[thecavemaster]

So you're saying that the surgeon who went to school for years and years, worked hsi butt off, and studied for hours every night. Should pay more of the money he earns to the mechanic because the mechanic didn't do those things. While he may be a good mechanic, in my eyes you should defintely make more money working on people than you do working on cars. Especially since there is very little schooling needed to become a mechanic, as compared to a doctor. If the mechanic is unhappy, he should become a doctor.

There's no excuses for background, or parents, or where you're from. I know fo people who come from less than nothing who became doctors because they sacrificed and worked hard to get where they are.

They shouldn't be paying the way for people who settled for less.

I believe in progressive taxation, as the hike in gas prices takes more of the "basics for living" money, as a % of total income, from the mechanic than the surgeon. I'm not saying the mechanic should make as much money: market forces decide that. Here is my thing: your "if the mechanic ain't happy, let him go to medical school" rant is probematic. I don't think the mechanic wants to be a doctor. I don't think the mechanic is unhappy. The good mechanic makes a good wage. My concern is not equality of income. It is "living wage" based. Again, I believe in progressive taxation.

[jetpilot]

Obama's children are mad as heck. On Halloween night, after they were done trick or treating, Obama took 80% of their candy and redistributed it to kids who stayed home and watched tv...

[thecavemaster]

Obama's children are mad as heck. On Halloween night, after they were done trick or treating, Obama took 80% of their candy and redistributed it to kids who stayed home and watched tv...

Obama is not some Robin Hood in Sherwood Forest. Have you considered the overall merits of "Joe the Plumber" in terms of what is real and what is for a political campaign?

[Beetle01]

Obama is not some Robin Hood in Sherwood Forest. Have you considered the overall merits of "Joe the Plumber" in terms of what is real and what is for a political campaign?

Have you considered just about everyone of your posts are usually irrelevant to the subject at hand?

[thecavemaster]

Have you considered just about everyone of your posts are usually irrelevant to the subject at hand?

No. Weren't we debating the redistribution of wealth as illustrated by a Halloween joke? Doesn't Robin Hood apply?

[Beetle01]

No. Weren't we debating the redistribution of wealth as illustrated by a Halloween joke? Doesn't Robin Hood apply?

I guess and just like Robin Hood, Obama is a thief.

So.. do you think that a mechanic and surgeon should make the same wage and live the same lifestyle?

[thecavemaster]

I guess and just like Robin Hood, Obama is a thief.

So.. do you think that a mechanic and surgeon should make the same wage and live the same lifestyle?

No. I would think a living wage would mean adequate health care. I would think a living wage would mean ability to have savings and retirement. If one has enough for savings but spends it, that's personal responsibility. I don't believe in equal income. I believe in equity, meaning fairness.

[oneijoe]

No. I would think a living wage would mean adequate health care. I would think a living wage would mean ability to have savings and retirement. If one has enough for savings but spends it, that's personal responsibility. I don't believe in equal income. I believe in equity, meaning fairness.

By you use of the word "adequate" describing health care, does that mean you'd willingly trade off quality for lesser cost ??

Everyone likes to complain about the high cost of medical care. But if you say "yes", you'd be the first person I've encountered who would willingly accept sub-optimal quality in the care of himself or his family.

Who's fault does it become then when a chronic cough treated at an outreach clinic by a nurse practicioner ("adequate" care for less $$) is later found to be advanced lung cancer ? If your answer is anything other than "that's just the accepted risk and no one is to blame", you're NOT ready for it.

[thecavemaster]

By you use of the word "adequate" describing health care, does that mean you'd willingly trade off quality for lesser cost ??

Everyone likes to complain about the high cost of medical care. But if you say "yes", you'd be the first person I've encountered who would willingly accept sub-optimal quality in the care of himself or his family.

Who's fault does it become then when a chronic cough treated at an outreach clinic by a nurse practicioner ("adequate" care for less $$) is later found to be advanced lung cancer ? If your answer is anything other than "that's just the accepted risk and no one is to blame", you're NOT ready for it.

Persistent, nagging coughs that don't get X-rayed and turn out to be lung cancer, with the right attorney, end up in court...settlement. If I were convinced that the overall quality of care in Canada is a nightmare, a sea of neglected patients dying in waiting rooms, I might buy into your defining of the argument, but I don't, and, therefore, you don't get to define the debate on your terms.

[Matman]

Persistent, nagging coughs that don't get X-rayed and turn out to be lung cancer, with the right attorney, end up in court...settlement. If I were convinced that the overall quality of care in Canada is a nightmare, a sea of neglected patients dying in waiting rooms, I might buy into your defining of the argument, but I don't, and, therefore, you don't get to define the debate on your terms.

I will take Oneijoes word on this one. He knows a little more than i do and has more experience with medicine than i do. Now football is another story.

[oneijoe]

Persistent, nagging coughs that don't get X-rayed and turn out to be lung cancer, with the right attorney, end up in court...settlement. If I were convinced that the overall quality of care in Canada is a nightmare, a sea of neglected patients dying in waiting rooms, I might buy into your defining of the argument, but I don't, and, therefore, you don't get to define the debate on your terms.

Hahahaha!!! If I don't give you information that jives with your ideal vision, you'll discard it, eh ?!?

I'll take it a step further using the "chronic cough" case. Say the NP orders an X-Ray and the tumor is spotted by radiology. The patient is sent to a specialist. It takes ~4 weeks to get an appointment with an Oncologist (that's factual in Britain). The patient ultimately ends up dying. While the "right attorney" could try to get a "settlement", did you know "unavoidable delay in treating" is considered a legitimate legal defense in Britain in cases like this ?!?

My point is...health care is like everything else. You get what you pay for and more importantly, in this example, when you pay for it.

[thecavemaster]

Hahahaha!!! If I don't give you information that jives with your ideal vision, you'll discard it, eh ?!?

I'll take it a step further using the "chronic cough" case. Say the NP orders an X-Ray and the tumor is spotted by radiology. The patient is sent to a specialist. It takes ~4 weeks to get an appointment with an Oncologist (that's factual in Britain). The patient ultimately ends up dying. While the "right attorney" could try to get a "settlement", did you know "unavoidable delay in treating" is considered a legitimate legal defense in Britain in cases like this ?!?

My point is...health care is like everything else. You get what you pay for and more importantly, in this example, when you pay for it.

I am answering your arguments. Please check the average life span in Canada and Great Britain. When it comes to healthcare, "you get what you pay for" is not good enough for a country that claims to be "a city set on a hill for the encouragement of humankind." Take your chances with social Darwinism; I'll prefer mercy over judgment.

[oneijoe]

... I'll prefer mercy over judgment.

This may be the REAL difference between us. "Mercy" depends on the actions of others, while "judgement" implies self-reliance.

That's a nice way to end this thread. :howdy:

[thecavemaster]

This may be the REAL difference between us. "Mercy" depends on the actions of others, while "judgement" implies self-reliance.

That's a nice way to end this thread. :howdy:

I'll prefer mercy over sacrifice: define each as you wish. Nice cartoon.