[notamoocher]

Below are karl Marx's ten points for his ideal of communism.

1. Abolition of property in land and confiscation of ground rents to the state.
OK The government doesn't really own a persons land, but try to do anything without the proper permit or approval. And don't pay your taxes and see who owns your land.

2. A heavily progressive income tax.
If nothing changes the tax rate for top income earners will be at 44.5 % after Jan. 1st 2011( federal Only) after adding state and local most of these people will be paying from 50 to 65 % in taxes. now that's progressive.

3. Abolition of interitance.
Again after Jan. 1st 2011 this death tax will go from 0 % to as high as 55%.

4. Confiscation of property of emigrants and rebels.
I got nothing here.

5. Centralisation of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.
Not a monopoly yet. But Fannie mae, Freddie mac and the new bank bill in congress sure are heading that way.

6. Centralisation of the means of transport in the hands of the state.
E.P.A., Mileage standards, T.S.A., D.O.T. You get the ideal.

7. Extension of national factories and instruments of production....
General Motors.

8. Obligation of all labour; organisation of industrial armies......
Don't know about the industrial part, But government jobs have expanded at a rate never seen before.

9. Combination of agricultion and industrial labour.
Again, I got nothing here.

10.Free public education for all children.
By providing it government also controls it. No Child Left Behind( Bushs worst action) race to the top, simply more control. Almost $70 billion budget for the Department of education which operates no schools. Taking over student loans.

[notamoocher]

When i refered to Marx before, you said that Marx would change a baby's dirty diaper, so anyone who changed a diaper is a socialist. Well here is his ten points. I have commented on most you are welcomed to do the same.

[thecavemaster]

When Farmer's Markets come under government control and attack, I'll consider the points again. Is it the general stated and unstated goal of elected officials in the majority to carry the United States of America into a socialist country in the spirit of the Soviet Union or Cuba? No, it is not. Are there aspects of policy that seem to work better under socialization? A fair minded analysis would, it seems to me, have to say "yes." Are there many aspects of policy that do not work well under socialization? Again, a fair minded, informed person would have to say "yes." To adopt a good idea is not socialist or capitalist. It is wise.

[Hoot Gibson]

Yes, we are moving in the far left direction faster than ever before. What I fear most is that 0bama will move the country further down the road to socialism than Republicans will be able to offset when 0bama is unseated in 2012. They have a history of running as conservatives and then allowing liberals to form coalitions with the RINOS to block any rollback of socialist programs. We are on the slippery slope and RINOS like Lindsey Graham and Juan McCain are helping socialists lubricate the uphill side of the slope.

[Old School]

As the 2010 elections near, I'm becoming more fearful of what the democrats may try to push through during their last days in office. If they lose the majority in both the House and Senate, I would not be surprised to see several far left bills being pushed through.

[thecavemaster]

As the 2010 elections near, I'm becoming more fearful of what the democrats may try to push through during their last days in office. If they lose the majority in both the House and Senate, I would not be surprised to see several far left bills being pushed through.

Reform the financial services sector? Try to ensure that as many Americans as possible are covered by health insurance? Attempt to begin the "dwindle down" on our utter dependence on fossil fuels, foreign oil? To oppose particular ways of doing these things, I might could understand. To say "far left" and paint as socialism and fear for the country's survival? Old School? Nay, Old Fool...

[notamoocher]

When Farmer's Markets come under government control and attack, I'll consider the points again. Is it the general stated and unstated goal of elected officials in the majority to carry the United States of America into a socialist country in the spirit of the Soviet Union or Cuba? No, it is not. Are there aspects of policy that seem to work better under socialization? A fair minded analysis would, it seems to me, have to say "yes." Are there many aspects of policy that do not work well under socialization? Again, a fair minded, informed person would have to say "yes." To adopt a good idea is not socialist or capitalist. It is wise.

Again you will not address the question asked, I asked for your comments on the ten points. You did not make any comments. So i guess that only you are fair minded and informed. I know of no program which works better under socialism. Europe is broke and we are heading that way. If you are not concerned about the future of this country fine. I on the other hand worry about my kids and grandkids more than I have worried before, Does this mean that everything is going to fall apart tonight NO. But what about 50 years from now? This government is spending way more than it takes in. How long can this continiue?

[notamoocher]

reform the financial services sector? Try to ensure that as many americans as possible are covered by health insurance? Attempt to begin the "dwindle down" on our utter dependence on fossil fuels, foreign oil? To oppose particular ways of doing these things, i might could understand. To say "far left" and paint as socialism and fear for the country's survival? Old school? Nay, old fool...

financial reform with no mention of fanny may or freddie mac.

[Old School]

Reform the financial services sector? Try to ensure that as many Americans as possible are covered by health insurance? Attempt to begin the "dwindle down" on our utter dependence on fossil fuels, foreign oil? To oppose particular ways of doing these things, I might could understand. To say "far left" and paint as socialism and fear for the country's survival? Old School? Nay, Old Fool...

What do we really know about the newly reformed financial bill? Once again they passed a bill that was over 2,000 pages and no one read it. Is this another Pelosi bill where they have to pass it before we know what's in it?

Do you condone the practice of passing bills that have not been read by the congress?

I could understand when some were fooled by the "chosen ones" campaign promises, but after 18 months in office it is plain for everyone to see their agenda. Cavemaster? hardly, more like Cavedunce....

[thecavemaster]

What do we really know about the newly reformed financial bill? Once again they passed a bill that was over 2,000 pages and no one read it. Is this another Pelosi bill where they have to pass it before we know what's in it?

Do you condone the practice of passing bills that have not been read by the congress?

I could understand when some were fooled by the "chosen ones" campaign promises, but after 18 months in office it is plain for everyone to see their agenda. Cavemaster? hardly, more like Cavedunce....

I know enough to know it's better than what was in place before it.
I know enough to not make statements like "no one read it" when I don't know.
I know enough not to pejoratively label an elected President "chosen one" because I don't like uppity black people.
I know enough to know the agenda isn't socialist.

[notamoocher]

I know enough to know it's better than what was in place before it.
I know enough to not make statements like "no one read it" when I don't know.
I know enough not to pejoratively label an elected President "chosen one" because I don't like uppity black people.
I know enough to know the agenda isn't socialist.

One question does the government ownership of General Motors bother you in any way?

PS WHY THE RACE DEAL? IS THAT ALL YOU GOT? I DON'T LIKE CHRIS DODD'S POLICIES AND HE'S WHITE.

[Old School]

I know enough to know it's better than what was in place before it.
I know enough to not make statements like "no one read it" when I don't know.
I know enough not to pejoratively label an elected President "chosen one" because I don't like uppity black people.
I know enough to know the agenda isn't socialist.

How? because some left wing media type told you so, or because a democratic administration pushed the bill through?

So you can't say they read it either?

"uppity black people" Grasping at straws here aren't we CM, just another typical left wing response whenever you don't have a answer, resort to the race card.

"Not a socialist" What would Barry "the socialist" have to do to convience you that he is a socialist?

[Hoot Gibson]

How? because some left wing media type told you so, or because a democratic administration pushed the bill through?

So you can't say they read it either?

"uppity black people" Grasping at straws here aren't we CM, just another typical left wing response whenever you don't have a answer, resort to the race card.

"Not a socialist" What would Barry "the socialist" have to do to convience you that he is a socialist?

0bama has seized the "means of production" of GM, Chrysler and several financial firms, fired the CEO of GM, taken control of our health care system, and hired numerous avowed socialists and communists into key positions within his administration. I suspect that a signed confession would not convince CM that 0bama is a socialist.

[thecavemaster]

How? because some left wing media type told you so, or because a democratic administration pushed the bill through?

So you can't say they read it either?

"uppity black people" Grasping at straws here aren't we CM, just another typical left wing response whenever you don't have a answer, resort to the race card.

"Not a socialist" What would Barry "the socialist" have to do to convience you that he is a socialist?

If Hillary Clinton had been elected President, would the Tea Party movement be where it is? My guess is that, while the Congressmen/women themsevles may not have read it all, they have staffers who read it and report back. However, you are the one pushing the point...you have the burden of proof, not me. I believe in the role of a strong, centralized federal government...that makes me a federalist, not a socialist. Barack Obama does not believe in the nationalization of corporate resources in order to form a socialist state...that's bunk, able to be argued because of responses to an economy, vital industries, in freefall...like suggesting an old man, hugging a drowning young girl close to him as he swims her back to shore, is a pedophile for having his body up against hers....impartial hack work based on half-baked observations.

[Hoot Gibson]

If Hillary Clinton had been elected President, would the Tea Party movement be where it is? My guess is that, while the Congressmen/women themsevles may not have read it all, they have staffers who read it and report back. However, you are the one pushing the point...you have the burden of proof, not me. I believe in the role of a strong, centralized federal government...that makes me a federalist, not a socialist. Barack Obama does not believe in the nationalization of corporate resources in order to form a socialist state...that's bunk, able to be argued because of responses to an economy, vital industries, in freefall...like suggesting an old man, hugging a drowning young girl close to him as he swims her back to shore, is a pedophile for having his body up against hers....impartial hack work based on half-baked observations.

Hillary Clinton would have been far more of a pragmatic president than 0bama - so, no the opposition to her policies would not have grown so strong, so quickly, as they have in opposition to 0bama's brand of socialism.

[thecavemaster]

Hillary Clinton would have been far more of a pragmatic president than 0bama - so, no the opposition to her policies would not have grown so strong, so quickly, as they have in opposition to 0bama's brand of socialism.

Pragmatic? As in status quo? As in don't worry about the healthcare system? As in let GM fail and the financial sector crash into ruin? As in don't worry about carbon footprints and continuing reliance upon foreign sources of energy? Obama is not a socialist, thus he has no "brand." He is a fair scales capitalist.

[Hoot Gibson]

Pragmatic? As in status quo? As in don't worry about the healthcare system? As in let GM fail and the financial sector crash into ruin? As in don't worry about carbon footprints and continuing reliance upon foreign sources of energy? Obama is not a socialist, thus he has no "brand." He is a fair scales capitalist.

Pragmatic
as in not signing a long series of bills into law that the majority of Americans oppose while ignoring issues about which Americans care most. Pragmatic as in not twisting the arms and bribing members of his own party into passing unpopular bills with no regard to the political viability of those members as candidates for reelection. Pragmatic as in not tripling the annual budget deficit while pursuing an unpopular agenda. Pragmatic as in not hiring extreme left wing politicians almost exclusively to fill key spots in her administration.

In short, Hillary Clinton would have been pragmatic enough to have learned from her own health care fiasco not to have made a series of similar political blunders.

Obama is a socialist and he is a racist. After garnering the most support among white voters by a Democratic presidential candidate in many years, his administration has been the most racially biased in many years. If he wants to have any chance of being reelected, he needs to begin replacing racists and socialists like Eric Holder sooner rather than later. That would be the pragmatic thing to do at this point but finding moderates willing to work in what appears to be a lame duck, socialist administration will not be easy at this point.

[thecavemaster]

Pragmatic
as in not signing a long series of bills into law that the majority of Americans oppose while ignoring issues about which Americans care most. Pragmatic as in not twisting the arms and bribing members of his own party into passing unpopular bills with no regard to the political viability of those members as candidates for reelection. Pragmatic as in not tripling the annual budget deficit while pursuing an unpopular agenda. Pragmatic as in not hiring extreme left wing politicians almost exclusively to fill key spots in her administration.

In short, Hillary Clinton would have been pragmatic enough to have learned from her own health care fiasco not to have made a series of similar political blunders.

Obama is a socialist and he is a racist. After garnering the most support among white voters by a Democratic presidential candidate in many years, his administration has been the most racially biased in many years. If he wants to have any chance of being reelected, he needs to begin replacing racists and socialists like Eric Holder sooner rather than later. That would be the pragmatic thing to do at this point but finding moderates willing to work in what appears to be a lame duck, socialist administration will not be easy at this point.

Obama is a socialist and a racist? That's rich, Hoot, even for you...that's rich. Accept the wager, Hoot... let's not wait. Put your wallet where your keyboard is...we don't have to eat together... that's what credit cards and gift certificates are for... your favorite restaurant in your locale, same here. What say you? Because contrary to what some apparent goofs suggest, Obama will run in 2012... against? Jeb Bush? Mike Huckabee? the Stormin' Mormon?