[Harry Rex Vonner]

Supply and demand. If a union member demands a "living wage" and someone else will do it for a "working wage" which I assume is less, then as an employer, I'll hire the latter.

It is no different than buying food. If Kroger sells pork and beans cheaper than does Foodland, I'll get my pork and beans at Kroger.

That is just how it should work. That is how a business succeeds rather than fails. You can improve your bottom line in only two ways: by increasing income or by reducing outgo.

A worker is worth no more merely because he is in a union.

[tradition]

I've been a union employee for round 15 years. I know what right to work really means. The pay an the median income in right to' work states is lower i believe by around 8,000 a year. Thats a fact. I've seen workers from down south up here working because they cant get a job at home. A company wont pay a living wage when they can hire mexicans or anyone off the street and pay them 8.00 a hour with no benifits then fire them at will with no just cause. With this right to' work the prevaling wage is gone at all goverment facilities also. As a union member I want a living wage not a working wage. I've seen the craftsmanship of non Union workers in my trade. I would rather pay a little more an have the job done right with quality. Unions gave us 40 hour work week, OT after 40, sick days ,holiday pay, and vacations. These companys gave us none of these they were fought for.

I believe the question is forcing them to join the union when they don't want to. These workers or good enough to be hired , but do not want to join the union for whatever reason. Many have said because their dues will be going towards policies they don't believe in. Why should the unions have a monopoly on certain jobs just because workers that employers feel are qualified and want to work not be allowed to work because they don't want to join the "party".

The battle cry of the union is that the workers aren't as qualified. I have seen both sides. I know there are plenty of union workers that are wonderful and committed to their jobs. There are also plenty of union workers that are just in it to do what they need to to get their benifits and get by. There are a lot of non union workers that have great skills and commitment to their jobs. They should be able to be hired by employers and able to work without having to join something they don't want to, just like everyone else. It's call Freedom.

[grim_reminder]

I admit there are slugs on every job but it don't matter if its union or non union. If a non union job wants to go union it's put to a vote in which majority wins. Now before that vote the company starts putting out propaganda because they will lose some of their power over the working man. Unions were started back in the coal mines of West Virginia to the factories lines of Michigan. They were formed because of the terrible practices of the company they don't care about you when it comes to the dollar. If you get hurt on the job and can't work you still get paid its Workers Compensation. This great thing was started because of the unions to help you and your family. The company bigs and CEOs don't care. Unions have helped this country from the start. Being a American is being a union member. This country is a union and you pay dues. UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL.

[Harry Rex Vonner]

I admit there are slugs on every job but it don't matter if its union or non union. If a non union job wants to go union it's put to a vote in which majority wins. Now before that vote the company starts putting out propaganda because they will lose some of their power over the working man. Unions were started back in the coal mines of West Virginia to the factories lines of Michigan. They were formed because of the terrible practices of the company they don't care about you when it comes to the dollar. If you get hurt on the job and can't work you still get paid its Workers Compensation. This great thing was started because of the unions to help you and your family. The company bigs and CEOs don't care. Unions have helped this country from the start. Being a American is being a union member. This country is a union and you pay dues. UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL.

Surely you don't believe the horse manure that you posted.

I suppose that I could make sweeping, all inclusive statements like you. I could say that all business owners and operators are interested in the welfare of their employees and actually operate with the happiness of the workers as paramount above making a profit. I could also say that all unions are made up of undereducated, lower intelligence, lazy bums with no positive motivation who never work up a sweat other than when they are hurrying away from the job after clocking out their leisurely 8 hours. But all that would not necessarily be true.

The bottom line still remains that business owners and operators create jobs. Union workers merely fill those jobs. If these workers don't like the conditions of their employment, let them go elsewhere. They are easily replaceable. Business owners and operators are not easily replaceable.

[Granny Bear]

Unions were started back in the coal mines of West Virginia to the factories lines of Michigan. They were formed because of the terrible practices of the company they don't care about you when it comes to the dollar.


I believe this to be true. I find it similiar to the government assistance programs that were created at about the same time, to help people get back on their feet at other jobs and/or locations.

I also believe that the same transition has happened to both unions and government assistance programs; a transition that makes these entities unrecognizeable when compared to what they were when they were first initiated and the reasons why they were intended. Greed, laziness and the thought pattern that one is "owed" a living has permeated every fiber of these entitlement abusers. Folks have figured out how to play and beat the system, so they are rewarded for doing absolutely nothing.

[Bob Seger]

Unions were started back in the coal mines of West Virginia to the factories lines of Michigan. They were formed because of the terrible practices of the company they don't care about you when it comes to the dollar.


I believe this to be true. I find it similiar to the government assistance programs that were created at about the same time, to help people get back on their feet at other jobs and/or locations.

I also believe that the same transition has happened to both unions and government assistance programs; a transition that makes these entities unrecognizeable when compared to what they were when they were first initiated and the reasons why they were intended. Greed, laziness and the thought pattern that one is "owed" a living has permeated every fiber of these entitlement abusers. Folks have figured out how to play and beat the system, so they are rewarded for doing absolutely nothing.

Very eloquenly put Granny......I highly doubt that John L. Lewis would condone what todays union has elvolved into.

[Bob Seger]

Surely you don't believe the horse manure that you posted.

I suppose that I could make sweeping, all inclusive statements like you. I could say that all business owners and operators are interested in the welfare of their employees and actually operate with the happiness of the workers as paramount above making a profit. I could also say that all unions are made up of undereducated, lower intelligence, lazy bums with no positive motivation who never work up a sweat other than when they are hurrying away from the job after clocking out their leisurely 8 hours. But all that would not necessarily be true.

The bottom line still remains that business owners and operators create jobs. Union workers merely fill those jobs. If these workers don't like the conditions of their employment, let them go elsewhere. They are easily replaceable. Business owners and operators are not easily replaceable.

Exactly Harry!!! Nobody has a gun put to their heads to work anywhere.

[Harry Rex Vonner]

The union leadership could use a few more men like John L. Lewis. Unfortunately, such leaders are gone forever.

[TheRealThing]

Union leadership in this day is lacking to understate things just a bit. There is much more to leadership than moblizing a mob of thugs willing to committ assault and battery. Honor and integrity, along with a high level of skill would seem to be qualities in which a prospective employer would be more interested to invest his money. That is the product unions have to offer. Not terrorism. It's embarrassing to see these jokers in action.

Leadership is largely at fault, encouraging the rank and file to committ riot and mayhem in order to intimidate the public. Sort of like a highjacking an aircraft, John Q Public are unlikely targets of this type of terroristic negotiating tactics.