[jetpilot]

Only if you believe in the Bible. If not, they are just another country in the middle east. Why should my tax dollars support them if I'm not a bible person?

Why should my tax dollars support a zillion entitlements, unions and bloated public sector salaries, benefits and pensions when I'm not a slacker or crook or want something for nothing? I'll gladly trade out with you.:eyeroll:

[TheRealVille]

Why should my tax dollars support a zillion entitlements, unions and bloated public sector salaries, benefits and pensions when I'm not a slacker or crook or want something for nothing? I'll gladly trade out with you.:eyeroll:

I don't want any thing for nothing. I work my *** off for my money. I also invest wisely. I made 33k in interest last year off of no ones dime. My union doesn't cost you one dime extra either. No one pays my way.

[TheRealVille]

Crickets.

[Deathstar 80]

Only if you believe in the Bible. If not, they are just another country in the middle east. Why should my tax dollars support them if I'm not a bible person?

Keep in mind that they're still one of our greatest allies... At least, they used to be. We've been treating Israel very badly in the past few years. And because we've been treating them badly and the result of the revolution in Egypt, I'd say that Israel feels very alone in the Middle East. Hopefully, the new Egypt will remain peaceful with Israel as it has in the recent past, but I highly doubt that it will be.

[TheRealThing]

Only if you believe in the Bible. If not, they are just another country in the middle east. Why should my tax dollars support them if I'm not a bible person?

You make a very good point. Based on your opinion I can understand why you wouldn't want any of your tax dollars supporting just another country in the middle east.

I would venture an alternate view about what one believes. Either all of creation (the universe) is here by chance or it, and all life in it, is created by God. I submit that one of those two senarios are the only two possible avenues of existence. On the one hand we have chance, on the other, creation. At any rate, one of those two possibilities is the truth and whether one believes the truth or not is completely dependent on his choice. We come into this world with nothing except the right and the priviledge of choice. Our life is defined by those choices. Some choose to live in boxes and drink Thunderbird, while others choose to work everyday and make something of themselves. In any case when we leave this world we take nothing with us.

So since our choices define us I choose to believe we are God's handiwork. Further, I choose to live forever wilth Him thanks to His Son's perfect sacrifice one day on a cross in Israel when He laid down His life for all men so that they would be able to make that same choice.

I respect any man who goes out into this world, makes good decisions, supports his family, and is a good example as you obviously are. Good folks make America great.

[vundy33]

Well, my opinion is that I could care less if Jews are God's chosen people. Really. I don't even really care if they're an ally, it only hurts us in the eyes of most middle eastern countries, and they'll never help us in a conflict in any Muslim country.

That said, War and defense isn't the only benefit of having allies. I'm not to educated on the other benefits of our friendship with Israel, that's why I won't speak on them.

I think that Israel has the right and should defend their people with the force necessary. They're blockade on Gaza might be illegal, but our blockade on the Soviets coming into Cuba during the Cuban Missile Crisis was also illegal, even though it was called a "quarantine", and that was legal. We were essentially protecting our citizens, I don't see a problem in Israel doing the same, especially when they're on their own over there.

One thing I'd hate to see is Israel become an enemy.

If any of you can be un-biased and would like to give us some pro's and con's concerning the U.S. friendship with Israel, and maybe some numbers on their problems with Gaza, then be my guest. I'd really like to know more instead of relying on a wall of text and possible non-fact on Wikipedia and biased articles on news sites.

[Deathstar 80]

Well, my opinion is that I could care less if Jews are God's chosen people. Really. I don't even really care if they're an ally, it only hurts us in the eyes of most middle eastern countries, and they'll never help us in a conflict in any Muslim country.

That said, War and defense isn't the only benefit of having allies. I'm not to educated on the other benefits of our friendship with Israel, that's why I won't speak on them.

I think that Israel has the right and should defend their people with the force necessary. They're blockade on Gaza might be illegal, but our blockade on the Soviets coming into Cuba during the Cuban Missile Crisis was also illegal, even though it was called a "quarantine", and that was legal. We were essentially protecting our citizens, I don't see a problem in Israel doing the same, especially when they're on their own over there.

One thing I'd hate to see is Israel become an enemy.

If any of you can be un-biased and would like to give us some pro's and con's concerning the U.S. friendship with Israel, and maybe some numbers on their problems with Gaza, then be my guest. I'd really like to know more instead of relying on a wall of text and possible non-fact on Wikipedia and biased articles on news sites.

From what I've heard, the Islamists in the Middle East became upset with us when we helped Israel to become a nation. They became even more aggravated when they started wars with Israel and, as a result, Israel took land from the Palestinians. To my understanding, Israel gave some of that land back.

Israel wouldn't help us against other Middle Eastern countries simply because they have to protect themselves. They're surrounded by people who want to destroy them. Something that I've realized in the past few months is that Israel is one of the few countries in that if they lost a war, they would literally lose an entire religious group of people. In other words, Israel's enemies would want to commit genocide of the Jewish people. And if you don't believe me, simply look at Iran.

What I've stated above is why some people are concerned for Israel right now. Jordan and Egypt used to have peace treaties with Israel, but if you've noticed, the Egyptian government is being changed while the Jordan government is facing the threat of being overturned. Both of these changes in government will cause Israel to be in great trouble. They'll literally be surrounded by enemies. And to make it worse, our relations with Israel are much worse. We've been insulting Israel for a few months now. Therefore, Israel probably feels concerned about what's happening. And to make things even worse, there's the possible second flotilla that's being sent to Israel (as I said in my post above) as Glenn Beck mentioned on his show. I honestly think Israel's enemies are trying to make Israel look bad.

[jetpilot]

I don't want any thing for nothing. I work my *** off for my money. I also invest wisely. I made 33k in interest last year off of no ones dime. My union doesn't cost you one dime extra either. No one pays my way.

My point seems to have gone over your head. I wasn't singling you out as where my tax dollars go. Just pointing out that my tax dollars go to a zillion different causes I don't give a crap about. So you whining about Israel makes no sense. Join the club, everyone's tax dollars are wasted.

And yes, unions do cost the taxpayers a ton of money.

[TheRealVille]

My point seems to have gone over your head. I wasn't singling you out as where my tax dollars go. Just pointing out that my tax dollars go to a zillion different causes I don't give a crap about. So you whining about Israel makes no sense. Join the club, everyone's tax dollars are wasted.

And yes, unions do cost the taxpayers a ton of money.

Care to explain how mine does? I'm not in a public union.

[TheRealVille]

My point seems to have gone over your head. I wasn't singling you out as where my tax dollars go. Just pointing out that my tax dollars go to a zillion different causes I don't give a crap about. So you whining about Israel makes no sense. Join the club, everyone's tax dollars are wasted.

And yes, unions do cost the taxpayers a ton of money.

You're a coal man if I remember correctly? Are you saying coal doesn't cost taxpayers money?

[jetpilot]

You're a coal man if I remember correctly? Are you saying coal doesn't cost taxpayers money?

Only when they pay their electric bill.

[TheRealVille]

Only when they pay their electric bill.

:lmao:
This is just 6 of the top 10 google sites about coal costing taxpayers.
http://www.miningcoal.com.au/news/cobbor...-6-billion
http://www.statejournal.com/story.cfm?fu...llion.aspx
http://understory.ran.org/2010/06/22/coa...-millions/
http://www.wvpolicy.org/downloads/news_r...062310.pdf
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1991-...atural-gas
http://blog.nwf.org/wildlifepromise/2010...-tax-bill/


You still didn't explain how my private union costs taxpayers money.

[TheRealVille]

double post.

[Deathstar 80]

Care to explain how mine does? I'm not in a public union.

I think you might've misunderstood jetpilot. I don't think jetpilot was referring to your union. Jetpilot was just saying that public unions cost the government a lot of money and, to my understanding, he prefers that the government wouldn't spend as much money on public unions. Again, I don't think he was talking about your union or anything like that.

[jetpilot]

:lmao:
This is just 6 of the top 10 google sites about coal costing taxpayers.
http://www.miningcoal.com.au/news/cobbor...-6-billion
http://www.statejournal.com/story.cfm?fu...llion.aspx
http://understory.ran.org/2010/06/22/coa...-millions/
http://www.wvpolicy.org/downloads/news_r...062310.pdf
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1991-...atural-gas
http://blog.nwf.org/wildlifepromise/2010...-tax-bill/


You still didn't explain how my private union costs taxpayers money.

Man you are dense.
The first link addresses some deal in South Wales. You must not have heard that isn't around here.
2nd link can't be accessed.
3rd link talks about coal in TENNESSEE.
Then I quit and wanted that 2 minutes of my life you wasted back.

Not going to explain any more about unions to you for the 5th time...

You are a complete waste of time RV and no way you made $33 in interest, much less the $33K you claim...

[jetpilot]

I think you might've misunderstood jetpilot. I don't think jetpilot was referring to your union. Jetpilot was just saying that public unions cost the government a lot of money and, to my understanding, he prefers that the government wouldn't spend as much money on public unions. Again, I don't think he was talking about your union or anything like that.

Thanks Deathstar you are exactly right. But RV will never get it...:HitWall:

[TheRealVille]

Man you are dense.
The first link addresses some deal in South Wales. You must not have heard that isn't around here.
2nd link can't be accessed.
3rd link talks about coal in TENNESSEE.
Then I quit and wanted that 2 minutes of my life you wasted back.

Not going to explain any more about unions to you for the 5th time...

You are a complete waste of time RV and no way you made $33 in interest, much less the $33K you claim...

I didn't check the links, I just pasted the top 6 from google. You are crazy if you don't think coal cost taxpayers money. It doesn't matter what country it is talking about or which state, it cost taxpayers. Kentucky isn't the only coal state. I'm not against clean coal, but I'm not blind to it's cost.



I'll guarantee I did. You might not want to call it interest, it's money made from investments through my financial advisor.

[TheRealVille]

Since you only take KY links

« “Coal Devastating Region” says US Senate Hearing on Mountaintop RemovalJames Hansen, Daryl Hannah and Ken Hechler Arrested Opposing Mountaintop Removal »
New Report: Kentucky Government Loses Money on Coal
Jun 29th, 2009 by admin
Learn more at http://www.maced.org
From KFTC:
The Mountain Association for Community Economic Development released a report today showing that in 2006 the coal industry cost state taxpayers $115 million more than it contributed.

At a time when Kentucky must have a special Legislative session to address a $996 million budget shortfall, the Mountain Association for Community Economic Development (MACED) today released a report, The Impact of Coal on the Kentucky State Budget, showing that in 2006 the state budget had a net impact loss of $115 million from the coal industry operating in Kentucky.

oal hasn’t been paying their fair share, so who’s picking up the tab? It’s us, the taxpayers. It’s costing us more than just what we pay out in electric bills.

Suzanne Tallichet, KFTC member from Rowan County

http://www.theallianceforappalachia.org/...y-on-coal/

The Mountain Association for Community Economic Development in Berea just released a report showing that hosting the coal industry costs Kentucky taxpayers nearly $115 million per year. In other words, the industry is a money sink for the state. As alarming as this is, there are many more — and worse — public costs associated with coal.


Read more: http://www.kentucky.com/2009/07/13/86106...z1J7Kx21QH

One from WV

A new report concludes West Virginia’s coal industry takes more from state government coffers than it puts in through taxes and fees.
The economic analysis released June 22 by Downstream Strategies of Morgantown and the West Virginia Center on Budget and Policy found the coal industry resulted in an economic loss of $97.5 million for the state in 2009, when one weighed the benefits of the industry against its costs on infrastructure and other government services.

But beyond the immediate costs, authors also found the coal industry will leave potentially billions of dollars in “legacy costs” for taxpayers to cover, particularly when it comes to reclaiming abandoned mining sites and fixing roads and bridges damaged by coal trucks.

http://www.statejournal.com/story.cfm?fu...ryid=81888

Like I said, I am not against coal, but it does cost taxpayers money. I have friends that are in the coal business, and I know we need coal right now.

[Hoot Gibson]

It is impossible to overstate what unions cost taxpayers in this country. Obviously, public sector unions, which account for the majority of union members in this country, represent an enormous direct cost to every level of government with their salaries, benefits, and pension plans that far exceed those of average workers toiling in the private sector.

Costs that are not so obvious include:

1. Prevailing wage laws that are intended to bar private sector, nonunion companies from getting government contracts by virtue of their lower labor costs. These laws attempt to make it easier for unionized companies to get government work and gouge taxpayers.

2. The success that union bosses have had in blocking real immigration reform that would secure our borders and reduce the number of illegal immigrants collecting American welfare benefits. This one is inexplicable. How do union leaders get away with backing liberal Democrats while insisting that the borders remain open to illegal aliens willing to work for wages far below what their own union members demand? Yet they do. Democrats have union bosses in their pockets and vice-versa.

3. The cost of electing the Barack Obamas, Nancy Pelosis, and Harry Reids of this world to govern this country. Union dues are largely responsible for the Democratic majorities in Congress and the election of our inexperienced, incompetent, socialist president. How much blame do unions bear for tripling our annual budget deficit the past three years?

4. The biggest cost to American taxpayers may be the degradation of our public school system because of the influence of the NEA leaders.

I distinguish between union leaders and union members because I truly believe that for the most part, union bosses' affect on government policies does not reflect the will of the majority of union members. I don't believe that most union members are in favor of competing with Mexican workers who are here illegally or that most public school teachers place political considerations above concern for their students' welfare.

[TheRealVille]

Well, my opinion is that I could care less if Jews are God's chosen people. Really. I don't even really care if they're an ally, it only hurts us in the eyes of most middle eastern countries, and they'll never help us in a conflict in any Muslim country.

That said, War and defense isn't the only benefit of having allies. I'm not to educated on the other benefits of our friendship with Israel, that's why I won't speak on them.

I think that Israel has the right and should defend their people with the force necessary. They're blockade on Gaza might be illegal, but our blockade on the Soviets coming into Cuba during the Cuban Missile Crisis was also illegal, even though it was called a "quarantine", and that was legal. We were essentially protecting our citizens, I don't see a problem in Israel doing the same, especially when they're on their own over there.

One thing I'd hate to see is Israel become an enemy.

If any of you can be un-biased and would like to give us some pro's and con's concerning the U.S. friendship with Israel, and maybe some numbers on their problems with Gaza, then be my guest. I'd really like to know more instead of relying on a wall of text and possible non-fact on Wikipedia and biased articles on news sites.

:Thumbs:

[jetpilot]

Since you only take KY links



http://www.theallianceforappalachia.org/...y-on-coal/



One from WV

http://www.statejournal.com/story.cfm?fu...ryid=81888

Like I said, I am not against coal, but it does cost taxpayers money. I have friends that are in the coal business, and I know we need coal right now.

Just because government spent more than they took in does not mean they lost money on coal. IT MEANS GOVERNMENT OVERSPENT.
Look at how much money they spent to study coal's impact and to regulate coal. What that really means is government has created another very costly, bloated bureaucracy with way too many bloated salaries, benefits, pensions and other government waste just to regulate the coal industry. Yet another case of government needing to be much smaller.
That study doesn't even bother to put a number on the positive economic impact of the coal industry. By your logic the government lost money on EVERY SINGLE INDUSTRY THERE IS, since governments are now spending trillions more dollars that they collect.

[Deathstar 80]

I wanted to tell you guys that there might be a second flotilla sent to Israel. Glenn Beck has been talking about a possible second flotilla sent this May. I'm afraid that there are people who are trying to make Israel look bad. And I know that there are people suffering in the Gaza strip, but I'm pretty sure that there are people who want to exploit that problem to make Israel look bad. Right now, Israel is pretty much alone in the Middle East, especially after the revolution in Egypt and after our country has been continuously arguing with Israel.

^I just wanted to update everyone that according to Glenn Beck, they've moved the date for the second flotilla to sometime in June (or July) I think. If I can remember correctly, I think he said it was going to happen June 20 or 30.

[Deathstar 80]

^I just wanted to update everyone that according to Glenn Beck, they've moved the date for the second flotilla to sometime in June (or July) I think. If I can remember correctly, I think he said it was going to happen June 20 or 30.

^I would like to remind everyone of my last few posts. If I can remember correctly, I think Glenn Beck said that a second flotilla is being sent June 30 (this Thursday). If this does happen, please understand that this isn't Israel's fault. Israel is being set up to look like the bad guy of the world.

[Deathstar 80]

I think I found out why the second group of flotilla ships weren't sent to Israel yet. It seems that one of the boats needed repairs. It looks like some are accusing Israel of sabotage.

Here's a link I found: http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/seco...story.html

You should be able to find other stories about this on the internet if you want to search for any. Hopefully, they won't be able to send a second group of flotilla ships.

[Deathstar 80]

I wanted to update everyone about this. It looks like the second Freedom Flotilla to Gaza already took place, but it wasn't much. They were going to send ships into Gaza, but after multiple circumstances, only one ship went. Israelis boarded the ship, arrested the crew, and told them that they had to leave the country. There wasn't any violence. When searched, the ship had no weapons or humanitarian aid.

Here's a link to what wikipedia.org says: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_Flotilla_II