[thecavemaster]

With a full month to prepare a response, the best you could come up with was another childish insult? I am very deeply disappointed in you, CM.

FYI, not a single state in which the gay marriage issue has appeared on the ballot - including California - has failed to pass laws defining marriage as a legal union one man and one woman. Not one.

Apparently, we are a nation of Puritans according to that warped measuring stick that you are using. Heck, we even have some Puritanical gay people who oppose gay marriage.

The ballot box does not determine the meaning of the 14th Amendment, as a simple show of hands in Mississippi might still hold segregation the law of the state. My personal convictions and beliefs are not the test of Constitutional liberty, nor are yours, or Puritans or Christians or Jews or Moslems. And this is to the credit and wisdom of the Framers. If you fail of this basic understanding, America has more to fear from you and your ilk than ten Osam bin Laden's...and that is disappointing.

[Hoot Gibson]

The ballot box does not determine the meaning of the 14th Amendment, as a simple show of hands in Mississippi might still hold segregation the law of the state. My personal convictions and beliefs are not the test of Constitutional liberty, nor are yours, or Puritans or Christians or Jews or Moslems. And this is to the credit and wisdom of the Framers. If you fail of this basic understanding, America has more to fear from you and your ilk than ten Osam bin Laden's...and that is disappointing.

Until you begin posting something of substance, I am finished responding to your insulting, irrelevant, and rambling posts of misinformation.

Less than two years into Obama's single four-year term, Republicans (especially conservative ones) are poised to claim historic gains in the House, Senate, state legislatures, and gubernatorial races from sea to shining sea.

Your attempts to portray those who disagree with you as dangerous nutjobs are a waste of your time and mine. This nation is a representative republic, whether you and your totalitarian wannabe pals on the left like it or not. Voters have rejected gay marriage with every single opportunity that they have been given.

Enough Americans forgot (or were not yet born) the damage that Jimmy Carter inflicted on our institutions to allow Obama to take office. Hopefully, it will be at least another 30 years before Americans elect their next socialist president.

Finally, having lived within the city limits of Jackson, Mississippi for a full year, your lame attempts to portray the good people of Mississippi as segregationists is both mean spirited and factually wrong.

Mississippians are the most mannerly and hospitable people that I have met anywhere. So stop taking cheap shots at the people of Mississippi. Better yet, plan a long vacation to Mississippi and rid yourself of those recycled stereotypes from the 1950s.

[vundy33]

The ballot box does not determine the meaning of the 14th Amendment, as a simple show of hands in Mississippi might still hold segregation the law of the state. My personal convictions and beliefs are not the test of Constitutional liberty, nor are yours, or Puritans or Christians or Jews or Moslems. And this is to the credit and wisdom of the Framers. If you fail of this basic understanding, America has more to fear from you and your ilk than ten Osam bin Laden's...and that is disappointing.

Why do you spell the word Muslims as "Moslems"?

I don't see what the big deal about gay marriage is. If they want to get married bad enough, let them go to a state that they can get married in. This country isn't going to make gay marriages legal nationwide. I'm surprised people are still arguing over this. Get used to it.

[thecavemaster]

Why do you spell the word Muslims as "Moslems"?

I don't see what the big deal about gay marriage is. If they want to get married bad enough, let them go to a state that they can get married in. This country isn't going to make gay marriages legal nationwide. I'm surprised people are still arguing over this. Get used to it.

Of course you don't see what the big deal is, Vundy. Apparently, it doesn't concern you personally, which is cool, but no way to interpret the Constitution. When gay marriage is considered a right protected under the 14th Amendment (equal protection), a consenting adult gay couple in Nebraska won't have to leave their home and move to Massachussetts to get married. Thank goodness, Vundy, that Rosa Parks just didn't "get used to it" when it came to the back of the bus.

[thecavemaster]

Until you begin posting something of substance, I am finished responding to your insulting, irrelevant, and rambling posts of misinformation.

Less than two years into Obama's single four-year term, Republicans (especially conservative ones) are poised to claim historic gains in the House, Senate, state legislatures, and gubernatorial races from sea to shining sea.

Your attempts to portray those who disagree with you as dangerous nutjobs are a waste of your time and mine. This nation is a representative republic, whether you and your totalitarian wannabe pals on the left like it or not. Voters have rejected gay marriage with every single opportunity that they have been given.

Enough Americans forgot (or were not yet born) the damage that Jimmy Carter inflicted on our institutions to allow Obama to take office. Hopefully, it will be at least another 30 years before Americans elect their next socialist president.

Finally, having lived within the city limits of Jackson, Mississippi for a full year, your lame attempts to portray the good people of Mississippi as segregationists is both mean spirited and factually wrong.

Mississippians are the most mannerly and hospitable people that I have met anywhere. So stop taking cheap shots at the people of Mississippi. Better yet, plan a long vacation to Mississippi and rid yourself of those recycled stereotypes from the 1950s.

You do get around, or do you? Great strides have been made in the South toward racial equality. I'm not suggesting otherwise. What I am suggesting is that a show of hands is not how essential liberties and rights are determined in the United State of America. Basically, you just tapped into the old "southern gentleman and belle" stereotype youself. Manners and hospitality upheld the institution of slavery for over a hundred years, and the Christian ministers in the South's adherence to status quo prompted King's "Letter from Birmingham Jail." The overwhelming majority of folks I talk to are vehemently opposed to their children being involved in a reationship with folks of another race. These are all "good and decent people." A lifelong Democrat, old man, had never voted any way for President but democrat, did not vote for Obama because "I just ain't ready for a black president." He is a church deacon of an ultra conservative Baptist church. Do as you wish with my posts, but your dismissal of them is irrelevant.

[Hoot Gibson]

You do get around, or do you? Great strides have been made in the South toward racial equality. I'm not suggesting otherwise. What I am suggesting is that a show of hands is not how essential liberties and rights are determined in the United State of America. Basically, you just tapped into the old "southern gentleman and belle" stereotype youself. Manners and hospitality upheld the institution of slavery for over a hundred years, and the Christian ministers in the South's adherence to status quo prompted King's "Letter from Birmingham Jail." The overwhelming majority of folks I talk to are vehemently opposed to their children being involved in a reationship with folks of another urace. These are all "good and decent people." A lifelong Democrat, old man, had never voted any way for President but democrat, did not vote for Obama because "I just ain't ready for a black president." He is a church deacon of an ultra conservative Baptist church. Do as you wish with my posts, but your dismissal of them is irrelevant.

You see everything through a racial or other identity politics prism, don't you? When I mentioned that folks from Mississippi are he most mannerly and hospitable in the country, I did not mention race. Why? Because it is not relevant. Good manners are nearly universal in Mississippi.

One need not even get out of his or her car to notice it. You will find more polite drivers on the roads in and around Jackson than anywhere else in this country, and the majority of those drivers are black, not white. Driving in central Mississippi is a pleasure compared to every other place that I have ever lived.

If you want to dwell on the fact that Mississippi is home to some racists, then I challenge you to name a state that isn't. Singling out Mississippi as an example of a state whose white resident s long for the days when segregation was the law of the land just demonstrates your ignorance in yet another arena. While I was in Mississippi, I spoke to several black people who had moved north (mostly to the Chicago area) and did not like what they found there - including one of the two people who interviewed and hired me. I would love to move back there someday myself.

[vundy33]

Of course you don't see what the big deal is, Vundy. Apparently, it doesn't concern you personally, which is cool, but no way to interpret the Constitution. When gay marriage is considered a right protected under the 14th Amendment (equal protection), a consenting adult gay couple in Nebraska won't have to leave their home and move to Massachussetts to get married. Thank goodness, Vundy, that Rosa Parks just didn't "get used to it" when it came to the back of the bus.

Are you going to answer my question of why you say "Moslems" instead of the correct spelling?

Stop making comparisons to Rosa Parks and the Civil Rights Movement. You have no right to do that. That was the oppression of an entire race. Gay people don't have to sit at that back of the bus. Gay people don't have their own bathrooms to keep them away from heterosexuals. Gay people are not barred from any kind of public business just for being gay. That is not a valid argument, you may twist it however you want in your mind to make it work, but no one is going to buy it. It's actually kind of an insult to black people to even compare this, in my opinion.

This is an argument of gay people who decide to get married. They're not being kept from doing anything else. This is not a huge deal. No one is physically getting hurt. No one is being kept from going where they want, doing what they want or anything like that. They can get married, they just have to go to a certain place to do it.

I don't think this should be a Federal issue, I think the states should decide on whether they want to allow it or not. I'd like to see a vote on this subject, in each state. That would solve this for the most part, though we would still have to hear radicals like cavemaster go on and on about not every single state voting yes to gay marriage.

[thecavemaster]

Rosa Parks civil rights were being violated. In my opinion, by denying two consenting adults the rights and privileges of marriage, their rights are being violated. That is the comparison being made...not that the two cases are identical in every respect, which, of course, you know.

Muslim. You feel better? Of course, according to dictionary.com, "Moslem" is a variant... but why quibble?

Care to offer an answer to the 14th Amendment question I raised?

By the way, 14,000 members of the Armed Services have been dismissed from service for violating the "Don't Ask Don't Tell" policy... often "outed" by someone seeing an email, overhearing a phone call, stuff like that. If you are gay, and make it known, or it's found out, you can't be in the military... and that's not discrimination? Come on, Vundy.

[vundy33]

Rosa Parks civil rights were being violated. In my opinion, by denying two consenting adults the rights and privileges of marriage, their rights are being violated. That is the comparison being made...not that the two cases are identical in every respect, which, of course, you know.

Muslim. You feel better? Of course, according to dictionary.com, "Moslem" is a variant... but why quibble?

Care to offer an answer to the 14th Amendment question I raised?

By the way, 14,000 members of the Armed Services have been dismissed from service for violating the "Don't Ask Don't Tell" policy... often "outed" by someone seeing an email, overhearing a phone call, stuff like that. If you are gay, and make it known, or it's found out, you can't be in the military... and that's not discrimination? Come on, Vundy.

Just wondering.

I actually looked up the 14th Amendment, and read it word for word. I see how it can be interpreted as gay marriage being "protected", BUT, I'm not an expert when it comes to the Constitution, so I'm not going to jump in any further.

The fact is, I'm not for or against gay marriage. I really don't care. When it comes to DADT, I really don't care either. I will tell you this though, even if DADT is repealed, and gays are aloud in the military, I guarantee MOST of them will keep it to themselves. There's plenty of them in, I even know a few of them myself, but they just won't go about letting everyone know. That's just how it is. Repealing DADT isn't just an equal rights issue, it affects everything. Housing, benefits, morale, all that. I can tell you this, the main reason the top military brass don't want DADT repealed is because they think it will affect morale. It may or may not, we'll see.

It won't bother me...unless gay troops think they're "owed" something or think they deserve more than the rest of the force.

[Matman]

Just wondering.

I actually looked up the 14th Amendment, and read it word for word. I see how it can be interpreted as gay marriage being "protected", BUT, I'm not an expert when it comes to the Constitution, so I'm not going to jump in any further.

The fact is, I'm not for or against gay marriage. I really don't care. When it comes to DADT, I really don't care either. I will tell you this though, even if DADT is repealed, and gays are aloud in the military, I guarantee MOST of them will keep it to themselves. There's plenty of them in, I even know a few of them myself, but they just won't go about letting everyone know. That's just how it is. Repealing DADT isn't just an equal rights issue, it affects everything. Housing, benefits, morale, all that. I can tell you this, the main reason the top military brass don't want DADT repealed is because they think it will affect morale. It may or may not, we'll see.

It won't bother me...unless gay troops think they're "owed" something or think they deserve more than the rest of the force.

I agree. I worry more about how it will effect the mission. Will they be required to stay in the feild with their counter parts. Most do now. But will they be able to opt out of feild training and combat missions due to sexuality? We live together we shower together we do things most could not imagine together. That is why there are not women in my unit. Its a combat unit. As for DADT I am all for it. I am all for gay rights. However I don't want to ask you about your sex life and I don't want you to tell me about your sex life. That applies to gay, straight or other. Its not appropriate. I have been in the Army for 10 years and have never seen anyone put out of the military for DADT. I have seen some try to get out of deployments and use DADT which didn't work.

[thecavemaster]

While same sex relationships appear to me to be biblically a "no go," it seems to me that the general grace of God, the grace that makes the sun to rise on the good and evil, the rain to fall on the just and the unjust, allows it to happen as a consequence of human freedom. This, to me, applies to recognizing gay marriage within a Constitutional democracy. Acceptance of it as a result of basic rights does not necessarily imply approval.

[vundy33]

I agree. I worry more about how it will effect the mission. Will they be required to stay in the feild with their counter parts. Most do now. But will they be able to opt out of feild training and combat missions due to sexuality? We live together we shower together we do things most could not imagine together. That is why there are not women in my unit. Its a combat unit. As for DADT I am all for it. I am all for gay rights. However I don't want to ask you about your sex life and I don't want you to tell me about your sex life. That applies to gay, straight or other. Its not appropriate. I have been in the Army for 10 years and have never seen anyone put out of the military for DADT. I have seen some try to get out of deployments and use DADT which didn't work.

:Thumbs::Clap:

[vundy33]

While same sex relationships appear to me to be biblically a "no go," it seems to me that the general grace of God, the grace that makes the sun to rise on the good and evil, the rain to fall on the just and the unjust, allows it to happen as a consequence of human freedom. This, to me, applies to recognizing gay marriage within a Constitutional democracy. Acceptance of it as a result of basic rights does not necessarily imply approval.

Exactly. I mean, how much could it hurt? Really? If it did either, it would help this country. Most every other modern democracy allows some sort of civil union between homosexuals from what I've read.