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08-18-2009, 04:06 PM
The State Board of Education cleared the way Friday to add an elective Bible course for high school students, but the issue is far from clear.
Still to be determined are details such as whether school districts will be required to add the elective if requested by 15 or more students and exactly what can and can't be taught in the course.
Cathy Ashby, associate superintendent for curriculum and instruction in the Abilene Independent School District, said the district is waiting on the Texas Education Agency to write the curriculum.
"If it's required we'll add it," she said. "We will follow the guidelines of the state."
Problem is, the state guidelines aren't exactly the Ten Commandments when it comes to precise and concise language.
For example, because the State Board of Education voted 10-5 in favor of the rule establishing the elective, the course can be put in place this fall. If the vote had been less than two-thirds, the course would have been delayed until the fall of 2009.
Also, Attorney General Greg Abbott has yet to rule on whether high schools must offer a Bible course if requested by at least 15 students, which was mentioned in the legislation that was passed in 2007.
Also muddying the waters was the State Board of Education's decision to reject a call by one of the bill's authors for specific guidelines in establishing the elective.
Instead, the majority of the 15-member board said they preferred to adopt a general rule now and not get into specifics of what can be taught. Critics say that leaves open the threat of running afoul of the First Amendment if a teacher strays into proselytizing or denouncing a particular religion.
AISD's Ashby said a certified teacher will have to be identified before a course can be added to local high schools. That person may or may not already teach in AISD schools.
A spokesperson for Wylie Independent School District could not be reached Friday.
Ashby said it isn't a "given" that 15 AISD students will request that the course be added, even in a city noted for its three church-affiliated universities and numerous churches.
High school students don't have much time in a school day for electives, she said. With students being required to take four years of English, history, math and science, their elective selections are limited.
"It doesn't leave a lot of room for electives," Ashby said.
The purpose of the proposed Bible elective, as outlined in House Bill 1287, makes it clear the class cannot be an avenue for advocating or denouncing any religion.
A former Cooper High School teacher said he doesn't think that will be a problem.
Mike Thomesen taught world and European history at Cooper for 15 years.
Thomesen teaches education courses part time at McMurry University and is the school's teacher certification officer. He holds a bachelor's degree in Bible and a master's degree in ancient church history from Abilene Christian University.
Even with his Church of Christ background through ACU and his brush with Methodism through McMurry, Thomesen said teaching the Bible from an academic, not devotional, point of view isn't difficult.
Thomesen said it always was important to him as a teacher to remain neutral.
"I had a great idea of where that line was you didn't cross," he said. "I was going to make sure I didn't cross it. I never found it difficult."
In his 15 years of teaching high school classes, Thomesen said he received only one call from a concerned parent, who was satisfied with his answers to her questions.
A local minister, the Rev. Robert Bush of Sacred Heart Catholic Church, said he thinks the course would be good if taught correctly, meaning according to law.
"I think it would be incumbent upon the school board to lay down some guidelines within the law," he said.
Bush said he would see nothing wrong with a course that presents varying beliefs along the line of "this is what some say -- this is what others say."
Bush said he likes the idea of adding the elective, at least as an experiment. If it turned out to be a disaster, he said, voters could start talking to their representatives about rescinding the law.
One thing the addition of a Bible elective probably wouldn't do is draw in more local home-schooled students. AISD's Ashby said about 35 home-schooled children attend AISD schools part time.
They mostly sign up for classes that require expensive labs, such as chemistry, or that can't be taken alone, such as choir or band.
AISD doesn't charge tuition if a home-schooled child takes fewer than three classes, Ashby said. Most take only one, she said.
http://www.reporternews.com/news/2008/ju...s-schools/
Still to be determined are details such as whether school districts will be required to add the elective if requested by 15 or more students and exactly what can and can't be taught in the course.
Cathy Ashby, associate superintendent for curriculum and instruction in the Abilene Independent School District, said the district is waiting on the Texas Education Agency to write the curriculum.
"If it's required we'll add it," she said. "We will follow the guidelines of the state."
Problem is, the state guidelines aren't exactly the Ten Commandments when it comes to precise and concise language.
For example, because the State Board of Education voted 10-5 in favor of the rule establishing the elective, the course can be put in place this fall. If the vote had been less than two-thirds, the course would have been delayed until the fall of 2009.
Also, Attorney General Greg Abbott has yet to rule on whether high schools must offer a Bible course if requested by at least 15 students, which was mentioned in the legislation that was passed in 2007.
Also muddying the waters was the State Board of Education's decision to reject a call by one of the bill's authors for specific guidelines in establishing the elective.
Instead, the majority of the 15-member board said they preferred to adopt a general rule now and not get into specifics of what can be taught. Critics say that leaves open the threat of running afoul of the First Amendment if a teacher strays into proselytizing or denouncing a particular religion.
AISD's Ashby said a certified teacher will have to be identified before a course can be added to local high schools. That person may or may not already teach in AISD schools.
A spokesperson for Wylie Independent School District could not be reached Friday.
Ashby said it isn't a "given" that 15 AISD students will request that the course be added, even in a city noted for its three church-affiliated universities and numerous churches.
High school students don't have much time in a school day for electives, she said. With students being required to take four years of English, history, math and science, their elective selections are limited.
"It doesn't leave a lot of room for electives," Ashby said.
The purpose of the proposed Bible elective, as outlined in House Bill 1287, makes it clear the class cannot be an avenue for advocating or denouncing any religion.
A former Cooper High School teacher said he doesn't think that will be a problem.
Mike Thomesen taught world and European history at Cooper for 15 years.
Thomesen teaches education courses part time at McMurry University and is the school's teacher certification officer. He holds a bachelor's degree in Bible and a master's degree in ancient church history from Abilene Christian University.
Even with his Church of Christ background through ACU and his brush with Methodism through McMurry, Thomesen said teaching the Bible from an academic, not devotional, point of view isn't difficult.
Thomesen said it always was important to him as a teacher to remain neutral.
"I had a great idea of where that line was you didn't cross," he said. "I was going to make sure I didn't cross it. I never found it difficult."
In his 15 years of teaching high school classes, Thomesen said he received only one call from a concerned parent, who was satisfied with his answers to her questions.
A local minister, the Rev. Robert Bush of Sacred Heart Catholic Church, said he thinks the course would be good if taught correctly, meaning according to law.
"I think it would be incumbent upon the school board to lay down some guidelines within the law," he said.
Bush said he would see nothing wrong with a course that presents varying beliefs along the line of "this is what some say -- this is what others say."
Bush said he likes the idea of adding the elective, at least as an experiment. If it turned out to be a disaster, he said, voters could start talking to their representatives about rescinding the law.
One thing the addition of a Bible elective probably wouldn't do is draw in more local home-schooled students. AISD's Ashby said about 35 home-schooled children attend AISD schools part time.
They mostly sign up for classes that require expensive labs, such as chemistry, or that can't be taken alone, such as choir or band.
AISD doesn't charge tuition if a home-schooled child takes fewer than three classes, Ashby said. Most take only one, she said.
http://www.reporternews.com/news/2008/ju...s-schools/
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08-18-2009, 09:21 PM
I am dead against any religion being taught in schools. If you teach one, that opens the doors to all. I don't want Islam or any other religion being taught to my kids. I'll teach my kids about the Bible and religion at home.
08-18-2009, 10:16 PM
idk, i think if someone wants to take a religion class as an elective thats fine, but dont require it in any way.
08-18-2009, 11:07 PM
Wildcatk23 Wrote:idk, i think if someone wants to take a religion class as an elective thats fine, but dont require it in any way.
If you make a Bible class, you have to make a Islamic class, a Buddhist class, Hinduism class, Shintao class etc. etc. etc. Only offering one would show favoritism. This is all considering is should even allowed in school, which I don't think it has a place in public school. If you want your child to learn this, send to them to a private school that provides it, then to Liberty University where they can see the 3,000 year old dinosaur bones.:lmao:
08-18-2009, 11:13 PM
RF81 Wrote:If you make a Bible class, you have to make a Islamic class, a Buddhist class, Hinduism class, Shintao class etc. etc. etc. Only offering one would show favoritism. This is all considering is should even allowed in school, which I don't think it has a place in public school. If you want your child to learn this, send to them to a private school that provides it, then to Liberty University where they can see the 3,000 year old dinosaur bones.:lmao:
i didnt say to just offer a bible class, i said religion, not all schools have the same classes, its a bad idea yea, but if kids want to learn about religion let them.
08-19-2009, 09:51 AM
RF81 Wrote:But that's what they are trying to do here, make a Bible class, which is ridiculous.
No it's not. School is about teaching about culture. In the US, there are more Christians than any other denomination, so it makes since to teach about the populace.
Schools have Black History classes, but don't offer, portuguise history, Asian History, Brazilian History. Do I have an issue with the schools offering Black History classes? NO! Why, because our populace has a significant number directly affected by Black History.
We teach in great detail about US Civil War, WWI, WWII, Vietnam but do not spend the same amount of time on the war of the Baltics, other country Civil Wars, Israel/Palestine - Why, becuase our poulace has a direct correlation to the wars that the US has been involved in.
So, to have classes about other religions that are in proportion to our populace is not an issue at all. If an appropriate proportion of our country is muslim, I wouldn't have an issue with them teaching a class on the Koran.
08-19-2009, 10:29 AM
I don't see anything wrong with them teaching about what our country was founded on.
08-19-2009, 01:56 PM
It disgust me when you have people that want to take god out of everything, I dont profess to be a christian.....but I'm smart enough to know if it wasn't for god you or I would not be able to anything, and one of these days we will all have to stand before him and give account for the life that we have lived on this earth !!!! And btw, for a lot of kids, this sadly to say is all they will be taught about God, because they have parents that want to take god out of everything, and this sickens me !!!!!!!!
08-19-2009, 03:13 PM
Stardust Wrote:No it's not. School is about teaching about culture. In the US, there are more Christians than any other denomination, so it makes since to teach about the populace.
Schools have Black History classes, but don't offer, portuguise history, Asian History, Brazilian History. Do I have an issue with the schools offering Black History classes? NO! Why, because our populace has a significant number directly affected by Black History.
We teach in great detail about US Civil War, WWI, WWII, Vietnam but do not spend the same amount of time on the war of the Baltics, other country Civil Wars, Israel/Palestine - Why, becuase our poulace has a direct correlation to the wars that the US has been involved in.
So, to have classes about other religions that are in proportion to our populace is not an issue at all. If an appropriate proportion of our country is muslim, I wouldn't have an issue with them teaching a class on the Koran.
Yes it is. I just read it over and I can't find what you're talking about, it says nothing about it being a history on Christianity here. It says this....
"The State Board of Education cleared the way Friday to add an elective Bible course for high school students, but the issue is far from clear."
You have an apples and oranges argument going on, being black/Brazilian/asian etc. isn't a belief at all, a person cannot be swayed to be black or asian. And because a larger proportion of the country is Christian, that makes it okay? What about the 75 million that aren't Christian? A class on the history of Christianity would be pushing it, but this isn't that, this is a class on the Bible...And I would bet the farm that if this was the Koran, there would be a very large uproar from these very people.
I want a class taught on the Gospels of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and others for non-believers. There is a higher number of non-believers in the US than blacks, hispanics, Jews, Muslims...so if we got the numbers? See.
bigjim4packers Wrote:I don't see anything wrong with them teaching about what our country was founded on.
That'd be okay if we were founded on it, but we weren't. A lot of the Founding Fathers weren't christians and understood how important the Separation of Church and State was and is.
lil dog Wrote:It disgust me when you have people that want to take god out of everything, I dont profess to be a christian.....but I'm smart enough to know if it wasn't for god you or I would not be able to anything, and one of these days we will all have to stand before him and give account for the life that we have lived on this earth !!!! And btw, for a lot of kids, this sadly to say is all they will be taught about God, because they have parents that want to take god out of everything, and this sickens me !!!!!!!!
God doesn't belong in anything like this, this is a country that has made it clear with our Freedom of Religion. That's your opinion, that isn't fact, that isn't my belief and religion has no place in Schools. Let everyone worry about what's going to happen if there were to be a God, not your place to tell them and not their place to teach this. Indoctrination sickens me just as much.
08-19-2009, 03:52 PM
RF81 Wrote:Yes it is. I just read it over and I can't find what you're talking about, it says nothing about it being a history on Christianity here. It says this....
"The State Board of Education cleared the way Friday to add an elective Bible course for high school students, but the issue is far from clear."
You have an apples and oranges argument going on, being black/Brazilian/asian etc. isn't a belief at all, a person cannot be swayed to be black or asian. And because a larger proportion of the country is Christian, that makes it okay? What about the 75 million that aren't Christian? A class on the history of Christianity would be pushing it, but this isn't that, this is a class on the Bible...And I would bet the farm that if this was the Koran, there would be a very large uproar from these very people.
I want a class taught on the Gospels of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and others for non-believers. There is a higher number of non-believers in the US than blacks, hispanics, Jews, Muslims...so if we got the numbers? See.
That'd be okay if we were founded on it, but we weren't. A lot of the Founding Fathers weren't christians and understood how important the Separation of Church and State was and is.
God doesn't belong in anything like this, this is a country that has made it clear with our Freedom of Religion. That's your opinion, that isn't fact, that isn't my belief and religion has no place in Schools. Let everyone worry about what's going to happen if there were to be a God, not your place to tell them and not their place to teach this. Indoctrination sickens me just as much.
And by the same token PAL, its not your place to say it shouldnt be taught in schools, if you have a right to say that it shouldnt be taught ....I have the right to say its fine if they teach it!!! BTW, if there were to be a god, I see that you are blind and gullible in this matter also, that is the most idiotic statement I have heard in a while !!!!!!!!!
08-19-2009, 04:02 PM
lil dog Wrote:And by the same token PAL, its not your place to say it shouldnt be taught in schools, if you have a right to say that it shouldnt be taught ....I have the right to say its fine if they teach it!!! BTW, if there were to be a god, I see that you are blind and gullible in this matter also, that is the most idiotic statement I have heard in a while !!!!!!!!!
No it's not, the law is on my side, not yours. What law/proclamation supports it to be taught or be in school at all? Go read the first Amendment or read this....
The Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom, written in 1779 by Thomas Jefferson, proclaimed:
"[N]o man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burthened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer, on account of his religious opinions or belief; but that all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise diminish, enlarge, or affect their civil capacities."
Ever heard of Engel V. Vitale?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engel_v._Vitale
And let's not get started on that issue of there being a God, there's another thread for that, and you have no proof of there to be one...it's faith, that's not backed up by anything. We've been over this in the other thread, it's really bold for someone of your religion to call me blind and gullible.
08-19-2009, 04:12 PM
Stardust Wrote:No it's not. School is about teaching about culture. In the US, there are more Christians than any other denomination, so it makes since to teach about the populace.
Schools have Black History classes, but don't offer, portuguise history, Asian History, Brazilian History. Do I have an issue with the schools offering Black History classes? NO! Why, because our populace has a significant number directly affected by Black History.
We teach in great detail about US Civil War, WWI, WWII, Vietnam but do not spend the same amount of time on the war of the Baltics, other country Civil Wars, Israel/Palestine - Why, becuase our poulace has a direct correlation to the wars that the US has been involved in.
So, to have classes about other religions that are in proportion to our populace is not an issue at all. If an appropriate proportion of our country is muslim, I wouldn't have an issue with them teaching a class on the Koran.
I agree with you, Wow, I Agree With YOu
08-19-2009, 04:29 PM
RF81 Wrote:Yes it is. I just read it over and I can't find what you're talking about, it says nothing about it being a history on Christianity here. It says this....
"The State Board of Education cleared the way Friday to add an elective Bible course for high school students, but the issue is far from clear."
You have an apples and oranges argument going on, being black/Brazilian/asian etc. isn't a belief at all, a person cannot be swayed to be black or asian. And because a larger proportion of the country is Christian, that makes it okay? What about the 75 million that aren't Christian? A class on the history of Christianity would be pushing it, but this isn't that, this is a class on the Bible...And I would bet the farm that if this was the Koran, there would be a very large uproar from these very people.
.
What a completely uneducated comment you just made!
Where does it say IT'S NOT ABOUT HISTORY! You are telling me that it doesn't say it's about History, you show me where it's purely a religious class.
How lame!
08-19-2009, 04:33 PM
lil dog Wrote:This guy rf81 has less than 100 post and I personally cant stand to see another one, I,M gonna put this cat on my ignore list and be done with him !!!!!
No need to do that. Posters like this have a right to be on here. They want to blast all of us because we are not "Open Minded". That's pretty typical of someone who is not "Open Minded"! I don't get hung on on posts like the those, they are actually comical. This is a forum and it's open to all.
Sometimes it's those who want to sound educated and in the know are are the least!
08-19-2009, 04:56 PM
Stardust Wrote:What a completely uneducated comment you just made!
Where does it say IT'S NOT ABOUT HISTORY! You are telling me that it doesn't say it's about History, you show me where it's purely a religious class.
How lame!
It doesn't say it is, it says "Bible course", you're the one that said it was like the history classes of this and that. I directly quoted what it said, a Bible course, nothing I said about it was wrong. It's a Bible course, a course on the the Old and New testament...I have no read anything about history or impact of it here in the U.S., a class like that would be pushing it like I said, but it's not like that with this. So how is that an uneducated comment?
The Bible would be used as a text book, how is this not promoting a specific religion? That's against the law, it's not just the non-believers that don't like this, Jews are pretty ticked too.
08-19-2009, 05:03 PM
RF81 Wrote:It doesn't say it is, it says "Bible course", you're the one that said it was like the history classes of this and that. I directly quoted what it said, a Bible course, nothing I said about it was wrong. It's a Bible course, a course on the the Old and New testament...I have no read anything about history or impact of it here in the U.S., a class like that would be pushing it like I said, but it's not like that with this. So how is that an uneducated comment?
The Bible would be used as a text book, how is this not promoting a specific religion? That's against the law, it's not just the non-believers that don't like this, Jews are pretty ticked too.
NOTHING says its NOT a history class either! So don't say you know what the reference means to this class based on the lack of details presented in the story.
What does Bible Course mean? What is the Bible? Non-belivers or non christians may say it, as well as other religious writings, are Fiction, Non-Fiction, History, Reference, etc... What is your point. As I said, this reference book is specific to a practice that dominates our country. If we have courses specific to other topics that are traditional to US history and culture, then it has a right to be an optional learning for any student who has an interest! Do I support a class on Judaism? Nope! WhY? Because faith, teachings and history minimal historical presence within the United States.
08-19-2009, 05:21 PM
Stardust Wrote:NOTHING says its NOT a history class either! So don't say you know what the reference means to this class based on the lack of details presented in the story.
What does Bible Course mean? What is the Bible? Non-belivers or non christians may say it, as well as other religious writings, are Fiction, Non-Fiction, History, Reference, etc... What is your point. As I said, this reference book is specific to a practice that dominates our country. If we have courses specific to other topics that are traditional to US history and culture, then it has a right to be an optional learning for any student who has an interest! Do I support a class on Judaism? Nope! WhY? Because faith, teachings and history minimal historical presence within the United States.
History class of what? The Bible? This isn't incorporating Christianity into a U.S. History class, this is a Bible class all to itself. The OT and NT will be used as textbooks, how is that explaining the role it played here in the U.S.? Because Christianity, as of right now, is the majority means what? It means jack, it doesn't mean it makes it acceptable to teach something like this in a nation that has Freedom of Religion and no matter how many prefer one, it cannot be pronounced as "the" religion. Like I said, there are around 75 million(which is a growing number, as Christianity is a shrinking one here) that aren't Christians that shouldn't be left out because of they aren't the majority. It's called Tyranny of the majority, that's not what this nation is supposed to be about. And no matter how much people can claim this is a "Christian Nation" and was founded on it, law and history says otherwise.
It's a Christian thing, not a history thing no matter how much anyone tries to dress it up. The bill was made up by a pastor and groups like Falwell's Liberty Institute(complete and total lunatics) have filed in behalf of it.
08-19-2009, 07:03 PM
RF81 Wrote:History class of what? The Bible? This isn't incorporating Christianity into a U.S. History class, this is a Bible class all to itself. The OT and NT will be used as textbooks, how is that explaining the role it played here in the U.S.? Because Christianity, as of right now, is the majority means what? It means jack, it doesn't mean it makes it acceptable to teach something like this in a nation that has Freedom of Religion and no matter how many prefer one, it cannot be pronounced as "the" religion. Like I said, there are around 75 million(which is a growing number, as Christianity is a shrinking one here) that aren't Christians that shouldn't be left out because of they aren't the majority. It's called Tyranny of the majority, that's not what this nation is supposed to be about. And no matter how much people can claim this is a "Christian Nation" and was founded on it, law and history says otherwise.Where is the syllabus that you are obviously so familiar with. I'd like to know what you know so I can speak as intelligently about what this course is all about, because obviously you have some insight that was not in the published article.
It's a Christian thing, not a history thing no matter how much anyone tries to dress it up. The bill was made up by a pastor and groups like Falwell's Liberty Institute(complete and total lunatics) have filed in behalf of it.
:eyeroll:
08-19-2009, 08:00 PM
Stardust Wrote:Where is the syllabus that you are obviously so familiar with. I'd like to know what you know so I can speak as intelligently about what this course is all about, because obviously you have some insight that was not in the published article.
:eyeroll:
Well this has been on the news, this isn't the only article, and with a little use of the search bar...you can find it out like I did.
A better article on it...
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/01/educat...nd&emc=rss
.....the bill itself...
http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/tlodocs/8...01287I.htm
and a article on it...
http://www.tylerpaper.com/apps/pbcs.dll/...7/70403019
This wouldn't be as bad if it was added to an existed class, I'm not talking about anytthing to do with the Bible, just add history of christianity here maybe. A bible class is something you would find in Sunday School, not a public school. This is what these private schools and christian schools are for, over the line and all this will do is draw millions in lawsuits against them - unconstitutional and stupid on their part.
08-19-2009, 08:28 PM
lil dog Wrote:It disgust me when you have people that want to take god out of everything, I dont profess to be a christian.....but I'm smart enough to know if it wasn't for god you or I would not be able to anything, and one of these days we will all have to stand before him and give account for the life that we have lived on this earth !!!! And btw, for a lot of kids, this sadly to say is all they will be taught about God, because they have parents that want to take god out of everything, and this sickens me !!!!!!!!And you will be in the same **** as the person that "doesn't believe", and disgust you for wanting to take god out of everything.
08-19-2009, 08:52 PM
RF81 Wrote:Well this has been on the news, this isn't the only article, and with a little use of the search bar...you can find it out like I did.
A better article on it...
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/01/educat...nd&emc=rss
.....the bill itself...
http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/tlodocs/8...01287I.htm
and a article on it...
http://www.tylerpaper.com/apps/pbcs.dll/...7/70403019
This wouldn't be as bad if it was added to an existed class, I'm not talking about anytthing to do with the Bible, just add history of christianity here maybe. A bible class is something you would find in Sunday School, not a public school. This is what these private schools and christian schools are for, over the line and all this will do is draw millions in lawsuits against them - unconstitutional and stupid on their part.
LOL - Hmm, so what does it say they are planning to do:
''We're not going to preach the Bible, we're going to teach the Bible and how it affects all of our writings, documents and the formation of our government,'' said Chisum. ''We're taking it as a document that has historical value. It's the most widely distributed book in the world.''
OMG - I hadn't even seen the article and I figured it all by my little lonesome.....:Thumbs:
08-19-2009, 09:01 PM
TheRealVille Wrote:And you will be in the same **** as the person that "doesn't believe", and disgust you for wanting to take god out of everything.
This is the one and only time I have ever or will ever agree with you, YES I would be in the same shape as the guy that disgust me.......but nevertheless, you will never hear me trying to take god out of anything and I'm not trying to be holier than thou, or a self righteous person and I stated that I do not profess to be something that I'm not, I just hate to hear people trying to not let others hear about god , and I know that people have their own opinion aand I may not agree with it but thats their right, BUT WHY NOT LET KIDS TAKE A BIBLE CLASS IF THEY WANT AND LET THEM FORM THEIR OWN OPINION[B][/B]
08-19-2009, 09:21 PM
Stardust Wrote:LOL - Hmm, so what does it say they are planning to do:
''We're not going to preach the Bible, we're going to teach the Bible and how it affects all of our writings, documents and the formation of our government,'' said Chisum. ''We're taking it as a document that has historical value. It's the most widely distributed book in the world.''
OMG - I hadn't even seen the article and I figured it all by my little lonesome.....:Thumbs:
I guess that guy(who came up with the bill) would defend it as such, because any other way would admit what he's trying to do...which is preach. The Koran could be used just as easily, but these people would never call for that. If you actually think this has anything to do with history, you've lost it man. It's no coincidence that every christian-right group in the world is pushing it. There are other texts, there are a million ways to teach history that has nothing to do with teaching the Bible or religion...it's not a proven method and always ends in controversy, here you go....
print this Print
Most Bible courses in Texas schools not academic, study finds
By The Associated Press,
First Amendment Center Online staff
09.14.06
AUSTIN, Texas â The majority of Bible courses being offered as electives at Texas high schools are devotional and sectarian in their approach and do not teach about the Bible in a historical or literary context as required under state law a new study has found.
The San Antonio Express-News reported in a story on its Web site on Sept. 12 that the yearlong study by the Texas Freedom Network found that in most instances the courses fail to meet minimal academic standards for teacher qualifications, curriculum and academic rigor.
Most of the courses promote one faith perspective over all others and push an ideological agenda that is hostile to religious freedom, science and public education, according to the 76-page report, "Reading, Writing and Religion," released yesterday.
The Texas Freedom Network surveyed the more than 1,000 school districts in the state to learn which offered Bible electives. Mark Chancey, a biblical studies professor at Southern Methodist University, then analyzed the curricula, going back five years, from 25 districts, about 3% of the total, that offered them as electives in 2005-2006.
The report was a joint effort by Chancey and the Education Fund of the Texas Freedom Network, a liberal watchdog group.
The study found the vast majority of the electives to be explicitly devotional, with an almost exclusively Christian, usually Protestant, perspective. It also found most of the Bible courses were taught by teachers with no academic training in biblical, religious or theological studies and who were not very familiar with the issues of separation of church and state.
"We stand with parents who believe that the Bible is a great way to teach students about the importance of religion in history and literature. But we think pressure groups have hijacked a good idea and the end result is that these courses can betray families' faith in our public schools by teaching courses with a narrow religious perspective above all others," said TFN President Kathy Miller.
The report said San Antonio's North East Independent School District and the independent school districts of Leander and Whiteface were exceptions to the norm and presented material in a more neutral manner.
"This report has national implications because the materials used in the unconstitutional Texas courses are also used in school districts in many other states," said Charles Haynes, First Amendment Center senior scholar. "As the study points out, if school districts would follow the legal and educational guidance found in The Bible in Public Schools, a consensus statement published by the First Amendment Center, they could create Bible electives that pass constitutional muster."
Mike Adkins, spokesman for the Ector Independent School District, said the district was comfortable with its curriculum. The district, which includes Odessa, added a Bible elective this year based on the National Council on Bible Curriculum in Public Schools.
Debbie Ratcliffe, a spokeswoman for the Texas Education Agency, said the agency didn't know which districts offered Bible electives and did not monitor content. She said Texas schools could offer Bible courses only as electives and must avoid proselytizing.
The study included districts such as Big Spring, which began offering a Bible course in 1932, and Brazosport, which began its course in 1999.
http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/news.aspx?id=17389
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What you have is an unconstitutional class, being taught by unqualified teachers who will being going by opinion more than facts. It's just like these parents who homeschool their child and only use things like the Bible to go by.
If someone wants to teach their kid about the Bible, teach the them at home or send them to church...but don't send the church into the schools that EVERY tax payer - jewish, muslim, atheist, buddhist - has to pay for this. Christianity tries to influence enough in this country, like legislation, this is just another example.
08-19-2009, 09:27 PM
lil dog Wrote:This is the one and only time I have ever or will ever agree with you, YES I would be in the same shape as the guy that disgust me.......but nevertheless, you will never hear me trying to take god out of anything and I'm not trying to be holier than thou, or a self righteous person and I stated that I do not profess to be something that I'm not, I just hate to hear people trying to not let others hear about god , and I know that people have their own opinion aand I may not agree with it but thats their right, BUT WHY NOT LET KIDS TAKE A BIBLE CLASS IF THEY WANT AND LET THEM FORM THEIR OWN OPINION[B][/B]Like I said, if you allow that class, you open the doors to all kinds of religions being taught. I don't wan't my kid taught Islam, therefore, I have to be against all religions being taught in school. Teaching religion, be it Christianity, Islam, Jehovahs, whatever, is up to the parents at home. If you teach Christianity in schools, you will be required to allow all religions before long. Mark it down, if you allow the Bible, the Quran will soon follow. Be careful what you wish for, the ACLU will help you out.
08-20-2009, 06:06 AM
DevilsWin Wrote:Fools do Foolish things..
Man your on a roll tonight, aren't you???
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