[Real Badman]

They have conceal and carry permits

http://insider.foxnews.com/2015/03/07/he...un-permits

I've honestly never understood the 2nd amendment issue. You can kill a person with just about any household item. Things are getting ridiculous.

[Harry Rex Vonner]

Poor article. There is a great difference between being a foster parent and adopting. The article goes back and forth between two completely different concepts and really gives nothing of value to the reader.

I am a great believer in the Second Amendment. I am also the holder of a concealed carry permit. Having said that, if this couple really wants to either be foster parents or adopting parents, they must follow the guidelines set forth by the applicable state bureau. In my opinion, they need to comply with the rules or give up their efforts. To be honest, it makes one wonder just how devoted this couple is to being parental figures. Possibly they are more interested in carrying weapons.

At one time, prior to my semi-retirement from the legal profession, I was considered the expert in regard to adoptions, terminations of parental rights, and foster situations in my part of the Commonwealth. Thus, I know the subject from personal involvement.

[RunItUpTheGut]

But the gays can come in an adopt them and teach them about sodomy.

[Harry Rex Vonner]

But the gays can come in an adopt them and teach them about sodomy.

Excellent point. It demonstrates the level to which our moral standards in the country have deteriorated. It is a sad sign of the times. Hillary Rodham, if she follows the reprobate, Obama, will, most likely, seal the tomb.

However, I do understand the gun issue in regard to foster parents and foster children. Many of these children are teenagers rather than preschool or elementary age. Many have a juvenile record. Most all have deadbeats as "parents".

[TheRealThing]

Excellent point. It demonstrates the level to which our moral standards in the country have deteriorated. It is a sad sign of the times. Hillary Rodham, if she follows the reprobate, Obama, will, most likely, seal the tomb.

However, I do understand the gun issue in regard to foster parents and foster children. Many of these children are teenagers rather than preschool or elementary age. Many have a juvenile record. Most all have deadbeats as "parents".

I'd say the government is all too aware about the level of incompetence for a lot of these foster parents, (though many are salt of the earth). They get money from the state for being foster parents, do they not?

[Harry Rex Vonner]

I'd say the government is all too aware about the level of incompetence for a lot of these foster parents, (though many are salt of the earth). They get money from the state for being foster parents, do they not?

Indeed they get monthly checks for each child that they have in their homes. I'll agree that many are "salt of the earth". However, many are in it to supplement their incomes and care nothing about the children other than as income support. To be honest the foster children are at the mercy of the foster parents. The less that is actually spent on the children for food, clothing, etc., the more "surplus" that there is for the foster parents.

Still, most all of these foster homes offer a better environment than is present with their legal parent or parents. As I posted earlier, most of these legal "parents" are deadbeats (and I am being kind). Thus, the state workers close their eyes to much since the situation is at least a little better than it would be at "home" for these children.

Unfair? Of course. But, we all learn that there is nothing fair in this life. When we read that all are created equal, we need to understand that that merely means that all come into this imperfect world in pretty much the same manner. Equality ends with birth. And that analysis comes from an ultra conservative with traditional Christian, though often shaky, beliefs.

[TheRealThing]

Indeed they get monthly checks for each child that they have in their homes. I'll agree that many are "salt of the earth". However, many are in it to supplement their incomes and care nothing about the children other than as income support. To be honest the foster children are at the mercy of the foster parents. The less that is actually spent on the children for food, clothing, etc., the more "surplus" that there is for the foster parents.

Still, most all of these foster homes offer a better environment than is present with their legal parent or parents. As I posted earlier, most of these legal "parents" are deadbeats (and I am being kind). Thus, the state workers close their eyes to much since the situation is at least a little better than it would be at "home" for these children.

Unfair? Of course. But, we all learn that there is nothing fair in this life. When we read that all are created equal, we need to understand that that merely means that all come into this imperfect world in pretty much the same manner. Equality ends with birth. And that analysis comes from an ultra conservative with traditional Christian, though often shaky, beliefs.

Well, I would like to think I know pretty much exactly what you're talking about. This whole world is shaky as the result of sin. And, though some men can factually say they are saved, all of us are none the less naturally prone to err, make stupid decisions and all manner of mistakes. I believe the idea God would have us share with regard to ourselves is that whether saved or lost, all men are hopelessly flawed. Mankind is fallen en-toto. Even the great Apostle Paul said he was the "chief among sinners", and he often found himself doing what he shouldn't do and not doing what he should do.

Only the wisest among us, ever come to a rational acceptance of his own shortcomings. That I believe is the foundation of the wisdom, the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom and, one certainly cannot fear God if he is proud. That is why at the Judgment, all that we can offer in defense of our life is the blood of Christ. We have nothing else He could possibly be interested in to offer.

[Harry Rex Vonner]

I have heard your analysis many times from Baptist preachers. It comes right from the fundamental textbook. However, I believe that it is quite difficult to expect a black teenager of borderline intelligence who was born to a dope head mother and an absent father, who has lived in a world of drugs, alcohol, and crime all his/her life, who has been in and out of the juvenile system many times, who goes to bed hungry most nights, and who is shunned as a lesser soul by his/her classmates and teachers at school to really grab on to the idea that God loves him/her. Words tend to be meaningless and rightfully so, I believe.

On the other hand, for those who live in opposite situations and are only troubled by deciding whether to shop for the new clothes at Banana Republic or American Eagle, accepting the fact of God's love is rather easy.

Now, we can place all the blame for inequities on flawed human beings. Nonetheless, if honest, we must have many unanswered questions and being told that we are not to question "God's Plan" really doesn't suffice.

[TheRealThing]

^^ None the less, salvation is available to all. Kings, paupers and everybody in between. That is what I believe the framers referred to when they recognized that all men are Created equal, and that further, the unalienable rights granted all men come from the hand of God.

How each man finds his way to God through grace, is according to His plan and I can accept that having found the way myself. And believe me when I tell you, mine were not issues involving the Banana Republic or American Eagle. :biggrin:

[Harry Rex Vonner]

^^ None the less, salvation is available to all. Kings, paupers and everybody in between. That is what I believe the framers referred to when they recognized that all men are Created equal, and that further, the unalienable rights granted all men come from the hand of God.

How each man finds his way to God through grace, is according to His plan and I can accept that having found the way myself. And believe me when I tell you, mine were not issues involving the Banana Republic or American Eagle. :biggrin:

From your post, I suspect that you are not familiar with the state of life of those described in my first paragraph. And, I doubt that the framers were referring to salvation when they penned their words. Unalienable rights are God given rights as stated by the framers. The first right mentioned is the right to life. Our country has chosen to ignore that right. I feel sure the framers would be disgusted with how all groups are allowing their words to be misinterpreted.

But, that is modern day America. Those who abandon basic beliefs for convenience flourish and run the show and those who claim to be Christians sit in pews wearing blinders and plan for the next youth event, seniors trip, or potluck dinner. I would hope, and assume, God will hold both groups equally responsible for all the carnage.

[TheRealThing]

From your post, I suspect that you are not familiar with the state of life of those described in my first paragraph. And, I doubt that the framers were referring to salvation when they penned their words. Unalienable rights are God given rights as stated by the framers. The first right mentioned is the right to life. Our country has chosen to ignore that right. I feel sure the framers would be disgusted with how all groups are allowing their words to be misinterpreted.

But, that is modern day America. Those who abandon basic beliefs for convenience flourish and run the show and those who claim to be Christians sit in pews wearing blinders and plan for the next youth event, seniors trip, or potluck dinner. I would hope, and assume, God will hold both groups equally responsible for all the carnage.

I came up hard, Harry. I realized early on that if I were to have a portion of this world's goods, house, car and self sufficiency, it would certainly only come by working.

I respectfully disagree to some extent about the intentions of the framers. When Thomas Jefferson said that "All men are Created equal" his was not a reference to US or English law, it was in fact the creation of man and this universe. Created with rights that other men ought not to try to take away, (but obviously did and still do anyway). Further, that we have certain unalienable rights endowed upon us by that Creator. In citing those two situations, Jefferson is drawing upon the authority of God Almighty for his justification in going over the head of King George in declaring the United States and it's citizens free of the his tyranny.

We stand therefore with certain rights granted to us by said Creator. And, since The Creator's stated interest in man revolves ultimately around man's acceptance or rejection of His Son, Who sacrificed His life on the cross for man, I believe it is safe to assume that is at least in part what Jefferson was alluding to. It certainly belongs in that line of thought. And though, it was never Jefferson's intent to set up US law in a theocratical framework, US law is none the less based on the founder's understanding of the 10 commandments.

[Harry Rex Vonner]

I came up hard, Harry. I realized early on that if I were to have a portion of this world's goods, house, car and self sufficiency, it would certainly only come by working.

I respectfully disagree to some extent about the intentions of the framers. When Thomas Jefferson said that "All men are Created equal" his was not a reference to US or English law, it was in fact the creation of man and this universe. Created with rights that other men ought not to try to take away, (but obviously did and still do anyway). Further, that we have certain unalienable rights endowed upon us by that Creator. In citing those two situations, Jefferson is drawing upon the authority of God Almighty for his justification in going over the head of King George in declaring the United States and it's citizens free of the his tyranny.

We stand therefore with certain rights granted to us by said Creator. And, since The Creator's stated interest in man revolves ultimately around man's acceptance or rejection of His Son, Who sacrificed His life on the cross for man, I believe it is safe to assume that is at least in part what Jefferson was alluding to. It certainly belongs in that line of thought. And though, it was never Jefferson's intent to set up US law in a theocratical framework, US law is none the less based on the founder's understanding of the 10 commandments.

You make some fine points and I agree that much of the motivation of the framers was based on spiritual beliefs. Unfortunately, much of that foundation has been destroyed through new creations and broad interpretations of the text of the founding documents. And, in reality, the First Amendment provides for freedom from religion as well as freedom of religion. So, when those who are not spiritual push their agenda endlessly and those with strong spiritual beliefs do nothing to combat the growing tide, I believe both groups are equally guilty and both groups will be held accountable. The framers, using god's laws as a blueprint, gave us great documents to be used as the foundation and backbone of our republic. We have bastardized the principles set forth in those documents.

I often use the example of the man who plants a garden in the spring and then prays endlessly every day for a good harvest. At the time of harvest, he has no crop because he didn't hoe, weed, and water his garden. In other words, he was passive as are most churches and their members. We allow evil and our reaction is to either close our eyes or to pray and we do nothing else. It isn't working well, is it?

[TheRealThing]

You make some fine points and I agree that much of the motivation of the framers was based on spiritual beliefs. Unfortunately, much of that foundation has been destroyed through new creations and broad interpretations of the text of the founding documents. And, in reality, the First Amendment provides for freedom from religion as well as freedom of religion. So, when those who are not spiritual push their agenda endlessly and those with strong spiritual beliefs do nothing to combat the growing tide, I believe both groups are equally guilty and both groups will be held accountable. The framers, using god's laws as a blueprint, gave us great documents to be used as the foundation and backbone of our republic. We have bastardized the principles set forth in those documents.

I often use the example of the man who plants a garden in the spring and then prays endlessly every day for a good harvest. At the time of harvest, he has no crop because he didn't hoe, weed, and water his garden. In other words, he was passive as are most churches and their members. We allow evil and our reaction is to either close our eyes or to pray and we do nothing else. It isn't working well, is it?

LOL well, we don't find ourselves here at this particular junction in history because we are innocent, that's for sure. The ills that have overtaken us are the wages of sloth.

[Truth]

LOL well, we don't find ourselves here at this particular junction in history because we are innocent, that's for sure. The ills that have overtaken us are the wages of sloth.

You are using the usual Baptist line. That is fine. You may be right. But, I'd still like to hear your opinion on the issues raised in my earlier post concerning the social atmosphere of most churches. I get the idea that we are all worthless parasites.

[Harry Rex Vonner]

I tend to agree with Truth and thank him/her for his/her pm. My purpose is not to attack Christians who have their beliefs sealed in concrete. I am merely stating that absolute faith in the light of what goes on in the world is not an easy concept. Saying that we humans are worthless and slothful doesn't suffice- particularly to those who are suffering with no relief but promises of a better tomorrow somewhere down the line.

[TheRealThing]

You are using the usual Baptist line. That is fine. You may be right. But, I'd still like to hear your opinion on the issues raised in my earlier post concerning the social atmosphere of most churches. I get the idea that we are all worthless parasites.

To be perfectly honest with you Truth, I am not aware of any posts you have made with regard to the social atmosphere in most Churches.

But, let me explain my position according to the gist of your 'quoted' post as I perceive it.

In order for man to choose to submit to God's authority, he would necessarily need an alternative from which to choose, correct? On the one hand we can choose to sort of do things like Frank Sinatra, my way. On the other, we can choose to repent before God, throwing ourselves on His tender mercies thanks to the gift of our Lord's substitutionary death on the cross.

Our lifeline to our Lord, that being our conscience, is a gift as well. God speaks to all through the conscience, revealing His presence and the need for all men to approach Him through repentance and faith. Hence, when we do things that are wrong, our conscience alarm goes off and we feel guilt, especially where our relationship to Him (or lack of it) is concerned. For example, I have never met a man that did not intend to make things right with God at some point during his life. All men fall into one of two groups, the saved or the lost. Since all men have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, all of those who are saved derive from among those who are not. The irony I have spoken about is the fact that even though some men are saved, they still share an unhappy trait with those who are not. They still sin, and their nature is still sinful even though the Lord's shed blood covers that sin and though His righteousness is imputed to the saved at the time of their conversion.

The Church was instituted by Christ Himself as modeled in the Book of Acts. There we see the operation of the local Church. The answer for whom then is worthy to come, is found in Matthew 28:18-20 (KJV)
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

So, if the Churches you cite are acting in a way that discourages people in any way from seeking Christ, they're 100% wrong. However, at the judgment each man is judged according to only one qualifier where it comes to salvation. That being whether or not one has accepted Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. Christian then, will either receive a reward or they will lose their reward depending on their level of faithfulness and obedience. Men do judge each other though they are in no case worthy to do so as John 3:16 (KJV) reveals,
"16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." Churches' social atmosphere not withstanding.

[TheRealThing]

I tend to agree with Truth and thank him/her for his/her pm. My purpose is not to attack Christians who have their beliefs sealed in concrete. I am merely stating that absolute faith in the light of what goes on in the world is not an easy concept. Saying that we humans are worthless and slothful doesn't suffice- particularly to those who are suffering with no relief but promises of a better tomorrow somewhere down the line.

Understood. I cannot speak for God in that I could satisfy you or anybody else as to why there are those with such need in this world, (not that I claim to know). God has said this with regard to the poor; Matthew 26:11 (KJV)
" 11 For ye have the poor always with you;"

I can say this however, whether drowning in need, or swimming in riches, men apart from Christ are never happy. The quintessential case in point would be the familiar story about the man who entered a convenience store in Westwood, Kentucky with only enough money to buy a coke and a lottery ticket. The man winds up winning hundreds of millions of dollars only to see it all wasted in a few short years. Point being, would helping and giving ever really rescue the poor, or make them happy?

I just do not accept the premise that a man cannot make his way in this country if he is willing to work. People would not be pouring into this nation from Mexico if there were not work to be had. Granted, it may not be the work that many might want but, work none the less. In my mind there are only two possibilities with regard to faith. We either have faith or we do not. To understand faith we must first see what God has said about how one acquires faith. Ephesians 2:8-9 (KJV)

"8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast."

So, first is the fact that faith comes to man via "THE gift of God." Secondly, is Hebrews 11:6 (KJV)
6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Therefore, it my contention that though I may not fully understand why God does what He does, if a man seeks Him (at the behest of his own prodding conscience) God will give that man the faith to believe.

We will always have the poor. I would venture that many times being poor hasn't got the first thing to do with a degree, it's more about attitude. At any rate, I would advocate that we should reach out to the poor, helping them in any way that we can. Total eradication of poverty was the vision and the dream of the late Lyndon Baines Johnson. He reasoned that if there were a place on earth, in any time where poverty could be wiped out, it was the USA. And as you said, it isn't working well, is it?

[Harry Rex Vonner]

I'm not convinced of much in this life but I am convinced that TheRealThing has conquered the problem of wavering faith. I commend him.