[Harry Rex Vonner]

Funny how 18 months ago President Obama believed that marriage was between a man and a women

It was politically advantageous at the time. Obama's "core beliefs" vary with the political winds.

[TheRealThing]

And non Christians are trying to force their beliefs on Christians, no side is innocent trv. The fact is the gayest state in our country couldn't get a majority to agree on gay marriage but through the courts the whole country will eventually be forced to accept it. That is my only problem here the people spoke and were promptly ignored. I'm not bigoted I could give a shit less about gay marriage however I do get concerned when the will of the people is completely ignored after a statewide vote to settle the issue

The fact that the will of the deviant few is being forced on the entire nation is so obvious, even those drowning in the koolaid know that to be the truth, though they would never admit it publicly. And, you are completely correct, the people spoke and were promptly ignored. The court has become the instrument of reverse persecution in this matter.

[Hoot Gibson]

Does the Sunday thing make America an official Christian nation? Is Christianity our official religion?

I am not participating in your straw man arguments and Christian bashing, RV. Just watching you demonstrate your deep misunderstanding of how our government works again. Deists and every other religious American who was not a Christian were far outnumbered at the time this nation was founded. There would have been no independent United States of America in the 18th century without the well documented contributions of Christians in this country. The Sunday reference was obviously an acknowledgement of the importance of Sunday to American Christians.

You can no doubt cite atheist web sites to support your vision of Colonial America, but I am not really interested in the subject myself. The reason that freedom of religion was so important to the colonists was that they did not want the federal government imposing an "official" religion on them from the nation's capital. Never in their wildest dreams would those colonists have supported the kind of war on Christianity that people of you ilk wage everyday. It is exactly the kind of thing that motivated them to flee their home countries.

[TheRealVille]

^ Exactly,no official religion, including Christianity. Tell that to TRT, and nky. I never said Christianity didn't play a part, and Deism, and other beliefs also did. The founders were adamant that we didn't have a state religion, because of the way England did things. They fled England because of a state religion. That's documented.

[TheRealVille]

FTR, I don't have to cite atheist sites, we have historical documents, like the ones I mentioned, just to name a few.

[TheRealVille]

Hoot, show where my Christian bashing is in this thread.

[TheRealVille]

The fact that the will of the deviant few is being forced on the entire nation is so obvious, even those drowning in the koolaid know that to be the truth, though they would never admit it publicly. And, you are completely correct, the people spoke and were promptly ignored. The court has become the instrument of reverse persecution in this matter.

Again, you cannot vote on citizen's rights. It's not voteable.

[Hoot Gibson]

FTR, I don't have to cite atheist sites, we have historical documents, like the ones I mentioned, just to name a few.

No, you don't have to, yet you have often done so in the past.

[Hoot Gibson]

Hoot, show where my Christian bashing is in this thread.

I never said that you had - yet. I have been around long enough to know the direction that you end up taking threads such as this one. You start by using poor grammar by using proper nouns such as "God," where it applies to one particular God and it ends sometime after you start insulting Christians by calling the Bible a book of fairy tales or making similar attacks on the religion. So far, you have managed to limit yourself to calling TRT an "idiot" and/or a "moron."

Hopefully, my prediction of your future posts in this thread will help you to control your emotions for a change just to prove me wrong. If so, then I have done my good deed for the day. :biggrin:

[TheRealThing]

When you learn to read things as they are written, and not intentionally, or stupidly, twist them into a wrong meaning, maybe I'll not insult you. I made it very plain I wasn't referring to pantheism in the original post. You either twisted, or aren't very smart. Maybe there is an honest reason you ended up in a support trade. Maybe it really isn't your fault.

Have at it RV. You have dodged so many pointed and proven barbs coming your way at this point, you've got a lot of ground to cover. You said the founding fathers held "many" creators in high esteem. I strongly disagree with that as nonsense.

But, as to the business of the Sabbath. The fourth commandment of God to His Chosen, the children of Israel.

Exodus 20:7-11 (KJV)
7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

The Sabbath was to be observed on the last day of the week. Jesus was crucified on the day before the Sabbath, on Friday, and rose again on the third day, Sunday. Who really knows if we got our eggs a little scrambled as the result of calendar changes or not? Bible scholars believe that Jesus hung on the cross on Friday and was taken down after He dismissed His spirit, on Friday evening. He was in the tomb from later Friday evening, all during the Sabbath, and was resurrected on Sunday. Friday, Saturday, Sunday, three days. He said He would rise again on the third day. History records that it happened just that way, and was verified by the Roman guard among many others. The point is this. Once the Lord commended His spirit into His Father's hand, the veil covering the Holy of Holies was rent in twain. From top to bottom, torn by God Himself. No longer would man need the services of a priest, access to Him was to be had directly for all men thanks to the restored relationship that Christ had provided between believers and God, by His sacrificial death on the cross.

We Christians observe the Lord's day on the first day of the week. The day our Lord rose again. This is why the founding fathers excepted Sunday from the business week, as belonging to God. The reasonable expectation during that day was that most folks would be in Church, and otherwise in observance of the Sabbath. Now, is our calendar in conflict with the day the Jew observed the Sabbath? It is an argument which goes nowhere. The point is that we do observe the Sabbath and as far as we know we are right about which day of the week we do that.

1 Corinthians 16:1-2 (KJV)
1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.
2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

[TheRealVille]

Have at it RV. You have dodged so many pointed and proven barbs coming your way at this point, you've got a lot of ground to cover. You said the founding fathers held "many" creators in high esteem. I strongly disagree with that as nonsense.

But, as to the business of the Sabbath. The fourth commandment of God to His Chosen, the children of Israel.

Exodus 20:7-11 (KJV)
7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

The Sabbath was to be observed on the last day of the week. Jesus was crucified on the day before the Sabbath, on Friday, and rose again on the third day, Sunday. Who really knows if we got our eggs a little scrambled as the result of calendar changes or not? Bible scholars believe that Jesus hung on the cross on Friday and was taken down after He dismissed His spirit, on Friday evening. He was in the tomb from later Friday evening, all during the Sabbath, and was resurrected on Sunday. Friday, Saturday, Sunday, three days. He said He would rise again on the third day. History records that it happened just that way, and was verified by the Roman guard among many others. The point is this. Once the Lord commended His spirit into His Father's hand, the veil covering the Holy of Holies was rent in twain. From top to bottom, torn by God Himself. No longer would man need the services of a priest, access to Him was to be had directly for all men thanks to the restored relationship that Christ had provided between believers and God, by His sacrificial death on the cross.

We Christians observe the Lord's day on the first day of the week. The day our Lord rose again. This is why the founding fathers excepted Sunday from the business week, as belonging to God. The reasonable expectation during that day was that most folks would be in Church, and otherwise in observance of the Sabbath. Now, is our calendar in conflict with the day the Jew observed the Sabbath? It is an argument which goes nowhere. The point is that we do observe the Sabbath and as far as we know we are right about which day of the week we do that.

1 Corinthians 16:1-2 (KJV)
1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.
2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

Does that make America a Christian nation, when the founding fathers said it wasn't? I thought Jesus was Christian's sabbath, not a day of the week? What does Paul having them take up a collection before he gets there have to do with the sabbath? I thought Jewish people had the sabbath right?

[TheRealVille]

I never said that you had - yet. I have been around long enough to know the direction that you end up taking threads such as this one. You start by using poor grammar by using proper nouns such as "God," where it applies to one particular God and it ends sometime after you start insulting Christians by calling the Bible a book of fairy tales or making similar attacks on the religion. So far, you have managed to limit yourself to calling TRT an "idiot" and/or a "moron."

Hopefully, my prediction of your future posts in this thread will help you to control your emotions for a change just to prove me wrong. If so, then I have done my good deed for the day. :biggrin:

Nothing I said about TRT wasn't true.


You can take credit for something that wasn't going to happen, if it makes you feel better about yourself.

[Hoot Gibson]

Nothing I said about TRT wasn't true.


You can take credit for something that wasn't going to happen, if it makes you feel better about yourself.

Thanks, I will do so. FTR, after several years of reading nearly every thread on this forum, I am still waiting to see you to school somebody on any subject. Happy Jewish Sabbath, RT. :biglmao:

[TheRealVille]

Thanks, I will do so. FTR, after several years of reading nearly every thread on this forum, I am still waiting to see you to school somebody on any subject. Happy Jewish Sabbath, RT. :biglmao:

You are a day behind. Jewish Sabbath begins on Friday evening, and ends on Saturday evening. nicker:

[Hoot Gibson]

You are a day behind. Jewish Sabbath begins on Friday evening, and ends on Saturday evening. nicker:

No, I know exactly when the Jewish Sabbath is. You suggested that it might have been the basis for the framers of the Constitution including the Sunday exception language as an alternative explanation of it being a nod to the large role that Christianity played in the every day lives of most colonists. Apparently, you successfully Googled the information. Good for you, RV!

[TheRealVille]

No, I know exactly when the Jewish Sabbath is. You suggested that it might have been the basis for the framers of the Constitution including the [B]Sunday [/B]exception language as an alternative explanation of it being a nod to the large role that Christianity played in the every day lives of most colonists. Apparently, you successfully Googled the information. Good for you, RV!

Where?

[Spirit100]

I've got a closet foot fetish. Wonder if I could get some special privileges or entitlements from it. nicker:

Foot fetish lovers of the world unite!

[Hoot Gibson]

Where?

Yea, except that's not the sabbath. If you can show just one reference to Jesus, or Christianity, I'll eat crow. BTW, even if they were trying to honor the sabbath, that could be Judaism, since Jesus abolished the sabbath worship. Are we a Jewish nation?

Sound familiar? If you knew that the Jewish Sabbath ends on Saturday, then how could the constitutional reference to Sunday have anything to do with Judaism? That was a nonsensical post that makes even less sense if you knew that the Jewish Sabbath is observed on Saturday when you posted.

[TheRealVille]

Sound familiar? If you knew that the Jewish Sabbath ends on Saturday, then how could the constitutional reference to Sunday have anything to do with Judaism. That was a nonsensical post.

I was merely referring to the sabbath worship, not Sunday. You and TRT have a tough time with reading comprehension, don't you? I can assure you that I knew when the Jewish Sabbath was. I stated Sunday was not the Sabbath.

Yea, except that's not the sabbath. If you can show just one reference to Jesus, or Christianity, I'll eat crow. BTW, even if they were trying to honor the sabbath, that could be Judaism, since Jesus abolished the sabbath worship. Are we a Jewish nation? -

[Hoot Gibson]

I was merely referring to the sabbath worship, not Sunday. You and TRT have a tough time with reading comprehension, don't you? I can assure you that I knew when the Jewish Sabbath was. I stated Sunday was not the Sabbath.

You have a tough time writing a coherent post. You implied that Sunday is not the Christian Sabbath and then opined that if the framers were honoring the Sabbath, then maybe they were referring to the Jewish Sabbath. Like I said, if you knew when the Jewish Sabbath was, then your post made even less sense. Write it off to poor reader comprehension if you want but it seems like a case of poor writer comprehension to me.

[TheRealVille]

You have a tough time writing a coherent post. You implied that Sunday is not the Christian Sabbath and then opined that if the framers were honoring the Sabbath, then maybe they were referring to the Jewish Sabbath. Like I said, if you knew when the Jewish Sabbath was, then your post made even less sense. Write it off to poor reader comprehension if you want but it seems like a case of poor writer comprehension to me.

No, I said Sunday is not the Sabbath, and it's not. Read into it what you will.

[Hoot Gibson]

No, I said Sunday is not the Sabbath, and it's not. Read into it what you will.

I will and so will others who want to review what you wrote. As I said before, your post was nonsensical either way. The founding fathers did not include a reference to Sunday by coincidence and its inclusion had nothing whatsoever to do with Judaism.

[TheRealVille]

^I will say though, that if I were going to be a Christian, I'd want to be one like you. You don't push your view on anybody, you don't think you have to go to a building on Sunday, and you drink alcohol.

[TheRealVille]

MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow’s appearance on Meet the Press was a total fail for the usual suspects, and this is why she is so rarely given the chance to speak around conservatives. Not only did she school Jim DeMint, but she also made a fool of Ralph Reed. Reed was happily touting his anti-gay, pro-bigotry political strategy, when Maddow stepped in to point out that actually, his strategy has been an epic fail and lost three main electoral efforts.

Maddow was on the panel with chairman of the Faith and Freedom Coalition, Ralph Reed, author and professor at Georgetown University, Michael Eric Dyson, President of the Heritage Foundation, Fmr. Sen. Jim DeMint and NBC’s Pete Williams.
As Ralph Reed was tooting the strategic horn of anti-gay bigotry and saying how it will energize politicians, Rachel Maddow interrupted him to point out that they lost three main election efforts in which they tried the bigotry strategy.

Rachel Maddow: Three main election efforts, electing Mitt Romney, getting that Iowa state supreme court justice thrown out and the Minnesota anti-gay constitutional amendment. You lost all three of those fights in November 2012. Between organize arguments –
Ralph Reed: — Turn out the evangelical vote.
Rachel Maddow: — And it was great and they lost, but between — when oral arguments were made in this case, there were nine states that recognized marriage equality. By the time of the ruling there were 12 states and five minutes later there were 13 states.


In other words, Ralph, go ahead and turn out that evangelical vote, but it isn’t getting you anywhere nationally. Can you say, “Shrinking tent”?

In the world of Sunday shows wherein Republican talking points rule the day, Maddow offered pesky things like facts and actual political analysis, unlike the activist agenda of conservative talkers posing as political analysts in order to spread propaganda.

Maddow wasn’t just saying Reed lost because his opinion is different than hers. The fact that he and his political strategy lost is a political reality. This is called a factbomb. She smacked down Reed’s denial with facts. No one ever seems to say this to Republicans’ faces, and certainly not to social conservative champions like Ralph Reed who has everything personal to gain while he destroys the Republican Party with his pro-bigotry positions.

You can just imagine the shock of conservative Republicans listening to Maddow’s factbomb — these are the same folks who denied the polls showing an Obama lead during 2012. The reality was even worse for them, as the polls were consistently off in favor of Romney. The GOP sold their base bigotry as a get out the vote tactic, and their base bought it.

The base does not believe that these policy positions are losers; the base believes that if only Romney had been more conservative (aka, pro-bigotry), he would have won. This is absolutely inaccurate, and the old guard Republicans know this, but they can’t convince their own members let alone their base, and this is why you see them unable to pass even something as bipartisan as immigration reform in the House.

Maddow brought a little shock and awe in the form of facts to Meet the Press on Sunday, and it was refreshing.
[YOUTUBE="Maddow v Reed"]bq0NGB40ZVU[/YOUTUBE]

http://www.politicususa.com/2013/06/30/r...forts.html

[Hoot Gibson]

^I will say though, that if I were going to be a Christian, I'd want to be one like you. You don't push your view on anybody, you don't think you have to go to a building on Sunday, and you drink alcohol.

My church attendance, drinking habits, or lack thereof is none of your business. You can be confidenty assume that I am cold sober when I read and respond to posts made in this forum. That often gives me an advantage over certain liberals who apparently get behind their keyboards while drinking. nicker:

[TheRealVille]

^It was a compliment. Everything I said was fact. You were here during Sunday church times, you don't push your Christianity on people, and you have admitted that you drink wine.

[Hoot Gibson]

^It was a compliment. Everything I said was fact. You were here during Sunday church times, you don't push your Christianity on people, and you have admitted that you drink wine.

Attending a friend's wine tastings and taking a few sips of wine out of tiny paper cups is technically drinking alcohol I suppose, but I took you "compliment" as a backhanded one at best. I also occasionally engage in downing a token amount of alcohol during toasts to friends who are promoted or retire from military service, so you can add that tidbit of information to your dossier. :biglmao:

[TheRealVille]

Attending a friend's wine tastings and taking a few sips of wine out of tiny paper cups is technically drinking alcohol I suppose, but I took you "compliment" as a backhanded one at best. I also occasionally engage in downing a token amount of alcohol during toasts to friends who are promoted or retire from military service, so you can add that tidbit of information to your dossier. :biglmao:

I absolutely wasn't "backhanding" you. I sincerely complimented your non back woods take on Christianity. Your's is a more like Jesus approach, other than a few snide remarks occasionally, than I get a chance to see very often. Jesus drank wine, but you won't hear that in most churches. Jesus also didn't push his religion on others.

[Hoot Gibson]

I absolutely wasn't "backhanding" you. I sincerely complimented your non back woods take on Christianity. Your's is a more like Jesus approach, other than a few snide remarks occasionally, than I get a chance to see very often. Jesus drank wine, but you won't hear that in most churches. Jesus also didn't push his religion on others.

If you sincerely meant your statement to be a compliment, then thank you. I used to enjoy a good margarita before a Mexican meal, but it has been years since I had one. I just don't care for the taste of beer and most alcohol and I don't drive after even one drink, so I completely abstain except on very rare occasions.

The wine tastings were more about good conversation than they were about wine. When my wife mentioned to the restaurant manager (on the phone) one day that it was my birthday, he led a group of strangers in a chorus of Happy Birthday and brought a fresh baked fruit tart to the table where the wine tasting was being held. I never expected something like that to happen to me in this area when I moved here.

[RunItUpTheGut]

Maddow may be the most useless human to ever see the earth.