[TheRealVille]

If it was up to the weak such as yourself we would not even have a country. Like it or not our country was made with blood and tears. So when did God apoint you to judge. If that is the case I have "murdered" many. If thats the case then God will judge me, not you. Until then why don't you do us all a favor and shut your mouth.

I'll post my opinion as I see fit. I left you my home address in a PM, if you feel the need to contact me.

[Wildcatk23]

I'll post my opinion as I see fit. I left you my home address in a PM, if you feel the need to contact me.

hh:

[TheRealVille]

hh:

If he wants to get on behind a computer screen and talk to a man with the kind of authority like he is talking, I figured I would just give him a chance to come to my house and shut my mouth for me.

[Wildcatk23]

If he wants to get on behind a computer screen and talk to a man with the kind of authority like he is talking, I figured I would just give him a chance to come to my house and shut my mouth for me.

People get so offensive and tore up over other peoples opinions. Just because someone doesn't think like you, doesn't mean you have to threaten them

[TheRealVille]

People get so offensive and tore up over other peoples opinions. Just because someone doesn't think like you, doesn't mean you have to threaten them

Do you think he should tell me to shut my mouth when the OP asked for thoughts? The OP didn't ask for just one-sided opinions. I didn't threaten him btw, I just offered him a chance to come and shut my mouth for himself, like he told me to. I'm cool with his opinion, it's him that isn't cool with mine. The camera in the video is obvious. What isn't obvious, is the RPG that they were talking about. If they weren't 100 % sure the guys had an RPG, it's murder, plain and simple.

[Wildcatk23]

Do you think he should tell me to shut my mouth when the OP asked for thoughts? The OP didn't ask for just one-sided opinions. I didn't threaten him btw, I just offered him a chance to come and shut my mouth for himself, like he told me to. I'm cool with his opinion, it's him that isn't cool with mine. The camera in the video is obvious. What isn't obvious, is the RPG that they were talking about. If they weren't 100 % sure the guys had an RPG, it's murder, plain and simple.

We agree to disagree, But thats cool,

[Matman]

If he wants to get on behind a computer screen and talk to a man with the kind of authority like he is talking, I figured I would just give him a chance to come to my house and shut my mouth for me.

I dont sit behind a computer screen. I just sent you a pm with my name. We can set something up with EKCC where neither will end up in jail. And yes i can shut your mouth.

[Matman]

Do you think he should tell me to shut my mouth when the OP asked for thoughts? The OP didn't ask for just one-sided opinions. I didn't threaten him btw, I just offered him a chance to come and shut my mouth for himself, like he told me to. I'm cool with his opinion, it's him that isn't cool with mine. The camera in the video is obvious. What isn't obvious, is the RPG that they were talking about. If they weren't 100 % sure the guys had an RPG, it's murder, plain and simple.

The thing that is obvious is that you have never been to war. You have never been in a war zone. You dont have a clue to as what war is. And yes i take offense to what you are saying. If you are calling them murderers you are calling me a murderer. I have done the same thing and killed many people in combat doing similar actions. I have done this for my country. What you are doing is calling me a murderer. No different then people calling troops returning from vietnam baby killers. If you want to call me a murderer for serving my country then fine, but do it to my face. Like i said i sent you my name and where i live. Its not hard to find me.

[thecavemaster]

The thing that is obvious is that you have never been to war. You have never been in a war zone. You dont have a clue to as what war is. And yes i take offense to what you are saying. If you are calling them murderers you are calling me a murderer. I have done the same thing and killed many people in combat doing similar actions. I have done this for my country. What you are doing is calling me a murderer. No different then people calling troops returning from vietnam baby killers. If you want to call me a murderer for serving my country then fine, but do it to my face. Like i said i sent you my name and where i live. Its not hard to find me.

No doubt, this is a very delicate, sensitive subject. I appreciate that. However, Matman, wouldn't it be true that you went into combat, at least in part, to protect a person's right to get on a public forum and say that the very action you took was murder? The Taliban would not allow dissent. The Chinese government does not allow dissent. But, we do. We don't just embrace the right of those who agree with us to talk. Is that accurate?

[Matman]

No doubt, this is a very delicate, sensitive subject. I appreciate that. However, Matman, wouldn't it be true that you went into combat, at least in part, to protect a person's right to get on a public forum and say that the very action you took was murder? The Taliban would not allow dissent. The Chinese government does not allow dissent. But, we do. We don't just embrace the right of those who agree with us to talk. Is that accurate?

I agree. However I do not believe i have to sit quietly by and take the abuse of being called a murderer. I see those people every day and I am not one. I agree that a better person would let it be. However I have never said that I am one of those better people. I am flawed. I am going to defend myself. I will defend those who sacrifice so much. When I am at war i will defend those here at all cost. While I am here i will defend those at war. They do not deserve to be judged by someone sitting safely in Paintsville where everything is so simple. While he was sun bathing on the beach this past weekend someone was giving their life. Then he puts them down.

[TheRealVille]

I agree. However I do not believe i have to sit quietly by and take the abuse of being called a murderer. I see those people every day and I am not one. I agree that a better person would let it be. However I have never said that I am one of those better people. I am flawed. I am going to defend myself. I will defend those who sacrifice so much. When I am at war i will defend those here at all cost. While I am here i will defend those at war. They do not deserve to be judged by someone sitting safely in Paintsville where everything is so simple. While he was sun bathing on the beach this past weekend someone was giving their life. Then he puts them down.

The op asked for thoughts, you gave yours and I gave mine, last time I checked on here it is allowed for me to have opinions on this forum just the same as you can have them. I didn't call anybody a murderer for killing in war. It isn't clear that those guys had weapons though. Nuff said.

[Matman]

Its not enough said. You do not have to have a weapon in Iraq to be hostile. I have seen cell phones do more damage than an rpg.
Lets be clear about what a camera can and are being used for.
1. They video tape IED attacks and ambushes and use them for recruitment tools.
2. They video tape our actions and habbits and use them as training tools.
3. They video tape our equipment in order to design better bombs. They can get the measurements of mine rollers, engine blocks, gunner and driver positions from the tapes.

[thecavemaster]

I agree. However I do not believe i have to sit quietly by and take the abuse of being called a murderer. I see those people every day and I am not one. I agree that a better person would let it be. However I have never said that I am one of those better people. I am flawed. I am going to defend myself. I will defend those who sacrifice so much. When I am at war i will defend those here at all cost. While I am here i will defend those at war. They do not deserve to be judged by someone sitting safely in Paintsville where everything is so simple. While he was sun bathing on the beach this past weekend someone was giving their life. Then he puts them down.

In every war that has ever been fought in recorded history, a few "bad apple" soldiers have proven themselves mercenaries: cruel, heartless, basically, "murderers" using war as a cover for their treachery. America cannot claim exception. However, for the overwhelming majority of soldiers, I think war is a "****" that burns the memory as long as life fills the body... not to mention when it is almost impossible to tell an enemy from a friend in the "hot zone." It was said in Vietman that the enemy was everywhere around and nowhere to be found at the same time. It seems Iraq and Afghanistan are like that as well.

[Aslan]

I dont sit behind a computer screen. I just sent you a pm with my name. We can set something up with EKCC where neither will end up in jail. And yes i can shut your mouth.

Wowewow.

[Captain Backdoor]

I dont sit behind a computer screen. I just sent you a pm with my name. We can set something up with EKCC where neither will end up in jail. And yes i can shut your mouth.

:Thumbs:

[Uncle Fester]

Matman...

It just seems like you are wanting to be the ultimate authority here becuase you went to war, and I do appreciate that but nobody forced you to go. You've seen enough gratitude on this thread, and I think you can stop patting yourself on the back now. You just seem waaaay too proud to be admitting that you killed people. I don't consider you a murderer by any means, but I don't think that you killing people who fight with primative weapons halfway across the world makes us safter at all. No offense....Just my opionion which is the whole point of this site.

I just don't see any point in this war, or the fact that any American soldier is dying or has to come home and fight their struggles with PTSD. Doesn't look like you're having any problems because you seem pretty proud of yourself... unlike others that I have met that regretted pulling the trigger on people in Iraq and Afghanistan. They can never get over it, and they will come home completely disagreeing with what is taking place. Just saying there are two sides to everything including soliders who come home safe. Not all of them think like you.

[Matman]

Matman...

It just seems like you are wanting to be the ultimate authority here becuase you went to war, and I do appreciate that but nobody forced you to go. You've seen enough gratitude on this thread, and I think you can stop patting yourself on the back now. You just seem waaaay too proud to be admitting that you killed people. I don't consider you a murderer by any means, but I don't think that you killing people who fight with primative weapons halfway across the world makes us safter at all. No offense....Just my opionion which is the whole point of this site.

I just don't see any point in this war, or the fact that any American soldier is dying or has to come home and fight their struggles with PTSD. Doesn't look like you're having any problems because you seem pretty proud of yourself... unlike others that I have met that regretted pulling the trigger on people in Iraq and Afghanistan. They can never get over it, and they will come home completely disagreeing with what is taking place. Just saying there are two sides to everything including soliders who come home safe. Not all of them think like you.

Thats because you do not know me. I am deffinately not proud of having taken the life of anyone. I am horrified at some of the lives that have been ended due to this. I'm not patting myself on the back. However i have been in those situations. I understand them better than someone who has not. I used to consider myself a peacefull person. However things changed with experiences. While some have shown gratitude others still do not understand the hardships. You must be one to assume i am proud. Just because i can set behind a screen and talk about it (which i find therapeutic) does not mean i am proud and could tell my kids about many of the things i have done. However i still do not see how people could set here and put down people for doing something they have no idea about. By the way their primitive weapons pack alot more fire power than our M4s do. Their EFP's can cut through any armour we have. You really need to quit getting your info from TV. They utilize some technologies better than we do.

[launchpad4]

I've seen many people arguing for or against this being murder. I have heard stories of the war in first hand accounts and on tv. The loss of life is not something to be looked at lightly. However, the actions taken by American personel have to be viewed through the eyes of those involved. We can sit in our air conditioned house, drive our cars, go do whatever we feel like and second guess actions taken in a split second by someone a world away. These men aren't murderers going around shooting whomever they wish. They were placed in position that their decision would have immediate consequences. This is a problem that many people have in our society. They look at things through their opinions of well I wouldn't have shot them. Now those of you crying murder, how many times did you watch the video? Did you watch the video having been shot at before by people around you? How about watching not being able to be around family and friends for months at a time? There are circumstances that many people don't think about when watching things like this. These are people that have volunteered to protect our freedoms, do give us the right to get on sites like this and speak our minds. These are monsters or people with some type of vendetta against a nationality. They are simply people that are trying to do their job the best they can. I'm sure all of you have messed up at work, not turned in a report on time or took a late lunch. I'm not even saying that this was a mistake they may have been armed, all I'm saying is that these are American heroes and they should be treated as such.

[DevilsWin]

Seems like these pilots were playing Rainbow 6 instead of honoring the uniform.

[launchpad4]

Seems like these pilots volunteered to protect your right to be a ****!

[DevilsWin]

Seems like these pilots volunteered to protect your right to be a ****!

They were just returning the favor Duck Face. Only difference is they dishonored the uniform.

[launchpad4]

I wathced both videos that are posted on here and in my opinion DW I would have done the same thing. The guys appeared to be armed in the videos that I saw. Their language was nothing out of the ordinary. Sure they used some foul language but this is war not prime-time television. We aren't asking our troops to be saints we're asking them to defend our freedom. Also, it has long been standard for insurgent troops to surround themselves with non-combatants as to gain favour in local opinions for their cause. We've seen this throughout the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and in Somalia. Terrorists do this because they know that it will lead to an undesirable opinion of US forces. I also don't understand what the big deal is about. The first video is in my opinion complete garbage and total liberal propaganda. Sure anyone can zoom in and freeze frame an image and get a better view. But these guys were circling around and had to go with the intel they had. Which was armed combatants in an area in which armed combatants were known to be in were gathering together. Also the suspicious nature of the people on the ground raise red flags in my opinion. If you aren't doing anything wrong why crouch down at the corner of a building taking a stance typical of someone shooting an RPG. If these were just reporters then I would say it is partly their fault for the mannerisms they used. They seemed to be attempting to fire on the Americans in a couple instances. Also why would someone be carrying around a long boom microphone and a camera with a telescopic lense that both look quite similar to weapons being used by the insurrgents. To me that's like putting on a brown shirt and antlers and running through the forest on deer season. I think that everybody on this site would have done the same thing. Keep in mind too that they had to ask for permission to fire on the group and the truck so its not like we have rogue troops going around killing innocent people. This is war, this isn't call of duty you don't get another life, you can't reset it from a checkpoint. I can quote famous war quotes all day long but in the end the two that purtain the most to this instance are these: "War is ****" and "The object of war isn't to die for your country, its to make the other B*****d die for his."

[DevilsWin]

I wathced both videos that are posted on here and in my opinion DW I would have done the same thing. The guys appeared to be armed in the videos that I saw. Their language was nothing out of the ordinary. Sure they used some foul language but this is war not prime-time television. We aren't asking our troops to be saints we're asking them to defend our freedom. Also, it has long been standard for insurgent troops to surround themselves with non-combatants as to gain favour in local opinions for their cause. We've seen this throughout the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and in Somalia. Terrorists do this because they know that it will lead to an undesirable opinion of US forces. I also don't understand what the big deal is about. The first video is in my opinion complete garbage and total liberal propaganda. Sure anyone can zoom in and freeze frame an image and get a better view. But these guys were circling around and had to go with the intel they had. Which was armed combatants in an area in which armed combatants were known to be in were gathering together. Also the suspicious nature of the people on the ground raise red flags in my opinion. If you aren't doing anything wrong why crouch down at the corner of a building taking a stance typical of someone shooting an RPG. If these were just reporters then I would say it is partly their fault for the mannerisms they used. They seemed to be attempting to fire on the Americans in a couple instances. Also why would someone be carrying around a long boom microphone and a camera with a telescopic lense that both look quite similar to weapons being used by the insurrgents. To me that's like putting on a brown shirt and antlers and running through the forest on deer season. I think that everybody on this site would have done the same thing. Keep in mind too that they had to ask for permission to fire on the group and the truck so its not like we have rogue troops going around killing innocent people. This is war, this isn't call of duty you don't get another life, you can't reset it from a checkpoint. I can quote famous war quotes all day long but in the end the two that purtain the most to this instance are these: "War is ****" and "The object of war isn't to die for your country, its to make the other B*****d die for his."

People like you disgrace the uniform. It happens.

[Matman]

People like you disgrace the uniform. It happens.

How did they digrace anything? Just tell me, if you saw a guy in a feild with an AK47 and you were in a helicopter what would you do? If you were driving down a highway and you saw a guy video taping you and a guy near by crouched down with a cell phone, what would you do? What would you do if you were the lead vehicle and a child no older than 10 ran in front of you trying to stop your convoy? Honestly I want to know.

[launchpad4]

People like you disgrace the uniform. It happens.

How would I disgrace the uniform, in my opinion after watching both videos I believe that the guys clearly had weapons and I also believe they had intent on using the RPG's that they were carrying on the helicopter. I'm not sure but if I'm not mistaken its kinda the point of war to shoot the people shooting at you or those about to. Have you even watched the videos with an open mind or is it that CNN or MSNBC said that this happened and you automatically take their word for it. Do you also get that tingling feeling up your leg whenever Obama speaks?

[DevilsWin]

You see what you wanna see I guess. I see a couple trigger happy Mavericks acting like they're playing a video game.

I could easily tell that the guy crouching at the corner of the building was holding a camera with a big lens. No reason for them to shoot up the van either.

This is the kind of stuff that creates more American enemies. These guys did us no favors and only made us less safe.

[DevilsWin]

How would I disgrace the uniform, in my opinion after watching both videos I believe that the guys clearly had weapons and I also believe they had intent on using the RPG's that they were carrying on the helicopter. I'm not sure but if I'm not mistaken its kinda the point of war to shoot the people shooting at you or those about to. Have you even watched the videos with an open mind or is it that CNN or MSNBC said that this happened and you automatically take their word for it. Do you also get that tingling feeling up your leg whenever Obama speaks?

I watched both videos and had heard nothing about this prior to or since reading this thread.

[Matman]

You see what you wanna see I guess. I see a couple trigger happy Mavericks acting like they're playing a video game.

I could easily tell that the guy crouching at the corner of the building was holding a camera with a big lens. No reason for them to shoot up the van either.

This is the kind of stuff that creates more American enemies. These guys did us no favors and only made us less safe.

Those "Mavericks" are keeping troops safe. They let us use less patrols. They make it safe for the patrols we do use. You appreciate those trigger happy gamers when youve been ambushed and stuck in the middle of no where unable to see the next attack coming. The video camera is one of the enemies biggest weapons. They set us up. They video tape us getting ambushed and use to it to show their force. Then when we hit them they use it to cry foul. Its a win win situation for them. The van was there picking up bodies and possible weapons. They could have been there to give them a proper funeral. They more likely were there to hide the idenity of the men. This would hinder any investigation and questioning that follows.

[launchpad4]

You see what you wanna see I guess. I see a couple trigger happy Mavericks acting like they're playing a video game.

I could easily tell that the guy crouching at the corner of the building was holding a camera with a big lens. No reason for them to shoot up the van either.

This is the kind of stuff that creates more American enemies. These guys did us no favors and only made us less safe.

All I'm saying is that by watching the video the people on it looked and acted suspicious. So in my opinion if you don't want to get shot at I don't know maybe not carry cameras and microphones like they are weapons and that look like weapons. Its kinda like the baseball kid, if you don't want tased don't run on the field during a game. I think that what they soldiers did was justified and that it is common knowledge that terrorists use innocent people to be human shields and stir up controversy and support for their cause. There's no denying this fact. It has been well documented throughout the last 20 years that they use this tactic. I'm also saying that this is war, war isn't pretty, its not a movie with these romanticized themes, if you don't support our troops who are there fighting a war that they didn't start then I can't see how you can justify calling yourself patriotic. I also believe that they did the right thing. The area was known to have insurgents in it, these people apear to be armed and only after receiving permission to engage their targets did they engage. These soldiers aren't just flying around shooting whoever they wish. They followed the proper protocal and eliminated a target that they viewed as a threat to forces on the ground.

[PC_You_Know]

"god" doesn't care about ROE. It's murder.

God was behind the deaths of many people as well. I don't think the great flood or the parting and closing of the dead sea was exactly merciful to many.

But as to the subject posted by the OP, I fully support what was done here. I have 2 family members and numerous friends who have been to Iraq on more than 1 tour, and this is what happens over there. Cell phones and other such ordinary objects here in the United States are behind things much bigger than the death of 1 person in Iraq.