS Lewis say what Merton is referencing? You claim that he did not worship nature as equal to God, but his words say otherwise.

[thecavemaster]

You claim it to be "lift and misuse" but you don't back your claim. Where does CS Lewis say what Merton is referencing? You claim that he did not worship nature as equal to God, but his words say otherwise.

Lewis said that were we to see humans in their glory, we would be tempted to worship... were we to see them in their hellish form, we would be horrified. Merton, in his journals, in Seven Story Mountain, in his solitude in the hermitage at the Abbey of Gethsemani (near Bardstown) did have a mystic's insight, a deeper unitive feeling with nature than most, but he did not believe nature was god, though to the one who sees aright, arguments over such things seem trivial.

[BaseballMan]

Lewis said that were we to see humans in their glory, we would be tempted to worship... were we to see them in their hellish form, we would be horrified. Merton, in his journals, in Seven Story Mountain, in his solitude in the hermitage at the Abbey of Gethsemani (near Bardstown) did have a mystic's insight, a deeper unitive feeling with nature than most, but he did not believe nature was god, though to the one who sees aright, arguments over such things seem trivial.

It appears that Lewis was referring to humans in their glorified state in which they would portray the very image of God, and we would be tempted to worship. And if we were to see them in their hellish form, with "weeping and gnashing of teeth" we would be absolutely horrified. He is referring to the afterlife.

I think Merton is misusing this quote from Lewis; however, I do wish to study more about Thomas Merton.

[ComfortEagle]

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