[TheRealThing]

[quote=TheRealThing]Okay, let me try again. There was a time when the trades folks HAD to take tremendous risks to make what was at that time a very meager wage. Working hundreds of feet in the air on the side of some skyscraper for instance. No fall protection, no bathroom facility, no breaks, about a 15 min lunch etc. Also, if one wanted to keep the job he had he bowed his neck and worked like there was no tomorrow. If he didn't he ascended to the top of the lay off list as they say. Every worker routinely took life threatening risks to perform his daily grind. Mines with little or no thought to safety, working in dusts and chemicals that eventually killed them all. I can provide examples to substantiate the point Ad Nauseum if you like.

Men like these that I have mentioned, formed unions so that they could bargain as effectively as possible for wages and conditions. I mean they were on their own when they stood before the Man in those days. As a result, it was easy to be treated badly standing there on your own. The idea was a good one as it turns out, and decent folks got what is described by Union Men these days as a "FAIR DAYS' WORK FOR A FAIR DAYS' PAY"

Not to in anyway say that teachers, state highway workers, government clerks and secretaries, grounds keepers, janitors and on it could neccessrarily go, don't deserve to make it in this world too. But, if a state employee tried to get up and say he was being abused, my guess is that he'd be laughed to scorn. Union folks blazed the way for all Americans by their courage and insight.

Now to your point regarding why you can't have the same benefits.
1 Your work isn't dangeroius
2 Your work isn't long
3 Your work isn't hard
4 You're off more days than you work each year
5 You have tenure. After 10 years even the President himself can't touch you
6 You have a darn good retirement
7 You have darn good health insurance and life insurance
8 The harshest evironmental hazard you face is second hand smoke in the restroom
9 You get paid vacation and holidays, personal days, sick days
10 You get very good pay
You tell me did I miss anything?

The union folks I know get the following;
1 Health insurance that they pay a lot for
2 A check if they work, no check if they don't (good pay)
3 A pension that they pay an hourly $ amount for
4 A swift kick in the pants when they get too old to cut the mustard
5 Total paid days off each year, counting Christmas----ZERO

I suppose we are both confused at this point. Tell me again why you need to be a union member so you can get the benefits I get? Again I say a state job is to die for because in this country government backed jobs are the very best bar none.[/QUOTE]

Depends, I will get blamed for us not comparing with China from an educational standpoint by most in the US and certainly on some Fox Channel:biggrin: However, what most of the US and Fox either chooses to look the other way or they are simple ignorant is the fact, we educate every single person in the US. China does not. If I take our top ten percent and educate them, then as they say we compare apples to apples.

However, it will be spun to say teachers are the cause of this, it is their fault. They are over paid, they have so much time off, some of the points you made earlier, but now that you know the truth about them, I would bet you don't feel the same way, but then again maybe you do.

One of the main reasons I joined this site is so I could get a better understanding of the people in our region and open my eyes to what you see and hear. So, I thank you again for sharing them and I want you to know that I respect them.

I really want to be as responsible and respectful to you as I can when I say this. For the record I like teachers very much and value their contributions. I don't think they are overpaid, and you certainly can't help it if the school year runs for 9 and a half months but, you just did what I hate and that is to 'spin' my comments.

People can't legislate themselves into an idyllic, happy for life, existance, through the government, or unions, or a mixture of both. That's what this whole thing in Wisconsin looks like to me. The perfect one two punch of government and the union contract that will take one to financial freedom, and all you have to do is vote for everything you want. It's almost like people are trying to merge the unions and the federal government. The law of supply and demand is what drives the market in this land, not contracts. That is unless Obama really does succeed in "fundamentally transforming" our country. My contract might state that I get all kinds of benefits and perks, but if my employer doesn't have work then I don't have work, or benefits. You can bet employers don't let uneeded labor stand around telling jokes for long no matter how good their contract might be.

There is no short cut to success. But here in this country there is opportunity. The hourly worker deserves to live a respectable lifestyle taking his contribution and his sacrifice into account. That is all unions do, give decent folks a chance. The emergence of unions on the scene in this country and the circumstances surrounding those days are a matter of recorded history. I really don't want to offend anyone at all but, to me, teacher unions are out of place, all square pegs in round holes. As I said earlier a misapplication of a good idea because service providing workers don't have the moral right to strike. Which is at the core of collective barganing. What are you going to use to bring pressure to bear if not refuse to work? There is no way that would be right because you would at that time be using your students as hostages. I know highjackers take hostages when they negotiate, it has the advantage headlines and results though.