[Harry Rex Vonner]

I came up hard, Harry. I realized early on that if I were to have a portion of this world's goods, house, car and self sufficiency, it would certainly only come by working.

I respectfully disagree to some extent about the intentions of the framers. When Thomas Jefferson said that "All men are Created equal" his was not a reference to US or English law, it was in fact the creation of man and this universe. Created with rights that other men ought not to try to take away, (but obviously did and still do anyway). Further, that we have certain unalienable rights endowed upon us by that Creator. In citing those two situations, Jefferson is drawing upon the authority of God Almighty for his justification in going over the head of King George in declaring the United States and it's citizens free of the his tyranny.

We stand therefore with certain rights granted to us by said Creator. And, since The Creator's stated interest in man revolves ultimately around man's acceptance or rejection of His Son, Who sacrificed His life on the cross for man, I believe it is safe to assume that is at least in part what Jefferson was alluding to. It certainly belongs in that line of thought. And though, it was never Jefferson's intent to set up US law in a theocratical framework, US law is none the less based on the founder's understanding of the 10 commandments.

You make some fine points and I agree that much of the motivation of the framers was based on spiritual beliefs. Unfortunately, much of that foundation has been destroyed through new creations and broad interpretations of the text of the founding documents. And, in reality, the First Amendment provides for freedom from religion as well as freedom of religion. So, when those who are not spiritual push their agenda endlessly and those with strong spiritual beliefs do nothing to combat the growing tide, I believe both groups are equally guilty and both groups will be held accountable. The framers, using god's laws as a blueprint, gave us great documents to be used as the foundation and backbone of our republic. We have bastardized the principles set forth in those documents.

I often use the example of the man who plants a garden in the spring and then prays endlessly every day for a good harvest. At the time of harvest, he has no crop because he didn't hoe, weed, and water his garden. In other words, he was passive as are most churches and their members. We allow evil and our reaction is to either close our eyes or to pray and we do nothing else. It isn't working well, is it?