[livewire220]

Sorry Dusty, but your taking up for KHSAA is wrong. BOC made the decision. Here is the section from their Sept. agenda.

3.9.3.6. Post game Procedures in Baseball, Softball, Soccer, Basketball, Football, Volleyball and Wrestling
Rationale:
Several sports have "traditions" regarding post game handshakes, etc. by team members. While it is an obvious sign of sportsmanship and civility, many incidents have occurred both in Kentucky and throughout the country, where fights and conflicts have broken out. Unfortunately, the adrenaline and effort required to participate in the sport sometimes seems to deplete the supply of judgement available to participants. The Commissioner will be issuing the following directives and recommendations to the schools and officials regarding post game:
Game management is responsible for what happens after the contest is concluded.
Following the contests, officials are to quickly and efficiently leave the playing facility and ensure that rules mandated jurisdiction ends.
Officials have no role at all in what goes on in postgame, including handshakes, etc.
It is highly recommended that teams and individuals do not participate in organized post game handshake beyond that interaction that is required by the playing rules (i.e. the awarding of a bout winner in wrestling)
The coaches of the teams are responsible for the individual conduct of the members of the team following the contest and shall be held accountable for such.
If the decision is made to participate in some form of postgame handshake against this recommendation, it is the expressed responsibility of game management and the coaches of the teams to supervise the activity, to report to the KHSAA any incidents that occur, and the report to the KHSAA any disciplinary action taken as a result.

These items will be distributed to the membership through all schools, and individually distributed to the specific sports through the sports contacts. It is disappointing that this interpretation has become necessary, but enough incidents have occurred that the necessity has arrived.

Minutes aren't available yet but you can access all of it here.

http://khsaa.org/general/board-of-control-information/

[livewire220]

Sorry Dusty, but your taking up for KHSAA is wrong. BOC made the decision. Here is the section from their Sept. agenda.

3.9.3.6. Post game Procedures in Baseball, Softball, Soccer, Basketball, Football, Volleyball and Wrestling
Rationale:
Several sports have "traditions" regarding post game handshakes, etc. by team members. While it is an obvious sign of sportsmanship and civility, many incidents have occurred both in Kentucky and throughout the country, where fights and conflicts have broken out. Unfortunately, the adrenaline and effort required to participate in the sport sometimes seems to deplete the supply of judgement available to participants. The Commissioner will be issuing the following directives and recommendations to the schools and officials regarding post game:
Game management is responsible for what happens after the contest is concluded.
Following the contests, officials are to quickly and efficiently leave the playing facility and ensure that rules mandated jurisdiction ends.
Officials have no role at all in what goes on in postgame, including handshakes, etc.
It is highly recommended that teams and individuals do not participate in organized post game handshake beyond that interaction that is required by the playing rules (i.e. the awarding of a bout winner in wrestling)
The coaches of the teams are responsible for the individual conduct of the members of the team following the contest and shall be held accountable for such.
If the decision is made to participate in some form of postgame handshake against this recommendation, it is the expressed responsibility of game management and the coaches of the teams to supervise the activity, to report to the KHSAA any incidents that occur, and the report to the KHSAA any disciplinary action taken as a result.

These items will be distributed to the membership through all schools, and individually distributed to the specific sports through the sports contacts. It is disappointing that this interpretation has become necessary, but enough incidents have occurred that the necessity has arrived.

Minutes aren't available yet but you can access all of it here.

http://khsaa.org/general/board-of-control-information/

[dores legend]

I will probably be scolded for saying this but in the end it is the truth. The KHSAA is not to blame for this proposal. No post-game sportsmanship rituals need to be banned whether it be a handshake or prayer or anything for that matter. This cold hard truth is things like this should not have to even be discussed.

The big issue here is the poor leadership skills demonstrated by our coaches and administrators at our member schools. The responsibility of the actions of our student-athletes falls directly on that said group. If they cannot teach sportsmanship to their student-athletes and altercations during post-game rituals continue to happen I see nothing wrong with showing them the door. I think it is ridiculous that the KHSAA has had to even mention this with all of the other more prevalent current issues.

[Stardust]

An average of 8 post game fights per year in nearly 40,000 events...

I picked a random school and looked at their REGULAR season schedules for baseball (34), Softball (30), B basketball (28), G basketball (26), B soccer (20), G soccer (17) and volleyball (33). That is 188 contests excluding any playoffs. Multiply that by 200 schools (37,600) times 3 years equals 112,000.

It seems to me that this is a VERY minor problem. There are probably many, many more fights DURING contests...I think the KHSAA should send out a directive prohibiting any athletic event so as to avoid altercations. (tongue firmly planted in cheek)

It happens in all walks of life, organizations, and often times our bosses make rules for the simple reason they can and they need to justify their existence.

Sorry Dusty, but your taking up for KHSAA is wrong. BOC made the decision. Here is the section from their Sept. agenda.

3.9.3.6. Post game Procedures in Baseball, Softball, Soccer, Basketball, Football, Volleyball and Wrestling
Rationale:
Several sports have "traditions" regarding post game handshakes, etc. by team members. While it is an obvious sign of sportsmanship and civility, many incidents have occurred both in Kentucky and throughout the country, where fights and conflicts have broken out. Unfortunately, the adrenaline and effort required to participate in the sport sometimes seems to deplete the supply of judgement available to participants. The Commissioner will be issuing the following directives and recommendations to the schools and officials regarding post game:
Game management is responsible for what happens after the contest is concluded.
Following the contests, officials are to quickly and efficiently leave the playing facility and ensure that rules mandated jurisdiction ends.
Officials have no role at all in what goes on in postgame, including handshakes, etc.
It is highly recommended that teams and individuals do not participate in organized post game handshake beyond that interaction that is required by the playing rules (i.e. the awarding of a bout winner in wrestling)
The coaches of the teams are responsible for the individual conduct of the members of the team following the contest and shall be held accountable for such.
If the decision is made to participate in some form of postgame handshake against this recommendation, it is the expressed responsibility of game management and the coaches of the teams to supervise the activity, to report to the KHSAA any incidents that occur, and the report to the KHSAA any disciplinary action taken as a result.

These items will be distributed to the membership through all schools, and individually distributed to the specific sports through the sports contacts. It is disappointing that this interpretation has become necessary, but enough incidents have occurred that the necessity has arrived.

Minutes aren't available yet but you can access all of it here.

http://khsaa.org/general/board-of-control-information/

I'm sorry, I don't understand what your point is. If you are saying that the meeting was conducted by KHSAA, well you are 100% right. If you are saying that KHSAA decided, and not a committee made up by the schools, then you are 100% wrong. Like I said, I have experience with this. I'm not trying to pretend I am in the know and no one else is, I'm just saying that I have spend PLENTY of time understanding this process and speak directly to the horses that run in the race (my school administrators).... Like I said, a lot of people would be surprised to see what they would learn if only they spoke to their AD, Principals, or District representatives. I'm a coach, I've had the opportunity to get an ear to the process....

[voice of reason]

new pansy rule "hand sanitizer must be used before any handshakes take place" lol

[Tommy2tone]

I certainly hope so.

Gitback, I will remember you in my prayers tonight as I hope everyone else on here will. Only someone who needs prayer would question it. For I am the Alpha and Omega. Remember him in everything you do and honor him in everything you do.

This might have been the best reply I have seen all year. AMEN

[livewire220]

Dusty,

My point is that it doesn't matter where it originated or who proposed it be it committee or individual. The BOC under the leadership and guidance of Mr. Tackett considered this idea in their Sept. Board meeting and approved it. If you like the directive you should thank them individually. If you don't like the directive and believe it is a lack of leadership then you should criticize them. Regardless of anyone's position the directive would not have occurred without the support of Mr. Tackett and a majority of the BOC. I can't wait to read the minutes of the meeting after they approve them next meeting.

[hop24]

There have been over 24 post game fights in the last three years in our fine state. What did you expect the KHSAA to advise?

The 24 postgame fights are embarrassing to our state. I'm all for sportsmanship. Been on the good and bad side of wins and losses. Shaking hands always meant to me that it's over, you did your best. With the technology of today the camaras are always running. I say shake hands and if anyone does anything to show poor character suspend them the rest of the season. NO QUESTIONS ASKED. Playing sports is a privilege and should be treated like one.

[Stardust]

Hot of the telephone guys, I just got this directly from our AD. A few weeks ago, there was a fight that broke out in CKY after a soccer game. Parents from both schools were calling KHSAA claiming fault on the other side. KHSAA is not in a position to act on these types of issues because it is a school function and must be handled by the security procedures of the hosting school. KHSAA attempted to diffuse the calls by telling the callers that they have no say in these issues. Thus, a decision rendered, with acceptance of the schools on one of the boards (he did no know which), decided that the KHSAA should absolve themselves from security related issues. An impromptu resolution was to announce that KHSAA was not going to intercede, and that security of pre, post and in-game security is at the hands of the host school. Thus, if there are incidents at the schools, the KHSAA will not be involved. A penalty was discussed for schools that continue the practice of post game, but he was not clear on what that penalty was. Again, the KHSAA is not directing any school to take any particular action, only to be advised that it is not in the KHSAA's jurisdiction to be involved in incidents that happen at the schools.

More to come as he gets more info and shares with me....

[hop24]

For people in NKY this will be a topic on the 6 O'clock news on channel 5 this evening.

[RIPKIN]

Hot of the telephone guys, I just got this directly from our AD. A few weeks ago, there was a fight that broke out in CKY after a soccer game. Parents from both schools were calling KHSAA claiming fault on the other side. KHSAA is not in a position to act on these types of issues because it is a school function and must be handled by the security procedures of the hosting school. KHSAA attempted to diffuse the calls by telling the callers that they have no say in these issues. Thus, a decision rendered, with acceptance of the schools on one of the boards (he did no know which), decided that the KHSAA should absolve themselves from security related issues. An impromptu resolution was to announce that KHSAA was not going to intercede, and that security of pre, post and in-game security is at the hands of the host school. Thus, if there are incidents at the schools, the KHSAA will not be involved. A penalty was discussed for schools that continue the practice of post game, but he was not clear on what that penalty was. Again, the KHSAA is not directing any school to take any particular action, only to be advised that it is not in the KHSAA's jurisdiction to be involved in incidents that happen at the schools.

More to come as he gets more info and shares with me....

If that is the case then and there is an incident then the KHSAA has no jurisdiction to enforce any penalty to anyone.Is that what they are saying? The schools will decide the penalty if there is to be one?

[mysonis55]

If they were just trying to protect themselves just simply make a clause stating they are not responsible and have member schools sign off. Do not go so far as to discourage it or even worse fine a member school for it happening. People will have issues in all facets of life and any interactions but we still have a need to interact. It is part of life. One should not punish the masses for the sins of a few. There are at least 25 football games every Friday night in Ky for 11 weeks. There are several more after that time. So how many handshake lines is that and we are talking about 36 problems out of all sports in 2 years. That is a nonfactor.

[cougarpride08]

Seems to me it was just done very unprofessional. Choices of words should have been do e different.

[Stardust]

If that is the case then and there is an incident then the KHSAA has no jurisdiction to enforce any penalty to anyone.Is that what they are saying? The schools will decide the penalty if there is to be one?

Who is the KHSAA? Yes, you are 100% correct, the schools will decide the penalty, they will vote on it and they will dictate to the KHSAA what to communicate to the member schools as to what the penalty will be. So, I think we are right back to what I said before:igiveup:

The schools established the KHSAA to be the "figurehead" governing body to convey at outline the rules to all member schools, thus eliminating schools from acting independently. If schools do not wish to follow the rules that are dictated through the KHSAA, they can revoke their membership from the KHSAA and operate on their own. There are a few schools in Kentucky that are not members of the KHSAA and are not told what to do by their brethren schools (through the KHSAA).

Your school and mine, pays our membership fees to KHSAA to have Julian Tackett dictate what we tell him to dictate to all the other schools who pay his salary also.

[Gitback Coach]

Gitback, I will remember you in my prayers tonight as I hope everyone else on here will. Only someone who needs prayer would question it. For I am the Alpha and Omega. Remember him in everything you do and honor him in everything you do.

Years ago, I attended a youth sports camp that--unbeknownst to me--insisted on starting every morning and ending every afternoon with a public, denominational (christian, of course) prayer. I was only 17 at the time, so I didn't make a big fuss about it. Instead, I opted to simply sit or stand quietly, waiting for each inane ritual to pass (just as I do in similar scenarios today).

By day three, though, one of the camp's coaches had noticed that I wasn't bowing my head or closing my eyes during their prayer to their god, and he asked me about it. As respectfully as I knew how, I explained that I had been raised in a half-agnostic, half-Buddhist home and that participation in public, denomination-specific prayer struck me as disrespectful and inappropriate. In turn, the coach/counselor said that he disagreed both with my perspective and my spiritual upbringing, but he would "pray for me." I thanked him and patiently waited until he walked away before I rolled my eyes.

I still remember that man today. At the time, he was a very successful, well-known assistant football coach at Penn State University . . . an engaging and gregarious fellow named Jerry Sandusky. I wonder whatever happened to him?

Anyway, my points about both this tangential prayer topic and the whole "post-game handshake" controversy are these: 1) You and Jerry Sandusky have at least one thing in common, and 2) If adults would actually practice and model virtuous, responsible behavior instead of preoccupying themselves with ritualistic poses or illusions of sportsmanship, everyone involved would be much better off . . . and the KHSAA would find itself compelled to release fewer directives.

Namo Amitabha Buddha, my friend.

[mysonis55]

God bless you Gitback. I cannot speak for that individual, but I would never tell you that you had to participate or bow your head. But, by the same token, you should not tell us that it is not the place. Anywhere and everywhere is the time and the place for prayer. You have a different religion and I respect that. But I will continue to pray for your sole and nothing you can say or do will change that. I feel deeply that God loves you just as he love me and everyone else on this thread and on the football field for that matter. If that upsets you, I will pray harder. I respect your right to your religion, I just ask that you respect mine and everyone else's.

[mysonis55]

Here is the bottom line, the KHSAA can and will make the rules. That does not change the fact that they have apparently made an huge error.

[Granny Bear]

Retraction??

[mysonis55]

Well, I guess the state law makers see this as a problem as well. I saw on wpsd tv site today that one of the legislators vows that he is going to push a law through that will prevent the khsaa from fining anyone. He advised KHSAA to worry about rules involving sports not fines. He also said khsaa has no legal grounds to fine anyone.

[inspiron]

If a handshake of sportsmanship provokes violence then the teams need to quit warming up on the field together before the pre-game; heck they better not hit each other and try to talk it out. This rule is baffling and another testimate to a higher thinking body assuming they know what's best by an assumption of their own. Haven't we learned enough about our government in the past couple years on having too much control because they think its best for the common individual. So many values and morals of teaching have been taking away because of a change in society that people are excepting more everyday. A tradition and show of "I gave it my all and you were the better team tonight" is trying to be taken away after almost a 100 years. Keep handshaking, praying, celebrating, cheering, and standing up to the things that make this great game a foundation for something that can change your life!!

[RunItUpTheGut]

Who is the KHSAA? Yes, you are 100% correct, the schools will decide the penalty, they will vote on it and they will dictate to the KHSAA what to communicate to the member schools as to what the penalty will be. So, I think we are right back to what I said before:igiveup:

The schools established the KHSAA to be the "figurehead" governing body to convey at outline the rules to all member schools, thus eliminating schools from acting independently. If schools do not wish to follow the rules that are dictated through the KHSAA, they can revoke their membership from the KHSAA and operate on their own. There are a few schools in Kentucky that are not members of the KHSAA and are not told what to do by their brethren schools (through the KHSAA).

Your school and mine, pays our membership fees to KHSAA to have Julian Tackett dictate what we tell him to dictate to all the other schools who pay his salary also.

This is what people dont understand.
If your cursing at the KHSAA for something, then ask your AD and Super why hes paying this man to dictate and be a part of the KHSAA.
Like it or not, its yours schools choice to be in the KHSAA. Nobody is making you do it.

[MeangreeN]

I've coached a middle school team for the last few years and sadly to say after our 2nd round playoff win in our conference last night the visiting team would not shake our hand. My coaching staff and our team just stood there waiting on the 50yd line for a minute or two, then the other team just walked away. I had to give a little talk about sportsmanship displays in other ways (such as helping the other player up after a hard tackle) which kinda took away from what should have been a line of young men shaking hands and saying good job and good luck, then getting to celebrate with the team. I for one hope that this rule or statement gets changed or carified!!!

[mysonis55]

Now, how do you explain that away? That is an image that can never be changed in at least 22 little minds.

[LadyCat Pride]

:ChairHit:This rule is by far the craziest thing every!!!!! It is call SPORTSMAN SHIP!!! No one likes to lose, but everyone does so do it with some CLASS!!!! Last I read about this issue is they are now trying to say they can do the hand shake after the game but if something happens the Coach's and School will be responsible and could be fined.:please:If schools choose to ignore the directive, it is the responsibility of school athletic directors, their assistants and school administrators to supervise the activity and report any incidents to the KHSAA. If postgame fights or conflicts occur, the KHSAA will fine the school’s athletic program and additional penalties may occur.

[plantmanky]

I didn't know shaking hands was a sport. The sportsmanship is shown during the game, not by shaking hands afterwords.