[Stardust]

http://www.aolnews.com/the-grid/article/...s/19506021

LOS ANGELES (June 8) -- Five years ago Sam Greengard, born and raised here amid the sprawl of the nation's second-largest metropolitan area, decided to join a counterwave to the flow of new arrivals in a city increasingly defined by immigration.

He moved out.

"I have never regretted it a single day," said Greengard, a freelance writer who moved his family to West Linn, a suburb of Portland, Ore. "The quality of life, for me, it just wasn't there, You couldn't go anywhere without hitting traffic. Everything was crowded. People were edgy and cranky. I just didn't want to be in that kind of environment."

Greengard has plenty of company. A new report by the California Department of Finance says that even as the state's total population increased slightly, the number of white Californians -- like Greengard -- dropped in 2008, continuing a trend that could soon make Hispanics the largest ethnic population group in the state.

The report found that California had a net loss of 105,000 white residents in 2008 through a combination of more deaths than births, and more people leaving the state than moving in. Since 2000, the white population has declined by 518,000, a trend that peaked in the prerecession years of 2006-2007, when real estate prices also peaked and drove working and middle-class families elsewhere in search of homes, said Mary Heim, chief of the finance department's Demographic Research Unit.

But with the recession, migration in general has slowed considerably in the past two years. "Right now, since the bad economy everywhere, people just can't afford to move," Heim said.

According to the report, which includes estimates regardless of legal status, whites accounted for just under 41 percent of California's overall population in 2008, down from 47 percent in 2000. Hispanics accounted for just over 37 percent, up from 33 percent in 2000. Asians grew from 11 percent to 12.4 percent, while African-Americans slipped slightly from 6.5 percent to 5.9 percent, though in total numbers that population increased slightly.

[TheRealVille]

White population dwindling, as Calif. grows, is the actual headline. I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish with leaving that part of the headline off. Maybe making it look like it is nationwide, I dunno?

[NEXT]

White population dwindling, as Calif. grows, is the actual headline. I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish with leaving that part of the headline off. Maybe making it look like it is nationwide, I dunno?

Correct.


Grows with illegal immigrants and cannot pay for itself, while having the 8th LARGEST ECONOMY IN THE WORLD.


Democrats utopia..............

[Hoot Gibson]

Correct.


Grows with illegal immigrants and cannot pay for itself, while having the 8th LARGEST ECONOMY IN THE WORLD.


Democrats utopia..............

:Thumbs: Diversity is great when is attributable to legal immigrants and their progeny who have become full-fledged, legal, non-hyphenated Americans. Those who want to create their own conclaves of illegals to avoid the need to assimilate must be sent packing for their trips home.

[Old School]

White population dwindling, as Calif. grows, is the actual headline. I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish with leaving that part of the headline off. Maybe making it look like it is nationwide, I dunno?

A link was provided to the article, so what difference does the headline make? :eyeroll:

[Hoot Gibson]

White population dwindling, as Calif. grows, is the actual headline. I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish with leaving that part of the headline off. Maybe making it look like it is nationwide, I dunno?

Percentage-wise, it is nationwide but that is a story for another anti-illegal immigration thread. Republicans and Democrats deserve equal blame for slowly but surely destroying the once great state of California by their failure to stem the tide of illegal immigrants.

[Stardust]

White population dwindling, as Calif. grows, is the actual headline. I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish with leaving that part of the headline off. Maybe making it look like it is nationwide, I dunno?

Creative Journalism. Meant for you to take it anyway you wish and post anything you dare. :popcorn:

[thecavemaster]

The immigration process must be reformed, streamlined, not remain a marathon of endurance for already loaded down people. A just system, justly enforced, would have my full support. Also, let us say that through legal immigration, white people become a minority in America. Other than a certain xenophobic bent that has always plagued the populace, why is that such a tragedy?

[TheRealVille]

The immigration process must be reformed, streamlined, not remain a marathon of endurance for already loaded down people. A just system, justly enforced, would have my full support. Also, let us say that through legal immigration, white people become a minority in America. Other than a certain xenophobic bent that has always plagued the populace, why is that such a tragedy?

+1

[Hoot Gibson]

The immigration process must be reformed, streamlined, not remain a marathon of endurance for already loaded down people. A just system, justly enforced, would have my full support. Also, let us say that through legal immigration, white people become a minority in America. Other than a certain xenophobic bent that has always plagued the populace, why is that such a tragedy?

:Thumbs: It would not be a tragedy at all. My current project team includes five developers. Two from India, one from China, and two southern boys, including yours truly. Our country needs to be welcoming talented legal immigrants to this country, regardless of their place of origin. We also need to develop a system that will discourage the willfully ignorant and the criminal element from coming here. We have enough people of our own to fill those slots.

[Old School]

:Thumbs: It would not be a tragedy at all. My current project team includes five developers. Two from India, one from China, and two southern boys, including yours truly. Our country needs to be welcoming talented legal immigrants to this country, regardless of their place of origin. We also need to develop a system that will discourage the willfully ignorant and the criminal element from coming here. We have enough people of our own to fill those slots.

The key word here is legal there is huge difference between legal and illegal. I welcome anyone who goes through the process and becomes a legal immigrant.

[Hoot Gibson]

The key word here is legal there is huge difference between legal and illegal. I welcome anyone who goes through the process and becomes a legal immigrant.

I meant to write legal in bold letters myself.

I would even support a voluntary exchange program where liberal Democrats would give up their citizenship and move south of the Rio Grande to allow a Mexican to take their place here - provided the liberals could not return without finding a Mexican willing to return to his or her native homeland.

Maybe we could start with an Obama for Calderon swap. President Calderon seems to know how to avoid illegal immigration issues on his side of the border and could he do any more damage in the White House than Obama?

[TheRealVille]

I meant to write legal in bold letters myself.

I would even support a voluntary exchange program where liberal Democrats would give up their citizenship and move south of the Rio Grande to allow a Mexican to take their place here - provided the liberals could not return without finding a Mexican willing to return to his or her native homeland.

Maybe we could start with an Obama for Calderon swap. President Calderon seems to know how to avoid illegal immigration issues on his side of the border and could he do any more damage in the White House than Obama?

Funny thing is, I have always thought the same about Republicans, especially since you republicans are for working for lower wages(against minimum wage). You would fit in nicely, south of the border.

[Hoot Gibson]

Funny thing is, I have always thought the same about Republicans, especially since you republicans are for working for lower wages(against minimum wage). You would fit in nicely, south of the border.

You are confused - not an unusual state for you. Free markets create high wages. High unemployment rates, which are the result of large governments such as those required to implement socialist agendas always result in lower wages and higher unemployment rates.

The minimum wage hurts the very people that liberals claim that it is intended to help. Minimum wage laws may be useful election tools for Democrats, but they are no substitute for a thriving economy with a low unemployment rate.

[thecavemaster]

:Thumbs: It would not be a tragedy at all. My current project team includes five developers. Two from India, one from China, and two southern boys, including yours truly. Our country needs to be welcoming talented legal immigrants to this country, regardless of their place of origin. We also need to develop a system that will discourage the willfully ignorant and the criminal element from coming here. We have enough people of our own to fill those slots.

While I agree in the main... not just the pretty, the talented, the wonderful... nay... "give us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to be free." That's on the Statue, my Brother.

[thecavemaster]

You are confused - not an unusual state for you. Free markets create high wages. High unemployment rates, which are the result of large governments such as those required to implement socialist agendas always result in lower wages and higher unemployment rates.

The minimum wage hurts the very people that liberals claim that it is intended to help. Minimum wage laws may be useful election tools for Democrats, but they are no substitute for a thriving economy with a low unemployment rate.

The current minimum wage is not, in fact, a living wage. Dear Hoot: please read Wealth of Nations (assuming you haven't). Then, let us, you and I, engage in a debate, using real world examples, with the purpose of examining your fanatical reliance upon what you deem "free" markets. Won't that be fun?

[Hoot Gibson]

The current minimum wage is not, in fact, a living wage. Dear Hoot: please read Wealth of Nations (assuming you haven't). Then, let us, you and I, engage in a debate, using real world examples, with the purpose of examining your fanatical reliance upon what you deem "free" markets. Won't that be fun?

Reading between the lines, what you seem to be saying is that the federal government should decide what a "living wage" is and require all employers to pay each of their employees an amount equal to or greater than that living wage, regardless of the fair market value of their labor. Is that your position?

[thecavemaster]

Reading between the lines, what you seem to be saying is that the federal government should decide what a "living wage" is and require all employers to pay each of their employees an amount equal to or greater than that living wage, regardless of the fair market value of their labor. Is that your position?

Unless you're an idiot, which is possible, I think I am saying that even an idiot can see that the current minimum wage isn't a living wage, that many minimum wage folks get shafted out of health insurance, and that the current "structure" most often favors the Big, the Bad, the Monied elite. Who should set the minimum wage? My guess is your be all/end all answer is "market forces." We disagree. Human greed, human foible, the very condition of the human heart, as Adam Smith (and Jesus) recognized, render your position reckless, if not irresponsible.

[Hoot Gibson]

Unless you're an idiot, which is possible, I think I am saying that even an idiot can see that the current minimum wage isn't a living wage, that many minimum wage folks get shafted out of health insurance, and that the current "structure" most often favors the Big, the Bad, the Monied elite. Who should set the minimum wage? My guess is your be all/end all answer is "market forces." We disagree. Human greed, human foible, the very condition of the human heart, as Adam Smith (and Jesus) recognized, render your position reckless, if not irresponsible.

I love it when liberals throw around pseudo-capitalistic arguments in favor of the socialist policies that they support. A well established principle of economics is that when a government sets the price of anything artificially high, shortages and black markets result. In the case of the minimum wage, areas with thriving local economies see businesses competing for labor and paying wages well above the legal minimum. In depressed areas, where the market value of unskilled labor is less than the legal minimum, fewer workers are hired, benefits are slashed, and some employer resort to illegally hiring workers "off the books."

Socialism does not work, CM. How many times in how many countries must socialism wreck economies for you liberals to understand that simple history. You want to ignore the evidence and attempt to rename the scourge that is socialism, and that ploy will probably work sometime - people have short memories. However, your timing - with a socialist US president - could not be worse to recycle the discredited economic theories of past generations of socialists.

[thecavemaster]

I love it when liberals throw around pseudo-capitalistic arguments in favor of the socialist policies that they support. A well established principle of economics is that when a government sets the price of anything artificially high, shortages and black markets result. In the case of the minimum wage, areas with thriving local economies see businesses competing for labor and paying wages well above the legal minimum. In depressed areas, where the market value of unskilled labor is less than the legal minimum, fewer workers are hired, benefits are slashed, and some employer resort to illegally hiring workers "off the books."

Socialism does not work, CM. How many times in how many countries must socialism wreck economies for you liberals to understand that simple history. You want to ignore the evidence and attempt to rename the scourge that is socialism, and that ploy will probably work sometime - people have short memories. However, your timing - with a socialist US president - could not be worse to recycle the discredited economic theories of past generations of socialists.

What is recycled, of course, is your mantra of "free markets." Fair scales capitalism is not a new concept, true enough. It used to be practiced quite a bit in the agricultural economy, where "fair scales" were valued. Sweden, my friend, functions quite well. The only "ploy" going on here, Hoot, is your mantra, mantra, mantra about Obama being a socialist. You keep repeating it; I keep refuting it. Barack Obama is a fair scales capitalist, which, apparently, to a free market zealot is the same as socialist... and that's a pity.

[Hoot Gibson]

What is recycled, of course, is your mantra of "free markets." Fair scales capitalism is not a new concept, true enough. It used to be practiced quite a bit in the agricultural economy, where "fair scales" were valued. Sweden, my friend, functions quite well. The only "ploy" going on here, Hoot, is your mantra, mantra, mantra about Obama being a socialist. You keep repeating it; I keep refuting it. Barack Obama is a fair scales capitalist, which, apparently, to a free market zealot is the same as socialist... and that's a pity.

Historically, US unemployment rates have been consistently lower than those of western Europe, including Sweden. That all changed when we elected our first socialist president.

BTW, Sweden's government has slashed socialist programs in recent years because it was getting hammered in the world economy. The same goes for France, Ireland, and several other western European countries. Europe has moved toward capitalism as the Obama regime hastily acts to impose the same system that failed in Europe.

[thecavemaster]

Historically, US unemployment rates have been consistently lower than those of western Europe, including Sweden. That all changed when we elected our first socialist president.

BTW, Sweden's government has slashed socialist programs in recent years because it was getting hammered in the world economy. The same goes for France, Ireland, and several other western European countries. Europe has moved toward capitalism as the Obama regime hastily acts to impose the same system that failed in Europe.

You keep talking about real world events and economic theory as if the two are one and the same. The business cycle has an ebb and flow to it, easily traceable historically. I am no socialist, as you define it. Barack Obama is no socialist, as you define it. We are fighting two wars with no call for sacrifice whatsoever. The move toward free market zealotry, worldwide, is a ding dong of doom for this planet ecologically. Fair scales capitalism, as envisioned by Adam Smith in his better moments, is a far better model than what you advocate.

[Hoot Gibson]

You keep talking about real world events and economic theory as if the two are one and the same. The business cycle has an ebb and flow to it, easily traceable historically. I am no socialist, as you define it. Barack Obama is no socialist, as you define it. We are fighting two wars with no call for sacrifice whatsoever. The move toward free market zealotry, worldwide, is a ding dong of doom for this planet ecologically. Fair scales capitalism, as envisioned by Adam Smith in his better moments, is a far better model than what you advocate.

If the free market is disastrous to the economy, how do you explain the economic disasters in eastern Europe, the Soviet Union, and the People's Republic of China? You are writing but you are making no sense. Maybe in some parallel universe big governments' tight control over a nation's economy is good for the environment but history has proven otherwise in this one. I fear that you have fallen into this reality through a rabbit hole from a world where up was down. :lmao:

[thecavemaster]

If the free market is disastrous to the economy, how do you explain the economic disasters in eastern Europe, the Soviet Union, and the People's Republic of China? You are writing but you are making no sense. Maybe in some parallel universe big governments' tight control over a nation's economy is good for the environment but history has proven otherwise in this one. I fear that you have fallen into this reality through a rabbit hole from a world where up was down. :lmao:

Would you like milk or cereal? Apparently, that is how your mind works. To believe in a free market, with skeptical reservation, is not to disbelieve in free markets. To believe in federalism, with skeptical reservation, is not to disbelieve in democracy. You Flirties, with your either/or minds, try to paint black/white all the time...and this is ridiculous and an insult to the process of debate. Walmart is not "tightly controlled." ...though it could use some oversight. I live each day doing all day long what it is that I wish to do without any interference from the government.

[Hoot Gibson]

Would you like milk or cereal? Apparently, that is how your mind works. To believe in a free market, with skeptical reservation, is not to disbelieve in free markets. To believe in federalism, with skeptical reservation, is not to disbelieve in democracy. You Flirties, with your either/or minds, try to paint black/white all the time...and this is ridiculous and an insult to the process of debate. Walmart is not "tightly controlled." ...though it could use some oversight. I live each day doing all day long what it is that I wish to do without any interference from the government.

Another response devoid of substance. You seem entirely unable to cite real world, tangible and verifiable evidence to support any of your socialist positions. I guess they just "feel" right to you, eh?

[thecavemaster]

Another response devoid of substance. You seem entirely unable to cite real world, tangible and verifiable evidence to support any of your socialist positions. I guess they just "feel" right to you, eh?

As a debater, Hoot, what you're devoid of is integrity. If you would care to remember, I have cited the Ford Pinto, the whole "smoking doesn't cause cancer" issue within the tobacco industry, Walmart (just above), and many other instances which suggest that a zealot's guide to free market belief does not serve the interests of the public. You continually, and persistently, simply ignore that which runs counter to your worldview. It is as if, in your world, you are Rush or Glen or Sean or Bill, in charge of the mike, Fuehrer of the debate, thinking that means you're right. Fascinating.

[Hoot Gibson]

As a debater, Hoot, what you're devoid of is integrity. If you would care to remember, I have cited the Ford Pinto, the whole "smoking doesn't cause cancer" issue within the tobacco industry, Walmart (just above), and many other instances which suggest that a zealot's guide to free market belief does not serve the interests of the public. You continually, and persistently, simply ignore that which runs counter to your worldview. It is as if, in your world, you are Rush or Glen or Sean or Bill, in charge of the mike, Fuehrer of the debate, thinking that means you're right. Fascinating.

Amazing. I believe that I see your problem. You stated your opinion that Wal-Mart should receive more federal oversight and then cited that as an example of where you provided a fact to support your position. Your obvious inability to distinguish between fact and opinion is what places you at such a disadvantage in political debates and it also explains why you are among the 25 percent of Americans who polls show still strongly approve of Obama's job performance. Now that you are aware of your problem, I am sure that you will work to overcome it. :biggrin:

[thecavemaster]

Amazing. I believe that I see your problem. You stated your opinion that Wal-Mart should receive more federal oversight and then cited that as an example of where you provided a fact to support your position. Your obvious inability to distinguish between fact and opinion is what places you at such a disadvantage in political debates and it also explains why you are among the 25 percent of Americans who polls show still strongly approve of Obama's job performance. Now that you are aware of your problem, I am sure that you will work to overcome it. :biggrin:

Walmart's business practices lead to exploitation in Thailand, Hoot. Now, I realize to a free market zealot (who probably is a church deacon) that doesn't matter, but it matters to me. I can distinguish this: you're a hack, plain and simple. The advantage you deem is a mirage, Hoot, as you limp through the desert of your hacksterhood, believing you see a pond of truth, which is actually a pound of sand. Fascinating.

[Hoot Gibson]

Walmart's business practices lead to exploitation in Thailand, Hoot. Now, I realize to a free market zealot (who probably is a church deacon) that doesn't matter, but it matters to me. I can distinguish this: you're a hack, plain and simple. The advantage you deem is a mirage, Hoot, as you limp through the desert of your hacksterhood, believing you see a pond of truth, which is actually a pound of sand. Fascinating.

So, are those engaged in making products for Wal-Mart in Thailand and other locations worse off than their counterparts who are producing merchandise for other retailers? In other words, are they better off or worse off than their average neighbor? If they are not worse off, then how are they being exploited?

Full employment gives power to workers. Workers are powerless in a system where there is a large surplus of labor. Chinese wages are rising as workers are demanding, and in many cases, rioting as they demand better pay. Every developed country has gone through a similar process. American workers have been no exception.

[thecavemaster]

So, are those engaged in making products for Wal-Mart in Thailand and other locations worse off than their counterparts who are producing merchandise for other retailers? In other words, are they better off or worse off than their average neighbor? If they are not worse off, then how are they being exploited?

Full employment gives power to workers. Workers are powerless in a system where there is a large surplus of labor. Chinese wages are rising as workers are demanding, and in many cases, rioting as they demand better pay. Every developed country has gone through a similar process. American workers have been no exception.

A man with arms but no legs may well be better of than a man with no arms and no legs, but how does that help us here? What does that prove? It proves that you champion a broken system, stick in your thumb, pull out a plum, and think you're a good boy and all is well. Dear, Blind, Hoot... would you only confess your lack of sight, but, alas, you will not. Ditch on the far right, oops, you're in it.