[Shady Grady]

An unborn baby is a baby, a living baby, and no one has the right to end that life. By the time a woman finds out she is pregnant, the baby already has a heartbeat. Funny how a woman has a choice to end a life, but I don't have a choice as to whether or not I want to wear a seatbelt. Also, funny how if a person destroys the egg of an eagle, that person will be sent to jail. Is the eagle more important than a baby? You can argue that an unborn baby depends on the mother to survive, therefore is not an equal. But doesn't a newborn also depend on the mother to survive? If your argument is that the unborn child is not as important or equal to the mother, then all children are not equal to adults until they can sustain life on their own. One of the first executive orders made by Bush that Obama is going to overturn is for federally funded family planning clinics to offer abortion as an alternative to pregnancy. Right now, they have a gag order that they can't volunteer information concerning abortion. Already, the meaning of human life has diminished and he isn't even in office yet.

[thecavemaster]

An unborn baby is a baby, a living baby, and no one has the right to end that life. By the time a woman finds out she is pregnant, the baby already has a heartbeat. Funny how a woman has a choice to end a life, but I don't have a choice as to whether or not I want to wear a seatbelt. Also, funny how if a person destroys the egg of an eagle, that person will be sent to jail. Is the eagle more important than a baby? You can argue that an unborn baby depends on the mother to survive, therefore is not an equal. But doesn't a newborn also depend on the mother to survive? If your argument is that the unborn child is not as important or equal to the mother, then all children are not equal to adults until they can sustain life on their own. One of the first executive orders made by Bush that Obama is going to overturn is for federally funded family planning clinics to offer abortion as an alternative to pregnancy. Right now, they have a gag order that they can't volunteer information concerning abortion. Already, the meaning of human life has diminished and he isn't even in office yet.

Here is my guess: in your thought system, you place greater or lesser value on life, even human life, most every day. To my knowledge, the human race is not an endangered species; however, the way the human race lives on this planet endangers the rest of the species. I am sure you value the existing human life around you by being against universal healthcare, against handgun control legislation, against programs designed to mitigate poverty. I am only guessing...and may be wrong. If you are suggesting that a woman be denied access to information that a human willed miscarriage is an available choice, then I disagree. A heartbeat exists in a flat EEG patient; that is not a debate ender... it may be for you, but that's another thing altogether.

[*Central_Cheer_Chick]

I heard on the radio that a woman and her UNBORN child were killed in a car accident recently. It did not specify how far along the woman was, but it did say that the man who hit them is being charged for fetal homicide. Fetal homicide is basically when someone kills an unborn baby (fetus). Wouldn't abortion fall under that category?

[thecavemaster]

I heard on the radio that a woman and her UNBORN child were killed in a car accident recently. It did not specify how far along the woman was, but it did say that the man who hit them is being charged for fetal homicide. Fetal homicide is basically when someone kills an unborn baby (fetus). Wouldn't abortion fall under that category?

The fertilized egg has value (in my position). Why not just "homicide"? Isn't a distinction being made between "fetus" if the charge is not simply homicide? I simply suggest that, in relative terms, the existing woman has more relative value than the fertilized egg in the womb, attached to the umbilical cord.

[thecavemaster]

I had a close friend who developed a condition that, basically, rendered her pregnancy, her developing fertilized egg, toxic to her own body, endangering her life. A decision was made to D & C, ending the pregnancy. Isn't that a "relative value" decision?

[Shady Grady]

Here is my guess: in your thought system, you place greater or lesser value on life, even human life, most every day. To my knowledge, the human race is not an endangered species; however, the way the human race lives on this planet endangers the rest of the species. I am sure you value the existing human life around you by being against universal healthcare, against handgun control legislation, against programs designed to mitigate poverty. I am only guessing...and may be wrong. If you are suggesting that a woman be denied access to information that a human willed miscarriage is an available choice, then I disagree. A heartbeat exists in a flat EEG patient; that is not a debate ender... it may be for you, but that's another thing altogether.

The more you talk, the less sense you make. The human race is more important than that of an eagle. what does valuing human life got to do with universal healthcare? Or gun control? What the heck does owning a gun for sport got to do with the value of human life? Hide all you want to, but murder is murder. I hope you feel alright standing in front of God arguing that it is okay to kill an unborn baby. EVERYONE who has had a hand in the innocent killings will answer to HIM one day. People have no more right to kill an unborn baby than to kill someone walking down the street. And if anyone values the egg of an eagle more than an unborn baby, then their thought process became warped somewhere along the line. I find it amusing that most everyone who supports abortion also supports gay rights and everything else that would make God sick to his stomach. This country's morals have gone to **** in a handbasket, and until this country changes, we will be doomed. Every nation in history that has turned its back on God has fallen. This country won't be destroyed by outside forces. It will implode on its own.

[thecavemaster]

The more you talk, the less sense you make. The human race is more important than that of an eagle. what does valuing human life got to do with universal healthcare? Or gun control? What the heck does owning a gun for sport got to do with the value of human life? Hide all you want to, but murder is murder. I hope you feel alright standing in front of God arguing that it is okay to kill an unborn baby. EVERYONE who has had a hand in the innocent killings will answer to HIM one day. People have no more right to kill an unborn baby than to kill someone walking down the street. And if anyone values the egg of an eagle more than an unborn baby, then their thought process became warped somewhere along the line. I find it amusing that most everyone who supports abortion also supports gay rights and everything else that would make God sick to his stomach. This country's morals have gone to **** in a handbasket, and until this country changes, we will be doomed. Every nation in history that has turned its back on God has fallen. This country won't be destroyed by outside forces. It will implode on its own.

"god" has killed more babies ("miscarriages") than the whole human race combined. Absence of medical insurance helps kill people. Handguns, passed out like candy, help kill people. I did not say an "eagle egg" has more relative value than a human being. God does not get sick to his stomach, as I understand it, as "spirit" does not have gastrointestinal difficulties. You sound like a quote book from Jerry Falwell.

[thecavemaster]

Does homosexuality make "god" more "sick" than malicious gossip or mean spiritedness or absence of mercy and compassion?

[Shady Grady]

"god" has killed more babies ("miscarriages") than the whole human race combined. Absence of medical insurance helps kill people. Handguns, passed out like candy, help kill people. I did not say an "eagle egg" has more relative value than a human being. God does not get sick to his stomach, as I understand it, as "spirit" does not have gastrointestinal difficulties. You sound like a quote book from Jerry Falwell.

I have finally figured out your angle. You talk in circles to confuse everyone including yourself. Yes, God has allowed miscarriages. But man in not God. To argue that we can abort a baby just because God allows miscarriages is scary. If that is so, then God has allowed wars, so it is okay to stand in the streets with an assault rifle and pick off everyone we don't like. God allows people to die in car wrecks, so we can get in the largest vehicle we can buy and run people down just because we don't like how they drive. Just because God allows things to happen in his plan doesn't mean we get to take the reins and do it for him. As for the stomach, Rev. 3:16 says, "So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither coldnor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth". Whether that mouth is literal or figurative, I don't know. But whichever it is, then so is the stomach. Genesis 6:6 says, "And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart". There's two verses that refer to a heart and a mouth. As far as man wanting to do what he wishes, Luke 16:15 says, "Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God". So just because it makes man happy doesn't mean it makes God happy. As as far as homosexuals, Genesis 19 tells the story of two angels that came to visit Lot. The men of the city wanted the men, and we can find in verse 7 that Lot says, "I pray you, brethern, do not so wickedly". That tells us that it is wicked. If you will bother to read the rest of the chapter, you will find how that wickedness caused God to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah. So go ahead and kid yourself. Then is you that Luke talks about when he calls it an abomination in the sight of God.

[thecavemaster]

I have finally figured out your angle. You talk in circles to confuse everyone including yourself. Yes, God has allowed miscarriages. But man in not God. To argue that we can abort a baby just because God allows miscarriages is scary. If that is so, then God has allowed wars, so it is okay to stand in the streets with an assault rifle and pick off everyone we don't like. God allows people to die in car wrecks, so we can get in the largest vehicle we can buy and run people down just because we don't like how they drive. Just because God allows things to happen in his plan doesn't mean we get to take the reins and do it for him. As for the stomach, Rev. 3:16 says, "So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither coldnor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth". Whether that mouth is literal or figurative, I don't know. But whichever it is, then so is the stomach. Genesis 6:6 says, "And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart". There's two verses that refer to a heart and a mouth. As far as man wanting to do what he wishes, Luke 16:15 says, "Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God". So just because it makes man happy doesn't mean it makes God happy. As as far as homosexuals, Genesis 19 tells the story of two angels that came to visit Lot. The men of the city wanted the men, and we can find in verse 7 that Lot says, "I pray you, brethern, do not so wickedly". That tells us that it is wicked. If you will bother to read the rest of the chapter, you will find how that wickedness caused God to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah. So go ahead and kid yourself. Then is you that Luke talks about when he calls it an abomination in the sight of God.

Isn't it those who claim "jesus" who are being "spewed out of the mouth"?
If I have an angle, you have an angle, everyone in the world has an angle.
I am not confused. I know what I believe. I like to debate. I have no need to sentence other people to heaven or ****... if a dragnet is being pulled through the earth, it is not mine to sort. If there is a "jesus," as I read him, I don't think homosexuals offend him any more than the Pharisee.

[Shady Grady]

Isn't it those who claim "jesus" who are being "spewed out of the mouth"?
If I have an angle, you have an angle, everyone in the world has an angle.
I am not confused. I know what I believe. I like to debate. I have no need to sentence other people to heaven or ****... if a dragnet is being pulled through the earth, it is not mine to sort. If there is a "jesus," as I read him, I don't think homosexuals offend him any more than the Pharisee.

My point was you mentioned it was impossible to have a stomach, when I quoted two verses that referred to a mouth and heart. And if you don't know for sure if there is a Jesus, then one of these days, you will know for sure. And yes, you are right both the homosexual and the Pharisee offended Him. So, just because the Pharisee offended Him, that doesn't make the homosexual right. Wrong is wrong, both the homosexual and the Pharisee.

[thecavemaster]

My point was you mentioned it was impossible to have a stomach, when I quoted two verses that referred to a mouth and heart. And if you don't know for sure if there is a Jesus, then one of these days, you will know for sure. And yes, you are right both the homosexual and the Pharisee offended Him. So, just because the Pharisee offended Him, that doesn't make the homosexual right. Wrong is wrong, both the homosexual and the Pharisee.

IF jesus existed, and was "in very being god," he had a stomach. IF "god is spirit," spirit doesn't have a stomach. Wouldn't it be correct to say that the homosexual takes a lot more judgment from your average Christian than the legalistic, negative and critical "christian"? People within their religious traditions think lots of things are "wrong," and that is ok, but foisting beliefs upon others who don't believe, and denying them "equal protection under the law," that's problematic in a constitutional democracy.

[Shady Grady]

IF jesus existed, and was "in very being god," he had a stomach. IF "god is spirit," spirit doesn't have a stomach. Wouldn't it be correct to say that the homosexual takes a lot more judgment from your average Christian than the legalistic, negative and critical "christian"? People within their religious traditions think lots of things are "wrong," and that is ok, but foisting beliefs upon others who don't believe, and denying them "equal protection under the law," that's problematic in a constitutional democracy.

This country was founded on Christian beliefs. The bible plainly speaks against homosexuals. If you choose to believe that is their right and we have no right to impose those beliefs on them, well, I suppose that is what the people of Sodom and Gomorrah thought also. We all know what happened to them. God created this earth and man. What is problematic is when God destroys nations that turn against Him.

[thecavemaster]

This country was founded on Christian beliefs. The bible plainly speaks against homosexuals. If you choose to believe that is their right and we have no right to impose those beliefs on them, well, I suppose that is what the people of Sodom and Gomorrah thought also. We all know what happened to them. God created this earth and man. What is problematic is when God destroys nations that turn against Him.

If I remember right, a bunch of townspeople came out and wanted to forcibly have sex with the strangers. In order to prevent a horrible faux pas, the owner of the house gave the crowd his daughter to sodomize. This reveals a certain degradation of humanity that I would hope you are not suggesting I support. You might want to read the new testament every now and then. The rain falls on good and evil: the sun shines on just and unjust... brimstone hasn't rained down recently (except perhaps at Hiroshima and Nagasaki...but then that wasn't "god"). This country was founded upon a Constitution. The Jueaeo/Christian tradition shaped a lot of beliefs, but it isn't like the overall bent of the Founders was to open the Bible, say, "Hey, we're a theocracy'... that's not what happened.

[Beetle01]

If I remember right, a bunch of townspeople came out and wanted to forcibly have sex with the strangers. In order to prevent a horrible faux pas, the owner of the house gave the crowd his daughter to sodomize. This reveals a certain degradation of humanity that I would hope you are not suggesting I support. You might want to read the new testament every now and then. The rain falls on good and evil: the sun shines on just and unjust... brimstone hasn't rained down recently (except perhaps at Hiroshima and Nagasaki...but then that wasn't "god"). This country was founded upon a Constitution. The Jueaeo/Christian tradition shaped a lot of beliefs, but it isn't like the overall bent of the Founders was to open the Bible, say, "Hey, we're a theocracy'... that's not what happened.

The founding fathers did intend this country to be based on Christian beliefs and morals. Ive posted many quotes from them on this board, stating that exactly. Actually you can find most of them felt if this country ever strayed from its Christian beliefs it would fall, as it was only designed to operate under such beliefs. It seems that we are headed that way more and more each day. People like yourself who support abortion, gay rights, and gun control, will be the reason this country fails. Just plain and simple, not just those 3 things but also trying to eliminate poverty, which is impossible. Trying to make everyone equal, which is impossible. If we strive for those things we will surely fail.

[thecavemaster]

The founding fathers did intend this country to be based on Christian beliefs and morals. Ive posted many quotes from them on this board, stating that exactly. Actually you can find most of them felt if this country ever strayed from its Christian beliefs it would fall, as it was only designed to operate under such beliefs. It seems that we are headed that way more and more each day. People like yourself who support abortion, gay rights, and gun control, will be the reason this country fails. Just plain and simple, not just those 3 things but also trying to eliminate poverty, which is impossible. Trying to make everyone equal, which is impossible. If we strive for those things we will surely fail.

Thomas Jefferson put together a book in which he took out everything in the Gospels that could not be understood in terms of human logic. "People like me" have existed over America's history in large numbers...yet this country is still here. Perhaps "god" will strike us down for ruining the planet with smoke and smog and burning fumes and sewage? Perhaps "god" will strike us down for hard hearts toward the poor? Perhaps "god" will strike us down for handing out handguns like candy? Perhaps "god" will strike us down for silver and gold lifestyles? All of these I could argue from the "bible" in the same way you argue based on your "christian" beliefs. Also, violation of freedom of conscience was not counseled by the wisest of our Founding Fathers.

[Beetle01]

Who has hard hearts toward the poor?
Who hands out guns like candy? that is a joke. Go buy a gun right now. I bet you can't, unless you get it from some backwoods dealer. and you'll never stop those.

you act like I am for pollution, that Im for giving guns to kids, or holding down the poor. I'm not. But you are for gay rights, abortion and so on.

you try and bring religion and God into every topic.
I didn't say anything about God in my post other than the founders designed this country to be ran by Christians for Christians, but to be acceptive of all forms of religion and not persecute those people. That is simple fact thomas Jefferson himself said this country was designed for Christian people, and under any other type of rule it will fail.

[thecavemaster]

Who has hard hearts toward the poor?
Who hands out guns like candy? that is a joke. Go buy a gun right now. I bet you can't, unless you get it from some backwoods dealer. and you'll never stop those.

you act like I am for pollution, that Im for giving guns to kids, or holding down the poor. I'm not. But you are for gay rights, abortion and so on.

you try and bring religion and God into every topic.
I didn't say anything about God in my post other than the founders designed this country to be ran by Christians for Christians, but to be acceptive of all forms of religion and not persecute those people. That is simple fact thomas Jefferson himself said this country was designed for Christian people, and under any other type of rule it will fail.

Are you denying that a certain view of "christian principles" colors a lot of what you believe? This country, in the Declaration of Independence, suggest that all human beings are created equal. If you are suggesting that Thomas Jefferson had a "If you ain't christian get out" mindset, I don't know what you are reading. A lot of these men were of the Enlightenment, with a deep belief in human reason and scientific type inquiry.

[Shady Grady]

If I remember right, a bunch of townspeople came out and wanted to forcibly have sex with the strangers. In order to prevent a horrible faux pas, the owner of the house gave the crowd his daughter to sodomize. This reveals a certain degradation of humanity that I would hope you are not suggesting I support. You might want to read the new testament every now and then. The rain falls on good and evil: the sun shines on just and unjust... brimstone hasn't rained down recently (except perhaps at Hiroshima and Nagasaki...but then that wasn't "god"). This country was founded upon a Constitution. The Jueaeo/Christian tradition shaped a lot of beliefs, but it isn't like the overall bent of the Founders was to open the Bible, say, "Hey, we're a theocracy'... that's not what happened.

You are the one who needs to read the new testament. You question the whether Jesus existed. You uphold the very things like abortion and gay rights that the bible speaks against. Yes, he did offer his daughter, that is how evil homosexuality is, that it would be better for his daughter to be offered than the men. You and everyone with your liberal beliefs go ahead. God will prove you wrong some day. Yes it does rain on the just and the unjust, but in the end those who partake in the evil doings will forever burn. No, I am not judging, that is a righteous judgement. Very simply, if we don't do what God has told us to do, he will destroy us. He is a loving God, and also a jealous God, and One who will condemn the evil doers to an eternal ****ation. Hide behind your liberal views all you want, murder is murder, no way around it. One of the things that God hates is hands that shed innocent blood. What can be more innocent than an unborn baby? And by the way, have you ever seen how an unborn baby reacts when it is aborted with the strong saline solution? It tries to get away, meaning that is does suffer the pain of being burned. I suggest anyone who supports abortion, really study it. Look at photos, at video, and tell me that baby deserves to be punished because someone doesn't want it.

[thecavemaster]

You are the one who needs to read the new testament. You question the whether Jesus existed. You uphold the very things like abortion and gay rights that the bible speaks against. Yes, he did offer his daughter, that is how evil homosexuality is, that it would be better for his daughter to be offered than the men. You and everyone with your liberal beliefs go ahead. God will prove you wrong some day. Yes it does rain on the just and the unjust, but in the end those who partake in the evil doings will forever burn. No, I am not judging, that is a righteous judgement. Very simply, if we don't do what God has told us to do, he will destroy us. He is a loving God, and also a jealous God, and One who will condemn the evil doers to an eternal ****ation. Hide behind your liberal views all you want, murder is murder, no way around it. One of the things that God hates is hands that shed innocent blood. What can be more innocent than an unborn baby? And by the way, have you ever seen how an unborn baby reacts when it is aborted with the strong saline solution? It tries to get away, meaning that is does suffer the pain of being burned. I suggest anyone who supports abortion, really study it. Look at photos, at video, and tell me that baby deserves to be punished because someone doesn't want it.

You do love the liberal label. I am not a homosexual. I have never had an abortion. If a dragnet is being pulled through the earth, you are to do nothing about it. It is not your job. You are not to call fire and brimstone down on anyone or anything. You are not to hold contempt in your heart for anyone. An unborn baby is not capable of inocence or guilt, though it is attributed with indwelling sin according to christian tradition from the Middle Ages and beyond.

[DevilsWin]

You are the one who needs to read the new testament. You question the whether Jesus existed. You uphold the very things like abortion and gay rights that the bible speaks against. Yes, he did offer his daughter, that is how evil homosexuality is, that it would be better for his daughter to be offered than the men. You and everyone with your liberal beliefs go ahead. God will prove you wrong some day. Yes it does rain on the just and the unjust, but in the end those who partake in the evil doings will forever burn. No, I am not judging, that is a righteous judgement. Very simply, if we don't do what God has told us to do, he will destroy us. He is a loving God, and also a jealous God, and One who will condemn the evil doers to an eternal ****ation. Hide behind your liberal views all you want, murder is murder, no way around it. One of the things that God hates is hands that shed innocent blood. What can be more innocent than an unborn baby? And by the way, have you ever seen how an unborn baby reacts when it is aborted with the strong saline solution? It tries to get away, meaning that is does suffer the pain of being burned. I suggest anyone who supports abortion, really study it. Look at photos, at video, and tell me that baby deserves to be punished because someone doesn't want it.

So do you support the capet bombing of entire villages? Innocent life is murdered when that happens.

What about a guy on death row that didn't commit the crime. Tax dollars killed him. Our tax Dollars. Innocent life is lost and the blood is on our hands.

I'm against killing all together but I also support a womans right to choose.

[Shady Grady]

It is my job to speak against evil things. As long as I can draw a breath, I will speak against such things. And for all those who support abortion, there are literally tens of thousands of people wanting to adopt, who will love a child no matter who the birthmother is. I know. I've done it.

[thecavemaster]

It is my job to speak against evil things. As long as I can draw a breath, I will speak against such things. And for all those who support abortion, there are literally tens of thousands of people wanting to adopt, who will love a child no matter who the birthmother is. I know. I've done it.

If I understand the Jewish to Christian evolution, no nation now on earth is "the nation of god." The church, the mustard seed, the mystery of the kingdom, is scattered across the globe, east, west, north and south. SG: if your church begins to promote homosexual marriage or advocates abortion rights, call a deacon meeting and address it. However, in a Constitutional democracy, the deacon's meeting decisions do not rise above established rights and privileges as recognized by the Constituion, as interpreted by the courts, as codified by the legislatures.

[Shady Grady]

If I understand the Jewish to Christian evolution, no nation now on earth is "the nation of god." The church, the mustard seed, the mystery of the kingdom, is scattered across the globe, east, west, north and south. SG: if your church begins to promote homosexual marriage or advocates abortion rights, call a deacon meeting and address it. However, in a Constitutional democracy, the deacon's meeting decisions do not rise above established rights and privileges as recognized by the Constituion, as interpreted by the courts, as codified by the legislatures.

Was abortion rights and homosexual rights part of the original constitution? I don't think so. Only after the liberals pushed their ideas on others did it come about. So don't condemn me for expressing my views. If the liberals hadn't gotten so immoral, these issuses would never have come up. Like I said in an earlier post, just because men thinks it is okay, don't make it okay. Again, every nation in history that has turned its back on God has suffered. So, again, when did it become a constitutional right to have abortions and gay rights? Not in the original.

[phs1986]

It is my job to speak against evil things. As long as I can draw a breath, I will speak against such things. And for all those who support abortion, there are literally tens of thousands of people wanting to adopt, who will love a child no matter who the birthmother is. I know. I've done it.

EXCELLENT post and ever so true!!!

[thecavemaster]

Was abortion rights and homosexual rights part of the original constitution? I don't think so. Only after the liberals pushed their ideas on others did it come about. So don't condemn me for expressing my views. If the liberals hadn't gotten so immoral, these issuses would never have come up. Like I said in an earlier post, just because men thinks it is okay, don't make it okay. Again, every nation in history that has turned its back on God has suffered. So, again, when did it become a constitutional right to have abortions and gay rights? Not in the original.

The right for women to vote, for dark skinned peoples to be free of being held as chattel? It became a constitution right in these areas after "the original." The document is not dead: it is a living, breathing, evolving dedication to equality and fairness and justice and liberty (or so one would hope). I do not condemn you for expressing your views, a different thing from disagreeing with your views. Post, post, and re-post, SG. By the way, believing in women have a right to privacy (choice), and that homosexuals should receive equal protection under the law does not make a person "immoral."
From the north, east, west and south make for god's "we" now...scattered on the planet (if such things be true). SG, you have failed to understand the switch in covenants. New wine in old wineskins...won't hold it.

[Beetle01]

The right for women to vote, for dark skinned peoples to be free of being held as chattel? It became a constitution right in these areas after "the original." The document is not dead: it is a living, breathing, evolving dedication to equality and fairness and justice and liberty (or so one would hope). I do not condemn you for expressing your views, a different thing from disagreeing with your views. Post, post, and re-post, SG. By the way, believing in women have a right to privacy (choice), and that homosexuals should receive equal protection under the law does not make a person "immoral."
From the north, east, west and south make for god's "we" now...scattered on the planet (if such things be true). SG, you have failed to understand the switch in covenants. New wine in old wineskins...won't hold it.

You're right the constitution is designed to be changed.
I hear Abortion Rights and Gay Rights activists claim that their rights are being violated. However, neither of those rights are listed in the constitution. SO if they wish for those rights, all they need to do is get an amendment passed like the rights of womens and blacks were passed. If they can do that, then no state will be able to deny them the rights they are asking for. However, they know there is no way 38 states in this country would ratify such an amendment. Maybe the Gays can go around beating up more elderly women, that really furthers their cause.

[DevilsWin]

You're right the constitution is designed to be changed.
I hear Abortion Rights and Gay Rights activists claim that their rights are being violated. However, neither of those rights are listed in the constitution. SO if they wish for those rights, all they need to do is get an amendment passed like the rights of womens and blacks were passed. If they can do that, then no state will be able to deny them the rights they are asking for. However, they know there is no way 38 states in this country would ratify such an amendment. Maybe the Gays can go around beating up more elderly women, that really furthers their cause.

They don't want special rights. They only want the same rights we have. Read below and you will see that their cause is just under the principle founding document of this country.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain Unalienable Rights, that among these are Life,Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from theconsent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

What about this do you people not understand?

[thecavemaster]

You're right the constitution is designed to be changed.
I hear Abortion Rights and Gay Rights activists claim that their rights are being violated. However, neither of those rights are listed in the constitution. SO if they wish for those rights, all they need to do is get an amendment passed like the rights of womens and blacks were passed. If they can do that, then no state will be able to deny them the rights they are asking for. However, they know there is no way 38 states in this country would ratify such an amendment. Maybe the Gays can go around beating up more elderly women, that really furthers their cause.

Unless I'm mistaken, a woman's right to vote is not mentioned, freedom from enslavement is not mentioned, freedom from segretation is not specifically mentioned. Then, in light of the ideals spoken in the document, interpretation followed that brought "light" to the ideas of liberty and equality and fairness therein expressed. Let us say 38 states do not ratify a woman's right to vote. Is that the end? No. In a Constutional Democracy, there is more to essential liberty than a showing of hands.

[Beetle01]

Unless I'm mistaken, a woman's right to vote is not mentioned, freedom from enslavement is not mentioned, freedom from segretation is not specifically mentioned. Then, in light of the ideals spoken in the document, interpretation followed that brought "light" to the ideas of liberty and equality and fairness therein expressed. Let us say 38 states do not ratify a woman's right to vote. Is that the end? No. In a Constutional Democracy, there is more to essential liberty than a showing of hands.

The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex.
Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.


Pretty much covers it right there.
That amendment had to be ratified by 38 states. Until then women would not and still would not have the right to vote.

I find it interesting that on one hand liberals scream seperation of church and state but on the other want to the govt to step in on a religious matter. Marriage has a religious beginning and is a religous act. Even if you don't believe in God, if you go through the act of being married, it is a religious act.