[Beetle01]

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/...uppor.html

ABC News' Matthew Jaffe Reports: Sen. Joe Biden, D-Del., on Sunday guaranteed that if elected, Sen. Barack Obama., D-Ill., will be tested by an international crisis within his first six months in power and he will need supporters to stand by him as he makes tough, and possibly unpopular, decisions.

"Mark my words," the Democratic vice presidential nominee warned at the second of his two Seattle fundraisers Sunday. "It will not be six months before the world tests Barack Obama like they did John Kennedy. The world is looking. We're about to elect a brilliant 47-year-old senator president of the United States of America. Remember I said it standing here if you don't remember anything else I said. Watch, we're gonna have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy."

"I can give you at least four or five scenarios from where it might originate," Biden said to Emerald City supporters, mentioning the Middle East and Russia as possibilities. "And he's gonna need help. And the kind of help he's gonna need is, he's gonna need you - not financially to help him - we're gonna need you to use your influence, your influence within the community, to stand with him. Because it's not gonna be apparent initially, it's not gonna be apparent that we're right."




Its obvious he must know something we don't. Especially since starting last week both Presidential compaigns have been getting updated by the FBI and other 3 letter organizations about security issues so that there will be less preping to do after the election.

[ComfortEagle]

For some reason, there was talk about a "Bay of Pigs" type crisis yesterday on the news talk radio stations.

[Old School]

It's not going to a cakewalk for whomever wins this election, they will have to deal with terrorism, the economy, immigration and a multiude of other issues. I'm afraid the next 4-6 years will be the toughest we have ever faced.

[DevilsWin]

It's not going to a cakewalk for whomever wins this election, they will have to deal with terrorism, the economy, immigration and a multiude of other issues. I'm afraid the next 4-6 years will be the toughest we have ever faced.

I'm not afraid at all!

You don't have much faith in America do you Old School?

[Old School]

I'm not afraid at all!

You don't have much faith in America do you Old School?

IMO a person would be foolish not to be afraid in these times. Russia is gaining power again, South Korea and Iran are building nuclear weapons, Pakistan already has nuclear weapons. The OPEC nations cound devastate our economy if they decided to stop selling us oil or just scale production back enough to raise oil prices.

[Beetle01]

I think everyone knows that foreign powers are building up to test our power and world standing, I'm not 100% saying its going to be by military action, but it very well could be.

What really struck me as weerd in the comment was the following
"Because it's not gonna be apparent initially, it's not gonna be apparent that we're right."

Other than that I didn't think much of the comment, but after that last part it kinda tied it all up.

For me I'd say all intel is pointing to the Chinese moving into Taiwan. They saw we did nothing with our ally Georgia when Russia went in. The chinese are seeing us as incapable of doing anything right now, especially right after an election which will have a new President in office. Not to mention the Chinese have been doing exercises in preperation for such an action over the last year. I'd also say that Obama's response will be to do nothing, which will anger most of this nation as once again we will let an ally get invaded and stand by idly.

[thecavemaster]

I think everyone knows that foreign powers are building up to test our power and world standing, I'm not 100% saying its going to be by military action, but it very well could be.

What really struck me as weerd in the comment was the following
"Because it's not gonna be apparent initially, it's not gonna be apparent that we're right."

Other than that I didn't think much of the comment, but after that last part it kinda tied it all up.

For me I'd say all intel is pointing to the Chinese moving into Taiwan. They saw we did nothing with our ally Georgia when Russia went in. The chinese are seeing us as incapable of doing anything right now, especially right after an election which will have a new President in office. Not to mention the Chinese have been doing exercises in preperation for such an action over the last year. I'd also say that Obama's response will be to do nothing, which will anger most of this nation as once again we will let an ally get invaded and stand by idly.

China violates human rights, en masse, on a daily basis. Beyond a lot of talk, we do nothing. Our economic interests are so intertwined, what could we do? You paint Obama as some sort of novice Boogey Man: would you encourage the invasion of China in response to their invasion of Taiwan? Care must be shown: China is no Iraq, for military, economic and social reasons, they are formidable, very formidable.

[Beetle01]

China violates human rights, en masse, on a daily basis. Beyond a lot of talk, we do nothing. Our economic interests are so intertwined, what could we do? You paint Obama as some sort of novice Boogey Man: would you encourage the invasion of China in response to their invasion of Taiwan? Care must be shown: China is no Iraq, for military, economic and social reasons, they are formidable, very formidable.

No I don't propose an invasion of China. I don't portray Obama as a boogey man, I just don't like his proposals.
Our economic interests are not so intertwined, if anything, China hurts more than they help. Sure we get cheaper products, but how many manufacturing jobs have companies shipped to China?

So this being theory anyways, would you be okay standing by and letting China retake Taiwan? You know their human rights record, I couldn't imagine the violations that would go on against the people in Taiwan. Of course the chinese would pay dearly in casualties, because due to us, the Taiwanese have more than sticks and stones.

[thecavemaster]

No I don't propose an invasion of China. I don't portray Obama as a boogey man, I just don't like his proposals.
Our economic interests are not so intertwined, if anything, China hurts more than they help. Sure we get cheaper products, but how many manufacturing jobs have companies shipped to China?

So this being theory anyways, would you be okay standing by and letting China retake Taiwan? You know their human rights record, I couldn't imagine the violations that would go on against the people in Taiwan. Of course the chinese would pay dearly in casualties, because due to us, the Taiwanese have more than sticks and stones.

Go to Walmart. PIck up items. Imagine the US economy bound up in the Chinese economy. China's record on human rights is abysmal. China would overwhelm Taiwan, based on sheer numbers if nothing else. A war with China is a "no win" situation for us, for them, for the whole world.

[Beetle01]

You just proved my point, Ill gladly pay a little more per item if it means jobs in America, because in the long run it strengthens our economy whichh strengthens our currency which means my dollar will go further. A war with China kills their economy. We would just suffer, and Wal Mart would be in trouble.

A war usually is a no win for anybody, however, so we just let Taiwan get taken over?

[thecavemaster]

You just proved my point, Ill gladly pay a little more per item if it means jobs in America, because in the long run it strengthens our economy whichh strengthens our currency which means my dollar will go further. A war with China kills their economy. We would just suffer, and Wal Mart would be in trouble.

A war usually is a no win for anybody, however, so we just let Taiwan get taken over?

We go to the UN. We talk about sanctions. We outcry publicly. And, ultimately, we accept it. I'm not talking about the ideal here. I am talking about what would more than likely happen. China as a real deal power nation, probably more so than Germany and Japan in WWII.

[Beetle01]

We go to the UN. We talk about sanctions. We outcry publicly. And, ultimately, we accept it. I'm not talking about the ideal here. I am talking about what would more than likely happen. China as a real deal power nation, probably more so than Germany and Japan in WWII.

LOL what a joke of an idea.

Lets see what happens to the rest of our allies as they tumble one by one. I guess people have forgotten there is real evil out there, and that nations will if they see an oppurtunity or think we are to weak, THEY WILL attack us again. Why did Japan do it in WW2? Why did the Nazi's try to take over Europe? They could have been just as prosperous had they just stayed at home, but no thats not how this world works. The Chinese will eventually make a power grab, and if we don't smack them back down, eventually they will come for us. Of course now with the rise of Russia again, we may wait to long and then be able to do nothing about it.

If you honestly think that there won't come a time when the Russians and Chinese will make a move against us if we don't keep them in check, you need to lay off whatever drugs you are using. It may not be in 5 years, it may not be in 10. Doesn't mean we shouldn't be fully prepared if an event does occur and do everything we can to keep it from happening. And if you honestly think we have the ability to defend ourselves from both of those nations at the same time, your completely wrong. They would run through us in a matter of months.

[Beetle01]

Here's an article form 05, seriously read it, its not politcal propoganda and has nothing to do with the election.
http://www.newswithviews.com/baldwin/baldwin259.htm

http://www.brookings.edu/opinions/2005/0...anlon.aspx

[thecavemaster]

LOL what a joke of an idea.

Lets see what happens to the rest of our allies as they tumble one by one. I guess people have forgotten there is real evil out there, and that nations will if they see an oppurtunity or think we are to weak, THEY WILL attack us again. Why did Japan do it in WW2? Why did the Nazi's try to take over Europe? They could have been just as prosperous had they just stayed at home, but no thats not how this world works. The Chinese will eventually make a power grab, and if we don't smack them back down, eventually they will come for us. Of course now with the rise of Russia again, we may wait to long and then be able to do nothing about it.

If you honestly think that there won't come a time when the Russians and Chinese will make a move against us if we don't keep them in check, you need to lay off whatever drugs you are using. It may not be in 5 years, it may not be in 10. Doesn't mean we shouldn't be fully prepared if an event does occur and do everything we can to keep it from happening. And if you honestly think we have the ability to defend ourselves from both of those nations at the same time, your completely wrong. They would run through us in a matter of months.

It seems to me that I did not address in my response much of what you rant about here. I said: China is a more powerful nation at this point in time than was Germany or Japan (probably both together at that point in time). I do not think a Chinese take over of Taiwan would be met with a US military response. I have an occasional Bloody Mary, but Tylenol is my drug of choice every so often. I did not question the need for preparedness. You invent straw men, tear them down, then say, "What a good boy am I."

[vundy33]

We go to the UN. We talk about sanctions. We outcry publicly. And, ultimately, we accept it. I'm not talking about the ideal here. I am talking about what would more than likely happen. China as a real deal power nation, probably more so than Germany and Japan in WWII.

I agree with you on this one...If something like that did happen we couldn't afford to intervene. Even though we would eliminate China fairly easy it would not be a smart decision on our part. Anyway I think other Asian nations would step up and put a stop to it.

[vundy33]

It seems to me that I did not address in my response much of what you rant about here. I said: China is a more powerful nation at this point in time than was Germany or Japan (probably both together at that point in time). I do not think a Chinese take over of Taiwan would be met with a US military response. I have an occasional Bloody Mary, but Tylenol is my drug of choice every so often. I did not question the need for preparedness. You invent straw men, tear them down, then say, "What a good boy am I."

You are dead wrong about China being a more powerful nation than Germany or Japan in WWII...Germany had the newest technology possible at the time. China's combat systems are about 15 years behind ours. Their Navy would be the biggest obstacle for the U.S. but wouldn't be anything we couldn't handle. Their Air Corps doesn't compare to the United States'.

[vundy33]

LOL what a joke of an idea.

Lets see what happens to the rest of our allies as they tumble one by one. I guess people have forgotten there is real evil out there, and that nations will if they see an oppurtunity or think we are to weak, THEY WILL attack us again. Why did Japan do it in WW2? Why did the Nazi's try to take over Europe? They could have been just as prosperous had they just stayed at home, but no thats not how this world works. The Chinese will eventually make a power grab, and if we don't smack them back down, eventually they will come for us. Of course now with the rise of Russia again, we may wait to long and then be able to do nothing about it.

If you honestly think that there won't come a time when the Russians and Chinese will make a move against us if we don't keep them in check, you need to lay off whatever drugs you are using. It may not be in 5 years, it may not be in 10. Doesn't mean we shouldn't be fully prepared if an event does occur and do everything we can to keep it from happening. And if you honestly think we have the ability to defend ourselves from both of those nations at the same time, your completely wrong. They would run through us in a matter of months.

You need to educate yourself.

[thecavemaster]

You are dead wrong about China being a more powerful nation than Germany or Japan in WWII...Germany had the newest technology possible at the time. China's combat systems are about 15 years behind ours. Their Navy would be the biggest obstacle for the U.S. but wouldn't be anything we couldn't handle. Their Air Corps doesn't compare to the United States'.

China has wealth...and, what is it, 1/3 (1/4?) of the world's population. As I understand it, they are very, very secretive about their military capacity. Their population alone, with forced military service and intense nationalism, make them, at the least, the equal of Germany and Japan. I don't think "dead wrong" estimates the Chinese situation accrurately.

[Beetle01]

You need to educate yourself.

Americans have ebcome to comfortbale in their belief that we have the ability to take on the world if need be. So not true. Our military still suffers heavily from the gutting Clinton did to it. I don't even want to imagine what it will be like if Obama was to get his red pen to it.

China would be a huge struggle for us, but combined with Russia would run us through. Not in an invasion, but in a contest of military power elsewhere in the world, say Taiwan or one of the Russian satellite states which they so desperately want to bring back under their control. A combined move by Russia into the Ukraine and China into Taiwan would leave the west with no plausible action but war. There is nothing we could do. UN would be useless since both China and Russia hold veto votes on the security council. NATO would be our only hope, but sadly European nations don't have the guts to take on those 2 powers, they are to well supplied with oil from Russia to do anything. You top that with a move by ME countries against Israel, and who knows what would happen, or what we could even do to prevent any of it.
These are all real possibilities, and these countries become closer and closer allies everyday.

This country can't even stomach to lose 600 soliders in a year, I couldn't imagine if we lost 600 or more a day.

[Udon'tKnowMe]

A war with China would equal a trip back to the Stone Age for China, if we fought tomorrow. Our weapons sysyems are the most advanced and China would be bringing a knife to a tank fight. Yes they have over a billion people but 1/3 of those people live off less than 2 dollars a day, so I don't think they would be the ideal soldiers. Plus, wars are fought different now. The days of standing side by side waiting for the other side to shoot you are over. Nowadays, we send over a couple F-22's and they drop smart bombs and the Chinese would have never even seen them on the radar.

[Beetle01]

A war with China would equal a trip back to the Stone Age for China, if we fought tomorrow. Our weapons sysyems are the most advanced and China would be bringing a knife to a tank fight. Yes they have over a billion people but 1/3 of those people live off less than 2 dollars a day, so I don't think they would be the ideal soldiers. Plus, wars are fought different now. The days of standing side by side waiting for the other side to shoot you are over. Nowadays, we send over a couple F-22's and they drop smart bombs and the Chinese would have never even seen them on the radar.

SO is it true that ignorance is bliss?
With the euro's now selling their technology to China, it is expected they will be on a level playing field with us, or even ahead of us in the next 5-10 years. Thats not counting the fact that Obama plans to gut the military, maybe making it sooner.

[Udon'tKnowMe]

SO is it true that ignorance is bliss?
With the euro's now selling their technology to China, it is expected they will be on a level playing field with us, or even ahead of us in the next 5-10 years. Thats not counting the fact that Obama plans to gut the military, maybe making it sooner.

Haha no, ignorance is not bliss. I personally believe that I will never live long enough to see a country pass the U.S. in military technology. Plus, most of those countries selling to them are members of NATO, and if any country declares war on the US, it delcares war on NATO.

[Beetle01]

Haha no, ignorance is not bliss. I personally believe that I will never live long enough to see a country pass the U.S. in military technology. Plus, most of those countries selling to them are members of NATO, and if any country declares war on the US, it delcares war on NATO.

So you know 100% those countries would bakc us militarily. Wow must be nice to have that kind of faith in europeans. I sure don't.

Facism is on the rise and will soon be the largest political party in Germany. I'm not saying they are going to relive the Hitler days, but they went there once, what says they wouldn't again? They don't even like discussing the fact that the people of that nation tried to rule the world, and killed millions for no reason other than hate and power.

If Russia steps in and says it will cut oil off to the Europeans, you will watch them tell us they can't do anything, except Britain, I think they would have our backs.