[dbcooper]

I well aware what you are meaning with the potential problems of what a pitcher can face when throwing at a constant velocity. Batters will ultimately time, sit, and wait, if no variance is made. I used 90-92 as a range number, but you used 88-91 as the same reference point to imply the same point that I was trying to make. Point that I am trying to convey is that when you start talking about what ever the velocity is of an average MLB'er is , you cannot assume that that particular range is the same thing as to what the topping out velocity is of those same pitchers. They are all able to reach back and put a little extra pop on the ball when ever they want to. Common problem about reaching back is that it tends to sometimes take some of the movement away from the ball and make it "flatten out", even by those that are thought of to have very lively arms. What has made Maddux so sucessful is his uncanny ability spot the ball, but maybe more importantly his ability to locate his changeup and the ability to play mind game with the unpredicabilty of what his next upcoming pitch might be. His curve ball has only been somewhat average. Him puposely taking several miles per hour off his fastball for the sake of movement only enhanced his effectiveness.

I think that you were using a number that was an average of all pitchers, rather than average numbers for pitchers coming from only one side. Right handers are more commonly required to throw a little harder than a left hander and are in general somewhat taller than lefties and are in the minds of a lot of scouts and coaches more "projectable" coming from the high school and college levels and are thought to be more physically enduring than what a somewhat shorter in stature right hander might be over the long haul.

Not saying that I agree with that principal at all, because to me 90 MPH is the same speed coming to the plate if it is thrown by a pitcher that is 5'9'' or from pitcher that is 6'9''. 90 MPH is still 90MPH, and 94 MPH is still 94MPH. However with a taller pitcher you are probably a foot or perhaps more closer to the plate at point of release than a pitch coming from a shorter pitcher and physics tell us that the reaction time by the batter must be faster. I just know of one particular pitcher from the area , that was shuned by some colleges at the high school level and in particular by a nearby college coach because he felt that this particular kid had peaked out physically because of his heigth. He was recruited by a much larger college as well, and his physical size was not the same consideration as it was by the other coach. In fact his statement was that velocity was behind movement, and the ability to throw strikes as far as priorities. Velocity and heigth was not a factor to him nearly as much as what it was with Coach A. This particular player threw in the 84-87 MPH range as a high school junior when recruited and has recently topped out at 92 , with an extemely live arm and Martinez type changeup as a college sophomore, all that with the fact of after sitting out for injury for almost a year and a half in between thrown into the equation. This particular player is only 5'10'' and weighs approximately 170 lbs. His development defied what "coach A" feared . Just trying to make a point of a stigma that does exist with among some in the college and professional baseball establishment when it comes to being a right hander and not posessing a certain heigth. Oh, by the way, Coach A is no longer at his place of employment as he ran that program into the ground and almost destroyed it, and Coach B is generally thought of as one of the up and coming and has had his program ranked in the top 20 nationally and went as far as breaking the top 10 a couple of years ago. Both programs are D1. However his current coach has made the statement to him that if he would have been 6'5" he would have been drafted a long time ago. Perhaps the common thoughts of being prototypical is one of the reasons for the lack of quality pitching in the majors?

So I guess what I am saying is that in some cases it still comes down to the statement that you intially made about the ability of a pitcher to be able to spot and change speeds, but at the same time you absolutely cannot be naive to the fact that the afore mentioned stigma does in fact live and breath in the minds of what I will still refer to as a majority. I feel that the lists of heights of players currently on MLB rosters and the list of drafted players only confirms the point that I am making. Common sense tells us that the average male is closer in height to 6'0" than 6'4''. My question to you that if the overwhelming number of males is of the shorter of the two heights, then why are they in the very exterme minority in the major leagues and in college? I think my statements are full of basis, based on the facts that I presented and of what I have personally witnessed and been told directly of.

I can only assume that the kid with the "million dollar arm" that never made it to the "Show" that you are refering to from a few years back is a player that comes from the same neck of the woods as Brandon Webb, and was drafted by the Pirates, or by a lefty from the western West Va. area that was drafted by the Angels.? Those are the only two that immediately come to my mind as possibilities that also share the 10 cent brain charactoristics, but perhaps there is another.

There is no question that height is desirable for reasons of pure physics -- but the fact remains that the average MLB pitcher is still not a tower in hte neighborhood of Harang, Johnson, et al.
The numbers you presented show that a prospect is more likely to be in the 6'0-6'3 range than anything else.
I don't want to specify who I was talking about, but you could be on the right track.
Thanks for the discussion.