[Stardust]

It's not because they can't produce it, it's a very, very long process...longer than we've been around of course and certainly couldn't be observed as it happened. Fossil records are the only thing to go by, which there are plenty that are waiting to be discovered. Again, a theory is fact in science until proven otherwise...there is no "missing link" that will change it from being a theory.

LOL:lmao: Hmm, and those of faith get laughed at because we CANT prove.....

[Stardust]

Ever heard of laminin? Laminin is the cell that is vital in making sure our body structures work together. In other words, it is what holds us together. Laminin is shaped like a cross. I tried inserting a picture of laminin from google images, but had no luck. Look up the picture and see for yourself. God really does have a sense of humor.

:Thumbs:

[Stardust]

Am i real???????????????????

Unfortunately:biggrin:

[RF81]

LOL:lmao: Hmm, and those of faith get laughed at because we CANT prove.....

There's plenty of proof, compared to zero on the other side.

[Stardust]

There's plenty of proof, compared to zero on the other side.

I wake up and smell the 100% proof every morning my friend - Heaven Made, pure and pure.

[Old School]

To this day I still don't understand atheism/evolutionism. Atheist/evolutionist do not believe that there is a God, and that this earth was formed by some huge explosion (big bang theory)or by some cosmic event that happened deep in some black hole millions of years ago.

These people believe that life was formed by one of these events and over the years the earth has evolved to what it is today. These same people for some reason or another refuse to believe that this earth was created by God. However these very same people are willing to believe that we humans with our unique systems that include our circulatory, nervous, digestive, musclar among others were developed by chance. The same with animals, there are thousands and thousands of various types of animals, insects but each one systems are different. What about plant life? What about crops we grow?

It is beyond me, how anyone can believe that this earth was formed by events that happened millions of years ago.

[RF81]

And it puzzles me how someone could believe we were created from dirt, by an invisible man, then woman from a rib, then the garden with a talking snake and magical tree. Faith! :lmao:


"I refuse to prove that I exist" says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith, I am nothing." "Oh," says man, "but the Babel Fish is a dead give-away, isn't it? It proves You exist, and so therefore You don't." "Oh, I hadn't thought of that." says God, who promptly vanishes in a puff of logic."



Religion is the oldest fad there is, they have come and gone for thousands and thousands of years. I ask again, Christianity isn't near the oldest religion, so what were people believing before then? Did people just go to ****? What about the people who believed in other God's that were worshiped before the Christian God?

[Deathstar 80]

I ask again, Christianity isn't near the oldest religion, so what were people believing before then? Did people just go to ****? What about the people who believed in other God's that were worshiped before the Christian God?

Before Christians, there were Jews. If you read the Old Testament in the Bible, you read that humans (Adam and Eve) first sinned against God, then God talked to Abraham (it's best to read about Abraham, I don't know much about him) which made Judaism, God promised the Jews a savior (the messiah), and Jesus was sent from God to be that savior. That's why we must accept him as our savior and put all of our sins (lying, stealing, etc.) on Jesus in order to go to heaven. Before God talked to Abraham, my best guess is that people made up their own Gods and went to **** when they died (because they sinned and couldn't get rid of that sin). (Just to let you know, it really is much better to read the bible and find a better answer than to trust on my guess.)

[Old School]

It appears we both have faith, mine is in God, and yours is in the big bang theory or something along that line.

[RF81]

Before Christians, there were Jews. If you read the Old Testament in the Bible, you read that humans (Adam and Eve) first sinned against God, then God talked to Abraham (it's best to read about Abraham, I don't know much about him) which made Judaism, God promised the Jews a savior (the messiah), and Jesus was sent from God to be that savior. That's why we must accept him as our savior and put all of our sins (lying, stealing, etc.) on Jesus in order to go to heaven. Before God talked to Abraham, my best guess is that people made up their own Gods and went to **** when they died (because they sinned and couldn't get rid of that sin). (Just to let you know, it really is much better to read the bible and find a better answer than to trust on my guess.)

You are exactly right, but still, there were many religions before even that(Hinduism for example).

[Deathstar 80]

You are exactly right, but still, there were many religions before even that(Hinduism for example).

Before God talked to Abraham, I could see that Hinduism was made. (Buddhism wasn't made until after Judaism; yet, Buddhism was created in China, away from Judaism. I'm guessing Buddhism is a "branch off" from Hinduism.) Hinduism could have been made because, as I said earlier, there was a time after humans sinned and before God talked to Abraham. I could understand people who migrated to the Indian region may have forgot the story past down about Adam and Eve sinning against God, or they could have purposely rebelled against God just so they could make their own religion. I'm not the best to answer this either, seeing that I haven't studied about World Religions.

Also, I said earlier that people who lived between the time when Adam and Eve rebelled against God and the time when God talked to Abraham went to **** when they died, but I really think I'm wrong. I just remembered other Christians telling me that if they don't know God's law when they break it, then they're not rebelling against God and, therefore, go to heaven when they die. The fact is I don't know, and I highly recommend you asking someone else or reading the Bible. Of course, I recommend anyone to read the Bible to find answers to anything. (History proves the Bible is a very good source. I've heard that treasures have been found because of the Bible.)

By the way, here's a link that helps me understand more about world religions if you're interested. -> http://www.mapsofwar.com/ind/history-of-religion.html

[RF81]

Before God talked to Abraham, I could see that Hinduism was made. (Buddhism wasn't made until after Judaism; yet, Buddhism was created in China, away from Judaism. I'm guessing Buddhism is a "branch off" from Hinduism.) Hinduism could have been made because, as I said earlier, there was a time after humans sinned and before God talked to Abraham. I could understand people who migrated to the Indian region may have forgot the story past down about Adam and Eve sinning against God, or they could have purposely rebelled against God just so they could make their own religion. I'm not the best to answer this either, seeing that I haven't studied about World Religions.

Also, I said earlier that people who lived between the time when Adam and Eve rebelled against God and the time when God talked to Abraham went to **** when they died, but I really think I'm wrong. I just remembered other Christians telling me that if they don't know God's law when they break it, then they're not rebelling against God and, therefore, go to heaven when they die. The fact is I don't know, and I highly recommend you asking someone else or reading the Bible. Of course, I recommend anyone to read the Bible to find answers to anything. (History proves the Bible is a very good source. I've heard that treasures have been found because of the Bible.)

By the way, here's a link that helps me understand more about world religions if you're interested. -> http://www.mapsofwar.com/ind/history-of-religion.html

Actually Buddhism isn't a branch of hinduism and wasn't come up with in China. Completely different religions, with a gap of about 2000 years and was started in India or Nepal really. And that was just one example, people have been worshiping the earth/god's for about 30,000 years...long before Abraham was ever here.

My point is, it all goes with the time. There's been religions before and after Christianity, which is a branch of Judaism, and Islam is a branch of them both. It's no coincidence that the two most popular religions in the world, are two of the newest.

Jesus is liked by almost everybody, but his story had been around for awhile. I'll name 3 long before him, with the same back ground....





Mithra of Persia - was worshiped around 1500 BC.

--Mithra was born of a virgin on December 25 in a cave, and his birth was attended by shepherds bearing gifts.
--He was considered a great traveling teacher and master.
--He had 12 companions or disciples.
--Mithra’s followers were promised immortality.
--He performed miracles.
--As the “great bull of the Sun,” Mithra sacrificed himself for world peace.
--He was buried in atomb and after three days rose again.
--His resurrection was celebrated every year.
--He was called “the Good Shepherd” and identified with both the Lamb and the Lion.
--He was considered the “Way, the Truth and the Light,” and the “Logos,” [Word] “Redeemer,” “Savior” and “Messiah.”
--His sacred day was Sunday, the “Lord’s Day,” hundreds of years before the appearance of Christ.
--Mithra had his principal festival on what was later to become Easter.
--His religion had a eucharist or “Lord’s Supper,” at which Mithra said, “He who shall nto eat of my body nor drink of my blood so that he may be one with me and I with him, shall not be saved.”
--“His annual sacrifice is the Passover of the Magi, a symbolical atonement of pledge of moral and physical regeneration.”



Krishna of India - Was worshiped around 3228 BC.


--Krishna was born of the Virgin Devaki (“Divine One”) on December 25.
--His earthly father was a carpenter, who was off in the city paying tax while Krishna was born.
--His birth was signaled by a star in the east and attended by angels and shepherds, at which time he was presented with spices.
--The heavenly hosts danced and sang at his birth.
--He was persecuted by a tyrant who ordered the slaughter of thousands of infants.
--Krishna was anointed on the head with oil by a woman whom he healed.
--He is depicted as having his foot on the head of a serpent.
--He worked miracles and wonders, raising the dead and healing lepers, the deaf and the blind.
--Krishna used parables to teach the people about charity and love, and he “lived poor and he loved the poor.”
--He castigated the clergy, charging them with “ambition and hypocrisy . . . Tradition says he fell victim to their vengeance.”
--Krishna’s “beloved disciple” was Arjuina or Ar-jouan (Jouhn).
--He was transfigured in front of his disciples.
--He gave his disciples the ability to work miracles.
--His path was “strewn with branches.”
--In some traditions he died on a tree or was crucified between two thieves.
--Krishna was killed around the age of 30, and the sun darkened at his death.
--He rose from the dead and ascended to heaven “in the sight of all men.”
--He was depicted on a cross with nail-holes in his feet, as well as having a heart emblem on his clothing.
--Krishna is the “lion of the tribe of Saki.”
--He was called the “Shepherd of God” and considered the “Redeemer,” “Firstborn,” “Sin-Bearer,” “Liberator,” “Universal Word.”
--He was deemed the “Son of God” and “our Lord and Savior,” who came to earth to die for man’s salvation.
--He was the second person of the Trinity.





Horus of Egypt - one of the oldest and most significant of the deities in the Ancient Egyptian religion around 3000 BC.

-Horus was born of the virgin Isis-Merion December 25 in a cave/manger with his birth being announced by a star in the East and attended by three wise men.
--His earthly father was named “Seb” (“Joseph”).
--He was of royal descent.
--At at 12, he was a child teacher in the Temple, and at 30, he was baptized having disappeared for 18 years.
--Horus was baptized in the river Eridanus or Iarutana (Jordan) by “Anup the Baptizer” (“John the Baptist”), who was decapitated.
--He had 12 desciples, two of who were his “witnesses” and were named “Anup” and “Aan” (the two “Johns”).
--He performed miracles, exorcised demons and raised El-Azarus (“El-Osiris”), from the dead.
--Horus walked on water.
--His personal epithet was “Iusa,” the “ever-becoming son” of “Ptah,” the “Father.” He was thus called “Holy Child.”
--He delivered a “Sermon on the Mount” and his followers recounted the “Sayings of Iusa.”
--Horus was transfigured on the Mount.
--He was crucified between two thieves, buried for three days in a tomb, and resurrected.
--He was also the “Way, the Truth, the Light,” “Messiah,” “God’s Anointed Son,” “the “Son of Man,” the “Good Shepherd,” the “Lamb of God,” the “Word made flesh,” the “Word of Truth,” etc.
--He was “the Fisher” and was associated with the Fish (“Ichthys”), Lamb and Lion.
--He came to fulfill the Law.
--Horus was called “the KRST,” or “Anointed One.”




The Bible has been decent as far as history goes, because it goes back 2,000 years, but as for any of the stories as fact? None that I know of. If the world ends, I'll believe it, but I don't think there's a chance that, that "prophecy" will ever come true.



I've studied religion the past two years, studying it in college right now, most have the same basic principle - just differ with area and the age of it. They have come and gone like bad hair-cuts.

[jetpilot]

It appears we both have faith, mine is in God, and yours is in the big bang theory or something along that line.

Exactly. RF81 thinks a "theory" is fact until disproved. You just can't argue with that.:eyeroll:

[Stardust]

And it puzzles me how someone could believe we were created from dirt, by an invisible man, then woman from a rib, then the garden with a talking snake and magical tree. Faith! :lmao:


"I refuse to prove that I exist" says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith, I am nothing." "Oh," says man, "but the Babel Fish is a dead give-away, isn't it? It proves You exist, and so therefore You don't." "Oh, I hadn't thought of that." says God, who promptly vanishes in a puff of logic."



Religion is the oldest fad there is, they have come and gone for thousands and thousands of years. I ask again, Christianity isn't near the oldest religion, so what were people believing before then? Did people just go to ****? What about the people who believed in other God's that were worshiped before the Christian God?

I'd rather believe in something than nothing. To believe in nothing means life is worthless. That makes that individual worthless.

As for the age of Christianity, don't begin the history at the birth or death of Christ. Christianity starts with Adam and Eve, for the entire bible story leads all in the old testament to the savior, that being Christ. The fulfillment of that was the birth-death-resurrection of Christ, but Christianity was at the beginning. Most of us don't realize that and try to date it with Judaism, that is not accurate.....

For you to make fun of and do a LMAO comment is pretty immature and completely disrespectful to all, not just those who believe in Christ, but to all that believe in any faith. And if that's the best "Argument" you can add to the debate, it obviously discounts your comments to be anything but ridiculous.

[TheRealVille]

Krishna of India - Was worshiped around 3228 BC.


--Krishna was born of the Virgin Devaki (“Divine One”) on December 25.
--His earthly father was a carpenter, who was off in the city paying tax while Krishna was born.
--His birth was signaled by a star in the east and attended by angels and shepherds, at which time he was presented with spices.
--The heavenly hosts danced and sang at his birth.
--He was persecuted by a tyrant who ordered the slaughter of thousands of infants.
--Krishna was anointed on the head with oil by a woman whom he healed.
--He is depicted as having his foot on the head of a serpent.
--He worked miracles and wonders, raising the dead and healing lepers, the deaf and the blind.
--Krishna used parables to teach the people about charity and love, and he “lived poor and he loved the poor.”
--He castigated the clergy, charging them with “ambition and hypocrisy . . . Tradition says he fell victim to their vengeance.”
--Krishna’s “beloved disciple” was Arjuina or Ar-jouan (Jouhn).
--He was transfigured in front of his disciples.
--He gave his disciples the ability to work miracles.
--His path was “strewn with branches.”
--In some traditions he died on a tree or was crucified between two thieves.
--Krishna was killed around the age of 30, and the sun darkened at his death.
--He rose from the dead and ascended to heaven “in the sight of all men.”
--He was depicted on a cross with nail-holes in his feet, as well as having a heart emblem on his clothing.
--Krishna is the “lion of the tribe of Saki.”
--He was called the “Shepherd of God” and considered the “Redeemer,” “Firstborn,” “Sin-Bearer,” “Liberator,” “Universal Word.”
--He was deemed the “Son of God” and “our Lord and Savior,” who came to earth to die for man’s salvation.
--He was the second person of the Trinity.





Horus of Egypt - one of the oldest and most significant of the deities in the Ancient Egyptian religion around 3000 BC.

-Horus was born of the virgin Isis-Merion December 25 in a cave/manger with his birth being announced by a star in the East and attended by three wise men.
--His earthly father was named “Seb” (“Joseph”).
--He was of royal descent.
--At at 12, he was a child teacher in the Temple, and at 30, he was baptized having disappeared for 18 years.
--Horus was baptized in the river Eridanus or Iarutana (Jordan) by “Anup the Baptizer” (“John the Baptist”), who was decapitated.
--He had 12 desciples, two of who were his “witnesses” and were named “Anup” and “Aan” (the two “Johns”).
--He performed miracles, exorcised demons and raised El-Azarus (“El-Osiris”), from the dead.
--Horus walked on water.
--His personal epithet was “Iusa,” the “ever-becoming son” of “Ptah,” the “Father.” He was thus called “Holy Child.”
--He delivered a “Sermon on the Mount” and his followers recounted the “Sayings of Iusa.”
--Horus was transfigured on the Mount.
--He was crucified between two thieves, buried for three days in a tomb, and resurrected.
--He was also the “Way, the Truth, the Light,” “Messiah,” “God’s Anointed Son,” “the “Son of Man,” the “Good Shepherd,” the “Lamb of God,” the “Word made flesh,” the “Word of Truth,” etc.
--He was “the Fisher” and was associated with the Fish (“Ichthys”), Lamb and Lion.
--He came to fulfill the Law.
--Horus was called “the KRST,” or “Anointed One.”

These are the two stories that have made me question more than anything. It is fact that they predate Jesus. I have often wondered if this is where the Jesus story came from.

[Mr.Kimball]

Actually Buddhism isn't a branch of hinduism and wasn't come up with in China. Completely different religions, with a gap of about 2000 years and was started in India or Nepal really. And that was just one example, people have been worshiping the earth/god's for about 30,000 years...long before Abraham was ever here.

My point is, it all goes with the time. There's been religions before and after Christianity, which is a branch of Judaism, and Islam is a branch of them both. It's no coincidence that the two most popular religions in the world, are two of the newest.

Jesus is liked by almost everybody, but his story had been around for awhile. I'll name 3 long before him, with the same back ground....





Mithra of Persia - was worshiped around 1500 BC.

--Mithra was born of a virgin on December 25 in a cave, and his birth was attended by shepherds bearing gifts.
--He was considered a great traveling teacher and master.
--He had 12 companions or disciples.
--Mithra’s followers were promised immortality.
--He performed miracles.
--As the “great bull of the Sun,” Mithra sacrificed himself for world peace.
--He was buried in atomb and after three days rose again.
--His resurrection was celebrated every year.
--He was called “the Good Shepherd” and identified with both the Lamb and the Lion.
--He was considered the “Way, the Truth and the Light,” and the “Logos,” [Word] “Redeemer,” “Savior” and “Messiah.”
--His sacred day was Sunday, the “Lord’s Day,” hundreds of years before the appearance of Christ.
--Mithra had his principal festival on what was later to become Easter.
--His religion had a eucharist or “Lord’s Supper,” at which Mithra said, “He who shall nto eat of my body nor drink of my blood so that he may be one with me and I with him, shall not be saved.”
--“His annual sacrifice is the Passover of the Magi, a symbolical atonement of pledge of moral and physical regeneration.”



Krishna of India - Was worshiped around 3228 BC.


--Krishna was born of the Virgin Devaki (“Divine One” on December 25.
--His earthly father was a carpenter, who was off in the city paying tax while Krishna was born.
--His birth was signaled by a star in the east and attended by angels and shepherds, at which time he was presented with spices.
--The heavenly hosts danced and sang at his birth.
--He was persecuted by a tyrant who ordered the slaughter of thousands of infants.
--Krishna was anointed on the head with oil by a woman whom he healed.
--He is depicted as having his foot on the head of a serpent.
--He worked miracles and wonders, raising the dead and healing lepers, the deaf and the blind.
--Krishna used parables to teach the people about charity and love, and he “lived poor and he loved the poor.”
--He castigated the clergy, charging them with “ambition and hypocrisy . . . Tradition says he fell victim to their vengeance.”
--Krishna’s “beloved disciple” was Arjuina or Ar-jouan (Jouhn).
--He was transfigured in front of his disciples.
--He gave his disciples the ability to work miracles.
--His path was “strewn with branches.”
--In some traditions he died on a tree or was crucified between two thieves.
--Krishna was killed around the age of 30, and the sun darkened at his death.
--He rose from the dead and ascended to heaven “in the sight of all men.”
--He was depicted on a cross with nail-holes in his feet, as well as having a heart emblem on his clothing.
--Krishna is the “lion of the tribe of Saki.”
--He was called the “Shepherd of God” and considered the “Redeemer,” “Firstborn,” “Sin-Bearer,” “Liberator,” “Universal Word.”
--He was deemed the “Son of God” and “our Lord and Savior,” who came to earth to die for man’s salvation.
--He was the second person of the Trinity.





Horus of Egypt - one of the oldest and most significant of the deities in the Ancient Egyptian religion around 3000 BC.

-Horus was born of the virgin Isis-Merion December 25 in a cave/manger with his birth being announced by a star in the East and attended by three wise men.
--His earthly father was named “Seb” (“Joseph”.
--He was of royal descent.
--At at 12, he was a child teacher in the Temple, and at 30, he was baptized having disappeared for 18 years.
--Horus was baptized in the river Eridanus or Iarutana (Jordan) by “Anup the Baptizer” (“John the Baptist”, who was decapitated.
--He had 12 desciples, two of who were his “witnesses” and were named “Anup” and “Aan” (the two “Johns”.
--He performed miracles, exorcised demons and raised El-Azarus (“El-Osiris”, from the dead.
--Horus walked on water.
--His personal epithet was “Iusa,” the “ever-becoming son” of “Ptah,” the “Father.” He was thus called “Holy Child.”
--He delivered a “Sermon on the Mount” and his followers recounted the “Sayings of Iusa.”
--Horus was transfigured on the Mount.
--He was crucified between two thieves, buried for three days in a tomb, and resurrected.
--He was also the “Way, the Truth, the Light,” “Messiah,” “God’s Anointed Son,” “the “Son of Man,” the “Good Shepherd,” the “Lamb of God,” the “Word made flesh,” the “Word of Truth,” etc.
--He was “the Fisher” and was associated with the Fish (“Ichthys”, Lamb and Lion.
--He came to fulfill the Law.
--Horus was called “the KRST,” or “Anointed One.”




The Bible has been decent as far as history goes, because it goes back 2,000 years, but as for any of the stories as fact? None that I know of. If the world ends, I'll believe it, but I don't think there's a chance that, that "prophecy" will ever come true.



I've studied religion the past two years, studying it in college right now, most have the same basic principle - just differ with area and the age of it. They have come and gone like bad hair-cuts.

Well now, hey, there ya go. I guess that one little sentence explains it all now. Dont cha just love these 30 day wonders!!!!

[TheRealVille]

Well now, hey, there ya go. I guess that one little sentence explains it all now. Dont cha just love these 30 day wonders!!!!

You as well as most, didn't really offer any dispute to his post. Just the same ole' common, attack the messenger stuff. Why not address the fact that those stories predate Jesus, so us with questions can study it. It is a fact that Horus predates Jesus by 3-4000 years.

[TheRealVille]

Well now, hey, there ya go. I guess that one little sentence explains it all now. Dont cha just love these 30 day wonders!!!!

Studying religion is more than most have, except I have a degree in Biblical studies, which of course after studying, left me with questions I couldn't answer. The two examples above being the two most prominent.

[Mr.Kimball]

You as well as most, didn't really offer any dispute to his post. Just the same ole' common, attack the messenger stuff. Why not address the fact that those stories predate Jesus, so us with questions can study it. It is a fact that Horus predates Jesus by 3-4000 years.

I guess for #1, whoever said that TheRealVille, me, or anyone else is supposed to know everything to begin with? Then there's #2. I guess because I wasted too much time on this with just my simple response to begin with. I have two sons that sound like they are about the same age as RF81 and both are premed students. What I've got are two Marcus Welby MD's , that are already experts on everything after only 2-3 years in the classroom, that in reality dont know squat yet. Not going to waste anymore time with a Howard Stern shockjock wannabee. I suspect that's all this cat is to begin with. However you can carry on, if you so wish, and be one of this little kids groupies if that's what you want Realville. Dont let me interrupt anything. You pour it on!!!!

How's that?

[Stardust]

Are these legends or can the be corroborated? Isn't Jesus the only individual to ever be proved to have existed? All of our religions have their own version of the bible, but Jesus was written about by those that were non-religious individuals of the time. Jesus did indeed exist and was never a "legend". Those who doubt his story in claiming his miracles did not happen or question the validity of what the Bible say's can debate that all they want, but Jesus was real. Not because Christians say so, but because others during the time have written and have said so.

Josephus wrote much about the Jewish Rabbi with the mystic powers. Many Roman citizens wrote (in the time of Jesus, not 100's of years afterwards) of the Jewish Man, Jesus. Jesus is and was real, the others that you discuss all come from those religions spiritual version of the bible, yet none have any non-religous wrtings about those individuals.

So, can you dispute the story of Jesus, yes, most certainly you can and you will. But can you dispute that Jesus existed on earth, was a real man that was witnessed by thousands of non-christian and non-Jew's. Most certainly. Jesus did exist, not because I say so and because I beleive in his powers, but he is proven to me because of those who wrote about him DURING THE TIME THAT THEY WITNESSED HIM!

So if he has been proven to exist, no one that claims to be educated can say that it's a myth.............................................

They do not have to believe of his resurection, but the story of Jesus and his crucifi***ion are all true, proven in many Roman writings!

Actually Buddhism isn't a branch of hinduism and wasn't come up with in China. Completely different religions, with a gap of about 2000 years and was started in India or Nepal really. And that was just one example, people have been worshiping the earth/god's for about 30,000 years...long before Abraham was ever here.

My point is, it all goes with the time. There's been religions before and after Christianity, which is a branch of Judaism, and Islam is a branch of them both. It's no coincidence that the two most popular religions in the world, are two of the newest.

Jesus is liked by almost everybody, but his story had been around for awhile. I'll name 3 long before him, with the same back ground....




Mithra of Persia - was worshiped around 1500 BC.

--Mithra was born of a virgin on December 25 in a cave, and his birth was attended by shepherds bearing gifts.
--He was considered a great traveling teacher and master.
--He had 12 companions or disciples.
--Mithra’s followers were promised immortality.
--He performed miracles.
--As the “great bull of the Sun,” Mithra sacrificed himself for world peace.
--He was buried in atomb and after three days rose again.
--His resurrection was celebrated every year.
--He was called “the Good Shepherd” and identified with both the Lamb and the Lion.
--He was considered the “Way, the Truth and the Light,” and the “Logos,” [Word] “Redeemer,” “Savior” and “Messiah.”
--His sacred day was Sunday, the “Lord’s Day,” hundreds of years before the appearance of Christ.
--Mithra had his principal festival on what was later to become Easter.
--His religion had a eucharist or “Lord’s Supper,” at which Mithra said, “He who shall nto eat of my body nor drink of my blood so that he may be one with me and I with him, shall not be saved.”
--“His annual sacrifice is the Passover of the Magi, a symbolical atonement of pledge of moral and physical regeneration.”



Krishna of India - Was worshiped around 3228 BC.


--Krishna was born of the Virgin Devaki (“Divine One”) on December 25.
--His earthly father was a carpenter, who was off in the city paying tax while Krishna was born.
--His birth was signaled by a star in the east and attended by angels and shepherds, at which time he was presented with spices.
--The heavenly hosts danced and sang at his birth.
--He was persecuted by a tyrant who ordered the slaughter of thousands of infants.
--Krishna was anointed on the head with oil by a woman whom he healed.
--He is depicted as having his foot on the head of a serpent.
--He worked miracles and wonders, raising the dead and healing lepers, the deaf and the blind.
--Krishna used parables to teach the people about charity and love, and he “lived poor and he loved the poor.”
--He castigated the clergy, charging them with “ambition and hypocrisy . . . Tradition says he fell victim to their vengeance.”
--Krishna’s “beloved disciple” was Arjuina or Ar-jouan (Jouhn).
--He was transfigured in front of his disciples.
--He gave his disciples the ability to work miracles.
--His path was “strewn with branches.”
--In some traditions he died on a tree or was crucified between two thieves.
--Krishna was killed around the age of 30, and the sun darkened at his death.
--He rose from the dead and ascended to heaven “in the sight of all men.”
--He was depicted on a cross with nail-holes in his feet, as well as having a heart emblem on his clothing.
--Krishna is the “lion of the tribe of Saki.”
--He was called the “Shepherd of God” and considered the “Redeemer,” “Firstborn,” “Sin-Bearer,” “Liberator,” “Universal Word.”
--He was deemed the “Son of God” and “our Lord and Savior,” who came to earth to die for man’s salvation.
--He was the second person of the Trinity.





Horus of Egypt - one of the oldest and most significant of the deities in the Ancient Egyptian religion around 3000 BC.

-Horus was born of the virgin Isis-Merion December 25 in a cave/manger with his birth being announced by a star in the East and attended by three wise men.
--His earthly father was named “Seb” (“Joseph”).
--He was of royal descent.
--At at 12, he was a child teacher in the Temple, and at 30, he was baptized having disappeared for 18 years.
--Horus was baptized in the river Eridanus or Iarutana (Jordan) by “Anup the Baptizer” (“John the Baptist”), who was decapitated.
--He had 12 desciples, two of who were his “witnesses” and were named “Anup” and “Aan” (the two “Johns”).
--He performed miracles, exorcised demons and raised El-Azarus (“El-Osiris”), from the dead.
--Horus walked on water.
--His personal epithet was “Iusa,” the “ever-becoming son” of “Ptah,” the “Father.” He was thus called “Holy Child.”
--He delivered a “Sermon on the Mount” and his followers recounted the “Sayings of Iusa.”
--Horus was transfigured on the Mount.
--He was crucified between two thieves, buried for three days in a tomb, and resurrected.
--He was also the “Way, the Truth, the Light,” “Messiah,” “God’s Anointed Son,” “the “Son of Man,” the “Good Shepherd,” the “Lamb of God,” the “Word made flesh,” the “Word of Truth,” etc.
--He was “the Fisher” and was associated with the Fish (“Ichthys”), Lamb and Lion.
--He came to fulfill the Law.
--Horus was called “the KRST,” or “Anointed One.”




The Bible has been decent as far as history goes, because it goes back 2,000 years, but as for any of the stories as fact? None that I know of. If the world ends, I'll believe it, but I don't think there's a chance that, that "prophecy" will ever come true.



I've studied religion the past two years, studying it in college right now, most have the same basic principle - just differ with area and the age of it. They have come and gone like bad hair-cuts.

[Mr.Kimball]

Are these legends or can the be corroborated? Isn't Jesus the only individual to ever be proved to have existed? All of our religions have their own version of the bible, but Jesus was written about by those that were non-religious individuals of the time. Jesus did indeed exist and was never a "legend". Those who doubt his story in claiming his miracles did not happen or question the validity of what the Bible say's can debate that all they want, but Jesus was real. Not because Christians say so, but because others during the time have written and have said so.

Josephus wrote much about the Jewish Rabbi with the mystic powers. Many Roman citizens wrote (in the time of Jesus, not 100's of years afterwards) of the Jewish Man, Jesus. Jesus is and was real, the others that you discuss all come from those religions spiritual version of the bible, yet none have any non-religous wrtings about those individuals.

So, can you dispute the story of Jesus, yes, most certainly you can and you will. But can you dispute that Jesus existed on earth, was a real man that was witnessed by thousands of non-christian and non-Jew's. Most certainly. Jesus did exist, not because I say so and because I beleive in his powers, but he is proven to me because of those who wrote about him DURING THE TIME THAT THEY WITNESSED HIM!

So if he has been proven to exist, no one that claims to be educated can say that it's a myth.............................................

They do not have to believe of his resurection, but the story of Jesus and his crucifi***ion are all true, proven in many Roman writings!

A much better response than what I had to offer. Very good dusty.

[Stardust]

^ ty

[TheRealVille]

Are these legends or can the be corroborated? Isn't Jesus the only individual to ever be proved to have existed? All of our religions have their own version of the bible, but Jesus was written about by those that were non-religious individuals of the time. Jesus did indeed exist and was never a "legend". Those who doubt his story in claiming his miracles did not happen or question the validity of what the Bible say's can debate that all they want, but Jesus was real. Not because Christians say so, but because others during the time have written and have said so.

Josephus wrote much about the Jewish Rabbi with the mystic powers. Many Roman citizens wrote (in the time of Jesus, not 100's of years afterwards) of the Jewish Man, Jesus. Jesus is and was real, the others that you discuss all come from those religions spiritual version of the bible, yet none have any non-religous wrtings about those individuals.

So, can you dispute the story of Jesus, yes, most certainly you can and you will. But can you dispute that Jesus existed on earth, was a real man that was witnessed by thousands of non-christian and non-Jew's. Most certainly. Jesus did exist, not because I say so and because I beleive in his powers, but he is proven to me because of those who wrote about him DURING THE TIME THAT THEY WITNESSED HIM!

So if he has been proven to exist, no one that claims to be educated can say that it's a myth.............................................

They do not have to believe of his resurection, but the story of Jesus and his crucifi***ion are all true, proven in many Roman writings!

So, you don't wonder about His story being almost exactly like a couple of stories that are about 3000 years older. In my studies, I never saw where He was proven to exist. Show me where to find some of those writings that you speak of. I know about Josephus, he was born after Jesus died, so he didn't see him. A lot of what Josephus wrote about Jesus is believed to have beeen added to at around the 300's.

[Stardust]

An excellent book for you to read is "Jesus lived in India" by Holger Kersten. Though I question the direction that the book takes, it provides tremendous detail of finding the writings of the times of Jesus. It's a very long ready due to the small print, but it will lead you to all of the authors that wrote about Jesus's time.

This shouldn't even be debatable. There is no historian that doubts that Jesus existed as a man. This is not Stardust rant, but one easy enough to research.

[Stardust]

Just doing a Google search brings up countless Judaism books that writes of the existence of Jesus. Yet the traditional Jew does not believe that Jesus was the Mesiah, they do acknowledge his existence.

Reaville, you are intelligent enough, are you seriously doubing that Jesus existed? I have zero issue with anyone who questions what he did, but to doubt that he existed????

As for your earlier comment about the writings of another mesiah, there have been many that have said that their messiah has came. But let's be real, it would be easy to claim of a messiah coming, it was forecast in the bible from the very beginning. They were all telling stories of the forthcoming messiah, just as the Tradition Jews are still waiting for theirs now.

[TheRealVille]

An excellent book for you to read is "Jesus lived in India" by Holger Kersten. Though I question the direction that the book takes, it provides tremendous detail of finding the writings of the times of Jesus. It's a very long ready due to the small print, but it will lead you to all of the authors that wrote about Jesus's time.

This shouldn't even be debatable. There is no historian that doubts that Jesus existed as a man. This is not Stardust rant, but one easy enough to research.

This might be true, but doesn't the story of Jesus strike you as odd that it mimics at least two more earlier stories? Look at his story compared to the two below, and they are 3000 years earlier.

Krishna of India - Was worshiped around 3228 BC.


--Krishna was born of the Virgin Devaki (“Divine One” on December 25.
--His earthly father was a carpenter, who was off in the city paying tax while Krishna was born.--His birth was signaled by a star in the east and attended by angels and shepherds, at which time he was presented with spices.--The heavenly hosts danced and sang at his birth.
--He was persecuted by a tyrant who ordered the slaughter of thousands of infants.
--Krishna was anointed on the head with oil by a woman whom he healed.
--He is depicted as having his foot on the head of a serpent.
--He worked miracles and wonders, raising the dead and healing lepers, the deaf and the blind.
--Krishna used parables to teach the people about charity and love, and he “lived poor and he loved the poor.”
--He castigated the clergy, charging them with “ambition and hypocrisy . . . Tradition says he fell victim to their vengeance.”
--Krishna’s “beloved disciple” was Arjuina or Ar-jouan (Jouhn).
--He was transfigured in front of his disciples.
--He gave his disciples the ability to work miracles.
--His path was “strewn with branches.”
--In some traditions he died on a tree or was crucified between two thieves.
--Krishna was killed around the age of 30, and the sun darkened at his death.
--He rose from the dead and ascended to heaven “in the sight of all men.”
--He was depicted on a cross with nail-holes in his feet, as well as having a heart emblem on his clothing.
--Krishna is the “lion of the tribe of Saki.”
--He was called the “Shepherd of God” and considered the “Redeemer,” “Firstborn,” “Sin-Bearer,” “Liberator,” “Universal Word.”
--He was deemed the “Son of God” and “our Lord and Savior,” who came to earth to die for man’s salvation.
--He was the second person of the Trinity.





Horus of Egypt - one of the oldest and most significant of the deities in the Ancient Egyptian religion around 3000 BC.

-Horus was born of the virgin Isis-Merion December 25 in a cave/manger with his birth being announced by a star in the East and attended by three wise men.
--His earthly father was named “Seb” (“Joseph”.
--He was of royal descent.
--At at 12, he was a child teacher in the Temple, and at 30, he was baptized having disappeared for 18 years.--Horus was baptized in the river Eridanus or Iarutana (Jordan) by “Anup the Baptizer” (“John the Baptist”, who was decapitated.
--He had 12 desciples, two of who were his “witnesses” and were named “Anup” and “Aan” (the two “Johns”.
--He performed miracles, exorcised demons and raised El-Azarus (“El-Osiris”, from the dead.
--Horus walked on water.
--His personal epithet was “Iusa,” the “ever-becoming son” of “Ptah,” the “Father.” He was thus called “Holy Child.”
--He delivered a “Sermon on the Mount” and his followers recounted the “Sayings of Iusa.”
--Horus was transfigured on the Mount.
--He was crucified between two thieves, buried for three days in a tomb, and resurrected.
--He was also the “Way, the Truth, the Light,” “Messiah,” “God’s Anointed Son,” “the “Son of Man,” the “Good Shepherd,” the “Lamb of God,” the “Word made flesh,” the “Word of Truth,” etc.--He was “the Fisher” and was associated with the Fish (“Ichthys”, Lamb and Lion.
--He came to fulfill the Law.
--Horus was called “the KRST,” or “Anointed One.”

[Stardust]

This might be true, but doesn't the story of Jesus strike you as odd that it mimics at least two more earlier stories? Look at his story compared to the two below, and they are 3000 years earlier.

I with all honesty know nothing of these stories. I've never studied them, nor do I have a desire to study them. I have my faith and my belief. I'm not in a debate to prove anything. My goal in this thread to to state that Jesus is proven to have existed. Not through biblical teachings, but proof in non religious writings. If you have studied the stories above, can they be corroborated in other historical non religious writings? I'm not stating they are or are not true, but the story of a man named Jesus, who was crucified on the cross that duplicates the story of Jesus has been written about by non-Christians. Thus, I hold to my beliefs of Jesus.

I also have no qualms with your beliefs. I choose to live a life of hope and I cannot relate to those who hold no such hopes for eternal life. If you see me as a fool, see me that way, I honestly do not concern myself with how you or anyone else see's me :Thumbs:

[TheRealVille]

I with all honesty know nothing of these stories. I've never studied them, nor do I have a desire to study them. I have my faith and my belief. I'm not in a debate to prove anything. My goal in this thread to to state that Jesus is proven to have existed. Not through biblical teachings, but proof in non religious writings. If you have studied the stories above, can they be corroborated in other historical non religious writings? I'm not stating they are or are not true, but the story of a man named Jesus, who was crucified on the cross that duplicates the story of Jesus has been written about by non-Christians. Thus, I hold to my beliefs of Jesus.

I also have no qualms with your beliefs. I choose to live a life of hope and I cannot relate to those who hold no such hopes for eternal life. If you see me as a fool, see me that way, I honestly do not concern myself with how you or anyone else see's me :Thumbs:

I'm not saying whether He is real or not. That is not the point I was trying to make. The point being, that Jesus's story mimics other stories from thousands of years earlier. I am not trying to say whether those other stories are about true men either, just that they were told 3000 years earlier and Jesus's story almost dead copies them. He walked on water, so did they, and so on.

[TheRealVille]

I also have no qualms with your beliefs. I choose to live a life of hope and I cannot relate to those who hold no such hopes for eternal life. If you see me as a fool, see me that way, I honestly do not concern myself with how you or anyone else see's me :Thumbs:

You hold to blind faith. If God holds me accountable for wondering if what I have heard all my life is real, so be it. If God made me, I'm sure he shouldn't mind if I use the brain He gave me to think with.

[Stardust]

You hold to blind faith. If God holds me accountable for wondering if what I have heard all my life is real, so be it. If God made me, I'm sure he shouldn't mind if I use the brain He gave me to think with.

Then you my friend do not believe, because it is "by faith alone" that we are instructed. To question means you do not entrust. That is you free-will, the free-will that he says we all have.