[TheRealThing]

"Healthcare.gov, the federal Obamacare website, cost taxpayers more than $630 million, nearly seven times its original estimate of $93 million, new figures reveal.

Yet it will likely take months to get it running properly following its disastrous rollout last week, when those hoping to enroll instead experienced an online nightmare, with websites crashing, refusing to load, and failing to offer comprehensive choices.

"It’s like trying to repair a car while someone is driving it," George Edwards, a computer scientist and professor at the University of Southern California, told Fox News."

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/obamaca...z2hMSUY3lv

The federal government is notorious for understating the true cost of one of their programs. From new weapons systems to social programs, the cost is always far more than expected. Why people would choose to believe the final results of the federal takeover of our health system would break that mold is beyond me. If the cost of the abysmally functioning website is any indicator, Americans are in for one wild ride, as nobody truly knows how much coverage will wind up costing. And, let us not forget, ObamaCare regulations, fees and penalties are still being written at this very hour.

Most Americans struggle to keep the utilities on, keep the car running and the payments up, put food on the table, and pay insurance and taxes among their many expenses. Thousands of dollars worth of additional costs in the form of healthcare and health insurance premiums will destroy the delicate balancing act, most folks are by necessity faced with these days. According to available statistics, most families have just over 3,000 in savings. The only equity of which the average American can boast is tied up in home ownership and more people have equity loans than do not. Therefore it is my position that the relative few will be able to absorb the costs associated with ObamaCare, while the vast majority will not.

[plantmanky]

I have my own individual plan with anthem, had it since 1998 so I am grandfather into this whole mess. Per the exchange rates, would I have to go that route, it would cost me 3 times what my current premiums are, with no assistants.

[TheRealThing]

I have my own individual plan with anthem, had it since 1998 so I am grandfather into this whole mess. Per the exchange rates, would I have to go that route, it would cost me 3 times what my current premiums are, with no assistants.

That's incredible. Is Anthem giving the same deal to all their standing policy holders? I was thinking the carve out insisted on by James Hoffa et-al, consisted roughly of maintaining present rates, along with a stay on the 40% tax rate on health policies of the rank and file. The framers of ObamaCare intended to use this 'fee' to help fund ObamaCare. I've harped on my next point a lot but, it still amazes me that more people are not incensed because the 2,500 dollar yearly premium savings promised to those who already had health insurance, has never materialized. Neither has any sort of explanation, LOL.

[nky]

nope went up a few hundred $ a month as of Jan 1

[TheRealThing]

The timing of the ongoing government shutdown is unfortunate. According to recent numbers published by CNN, only 16.3% of Americans were uninsured as of 2012 BOC. (Before Obama Care) After Jan 1, when the ObamaCare law mandates a lot of coverage changes on all policies to go into effect, the rates of the remaining 83.7% will go much higher. So, a few months from now when hard reality hits those who pay for their own insurance, we will see Democrats like Nancy Pelosi reaping the ire of folks who are paying through the nose for coverage.

Nothing will have changed for those who got free care in the first place except that from now on, that free care will rival the level of care everybody else gets. (Government watchdog agencies will keep tabs to make sure) The 83.7% will see their level of care fall as they see costs rise in skyrocket fashion. A quick check on the ObamaCare Cost Calculator , shows that in Kentucky, a family of four will pay $15,150 for an unsubsidized premium on the exchange in 2014. By 2016 the cheapest plan available will cost the family of four $20,000. http://obamacarefacts.com/irs-average-fa...macare.php I mean, it's like these bozos have gotten so used to hearing that trillion dollar debt price tag thrown around so much of late, it's equally believable for them to think that regular working folks could pay 20 thousand a year. And that's just for the insurance premiums, not to mention the major shortfall left over on a bronze level plan which pays only 60% of covered not all, health care costs.

Democrats would do well to cash their chips in as soon as possible in my view. Republicans are just trying to stave off the brunt of the financial carnage as much as possible. It doesn't even matter what the polls say about approval ratings right now, once the new insurance bills and copay bills start rolling in, there won't be anywhere else for dems to point the blame for this mess.

[RunItUpTheGut]

Interesting, i didnt see this on the news today.

[TheRealThing]

^Just saw an interview with John McAfee. According to him, 5 million dollars and fifteen techs, could well have set up a functioning website, capable of servicing the necessary volume of internet traffic associated with signups for ObamaCare, and complete with the necessary fire walls and safeguards to protect internet applicants. So far, we taxpayers have paid over 630 million for a website rife with flaws and security concerns. In other words, the darn thing doesn't work. Private industry version would have cost five million, with the government provided version likely to cost over a billion by the time it's up and running. No wonder only the brilliant ones can make it in congress. BTW, did I mention the original price of 93 million was already 20 times more expensive than it should have been and we will be paying 200 times that, before it's over? Just checking, LOL.

According to McAfee, the whole thing is jury rigged. An internet version of gum and baling wire construction, utilizing the India based software known as Java Script. Amateur hour rages on, LOL. McAfee insists that it will be easy for anybody with the few hundred bucks required to set up a fake ObamaCare website, to dupe folks into logging on and divulging all their pertinent information. With which, the administrator of the fake website will be able to empty the bank accounts of unwitting applicants. Again, according to him, there are absolutely zero safeguards provided, and those who would apply via internet are completely vulnerable.

But, by all means, let's make sure we support the efforts of democrats to pillory the viable concerns of responsible republicans who are just trying to do their job, by suggesting that we wait at least until the darn website is ready. :igiveup: This is the kind of lunacy we will suffer for allowing one party, the dems, to give the whole country their opinion, in lieu of competition by private enterprise and rational thought, or the republican half of the government. Had enough of the lemming rush? I know I have.

[RunItUpTheGut]

^
Everyday, the dems dig a deeper hole.
The view of Republicans aint great, but its congress overall that has the worst approval rating of all time.

[Hoot Gibson]

^Just saw an interview with John McAfee. According to him, 5 million dollars and fifteen techs, could well have set up a functioning website, capable of servicing the necessary volume of internet traffic associated with signups for ObamaCare, and complete with the necessary fire walls and safeguards to protect internet applicants. So far, we taxpayers have paid over 630 million for a website rife with flaws and security concerns. In other words, the darn thing doesn't work. Private industry version would have cost five million, with the government provided version likely to cost over a billion by the time it's up and running. No wonder only the brilliant ones can make it in congress. BTW, did I mention the original price of 93 million was already 20 times more expensive than it should have been and we will be paying 200 times that, before it's over? Just checking, LOL.

According to McAfee, the whole thing is jury rigged. An internet version of gum and baling wire construction, utilizing the India based software known as Java Script. Amateur hour rages on, LOL. McAfee insists that it will be easy for anybody with the few hundred bucks required to set up a fake ObamaCare website, to dupe folks into logging on and divulging all their pertinent information. With which, the administrator of the fake website will be able to empty the bank accounts of unwitting applicants. Again, according to him, there are absolutely zero safeguards provided, and those who would apply via internet are completely vulnerable.

But, by all means, let's make sure we support the efforts of democrats to pillory the viable concerns of responsible republicans who are just trying to do their job, by suggesting that we wait at least until the darn website is ready. :igiveup: This is the kind of lunacy we will suffer for allowing one party, the dems, to give the whole country their opinion, in lieu of competition by private enterprise and rational thought, or the republican half of the government. Had enough of the lemming rush? I know I have.

I am not sure exactly what McAfee said about Indian programmers or JavaScript, but if your summary of his comments is accurate, then he is wrong on both counts. You can bet that the blame for the failure on the software side of Obamacare lies 100 percent with the idiots who wrote the legislation and are trying to ram it down our throats.

In order to develop solid, reliable software for business systems, somebody has to understand that system and articulate the business logic to the application architects. I doubt that there is a single person in this country who understands Obamacare well enough to explain it to a programmer well enough for him or her to get the application right on the first release.

Most of the top application developers with whom I have worked have been from India. As for JavaScript, it is the hottest technology on the planet. It started as a simple scripting language that was used to manipulate web pages but it is now being used in very large scale databases (e.g., MongoDb), high performance servers (e.g., node.js), and almost everywhere else that you find cutting edge applications. That does not mean that there is not plenty of bad software based on JavaScript code, just that if the code is bad it has nothing to do with the fact that it was written in JavaScript.

I can tell you from experience that when a software project fails or stumbles out of the gate like the Obamacare software has, it is the result of the business logic being poorly defined and not the fault of the software developers. I expect that Congress will demand an investigation over the failure of the Obamacare software, but it will be nothing more than an attempt to shift blame away from themselves to a convenient scapegoat.

[TheRealThing]

I am not sure exactly what McAfee said about Indian programmers or JavaScript, but if your summary of his comments is accurate, then he is wrong on both counts. You can bet that the blame for the failure on the software side of Obamacare lies 100 percent with the idiots who wrote the legislation and are trying to ram it down our throats.

In order to develop solid, reliable software for business systems, somebody has to understand that system and articulate the business logic to the application architects. I doubt that there is a single person in this country who understands Obamacare well enough to explain it to a programmer well enough for him or her to get the application right on the first release.

Most of the top application developers with whom I have worked have been from India. As for JavaScript, it is the hottest technology on the planet. It started as a simple scripting language that was used to manipulate web pages but it is now being used in very large scale databases (e.g., MongoDb), high performance servers (e.g., node.js), and almost everywhere else that you find cutting edge applications. That does not mean that there is not plenty of bad software based on JavaScript code, just that if the code is bad it has nothing to do with the fact that it was written in JavaScript.

I can tell you from experience that when a software project fails or stumbles out of the gate like the Obamacare software has, it is the result of the business logic being poorly defined and not the fault of the software developers. I expect that Congress will demand an investigation over the failure of the Obamacare software, but it will be nothing more than an attempt to shift blame away from themselves to a convenient scapegoat.

Well it's about time you weighed in on this matter :biggrin:. McAfee said 5 million and 15 good techs could have handled the project. I don't have the first doubt that there isn't one living human that could articulate in accurate terms, even a relatively panoramic working model of ObamaCare. As for the JavaScript part, he said the programmers sort of scraped together an ill conceived piecemeal version that had no chance of working. It's easier for me to believe McAfee has a better handle on what is likely to be the problems with the website over the word of Kathleen Sebelius, who says everything is hunky-dory.

His discourse was a little vague, which I took to be dumbed down for the moment. After all, I could well see how he would feel the need to keep it simple if he's watching the same news I am. Most folks think the bru-ha-ha in DC is nothing more than a bunch of clashing egos. And that Republicans are mostly to blame for the whole affair. Although that seems to be changing a little bit a present.

[TheRealThing]

^Had to leave there for a sec. I've been hearing some rumblings about the likelihood of a Congressional investigation. There is no doubt now that the stonewalling and nose thumbing will just go on and on. One year plus into it, and we still haven't heard jack about Benghazi. The investigation into the IRS scandal is inching along, slogging through one legal challenge after the other. We're hip deep in dozens of new scandals associated with the shut down at present too. The DOD's refusal to pay benefits to the widows of the recently fallen is supposedly the fault of the lawyers. You know, the lawyers? Like lawyers are something mystical on the order of unicorns or something. They're still accountable to somebody who represents the people, at some level of government. Why would they have researched so diligently for a loophole on which they could establish plausible deniability, if they weren't actively looking for a way to avoid paying said benefits?

[RunItUpTheGut]

Lets hope the Repubs can distance themselves from this tea party outlook. Im not necessarily against anything, but the views of the tea party are horrible.
The Repubs have 3 years to find a strong candidate. I wonder if there will be a strong enough candidate?
Lets hope its not Cruz, or we shall lose again.

[TheRealThing]

Lets hope the Repubs can distance themselves from this tea party outlook. Im not necessarily against anything, but the views of the tea party are horrible.
The Repubs have 3 years to find a strong candidate. I wonder if there will be a strong enough candidate?
Lets hope its not Cruz, or we shall lose again.

Yeah, I think the basic thrust of the so-called tea party was to call attention to the fact that state and federal government is answerable to the people. They are a little overboard but, had John Q Public not gotten so lazy he couldn't be bothered to even show up at the polls, we likely wouldn't have needed the tea party to wake us up. I can see a place for their legacy to influence folks to actually engage in their solemn duty to self govern and be actively engaged in what goes on in Washington as an example now and in the future. In fact, the massive civics lesson we see going on should have awakened enough folks so as to restore some measure of accountability from those in elective office. Honestly, I don't see a bit of accountability from the Democratic leadership. Reid et-al are boasting great things and making incredible threats right now.

Part of the problem is that the general populace are still willing to accept the DNC generated definition of who and what people are, instead of thinking for themselves. None the less, it is probably time for Republicans to unite under a slightly right of center platform and live to fight another day. Like Tuesday, November 4th, 2014 for example. If I had to pick my poison, I'd rather err on the side of a strict interpretation of the US Constitution, than to go totally ape liberal. Don't forget. Those guys give the president all kinds of grief because he isn't left enough.

Frankly, I don't know how we could have come up with a better candidate than Mitt Romney and we lost with him. I love the guy and he'd have made a very good president. I guarantee you he wouldn't have left folks who did not agree with his political goals, out in the cold (the left), the way I believe Mr Obama has done to the Christian right. Under a Romney presidency, we would not have come within miles of the threat of a government shut down. And, the rest of the world would not be laughing us to scorn, asking themselves why they ever thought America was so grand.

Great shame and embarrassment has been visited upon our land thanks to the airing of so much of our dirty laundry. Where once statesmanship and respect once trod the hallowed halls, now exists chaos, contempt and intemperance. The thought of a default should never have been planted in the minds of every one of this planet's inhabitant's by any American, much less the president of the United States. The perception of our country's greatness is what keeps the world willing to invest their money in our economy. But no, this bunch wants to involve the whole world in this political food fight. And, as with any food fight, the participants are all made to look stupid. For a president and the Senate to say they refuse to negotiate with the House, which has clear constitutional authority over the US treasury, is a disgrace which I believe defies description. Even if one takes the position that the Republicans should not have chosen to try to defund ObamaCare, the threats were flying going in which, put the House in a very bad position. To me, if the Dems in the Senate really cared about the people and the health of our system of government, they would have negotiated their heads off if need be to spare us this great disgrace.

[RunItUpTheGut]

^
I agree with that 100%.
First, I understand the point of the tea party and there purpose, but in order for Repubs to win in 2016, i think its going to take a lot of help from independents and a little help from dems.
Secondly, I would give anything if Romney had one. I truly believe he would have us heading in the right direction. Just shows how messed up this countries priorities are. Vote for a guy thats all about destroying health care, getting gays married, legalizing illiegals, and stopping the mythical global warming, or a guy with a business background whos number one priority was the economy and putting people back to work.

Its almost funny when you think about it.

[SKINNYPIG]

The "fundamental transformation" of the greatest country on earth has begun and shows no signs of slowing down. With a firm grip on the media and now healthcare, the speed of the transformation will pick up. It's over folks, hold on the best you can as you wait for the final crumble to fall. Our country will some day return to its glory but, the masses WILL suffer greatly. Thanks to us it will be our children and grandchildren that get get the brunt of it.

"We the People" now fall for EVERY sublime message spewed from media and the mealy mouths of self serving politicians. We think more highly of cockroaches than we do of our congress yet elect 90% of them back into office. Again, it's over folks.

I'm sick of listening to the pundits that gather on party lines to place blame. "We the People" are the ones in control of this country and we have failed miserably. "We the People" are getting PRECISELY what we deserve. For a long while...It is over!

[TheRealThing]

The "fundamental transformation" of the greatest country on earth has begun and shows no signs of slowing down. With a firm grip on the media and now healthcare, the speed of the transformation will pick up. It's over folks, hold on the best you can as you wait for the final crumble to fall. Our country will some day return to its glory but, the masses WILL suffer greatly. Thanks to us it will be our children and grandchildren that get get the brunt of it.

"We the People" now fall for EVERY sublime message spewed from media and the mealy mouths of self serving politicians. We think more highly of cockroaches than we do of our congress yet elect 90% of them back into office. Again, it's over folks.

I'm sick of listening to the pundits that gather on party lines to place blame. "We the People" are the ones in control of this country and we have failed miserably. "We the People" are getting PRECISELY what we deserve. For a long while...It is over!

“When the people find that they can vote themselves money that will herald the end of the republic.”
[SIZE="3"]
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." [/SIZE]
― Benjamin Franklin

And here IMO, is the real shame. Baby boomers know better but, still persist in their dogged insistence to vote democratic in sufficient numbers so as to have derailed Mitt Romney's run for president. If those who fought for this land in WW2, choose to be misled in the face of all evidence to the contrary because of some misguided allegiance to a party (the democrats), then it is over. The democrats are overrun by liberal/progressives. If the folks drawing social security checks will not see that, I believe your analysis is essentially correct.

[Hoot Gibson]

Lets hope the Repubs can distance themselves from this tea party outlook. Im not necessarily against anything, but the views of the tea party are horrible.
The Repubs have 3 years to find a strong candidate. I wonder if there will be a strong enough candidate?
Lets hope its not Cruz, or we shall lose again.

If the Republican Party takes your advice - and there is a pretty good chance that they will, then the GOP might as well fold up its tent and make the merger with the Democrats official and move into their "big tent."

Cruz is the Ronald Reagan of this generation and that is why the Republican Party moderates (a/k/a the "Rockefeller" wing and the "neo-cons") is trying so hard to destroy him. There is not much point in winning elections is what you end up with is a party full of Bush IIIs and other RINOs like Chris Christie.

If you have not personally taken time to listen to Cruz speak at any length, then you owe it to yourself to do so before you dismiss him as a crazy person. The Democrats are scared to death of Ted Cruz and so is the Republican establishment. The reason for their fear is that they know that Cruz is very electable and they do not want to break the string of big government guys in the White House. A Cruz candidacy would also be very bad for Obama's country club Republican buddies in Congress like Boehner, because Cruz will run against Congress, as well as the White House as a Washington outsider.

You can either get on the Cruz bandwagon now or wait until it really gets rolling, but it will be a disaster for Republicans is they nominate another RINO to run. That is the real danger for Republicans - nominating another big-government candidate who will depress turnout. I am finished voting for the lesser of two evils. If Republicans want my vote from now on, then they are going to have to earn it.

[vector]

If the Republican Party takes your advice - and there is a pretty good chance that they will, then the GOP might as well fold up its tent and make the merger with the Democrats official and move into their "big tent."

Cruz is the Ronald Reagan of this generation and that is why the Republican Party moderates (a/k/a the "Rockefeller" wing and the "neo-cons") is trying so hard to destroy him. There is not much point in winning elections is what you end up with is a party full of Bush IIIs and other RINOs like Chris Christie.

If you have not personally taken time to listen to Cruz speak at any length, then you owe it to yourself to do so before you dismiss him as a crazy person. The Democrats are scared to death of Ted Cruz and so is the Republican establishment. The reason for their fear is that they know that Cruz is very electable and they do not want to break the string of big government guys in the White House. A Cruz candidacy would also be very bad for Obama's country club Republican buddies in Congress like Boehner, because Cruz will run against Congress, as well as the White House as a Washington outsider.

You can either get on the Cruz bandwagon now or wait until it really gets rolling, but it will be a disaster for Republicans is they nominate another RINO to run. That is the real danger for Republicans - nominating another big-government candidate who will depress turnout. I am finished voting for the lesser of two evils. If Republicans want my vote from now on, then they are going to have to earn it.

I sure hope cruz gets the republican Nomination in 2016

[Hoot Gibson]

I sure hope cruz gets the republican Nomination in 2016

I am sure that Sen. Cruz appreciates your support.

[SKINNYPIG]

“When the people find that they can vote themselves money that will herald the end of the republic.”
[SIZE="3"]
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." [/SIZE]
― Benjamin Franklin

And here IMO, is the real shame. Baby boomers know better but, still persist in their dogged insistence to vote democratic in sufficient numbers so as to have derailed Mitt Romney's run for president. If those who fought for this land in WW2, choose to be misled in the face of all evidence to the contrary because of some misguided allegiance to a party (the democrats), then it is over. The democrats are overrun by liberal/progressives. If the folks drawing social security checks will not see that, I believe your analysis is essentially correct.

I sure hope cruz gets the republican Nomination in 2016

If the Republican Party takes your advice - and there is a pretty good chance that they will, then the GOP might as well fold up its tent and make the merger with the Democrats official and move into their "big tent."

Cruz is the Ronald Reagan of this generation and that is why the Republican Party moderates (a/k/a the "Rockefeller" wing and the "neo-cons") is trying so hard to destroy him. There is not much point in winning elections is what you end up with is a party full of Bush IIIs and other RINOs like Chris Christie.

If you have not personally taken time to listen to Cruz speak at any length, then you owe it to yourself to do so before you dismiss him as a crazy person. The Democrats are scared to death of Ted Cruz and so is the Republican establishment. The reason for their fear is that they know that Cruz is very electable and they do not want to break the string of big government guys in the White House. A Cruz candidacy would also be very bad for Obama's country club Republican buddies in Congress like Boehner, because Cruz will run against Congress, as well as the White House as a Washington outsider.

You can either get on the Cruz bandwagon now or wait until it really gets rolling, but it will be a disaster for Republicans is they nominate another RINO to run. That is the real danger for Republicans - nominating another big-government candidate who will depress turnout. I am finished voting for the lesser of two evils. If Republicans want my vote from now on, then they are going to have to earn it.

The "left", democrats and liberals have tattooed their biggest fear square in the middle of their foreheads...Ted Cruz. Will republicans be smart enough to nominate Cruz or will most of them continue to join in with the rest of the fools?

I hope and pray I'm wrong but, if I had to bet on it, my money goes on "We the Republicans" nominate another loser.

Sorry about the negativity but, the writing is on the wall. It is over.

[TheRealThing]

I sure hope cruz gets the republican Nomination in 2016

Duh yeah, Cruz is so stoopid. nicker:


PS---- "I am not reading this talking point." Democrats is fer the werkin man!

[Hoot Gibson]

The "left", democrats and liberals have tattooed their biggest fear square in the middle of their foreheads...Ted Cruz. Will republicans be smart enough to nominate Cruz or will most of them continue to join in with the rest of the fools?

I hope and pray I'm wrong but, if I had to bet on it, my money goes on "We the Republicans" nominate another loser.

Sorry about the negativity but, the writing is on the wall. It is over.

If conservatives refuse to buy into the mainstream media (including Fox), Democrats, and liberal Republicans' attempt to portray Cruz as a kook, then the nomination will be Cruz's to lose. Wherever Cruz campaigns and has an opportunity to speak directly to people, he moves to the top of the polls. The last thing in the world any of the other potential Republican candidates want to do is engage in a real debate with Ted Cruz. He is that good.

The Republican establishment will do everything that it can to ensure that other candidates do not have to engage in a real debate with Cruz. They will stage Twitter debates, Townhall meetings, and anything else that they can to protect Christie, Bush III, and other RINOs from undergoing a face to face comparison with Ted Cruz. That is the only shot that they have of keeping Cruz from being the 2016 nominee for president. In a fair contest, he will not lose.

[TheRealThing]

If conservatives refuse to buy into the mainstream media (including Fox), Democrats, and liberal Republicans' attempt to portray Cruz as a kook, then the nomination will be Cruz's to lose. Wherever Cruz campaigns and has an opportunity to speak directly to people, he moves to the top of the polls. The last thing in the world any of the other potential Republican candidates want to do is engage in a real debate with Ted Cruz. He is that good.

The Republican establishment will do everything that it can to ensure that other candidates do not have to engage in a real debate with Cruz. They will stage Twitter debates, Townhall meetings, and anything else that they can to protect Christie, Bush III, and other RINOs from undergoing a face to face comparison with Ted Cruz. That is the only shot that they have of keeping Cruz from being the 2016 nominee for president. In a fair contest, he will not lose.

I will never forget that moment in the second debate between Romney and Obama when, through the collaborative effort of the liberal media and the Obama campaign, Romney was taken completely off his stride. Candace Crowley had foreknowledge as did every other democratic supporter, that Barack was vulnerable on the issue of Benghazi and the video. But the left was not about to allow the president to fall on his face in yet another debate with Romney. Candace was prepared to rush to Obama's rescue when the issue of Benghazi came up as she so famously did. Here is an assessment of the aftermath of the second debate; ARTICLE EXCERPT--- "We're done with the second presidential debate, but it was apparent 45 minutes in, that between the questions Crowley chose and her handling of who was allowed to speak and when, that this debate was a total and complete setup to rehabilitate Barack Obama." END EXCERPT--- http:// http://www.breitbart.com/Big-J...fact-check

I have been in that kind of situation, and I can tell you first hand. The 'set up' is a devastatingly effective tool in the hand of those without conscience. Lawyers do it all the time because when used in the right way, it's success rate is nearly 100%. That surprise blow of betrayal is the punch that devastates, and always makes a presenter appear to struggle to regain his footing and is very hard to overcome. To avoid the effectiveness of the tactic, one must anticipate it's arrival in a state of expectation, sort of viewing it as it were a welcomed challenge. Romney is an eloquent speaker and a great man who commands awe in any gathering. The Al Smith Dinner comes to mind as example, when Romney ripped one liner after one liner. Considering Obama has chosen to keep funding PBS and deny death benefits to grieving war widows I thought I'd put up this one, “In the spirit of sesame Street, the president’s remarks tonight are brought to you by the letter O and the number $16 trillion.” LOL, now that was funny.

Saying all that, in remembrance of the pre election expectations for new lows in dirty political campaigns, which were in fact realized all too vividly during the last campaign and, they are coming again. So, I hope Ted will be ready because by comparison as was so painfully demonstrated in the second debate, a truly great man of renown normally comfortable while in front of any conceivable audience, was taken down by simple deceit. When in front of millions, it is a hard thing to recover from a misstep once finally presented with the opportunity to shoot your big gun. He was all-in and preparing to substantiate his charge when Crowley received her cue to make her supportive remarks for the president. It is a mistake is to ever give the benefit of doubt where lieberals are concerned. They can and will do whatever they have to, in order to win. Obama had no record to run on, and no successes to tout. All he had was a mountain of mud to sling and, even that was imported. And, if anybody thinks Bill and Hill must in any way take a back seat to the present administration when it comes to a full bag of lawyerly tricks, they need to consider her performance on the Hill regarding her involvement in Benghazi.

Even now, after all the crying and dying, they still cite the video with regularity. My concern is whether or not the contest is fair. IMO, the last one wasn't.

[TheRealThing]

^FOX news has become the face of the lesser among the evils, if you ask me. Seemingly nobody gets it. The Republicans can't recognize that backing down in the past is what has steeled the nerve of this president and Democratic leadership to withstand their present effort to restore the will of the people in government. I mean, how stupid have folks become? The Obama administration is in charge right now. Every single closure of government was ordered by a Democrat under the authority of this administration. In other words, not one Republican has ordered the closure of so much as one roadside rest area. And yet, polls supposedly suggest that everybody blames Republicans, even though passing 17 on the trillions-O-meter will occur in a matter of days. Journalist Bob Schieffer said "that he has been told off the record that Democrats were close to accepting a deal late Thursday and early Friday, but that once an NBC/Wall Street Journal poll was released that showed Republicans getting most of the blame for the government shutdown, "far left" Democrats got more backbone."
http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/schieff...z2hiHASuJx

So, I'm supposed to believe that the Democrats have the good of the people in mind when I see that they are willing to push this thing just as far as current polls suggest they can? Whatever happened to the "common good"?

One thing that kills me about the veteran interviews conducted in and around the closed monuments in DC, of which FOX chooses to actually air, is that every one of them take a middle ground line with regard to their criticisms. Not once, has any criticism of Democratic leadership crossed FOX air. I've talked to a lot of people, some of whom were vets, who have plenty of problem with Harry Reid, and the runaway debt. But, as long as the media fuel the expectations that the Republicans are going to eat this one too, public opinion being the product of propaganda that it is, that very well may be the socially engineered outcome.

I watch FOX because I am beset by overwhelming urges to throw up less often than I would be on the liberal all-in networks. However, I am no big fan of FOX either, as they continue their slide toward the left for the sake of ratings.

FWIW, if Republicans completely cave this time, as it appears they are about to do, they might as well turn in their Congressional ID's. If the tactic of not negotiating is a success for the Dems in this current mess, it may well rise to become the new default nuclear option. So the next time we have to go through all this stonewalling, things will only be much worse and a much harder proposition as the Dems are really stroking their beards right now. The irony is that on the one hand these polls are supposedly not to live and die by, and yet in this case history may judge that they are what actually pushed the US over that fiscal cliff we keep hearing about. Not paying our bills ala the rhetoric of the left will actually happen once our debt surpasses our ability to repay. Heck, who's to say that hasn't already happened? Oh well, according to typical left wing rationale we might as well party as long as we can, right?

[vector]

I will never forget that moment in the second debate between Romney and Obama when, through the collaborative effort of the liberal media and the Obama campaign, Romney was taken completely off his stride. Candace Crowley had foreknowledge as did every other democratic supporter, that Barack was vulnerable on the issue of Benghazi and the video. But the left was not about to allow the president to fall on his face in yet another debate with Romney. Candace was prepared to rush to Obama's rescue when the issue of Benghazi came up as she so famously did. Here is an assessment of the aftermath of the second debate; ARTICLE EXCERPT--- "We're done with the second presidential debate, but it was apparent 45 minutes in, that between the questions Crowley chose and her handling of who was allowed to speak and when, that this debate was a total and complete setup to rehabilitate Barack Obama." END EXCERPT--- http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/...fact-check

I have been in that kind of situation, and I can tell you first hand. The 'set up' is a devastatingly effective tool in the hand of those without conscience. Lawyers do it all the time because when used in the right way, it's success rate is nearly 100%. That surprise blow of betrayal is the punch that devastates, and always makes a presenter appear to struggle to regain his footing and is very hard to overcome. To avoid the effectiveness of the tactic, one must anticipate it's arrival in a state of expectation, sort of viewing it as it were a welcomed challenge. Romney is an eloquent speaker and a great man who commands awe in any gathering. The Al Smith Dinner comes to mind as example, when Romney ripped one liner after one liner. Considering Obama has chosen to keep funding PBS and deny death benefits to grieving war widows I thought I'd put up this one, “In the spirit of sesame Street, the president’s remarks tonight are brought to you by the letter O and the number $16 trillion.” LOL, now that was funny.

Saying all that, in remembrance of the pre election expectations for new lows in dirty political campaigns, which were in fact realized all too vividly during the last campaign and, they are coming again. So, I hope Ted will be ready because by comparison as was so painfully demonstrated in the second debate, a truly great man of renown normally comfortable while in front of any conceivable audience, was taken down by simple deceit. When in front of millions, it is a hard thing to recover from a misstep once finally presented with the opportunity to shoot your big gun. He was all-in and preparing to substantiate his charge when Crowley received her cue to make her supportive remarks for the president. It is a mistake is to ever give the benefit of doubt where lieberals are concerned. They can and will do whatever they have to, in order to win. Obama had no record to run on, and no successes to tout. All he had was a mountain of mud to sling and, even that was imported. And, if anybody thinks Bill and Hill must in any way take a back seat to the present administration when it comes to a full bag of lawyerly tricks, they need to consider her performance on the Hill regarding her involvement in Benghazi.

Even now, after all the crying and dying, they still cite the video with regularity. My concern is whether or not the contest is fair. IMO, the last one wasn't.

Romney lost get over it

[vector]

^FOX news has become the face of the lesser among the evils, if you ask me. Seemingly nobody gets it. The Republicans can't recognize that backing down in the past is what has steeled the nerve of this president and Democratic leadership to withstand their present effort to restore the will of the people in government. I mean, how stupid have folks become? The Obama administration is in charge right now. Every single closure of government was ordered by a Democrat under the authority of this administration. In other words, not one Republican has ordered the closure of so much as one roadside rest area. And yet, polls supposedly suggest that everybody blames Republicans, even though passing 17 on the trillions-O-meter will occur in a matter of days. Journalist Bob Schieffer said "that he has been told off the record that Democrats were close to accepting a deal late Thursday and early Friday, but that once an NBC/Wall Street Journal poll was released that showed Republicans getting most of the blame for the government shutdown, "far left" Democrats got more backbone."
http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/schieff...z2hiHASuJx

So, I'm supposed to believe that the Democrats have the good of the people in mind when I see that they are willing to push this thing just as far as current polls suggest they can? Whatever happened to the "common good"?

One thing that kills me about the veteran interviews conducted in and around the closed monuments in DC, of which FOX chooses to actually air, is that every one of them take a middle ground line with regard to their criticisms. Not once, has any criticism of Democratic leadership crossed FOX air. I've talked to a lot of people, some of whom were vets, who have plenty of problem with Harry Reid, and the runaway debt. But, as long as the media fuel the expectations that the Republicans are going to eat this one too, public opinion being the product of propaganda that it is, that very well may be the socially engineered outcome.

I watch FOX because I am beset by overwhelming urges to throw up less often than I would be on the liberal all-in networks. However, I am no big fan of FOX either, as they continue their slide toward the left for the sake of ratings.

FWIW, if Republicans completely cave this time, as it appears they are about to do, they might as well turn in their Congressional ID's. If the tactic of not negotiating is a success for the Dems in this current mess, it may well rise to become the new default nuclear option. So the next time we have to go through all this stonewalling, things will only be much worse and a much harder proposition as the Dems are really stroking their beards right now. The irony is that on the one hand these polls are supposedly not to live and die by, and yet in this case history may judge that they are what actually pushed the US over that fiscal cliff we keep hearing about. Not paying our bills ala the rhetoric of the left will actually happen once our debt surpasses our ability to repay. Heck, who's to say that hasn't already happened? Oh well, according to typical left wing rationale we might as well party as long as we can, right?

I watch FOX :dudecomeon:

[Hoot Gibson]

Romney lost get over it

How does it make you feel responding to long, well written, logical posts with single poorly constructed sentences with no punctuation? Lazy? Stupid? Both? Try imagining yourself reading your posts from the perspective of an intelligent, well educated reader. What is your opinion of your work now? Keep in mind that this was one of your better efforts. There are no misspelled words and you correctly capitalized the only proper noun in the "sentence."

[RunItUpTheGut]

If the Republican Party takes your advice - and there is a pretty good chance that they will, then the GOP might as well fold up its tent and make the merger with the Democrats official and move into their "big tent."

Cruz is the Ronald Reagan of this generation and that is why the Republican Party moderates (a/k/a the "Rockefeller" wing and the "neo-cons") is trying so hard to destroy him. There is not much point in winning elections is what you end up with is a party full of Bush IIIs and other RINOs like Chris Christie.

If you have not personally taken time to listen to Cruz speak at any length, then you owe it to yourself to do so before you dismiss him as a crazy person. The Democrats are scared to death of Ted Cruz and so is the Republican establishment. The reason for their fear is that they know that Cruz is very electable and they do not want to break the string of big government guys in the White House. A Cruz candidacy would also be very bad for Obama's country club Republican buddies in Congress like Boehner, because Cruz will run against Congress, as well as the White House as a Washington outsider.

You can either get on the Cruz bandwagon now or wait until it really gets rolling, but it will be a disaster for Republicans is they nominate another RINO to run. That is the real danger for Republicans - nominating another big-government candidate who will depress turnout. I am finished voting for the lesser of two evils. If Republicans want my vote from now on, then they are going to have to earn it.

I never said I didn't like Cruz or any tea partier for that matter.
I simply dont think he win the white house. Theres a lot of time for that to change, but the media is already giving people the wrong attitude towards him and its only going to persuade people from here on out.
I like Cruz, I think he would be a good choice, but it all comes down to who would win. Electing someone like Mccain, or a RINO like you say, will do us no good.

[Hoot Gibson]

If Republicans let Karl Rove and the media pick their nominee again, they will lose again. The media and the Bushes hated Ronald Reagan. Being hated by liberals and RINOS is a good things IMO.

[TheRealThing]

If Republicans let Karl Rove and the media pick their nominee again, they will lose again. The media and the Bushes hated Ronald Reagan. Being hated by liberals and RINOS is a good things IMO.

The Bushes like so many in the Senate and a relative few in the House, consider themselves to be the in-crowd. Which is why shallow and chinless Republicans favor turning to Jeb Bush as a viable candidate. Like members of the House of Lords in the British Parliament, they sort of think of themselves as belonging by birth to kind of American governmental aristocracy. I mean, we had George H and George W, why not cast our lot with Jeb, right? LOL

Ronald Reagan understood basic principles of our constitution and was willing to administrate to the best of his understanding of those principles. Not concerned whether the acts of cabinet members would somehow overshadow his own office, Mr Reagan wisely appointed sagely experienced and capable folks to those critical posts. In other words, he surrounded himself with good people and then he trusted their judgment. Which was 180 degrees in opposition to the liberal freak show, which has characterized the federal government of late.

Rove reminds me of John McCain, his mouth ruins the rest of him.