[TheRealThing]

Everyone in this country should be able to love anyone of their choice. I think that sheep should have the same rights as everyone one else myself.

LOL, that actually is the real argument. Once we cross the line, where then do we have the right to redraw it? Do we necessarily have to stay in the animal kingdom? Seriously, what about folks who love their Begonias?

[Granny Bear]

Hey! Leave my flower garden OUT of this!

I love those perennials.

[Stardust]

^ Flower garden????

[LWC]

This has taken a weird, but accurate twist.

[Granny Bear]

^^
Agreed!!

Yes, my flower garden. It's very special to me. I have several and plant one each year specifically for those "special" folks in my life. Actually, begonias are my husbands favorite, so I have just for him. Impatience for my daughter; snapdragons for my grand children, something lavender for my mom and something red for my dad; both of which has passed on.

I do large pots for me!

I know this is crazy, LOL, but it's true.

[Stardust]

^ nevermind

You completely ruined a great opportunity of me being ornery.....

[Granny Bear]

Oh I doubt ANYONE could do that!!
:lmao:

[TheRealVille]

For crying out loud RV. You know as well as I do that same sex marriages are unnatural. Before it's over you'll have people wanting to marry their pets, in all likelihood. When that happens you going to advocate for beastiallity too? But to answer your question directly, no.

I'm not better than the 39 members of Heaven's Gate who committed suicide to get picked up by a UFO either. But, I'd like to think I'm a little better grounded.

That's not for you and me to decide, and the bible has no rule over the US. Voting citizens have every right to do what you and I are allowed to do. About the bestiality thing, you are now just being plain dumb. Animals don't vote or a have a voice to say what they want, so you are just throwing stupid stuff into the debate. That's how you people roll though, so I expected it.

[TheRealThing]

That's not for you and me to decide, and the bible has no rule over the US. Voting citizens have every right to do what you and I are allowed to do. About the bestiality thing, you are now just being plain dumb. Animals don't vote or a have a voice to say what they want, so you are just throwing stupid stuff into the debate. That's how you people roll though, so I expected it.

I know. I always feel so intimidated by your intellect and I have so much trouble thinking of how I want to say something. However, as I keep trying to tell you, and as you rightly have said, it's not my decision or yours. Those types of decisions fall within the purview of the God of the universe. You fail to understand the other side of the argument IMO. If man can't decide it's wrong then how is it in your mind he can decide it's okay? If man doesn't have the authority to judge right from wrong, then to me the logical place to settle the argument would be to go to God's word. Otherwise, a satisfactory resoution to the debate is unascertainable. You have an argument with the Lord, not with me. American law is not insulated from truth, regardless of what men like you may say. And, it's not some olly olly home free, where the activist and liberal judges can legislate from the bench, running amok to create some alter reality that flies in the face of everything America has stood for, the first 230 years of her existence.

[TheRealVille]

I know. I always feel so intimidated by your intellect and I have so much trouble thinking of how I want to say something. However, as I keep trying to tell you, and as you rightly have said, it's not my decision or yours. Those types of decisions fall within the purview of the God of the universe. You fail to understand the other side of the argument IMO. If man can't decide it's wrong then how is it in your mind he can decide it's okay? If man doesn't have the authority to judge right from wrong, then to me the logical place to settle the argument would be to go to God's word. Otherwise, a satisfactory resoution to the debate is unascertainable. You have an argument with the Lord, not with me. American law is not insulated from truth, regardless of what men like you may say. And, it's not some olly olly home free, where the activist and liberal judges can legislate from the bench, running amok to create some alter reality that flies in the face of everything America has stood for, the first 230 years of her existence.

God's word has no place deciding US law, because only christians live by god's word. Your lord, isn't the author and finisher of American law, the people are. When are you going to figure out that your god isn't my god, and has no place in making rules in a government for all people.

[TheRealThing]

God's word has no place deciding US law, because only christians live by god's word. Your lord, isn't the author and finisher of American law, the people are. When are you going to figure out that your god isn't my god, and has no place in making rules in a government for all people.

That's the thing about being a leftwing extremist. You all have lied to yourselves so much you think all reality prior up to about a decade and a half ago never happened. In your mind, everything you hate about mainstream America is in your rear view and only people like me can't accept the total change which is the 'new' America. What you fail to admit is that there are far more folks like me, than there are like you, philosophically. Liberal extremists are the thin minority and when pitted against the rest of the American voting public, you all are outnumbered 4 to 1.

The reason the liberal agenda has enjoyed so many late breaking advances is because the voting public has been asleep. It's taken some pretty eye opening loses of freedom and the threat of more, to get the trusting citizenry of this nation to pay attention to what is going on around them. That, and the fact that, to their credit, liberals have been able to position themselves very strategically in the various government, judicial and legislative positions of power and thereby known great success with advancing their items of agenda. The 'great generation', having subdued a global threat in WWII, and their decendants, have been taught to trust the intentions of their elected officials and they have dutifully done just that. As I have said however, the sleeper has awakened.

But, to your point. You could not be more wrong in your assertion regarding God's indirect role in government. We are a christian nation despite your rantings to the contrary, and so have we always been. Therefore, men of conscience who make their way into public service are guided by moral convictions which they have been taught at home and at church. We're not a theocracy, but this Orwellian onslaught against God, with the intent to expunge Him and His influence in any form, no matter how entrenched in the tradition and heritage of our land, is inexcusable. I guess, you think the limited acquisition of knowledge a man can amass within only a part of his lifetime, is sufficient to overturn the collective wisdom of the past 230 years of our nation's existence, much less the wisdom of the ages, which is contained in the scriptures for our convenience.

As I have mentioned before, all this effort to distance ourselves from the Lord is the work product of late 20th century liberals. The only reason they do it, is because they don't want to be reminded that they are living in open rebellion to the God who created them and who demands of them a decision as to whether or not they will serve Him. Therefore, the inexplicable rebellion through laws men have written, which challenge the Almighty's claim to being the God of all men. It's just too much of a cockleburr under the old saddle blanket for most of them to endure. Man's conscience is still a force to be reckoned with, God made us that way.

[TheRealVille]

[/B]



That's the thing about being a leftwing extremist. You all have lied to yourselves so much you think all reality prior up to about a decade and a half ago never happened. In your mind, everything you hate about mainstream America is in your rear view and only people like me can't accept the total change which is the 'new' America. What you fail to admit is that there are far more folks like me, than there are like you, philosophically. Liberal extremists are the thin minority and when pitted against the rest of the American voting public, you all are outnumbered 4 to 1.

The reason the liberal agenda has enjoyed so many late breaking advances is because the voting public has been asleep. It's taken some pretty eye opening loses of freedom and the threat of more, to get the trusting citizenry of this nation to pay attention to what is going on around them. That, and the fact that, to their credit, liberals have been able to position themselves very strategically in the various government, judicial and legislative positions of power and thereby known great success with advancing their items of agenda. The 'great generation', having subdued a global threat in WWII, and their decendants, have been taught to trust the intentions of their elected officials and they have dutifully done just that. As I have said however, the sleeper has awakened.

But, to your point. You could not be more wrong in your assertion regarding God's indirect role in government. We are a christian nation despite your rantings to the contrary, and so have we always been. Therefore, men of conscience who make their way into public service are guided by moral convictions which they have been taught at home and at church. We're not a theocracy, but this Orwellian onslaught against God, with the intent to expunge Him and His influence in any form, no matter how entrenched in the tradition and heritage of our land, is inexcusable. I guess, you think the limited acquisition of knowledge a man can amass within only a part of his lifetime, is sufficient to overturn the collective wisdom of the past 230 years of our nation's existence, much less the wisdom of the ages, which is contained in the scriptures for our convenience.

As I have mentioned before, all this effort to distance ourselves from the Lord is the work product of late 20th century liberals. The only reason they do it, is because they don't want to be reminded that they are living in open rebellion to the God who created them and who demands of them a decision as to whether or not they will serve Him. Therefore, the inexplicable rebellion through laws men have written, which challenge the Almighty's claim to being the God of all men. It's just too much of a cockleburr under the old saddle blanket for most of them to endure. Man's conscience is still a force to be reckoned with, God made us that way.

Never have been, never will be. History and documents prove it. We are a nation that let's people choose their god, or not, but not one sentence in any form, in any official government document, from the founding fathers allude to this being a christian nation.

[TheRealThing]

Never have been, never will be. History and documents prove it. We are a nation that let's people choose their god, or not, but not one sentence in any form, in any official government document, from the founding fathers allude to this being a christian nation.

I have posted the documents proving you wrong time and again. Anybody can go back and look up my posts, by the dozens. Or, they can have a look at the historical documents that are the body of work and the quotes of our forefathers, they are on line and easy to find. Even the strife that existed in England that drove the colonists to sail across the ocean to find relief from governmental intrusion and religious meddling are there for all to see. To deny one's own heritage is self destructive and puts one at odds with his own country.

[TheRealVille]

I have posted the documents proving you wrong time and again. Anybody can go back and look up my posts, by the dozens. Or, they can have a look at the hisorical documents that are the body of work and the quotes of our forefathers, they are on line and easy to find.

All you post is documents about "god". Which god? We are a nation of peoples of many god's.

[TheRealThing]

All you post is documents about "god". Which god? We are a nation of peoples of many god's.

Running out of ammo I see.

[RunItUpTheGut]

Bye on the bible end of it. I could care less if his bible says it's wrong, it's a fairy tale book. I'm not debating bible with him, I'm debating American law. I have no use debating the bible stuff, I don't believe any of it.

lol, I think anyone who has been on BGR knows that.

However, im just messing with you.
I commend your efforts as the minority on this site a lot of the time.

However, you live in a part of the country where the opposite is excepted.
If you lived in New York City, you couldnt have any fun on a thread like this, because youd be the majority, or Hoot :biggrin:

[TheRealVille]

Running out of ammo I see.

No. Official US documents all name god, but not the christian god. To the hindu that is a citizen of the US, that god is whoever the hindu god is, and right on down the line. The god references in US documents is for whatever god the citizens serve. This has NEVER been a christian nation. Feel free to prove it to by links to documents that state otherwise.

[Pulp Fiction]

No. Official U.S. documents all name God, but not the christian God. To the hindu, that is a citizen of the U.S., that God is whoever the hindu God is, and right on down the line. The God references in U.S. documents is for whatever God the citizens serve. This has NEVER been a christian nation. Feel free to prove it to by links to documents that state otherwise.

Spelling and Grammar check completed.

[Pulp Fiction]

Just off the top of my head........

- "In God We Trust" is on our money.
- Elected Officials are sworn in on The Bible. And they end their oath with "So Help Me God."
- Our Nation celebrates Christmas (The Birth of Christ), Good Friday (The day Jesus was crucified) and Easter (The day Jesus arose from the tomb.)
- Law Enforcement officers and Enlisted and Officers in the Military end their oath's with "So Help Me God."
- When a Straight couple is married, the preacher will end the vows with something to the effect of "What God has joined together, let no man put asunder."

The F.B.I. would call these Clues about the United States being a Christian Nation.

[Pulp Fiction]

Here's something that's not been mentioned.........

For those who still need proof that homosexuality is wrong, and believe The Bible. Read Genesis chapters 18 and 19. These scriptures are not a fairy tale or mythology. The mentioned scriptures are a true account of what happened to two cities that sound familiar to the times and the way our nation (U.S.A.) has become.

[TheRealThing]

No. Official US documents all name god, but not the christian god. To the hindu that is a citizen of the US, that god is whoever the hindu god is, and right on down the line. The god references in US documents is for whatever god the citizens serve. This has NEVER been a christian nation. Feel free to prove it to by links to documents that state otherwise.

As to the bolded, I see you've invented a blind alley to catch your breath. Total blather. You're trying to tell me Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson gave a hoot or a holler about the Hari Krishna's or Islam? The Church of England, from which they hailed was a CHRISTIAN CHURCH. No matter how many times I and others have proven our position with sources galore, you will never admit the truth. That chip on your should and your bias are the most important things in your life, and you seem determined to hold on to them in the face of indisputable evidences to the contrary, as the scripture says,
Luke 16:31 (KJV)
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

It's not about proof and it's not about sources of evidence, it's a matter of rebellion. It has always been a matter of rebellion from the time Satan first declared he would elevate his throne above that of the Most High's throne. And, it's only natural. That after all, is the choice all men must make. Bow before God and accept eternal life through Christ or, live in rebellion, declaring God's law null and void and that it has no place in the lives of men. That is RV's position and that is the position of activist judges and lawmakers who choose to ignore their own consciences. But, not without price.

[TheRealVille]

As to the bolded, I see you've invented a blind alley to catch your breath. Total blather. You're trying to tell me Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson gave a hoot or a holler about the Hari Krishna's or Islam? The Church of England, from which they hailed was a CHRISTIAN CHURCH. No matter how many times I and others have proven our position with sources galore, you will never admit the truth. That chip on your should and your bias are the most important things in your life, and you seem determined to hold on to them in the face of indisputable evidences to the contrary, as the scripture says,
Luke 16:31 (KJV)
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

It's not about proof and it's not about sources of evidence, it's a matter of rebellion. It has always been a matter of rebellion from the time Satan first declared he would elevate his throne above that of the Most High's throne. And, it's only natural. That after all, is the choice all men must make. Bow before God and accept eternal life through Christ or, live in rebellion, declaring God's law null and void and that it has no place in the lives of men. That is RV's position and that is the position of activist judges and lawmakers who choose to ignore their own consciences. But, not without price.

Yea, as I remember in history class, they left England to shed themselves of that church state. Christians have tried for decades to make the US a christian state, but history and documents won't allow it. I'm still waiting on your "christian nation" proof.

[TheRealVille]

Just off the top of my head........

- "In God We Trust" is on our money. Added in the 50's. And alluding to whatever god your worship. God is a general term in all the documents.
- Elected Officials are sworn in on The Bible. And they end their oath with "So Help Me God." Wrong. They are sworn in on the book of their faith, and whatever god they worship
- Our Nation celebrates Christmas (The Birth of Christ), Good Friday (The day Jesus was crucified) and Easter (The day Jesus arose from the tomb.) Hanukah is also a holiday that is celebrated, and Jesus isn't part of that religion.
- Law Enforcement officers and Enlisted and Officers in the Military end their oath's with "So Help Me God." Whatever god they worship
- When a Straight couple is married, the preacher will end the vows with something to the effect of "What God has joined together, let no man put asunder." It's not mandatory words, and a preacher doesn't have to be the one that marries them.

The F.B.I. would call these Clues about the United States being a Christian Nation.

Anything else to address?

[TheRealVille]

Spelling and Grammar check completed.

Don't change my post. You don't have that authority. Are you a moderator?

Even moderators aren't allowed to do that.

Do not edit another member's grammar mistakes. This is not an English class and we are not grammar police. Mobile devices are popular these days and those keypads are really small.

[Hoot Gibson]

Spelling and Grammar check completed.

Not quite. You missed a few glaring errors. I may have missed a few more myself. Make no mistake, most of these errors were intentional swipes at organized religion. Atheists get their kicks from such petty acts. Agnostics usually have more respect for grammar rules. nicker:

No. Official U.S. documents all name God, but not the Christian God. To the Hindu, that is a citizen of the U.S., that God is whoever the Hindu God is, and right on down the line. The God references in U.S. documents is [should be are] for whatever God the citizens serve. This has NEVER been a Christian nation. Feel free to prove it to by links to documents that state otherwise.

[Pulp Fiction]

Don't change my post. You don't have that authority. Are you a moderator?

Even moderators aren't allowed to do that.

Not a moderator....... Just a child of the King (and by King, I mean Jesus)

[TheRealThing]

Yea, as I remember in history class, they left England to shed themselves of that church state. Christians have tried for decades to make the US a christian state, but history and documents won't allow it. I'm still waiting on your "christian nation" proof.

LOL, what history class was that anyway?
Wow. Your batting average is zero these days. And, I can say with certainty that I have no idea what you are talking about when you say England was a church state. What is a church state anyway? The colonists fled England to get away from the tyranny of King George III. The crown meddled in the church incessantly and was the source of great angst for his subjects. Thus, among the first orders of business for the framers of the US constitution is contained in the first amendment.

ARTICLE EXCERPT---
Federal level;
The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution explicitly forbids the federal government from enacting any law respecting a religious establishment, and thus forbids either designating an official church for the United States, or interfering with State and local official churches — which were common when the First Amendment was enacted. It did not prevent state governments from establishing official churches. Connecticut continued to do so until it replaced its colonial Charter with the Connecticut Constitution of 1818; Massachusetts retained an establishment of religion in general until 1833. As of 2010, Article III of the Massachusetts constitution still provided, "... the legislature shall, from time to time, authorize and require, the several towns, parishes, precincts, and other bodies politic, or religious societies, to make suitable provision, at their own expense, for the institution of the public worship of God, and for the support and maintenance of public Protestant teachers of piety, religion and morality, in all cases where such provision shall not be made voluntarily."

State level;
All current State constitutions do mention a Creator, but include guarantees of religious liberty parallel to the First Amendment. The constitutions of eight states (Arkansas, Maryland, Massachusetts, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Tennessee, and Texas) also contain clauses that prohibit atheists from holding public office. However, these clauses were held by the U.S. Supreme Court to be unenforceable in the 1961 case of Torcaso v. Watkins, where the court ruled unanimously that such clauses constituted a religious test incompatible with the religious test prohibition in Article 6 Section 3 of the United States Constitution.
END EXCERPT--- WIKI

The last part of your statement, which I have bolded and enlarged, is absurd. You can't come up with a single documented case to support this baloney. You should stick with the truth if you want to be taken seriously. One would literally need to redact thousands of references to God from our nations historical documents to make your assertion seem true.

[TheRealVille]

LOL, what history class was that anyway?
Wow. Your batting average is zero these days. And, I can say with certainty that I have no idea what you are talking about when you say England was a church state. What is a church state anyway? The colonists fled England to get away from the tyranny of King George III. The crown meddled in the church incessantly and was the source of great angst for his subjects. Thus, among the first orders of business for the framers of the US constitution is contained in the first amendment.

ARTICLE EXCERPT---
Federal level;
The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution explicitly forbids the federal government from enacting any law respecting a religious establishment, and thus forbids either designating an official church for the United States, or interfering with State and local official churches — which were common when the First Amendment was enacted. It did not prevent state governments from establishing official churches. Connecticut continued to do so until it replaced its colonial Charter with the Connecticut Constitution of 1818; Massachusetts retained an establishment of religion in general until 1833. As of 2010, Article III of the Massachusetts constitution still provided, "... the legislature shall, from time to time, authorize and require, the several towns, parishes, precincts, and other bodies politic, or religious societies, to make suitable provision, at their own expense, for the institution of the public worship of God, and for the support and maintenance of public Protestant teachers of piety, religion and morality, in all cases where such provision shall not be made voluntarily."

State level;
All current State constitutions do mention a Creator, but include guarantees of religious liberty parallel to the First Amendment. The constitutions of eight states (Arkansas, Maryland, Massachusetts, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Tennessee, and Texas) also contain clauses that prohibit atheists from holding public office. However, these clauses were held by the U.S. Supreme Court to be unenforceable in the 1961 case of Torcaso v. Watkins, where the court ruled unanimously that such clauses constituted a religious test incompatible with the religious test prohibition in Article 6 Section 3 of the United States Constitution.
END EXCERPT--- WIKI

The last part of your statement, which I have bolded and enlarged, is absurd. You can't come up with a single documented case to support this baloney. You should stick with the truth if you want to be taken seriously. One would literally need to redact thousands of references to God from our nations historical documents to make your assertion seem true.

Looks like you prove my point that the US isn't a christian nation.

[TheRealThing]

Looks like you prove my point that the US isn't a christian nation.

LOL, everybody reading these posts know you are whistling past the graveyard.

The Declaration of Independence proclaims as a self-evident truth the First Principle that “all men are endowed, by their Creator, with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.” You can't duck the cannon ball on this one, Creator can only mean God.

“The sacred rights of mankind,” Alexander Hamilton observed, “are not to be rummaged for among old parchments or musty records. They are written, as with a sunbeam, in the whole volume of human nature, by the hand of divinity itself, and can never be erased or obscured by mortal power.” That's not to say that liberals won't give it the college try. Speaking with guile in your mouth is a favorite manuver especially when you liberals get your backs up against the wall, that's when you always fall back on the predictable Bill Clnton 'rope a dope' routine, and start the "depends on what your definition of is, is" tactic.

[TheRealVille]

LOL, everybody reading these posts know you are whistling past the graveyard.

The Declaration of Independence proclaims as a self-evident truth the First Principle that “all men are endowed, by their Creator, with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.” You can't duck the cannon ball on this one, Creator can only mean God.

“The sacred rights of mankind,” Alexander Hamilton observed, “are not to be rummaged for among old parchments or musty records. They are written, as with a sunbeam, in the whole volume of human nature, by the hand of divinity itself, and can never be erased or obscured by mortal power.” That's not to say that liberals won't give it the college try. Speaking with guile in your mouth is a favorite manuver especially when you liberals get your backs up against the wall, that's when you always fall back on the predictable Bill Clnton 'rope a dope' routine, and start the "depends on what your definition of is, is" tactic.

And it says christian where?