[Ballmom1]

I don't think you're understanding my point of view. I don't care who caused the mess. Kentucky has plenty of ways to alleviate the cost of this problem. If you think it won't impact education, then you're just plain silly. That is my focus. We can go on a witch hunt about why democrats are idiots and republicans (especially that barely functioning moron Matt Bevin) are evil, but that isn't my issue. Y'all up north are hard to find the key points.

And so is the beginning of the problem.

[TheRealThing]

People vote what they believe will be best for their wallets and that is what will ultimately destroy our economy and cost us our security and wealth as a nation. What is actually best for our wallets is a strictly limited government that keeps its hands out of our pockets to the greatest extent possible. However, it is impossible to convince voters of that fact when politicians continue to insist that free lunches provided by the government are really free.

[YOUTUBE="Milton Friedman - The Free Lunch Myth"]YmqoCHR14n8[/YOUTUBE]

Ultimate Irony, Americans are paying, for their own destructive end.

[TheRealThing]

And so is the beginning of the problem.

Hi there Ballmom. Burying one's head in the sand only works till the tide comes in! nicker:

[Real Badman]

There is a reason I’m not a true republican. Balloon, you purposefully went around my post to try and find a weak point. Between Bevin and Beshear I could care less about both of them. Bevin however is a the biggest moron in politics since Jimmy Carter.

First of all laissez faire economics doesn’t work. Adam Smith never envisioned the global economy we live in today. The great TR even didn’t believe in the idea.

Ultimately, the government will adjust to the meeting needs to the economy. Now which brand of politics adjusts those rules is obviously. The Democrats will take back control of Kentucky state government and dismantle Bevins idiotic term as governor. The truth being said, he wouldn’t be in office without Obama’s terrible presidency.

[Hoot Gibson]

There are also reasons that I am not a true Republican. Too many Republicans govern too much like liberal Democrats.

Capitalism is the only economic system that has ever lifted billions of people out of poverty. Even China and Russia reached that conclusion after decades of central planning by their governments produced nothing but poverty and a corrupt ruling class.

As TRT pointed out, unfunded liabilities in this country exceed a decade's worth of this nation's total GDP. There are not unlimited funds available to give every special interest group the wages and benefits to which they believe they are entitled. American citizens are entitled to the freedoms guaranteed them by the U.S. Constitution, nothing more and nothing less.

While public school systems in Chicago and Washington, DC, show that any state's schools can get worse, Kentucky's public schools, taken as a whole, are not exactly setting the pace for high standards, and the same is true nationwide.

I work with many foreign nationals and it troubles me that American college graduates leave so many highly paid technical jobs on the table. The truth is, not only are American schools not preparing students to compete in a global economy, they are not preparing students to compete for the best jobs in their own country.

As for not caring who is responsible for the current mess, the old saying that those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it comes to mind. If politicians and the parties who spawned them are not held accountable for poor results, then how can anybody expect that the next administration will do anything but make matters worse?

(Although I don't consider myself a Republican, it is pretty clear that the biggest messes in this country have materialized under the leadership of liberal Democrats...Detroit, Chicago, Cleveland, Baltimore, Philadelphia, St. Louis, Washington, DC, Memphis, Little Rock, San Francisco, the rest of California...the list is almost endless.)

[RunItUpTheGut]

There is a reason I’m not a true republican. Balloon, you purposefully went around my post to try and find a weak point. Between Bevin and Beshear I could care less about both of them. Bevin however is a the biggest moron in politics since Jimmy Carter.

First of all laissez faire economics doesn’t work. Adam Smith never envisioned the global economy we live in today. The great TR even didn’t believe in the idea.

Ultimately, the government will adjust to the meeting needs to the economy. Now which brand of politics adjusts those rules is obviously. The Democrats will take back control of Kentucky state government and dismantle Bevins idiotic term as governor. The truth being said, he wouldn’t be in office without Obama’s terrible presidency.

This state has been trending red for 20 years.
I think it's over the top to say he wouldn't have been elected without obama.
The reason so many dems were getting elected up until 8 years ago was because of the seniors who were too dumb to realize the parties had flopped in their lifetime when it came to social issues and the backwoods rednecks who only voted that way because they're parents did. Now the seniors are dead and the rednecks flipped because obama.

What would electing dems and getting your pension for now do for you? If they backtrack you wont get it anyways. Itll be broke before you retire. Go to a 401k.

[The Urban Sombrero]

Ask some folks who counted on Enron about the incredible virtue of unfettered capitalists. Continue on, echo chamber.

[TheRealThing]

Ask some folks who counted on Enron about the incredible virtue of unfettered capitalists. Continue on, echo chamber.

Upon your retreaded emergence as TUS you were trying to act like some kind of a black Billy Sunday on here. Now you’re a full blown flaming socialist. :1:

[Hoot Gibson]

Ask some folks who counted on Enron about the incredible virtue of unfettered capitalists. Continue on, echo chamber.

Socialism has been tried and it has failed miserably and repeatedly. The only people who prosper from socialism are hucksters like AlGore and the Clintons. Yet people like you continue to believe that socialism and communism have failed only because no country has implemented those systems effectively.

You are blessed to live in a nation where capitalism continues to fuel a decent economy despite the best efforts of people of your ilk to destroy it.

[The Urban Sombrero]

⬆️
Ah, Eeyore, the Either/Or. “All government or all private. Big Corpo is for us. Trust in the Council of Greed. Don’t trust Big Brother.” Really? I mean, seriously, really?

[Hoot Gibson]

⬆️
Ah, Eeyore, the Either/Or. “All government or all private. Big Corpo is for us. Trust in the Council of Greed. Don’t trust Big Brother.” Really? I mean, seriously, really?

The crooked socialist that you backed in the election. You seem to be having an extraordinarily difficult time coping with that fact.

One might assume from your posts that you are totally unconcerned how two lifetime public "servants" have been able to amass more than $100 million through influence peddling. One would be correct in making such an assumption.

Why earn money by creating something of worth, when you can skim money off those who work hard making and make an honest living? Criminals like the Clintons cannot thrive without folks like you making excuses for them.

[mr.fundamental]

[SIZE="4"]
S&P Global Ratings---[/SIZE]

"The study shows that in 2014, only 15 states followed policies that funded at least 100 percent of their pension needs. [B]Kentucky trailed the pack [/B]of the other 35 states because the state paid only 35 percent of the more than $2.6 billion Pew estimates it should have to outpace interest.

Kentucky has the worst-funded pension system in the nation, compounded by the fact that of all the states, the commonwealth is doing the worst at paying off its pension debt."
http://wfpl.org/studies-show-kentuckys-s...in-nation/


Now, I don't believe for one second that you will bother to read the relatively short article for which I have provided the link above. And which details the grim truth about the Kentucky pension fund and the fact that ALL the shenanigans went down prior to Governor Matt Bevin's tenure. The irony is that Kentucky paid 123 million to investment managers over the past several years to watch over the pension fund. But that fact is eclipsed by the following incredible statistic, (you did ask for 'proper statistics,' did you not?) Kentucky, underfunded the pension fund 15 of the past 22 years. The fund has not been funded at 100% for over a quarter Century.

BTW, I guess I must have missed the part where YOU, or tvtime or anybody else bothered to back up what they were saying with any kind of link. But, how am I doing so far?

Just want to point out a few things. 1. I pointed to the surplus of TRS in '98 and since then the lack their of. 2. This study combines all retirement systems in 2014. 3. TRS current levels of funding are at 54 to 56%, as I have pointed out time and again.

To Hoot's point, teachers are tax payers as well. Teachers pay into their program 16% directly. Not counting the taxes teachers also pay as well. I will gladly pay into my own 401k as long as I get social security and get paid for my Masters and Rank one equivalent. I think the tax payers get a great deal.

To who started it please look at previous posts. I took you through '98-'18.

To someone else's point it will hurt education; think about this as of right now there is only one person who will be certified to teach physics that is going through the teacher ed program in all public universities at this given moment.

[TheRealThing]

Just want to point out a few things. 1. I pointed to the surplus of TRS in '98 and since then the lack their of. 2. This study combines all retirement systems in 2014. 3. TRS current levels of funding are at 54 to 56%, as I have pointed out time and again.

To Hoot's point, teachers are tax payers as well. Teachers pay into their program 16% directly. Not counting the taxes teachers also pay as well. I will gladly pay into my own 401k as long as I get social security and get paid for my Masters and Rank one equivalent. I think the tax payers get a great deal.

To who started it please look at previous posts. I took you through '98-'18.

To someone else's point it will hurt education; think about this as of right now there is only one person who will be certified to teach physics that is going through the teacher ed program in all public universities at this given moment.

I went to the KEA Website and saw their admonition to this state's teachers. Telling them to contact their state representatives to demand teachers receive Social Security benefits. They danced around quite a lot without actually admitting that the deductions Kentucky teachers pay all go to the Kentucky Retirement Fund, and not this nation's Social Security fund. And yet though teachers have not paid into the Social Security fund, you want to draw from it anyway, right?

Thus sound financial logic notwithstanding teachers are mounting an offensive, the end aim of which would be one of two possibilities. The first one would be to go all-in on demanding inclusion as SS recipients. The second would be a straight-up taxpayer bail-out. Either way it amounts to identity theft as the bill goes to the same place, unwitting taxpayers. Who BTW have a world of grief to bear which is every bit the burden that teachers have. Your retirement, was entrusted for safe keeping to Kentucky legislators. The very same whom once filled your heads with rainbows and unicorns, and talk of a retirement utopia where Democrats would always rule. A yarn you believed completely BTW. And here's where your statistics and sound accounting practices prove they are not confluent. The truth has now come out, and even though you've all been blown up about how you're national heroes, your pension funds are not there. Therefore in a series of steps to save your retirements, Gov Bevin has done a couple of things no other Governor has had the courage to do. Tell you about it, and do something about it.

[Hoot Gibson]

Just want to point out a few things. 1. I pointed to the surplus of TRS in '98 and since then the lack their of. 2. This study combines all retirement systems in 2014. 3. TRS current levels of funding are at 54 to 56%, as I have pointed out time and again.

To Hoot's point, teachers are tax payers as well. Teachers pay into their program 16% directly. Not counting the taxes teachers also pay as well. I will gladly pay into my own 401k as long as I get social security and get paid for my Masters and Rank one equivalent. I think the tax payers get a great deal.

To who started it please look at previous posts. I took you through '98-'18.

To someone else's point it will hurt education; think about this as of right now there is only one person who will be certified to teach physics that is going through the teacher ed program in all public universities at this given moment.

Nobody is stopping you from investing an additional 12.4% of your income, which is what Social Security costs those of us who will "get" it. I would have loved to have been able to invest that amount into stocks, bonds, and other investment vehicles of my choice.

As for your continuing education costs, why should taxpayers foot the bill for degrees that have little bearing on how well teachers can perform their jobs? If you are dissatisfied with your career choice, then switch careers.

A masters degree is no substitute for competence. I would be in favor of eliminating the requirement for advanced degrees in teaching and rewarding teachers based on performance instead. There is no reason that performance appraisals, promotions, and raises should not be handled as they are in the private sector.

[Bob Seger]

Nobody is stopping you from investing an additional 12.4% of your income, which is what Social Security costs those of us who will "get" it. I would have loved to have been able to invest that amount into stocks, bonds, and other investment vehicles of my choice.

As for your continuing education costs, why should taxpayers foot the bill for degrees that have little bearing on how well teachers can perform their jobs? If you are dissatisfied with your career choice, then switch careers.

A masters degree is no substitute for competence. I would be in favor of eliminating the requirement for advanced degrees in teaching and rewarding teachers based on performance instead. There is no reason that performance appraisals, promotions, and raises should not be handled as they are in the private sector.

If you are self employed, you pay in 15.3%.

[Hoot Gibson]

If you are self employed, you pay in 15.3%.

That's the penalty you pay for not having a boss, Bob. The federal government really despises entrepreneurs.

The feds prefer to deal with big companies who are willing to help hide how much taxes really cost Americans. As Milton Friedman said, corporations don't pay taxes - their share holders, customers, and/or employees pay taxes.

Remember all those liberals who wanted to punish big oil companies with windfall profit taxes? The idiots might as well wear a Kick Me sandwich sign around so that the federal government can stick it to them coming and going.

[TheRealThing]

That's the penalty you pay for not having a boss, Bob. The federal government really despises entrepreneurs.

The feds prefer to deal with big companies who are willing to help hide how much taxes really cost Americans. As Milton Friedman said, corporations don't pay taxes - their share holders, customers, and/or employees pay taxes.

Remember all those liberals who wanted to punish big oil companies with windfall profit taxes? The idiots might as well wear a Kick Me sandwich sign around so that the federal government can stick it to them coming and going.

LOL, incredible naivete, reminds me of the following ad;

[mr.fundamental]

Nobody is stopping you from investing an additional 12.4% of your income, which is what Social Security costs those of us who will "get" it. I would have loved to have been able to invest that amount into stocks, bonds, and other investment vehicles of my choice.

As for your continuing education costs, why should taxpayers foot the bill for degrees that have little bearing on how well teachers can perform their jobs? If you are dissatisfied with your career choice, then switch careers.

A masters degree is no substitute for competence. I would be in favor of eliminating the requirement for advanced degrees in teaching and rewarding teachers based on performance instead. There is no reason that performance appraisals, promotions, and raises should not be handled as they are in the private sector.

As your lawmakers the point of making us have a Masters degree.. I like your logic though, why require people to have a medical degree, why any degree really?

As far as performance, only until teachers can "fire"students, will that work. As in the private sector, you as a boss can fire those that do not meet standard and bring in those that would. I would ask the same principle to be applied to teachers, that is why performance based does not work in my field.

Finally, on the S.S. teachers would pay into such a program and many have, but the WEP/GPO knocks out teachers from the state of Kentucky and Railroad workers.

Teachers pay in the 16% for retirement, plus the regular taxes that everyone else pays.

[mr.fundamental]

I went to the KEA Website and saw their admonition to this state's teachers. Telling them to contact their state representatives to demand teachers receive Social Security benefits. They danced around quite a lot without actually admitting that the deductions Kentucky teachers pay all go to the Kentucky Retirement Fund, and not this nation's Social Security fund. And yet though teachers have not paid into the Social Security fund, you want to draw from it anyway, right?

Thus sound financial logic notwithstanding teachers are mounting an offensive, the end aim of which would be one of two possibilities. The first one would be to go all-in on demanding inclusion as SS recipients. The second would be a straight-up taxpayer bail-out. Either way it amounts to identity theft as the bill goes to the same place, unwitting taxpayers. Who BTW have a world of grief to bear which is every bit the burden that teachers have. Your retirement, was entrusted for safe keeping to Kentucky legislators. The very same whom once filled your heads with rainbows and unicorns, and talk of a retirement utopia where Democrats would always rule. A yarn you believed completely BTW. And here's where your statistics and sound accounting practices prove they are not confluent. The truth has now come out, and even though you've all been blown up about how you're national heroes, your pension funds are not there. Therefore in a series of steps to save your retirements, Gov Bevin has done a couple of things no other Governor has had the courage to do. Tell you about it, and do something about it.

Most teachers I know including me have already worked the consecutive quarters for S.S. Also, not including our spouses, who by the way we (teachers) are not allowed to receive the full benefit even though others are allowed to receive it. So to answer your first question, no.

Gov. Bevin has put a court order on the actuary analyis of the new plan. Did you know that, did you know there is not analysis done on HB 151. I wonder why? Again, TRS people have known about this for years. Hence, the idea of the casino bill as an example of a solution that was from the past. So to your point two, believe what you will.

[TheRealThing]

Most teachers I know including me have already worked the consecutive quarters for S.S. Also, not including our spouses, who by the way we (teachers) are not allowed to receive the full benefit even though others are allowed to receive it. So to answer your first question, no.

Gov. Bevin has put a court order on the actuary analyis of the new plan. Did you know that, did you know there is not analysis done on HB 151. I wonder why? Again, TRS people have known about this for years. Hence, the idea of the casino bill as an example of a solution that was from the past. So to your point two, believe what you will.

You've paid income taxes, not social security. The money you paid for your retirement went to the State of Kentucky.

I believe reality. People in Russia have worked a lot of quarters too, using your logic they would also be eligible for SS payments. The reality here is you're looking for any way you can figure out to draw SS when you haven't contributed one nickel towards the fund. Teachers in Kentucky have pensions which are administrated by this state. You legally opted out of SS when you became a state employee. That's the law, and the contract under which the conditions of your employment are covered, clearly defines those terms.

There is nothing particularly honorable or special about being a teacher. I know the rationale these days conflates parenting and education, and many people disagree with that notion completely. The truth is when done in a moral fashion, ALL forms of work are honorable pursuits and worthy to be esteemed by one's peers. Now, I'm done arguing with somebody who's looking for emotional vent in lieu of taking responsibility for their income fortunes. MOST of the folks I know had to completely change their vocational field (many of them several times) because they lost their job. And it is always a traumatic proposition. The article sourced below shows the true face of your average taxpayer, who're all under tremendous burden.

[SIZE="3"]
"The average person will change careers 5-7 times during their working life according to career change statistics." [/SIZE]
http://www.careers-advice-online.com/car...stics.html

I am not at all happy that you and others are going through this. But this life isn't easy and government is never the answer. When you figure that one out, you'll have your rank one equivalent in the school of hard knocks.

[Hoot Gibson]

As your lawmakers the point of making us have a Masters degree.. I like your logic though, why require people to have a medical degree, why any degree really?

As far as performance, only until teachers can "fire"students, will that work. As in the private sector, you as a boss can fire those that do not meet standard and bring in those that would. I would ask the same principle to be applied to teachers, that is why performance based does not work in my field.

Finally, on the S.S. teachers would pay into such a program and many have, but the WEP/GPO knocks out teachers from the state of Kentucky and Railroad workers.

Teachers pay in the 16% for retirement, plus the regular taxes that everyone else pays.

People in retail sales can't fire their customer base any more than teachers can fire their students. That does not exempt sales people from being rewarded based on performance. Teachers' pay is not based on performance because they are a protected political class thanks to their unions and effective lobbying by the NEA and it's affiliated state tentacles.

Comparing the teaching profession to such professions as medicine is ridiculous.

How many years does it really take to learn to teach subjects that most Americans have learned to elementary and high school students? The private sector is full of outstanding teachers working in fields such as corporate trainers who have no formal training as teachers.

The best taught class that I have ever taken was a class presented by a young graduate from Iowa State. The class was Advanced Statistical Process Control. The instructor who taught the 8 hour a day, three week class had no teaching degree but he had deep knowledge of the topic and outstanding presentation skills.

In general, I am opposed to to professional licensing because their main purpose is to inflate the salaries of the members of the profession. I formerly practiced as a registered professional engineer in Kentucky and was a member of the Kentucky Society of Professional Engineers. Such organizations lobby on behalf of their membership while professing to do so for the good of the general public. It's the same m.o. that is used by all "professions."

[Bob Seger]

Just think about this one. They actually let these tvtimeout types teach our kids?

:yikes::yikes::yikes:

[TheRealThing]

Just think about this one. They actually let these tvtimeout types teach our kids?

:yikes::yikes::yikes:

That’s the whole point about the idea of conferring nobility on somebody just because they are a teacher. Many of them, consider it their prerogative to indoctrinate their students with their own biases and political ideology. And in so doing, they freely bash everybody from Ronald Reagan to Barbara Bush, to the Lord Himself and all those who worship Him. In fact, anyone who doesn’t subscribe to liberalism will fall under the crosshairs of academia’s scorn at some point. Ask any college kid about it. Thus have the minds of our youth been so polluted.

tvtime is only about 35 years old, if he’s worked the private sector at all it had to be while he was in college. You, me, Hoot and RV if I recall, went through all of this social security stuff with tvtime years ago.

[Granny Bear]

That’s the whole point about the idea of conferring nobility on somebody just because they are a teacher. Many of them, consider it their prerogative to indoctrinate their students with their own biases and political ideology. And in so doing, they freely bash everybody from Ronald Reagan to Barbara Bush, to the Lord Himself and all those who worship Him. In fact, anyone who doesn’t subscribe to liberalism will fall under the crosshairs of academia’s scorn at some point. Ask any college kid about it. Thus have the minds of our youth been so polluted.

tvtime is only about 35 years old, if he’s worked the private sector at all it had to be while he was in college. You, me, Hoot and RV if I recall, went through all of this social security stuff with tvtime years ago.

Very very true. Happened to a family member. Changed colleges because of it too. I was against that. I'd STILL be there arguing my point. But I would be wrong.

[Bob Seger]

Very very true. Happened to a family member. Changed colleges because of it too. I was against that. I'd STILL be there arguing my point. But I would be wrong.

But the problem is that if you do that, it's an automatic F and a class failure....Argue much harder and it's expulsion.

A real tolerant bunch these liberals are.

[Granny Bear]

The I would have been proud to be expelled!! My grand daughter, on the other hand, finished and graduated. She's smarter than I!!

[plantmanky]

2 teachers at my wifes school were "allowed to resign" due to falsifying student logs. The system protects their own, which is part of this issue. It screws over the good teachers to protect the bad ones. This is a trickle down from the association that is supposedly for the teachers, but has done really nothing to help the teachers through this issue.

I saw that federal court is allowing the KY AG to continue to pursue a challenge to the new pension laws. Thats a good thing IMO, its a huge waste of taxpayer money, but its a good thing. If the new law prevails, we have a new system for new teachers, that gives them more control. (hopefully they revise it and allow current teachers to take a buyout of the old pension, and move to the new format)

If the new law is overturned, the old pension fund will not be funded this fiscal year by the state (they dont have the money too) so it will be another year of unfunded, making the situation worse.

I cant wait for charter schools, giving parents another option, it could be bad, it could be good, who knows, but more options are better.

[The Urban Sombrero]

The crooked socialist that you backed in the election. You seem to be having an extraordinarily difficult time coping with that fact.

One might assume from your posts that you are totally unconcerned how two lifetime public "servants" have been able to amass more than $100 million through influence peddling. One would be correct in making such an assumption.

Why earn money by creating something of worth, when you can skim money off those who work hard making and make an honest living? Criminals like the Clintons cannot thrive without folks like you making excuses for them.

Note: I abstained from voting in 2016 as an act of political protest. Plus, there is no re-emergence. This is echo chamber fiction. As for “fools,” ultimately, the foolish read only selected excerpts from ol’ Invisible Hand, draw foolhardy conclusions, argue like Eeyore and think themselves wise, and ignore how greed drives uber capitalism, and, rooted in greed, no greater good can come.

[Hoot Gibson]

Note: I abstained from voting in 2016 as an act of political protest. Plus, there is no re-emergence. This is echo chamber fiction. As for “fools,” ultimately, the foolish read only selected excerpts from ol’ Invisible Hand, draw foolhardy conclusions, argue like Eeyore and think themselves wise, and ignore how greed drives uber capitalism, and, rooted in greed, no greater good can come.

I think you misread my post. You quoted "fools" and responded as if I had said, "Criminals like the Clintons cannot thrive without fools like you making excuses for them," when I gave you the benefit of doubt by using the word "folks." My post does not contain the word "fools," nor does it contain any variant thereof.

[The Urban Sombrero]

I think you misread my post. You quoted "fools" and responded as if I had said, "Criminals like the Clintons cannot thrive without fools like you making excuses for them," when I gave you the benefit of doubt by using the word "folks." My post does not contain the word "fools," nor does it contain any variant thereof.

Duly noted.