[TheRealVille]

I've worked on almost all of the major unit builds in Ashland oil since 1990. I can name just about every project manager and superintendant on every new unit built, and turnaround, on the mechanical end, and none were carpenters, save one superintendant. My dad was 248, and pushed on most of those units. I was there.QUOTE=TheRealThing;1458737]LOL, yeah, unlike the more modest folks on here who sit around and brag about how much money they've got and how smart they are. You're dodging my assertion, you work turnarounds and shutdowns a lot. The only work mechanical people run are mechanical jobs, which in many cases are glorified maintenance endeavours. The reason being, you guys aren't trained. Running pipe and valves constitute most of the work on shutdowns or fuel conversions but, only a small percentage of the scope of work that happens on a big project. And civil work, as you point out, falls within my sphere of expertise as well. As for your conviction about what kind of work fitters run, I will say this. Carpenters were the supers on all the new units that have been put in over the years at the Ashland Oil now MAP refineries, including the coal liquification plant. Same thing at Armco Steel now AK Steel. I worked these jobs, I know what I'm talking about. And, I had a good run during the 1980's due to the fact that demand was up and my skills cover a broad application.

You said your dad was an Ashland hand. I asked if he was a 248 hand, my best friend is in that local, between the two of us we know everybody there except maybe some of the apprentices. So tell me, what were you talking about when you said your dad was a Ashland hand. Are you talking about the oil chemical & atomic worker unions at the refinery, or a plumbers and steamfitter local union? Those are the only 3 union locals in the Ashland area.[/QUOTE]