[OffTheHook]

Let's do the math...20,000/1=20,000 *370,000/20=18,500 Who has the advantage here?

*population of Boone, Campbell and Kenton

Like I said above, there are 20 schools within a half hours drive of Fort Thomas. That does not even include southwest Ohio and southeast Indiana schools. Elder, St. X and Moeller are also within a half hours drive. County schools can compete...If I remember right, there is only one school in the state that has won 5 championships in a row. Who was that?

Actually, let's redo the math...20,000/2=10,000 compared to your 18,500.

[Can you dig it?]

no idea what you are talking about.

Post #137.

[Eagle Pride 90`]

Did he tell you about the top secret underground airport we have for flying players in from Cali and Florida? Did he mention that Beechwood, Bellevue, Boone County, Brossart, Campbell County, Conner, Cooper, Covington Catholic, Dayton, Dixie, Holmes, Holy Cross, Lloyd, Ludlow, Newport, Newport Central Catholic, Ryle, Scott, and Simon Kenton (every one within a 30 minute drive of Highlands) are just feeder schools sending their best and brightest so the Birds will be forever strong? Did he mention that the above 20 schools hold Highlands in such high regard that they would never think of turning them in if what he said were true? Did he mention that only an idiot would believe what he told you?

Don't shoot the messenger just relaying what I was told. I didn't even say I believed him. Just thought it was good material for a discussion board. If I lived in northern Kentucky and my kids were good enough to play at HHS that where they would be.

[chance_rollin]

All I have to say 52 weeks in a year and I have to plan my vacations time around those dates so my boy doesn't miss out on anything. Practice at highlands is a 50 week thing.

And i would bet looking at all the great teams around state its a year around thing..
not just highlands, T or St X

[honestjchsfan]

My friend from Floyd Co has a interesting name for the Highlands vs JCHS game, he calls it the "Republican Bowl"

[charlie22]

There is no need to list all the kids names. I think what some are trying to say is that it is virtually impossible for a county say with 20,000 pop. to compete with schools that have a city or cities with a pop. of 200,000 people within arms reach of them to have kids come to their school when they are known as a power house. However I do not blame any parent that has a talented athlete to enroll their kid in a powerhouse program. That isn't the issue. But as a coach for over 20yrs. I will say it is impossible year in and out to compete with schools that have the luxury of getting the best of the best from major metro areas. Schools such as Highlands, Cov. Cath., Trinity, St. X, all have great programs. I just wish there was some different system that would make it more competitive for those schools. I mean come on Highlands won the state last year 50-0. Now do you really think the team they beat were the second best in the state.....probably not. I saw Cov. Cath and Highlands play this year. ABSOLUTELY A GREAT GAME !! An awesome game to watch. Now that was a very competitive game. Just wish people would give it some thought is all....................Thanks.

Thanks Coach for the well written and thought out post. I understand your point. There are advantages held by the urban schools, one of which is the funnel effect that you mentioned (although I think the funnel effect is somewhat present for the strong football programs in the rural areas also. We've seen plenty of transfers among the rural schools and I doubt they were all for the "purest" of reasons.) But I think we need to keep in mind that when there are many strong football programs in an urban area, the mouth of the funnel isn't as wide. I know some folks think that every good football player (or even most good football players) all over N. Ky end up at Highlands. But that's really not accurate. Do we get some? Yes, but it's not as prevalent as people think. Often times its kids of parents that graduated from Highlands but chose to live outside of Ft. Thomas. Heck, we don't even get all the best football players that live in Ft. Thomas. NewCath gets a fair number of them. Beechwood keeps its best football players and also attracts some of the better football players looking to play elsewhere. Kenton County has open enrollment in the county so those kids have several options. I know Dixie and SK are down, really down, this year, but they have both had enough success to "keep" Kenton County kids that want to go to a good football program. Heck, I cheer for SK, Dixie, Boone, Ryle and Beechwood to have great success every year, because I fear if they don't, the kids in their communities will go to CovCath. CovCath is back once again and it acts as another funnel that attracts kids from N. Ky, thus keeping them from entering the Highlands funnel. I'm convinced Lickert will have great success at Campbell County if he stays there for more than a couple of years. There really is the potential to turn Campbell County into a really strong football program. If so, that further takes kids away from the mouth of the Highlands funnel. My point is that because of the number of strong or even just decent programs throughout N. Ky, the funnel effect for Highlands is not as prevalent as some think.

Personally, I think the biggest funnel effect is found in Louisville and Trinity is the primary beneficiary. Given their success and national recognition this year, I think the funnel will get bigger and wider for T. Busing, along with discipline and other issues at some of the Jeff Co. public schools help create the funnel. If Male, Manual, Ballard and the other schools don't start having greater success soon, Trinity will have even greater success in the future (as hard as that is to believe). I think X is fast approaching a crossroad. I like Glaser a lot, but Beatty's style of play is much more attractive to young kids making a decision on what high school to attend. When you have great coaching, great tradition, great support and you add the great athletes, you end up with the great football teams that T is producing. X has great coaches, great tradition and great support, but I'm told the great athletes are choosing T over X. That's not good for the future of X football, at least as it relates to competing against T. I think style of play is a big reason as to why kids are choosing T over X.

Thanks for your 20 years of coaching service to the kids of Ky. I don't think coaches are thanked often enough for their sacrifices and committent.

[Frozenbird]

My friend from Floyd Co has a interesting name for the Highlands vs JCHS game, he calls it the "Republican Bowl"

Do not know about JCH but that is a good description of Ft Thomas and HHS.

[fb fan]

That was probably the best thread I have read. You make a lot of sense with your approach on this subject, and made me look at this a little differently. Thank you for your comments and great insight on this. You are very accurate with your line of thinking. Thanks again!!

[charlie22]

That was probably the best thread I have read. You make a lot of sense with your approach on this subject, and made me look at this a little differently. Thank you for your comments and great insight on this. You are very accurate with your line of thinking. Thanks again!!

Thank you Sir for the compliment and again for your contributions to Ky high school football.

[Blau Vogel]

Actually, let's redo the math...20,000/2=10,000 compared to your 18,500.

Boyle County does pretty well with 2 schools and 29,000.

[Stardust]

Thanks Coach for the well written and thought out post. I understand your point. There are advantages held by the urban schools, one of which is the funnel effect that you mentioned (although I think the funnel effect is somewhat present for the strong football programs in the rural areas also. We've seen plenty of transfers among the rural schools and I doubt they were all for the "purest" of reasons.) But I think we need to keep in mind that when there are many strong football programs in an urban area, the mouth of the funnel isn't as wide. I know some folks think that every good football player (or even most good football players) all over N. Ky end up at Highlands. But that's really not accurate. Do we get some? Yes, but it's not as prevalent as people think. Often times its kids of parents that graduated from Highlands but chose to live outside of Ft. Thomas. Heck, we don't even get all the best football players that live in Ft. Thomas. NewCath gets a fair number of them. Beechwood keeps its best football players and also attracts some of the better football players looking to play elsewhere. Kenton County has open enrollment in the county so those kids have several options. I know Dixie and SK are down, really down, this year, but they have both had enough success to "keep" Kenton County kids that want to go to a good football program. Heck, I cheer for SK, Dixie, Boone, Ryle and Beechwood to have great success every year, because I fear if they don't, the kids in their communities will go to CovCath. CovCath is back once again and it acts as another funnel that attracts kids from N. Ky, thus keeping them from entering the Highlands funnel. I'm convinced Lickert will have great success at Campbell County if he stays there for more than a couple of years. There really is the potential to turn Campbell County into a really strong football program. If so, that further takes kids away from the mouth of the Highlands funnel. My point is that because of the number of strong or even just decent programs throughout N. Ky, the funnel effect for Highlands is not as prevalent as some think.

Personally, I think the biggest funnel effect is found in Louisville and Trinity is the primary beneficiary. Given their success and national recognition this year, I think the funnel will get bigger and wider for T. Busing, along with discipline and other issues at some of the Jeff Co. public schools help create the funnel. If Male, Manual, Ballard and the other schools don't start having greater success soon, Trinity will have even greater success in the future (as hard as that is to believe). I think X is fast approaching a crossroad. I like Glaser a lot, but Beatty's style of play is much more attractive to young kids making a decision on what high school to attend. When you have great coaching, great tradition, great support and you add the great athletes, you end up with the great football teams that T is producing. X has great coaches, great tradition and great support, but I'm told the great athletes are choosing T over X. That's not good for the future of X football, at least as it relates to competing against T. I think style of play is a big reason as to why kids are choosing T over X.

Thanks for your 20 years of coaching service to the kids of Ky. I don't think coaches are thanked often enough for their sacrifices and committent.

Charlie, you never cease to amaze me with your foresight and common sense. You have given excellent analogies and a tremendous description of how the process works. Well too often, we get those whose teams that are not as good blame it simply on illegal recruiting. They want to make excuses for their own shortcomings by making saying its the fault of someone else as to why they are not successful. That's why we now have children growing up not being accountable for their own actions. Their parents or support model have taught these kids that "Its not your fault, someone else is to blame".

For me, it's always been about who has the best programs that succeed. Those schools that build tremendous support models are the benefactors of successful teams for longer periods of time. Lets face it, the Ft. Thomas football league just might be the very best youth football program around. Its charter is structured football that teaches the proper skills and sportsmanship for the children of Ft. Thomas. The league is made up of children from that area but there is a small number of outsiders that are allowed in after they have all the Ft. Thomas children who sign up. They fill in the teams with youth from outside the area. My son was privileged enough to play in that league in 4th and 5th grade. His first year, Mueller came down to speak to the boys. It was my first chance to hear him speak. His motivation and enthusiasm sold me and my son. After practices, we went to watch the Birds practice and were so amazed at the structure and execution that Highlands ran their practice. We went to more HHS games that year than we did Campbell County games (where we live).

We went to the Red Devils and were part of what may be the greatest teams in Red Devil History with Buzzy Johnson, Chris Kelly, Michael Kremer, Brady Hightchew, Nate Geiman, Jake Cain, Jake Rebholz and Connaughton. But all of those kids went their separate ways to as many as 8 different High Schools. The story behind this is that the Ft. Thomas feeder created 4 QB's, 8 RB's, etc.... All that knew the Highlands way and entered into High School as a group that already knew how to play football. This is the true backbone to HHS's program. Sure, there are kids that come along the way, but it's the foundation that makes this program great and that program is built out of the small community of Ft. Thomas!

[Blau Vogel]

Actually, let's redo the math...20,000/2=10,000 compared to your 18,500.

Maybe I am wrong, but I believe you are referring to Johnson County, population, 24,000+-. Deduct the 4000+- living in Paintsville, and we are back to your original number of 20,000.

The population of boys in the school matters. The ability of the coaching staff to get the athletes out of the halls and on to the field matters. The feeder system from little leagues matters. If you want to build a winner, you have to start WAY before the middle school or freshman year.

[rustyankle]

You do build a program with the feeder program I totally agree with that and its awesome that Ft thomas has a good ran youth league, but why is the HHS fans so touchy on the subject of recruiting? and realignment?

[Stardust]

^ What do you mean by realignment?

[Granny Bear]

Charlie, you never cease to amaze me with your foresight and common sense. You have given excellent analogies and a tremendous description of how the process works. Well too often, we get those whose teams that are not as good blame it simply on illegal recruiting. They want to make excuses for their own shortcomings by making saying its the fault of someone else as to why they are not successful. That's why we now have children growing up not being accountable for their own actions. Their parents or support model have taught these kids that "Its not your fault, someone else is to blame".

For me, it's always been about who has the best programs that succeed. Those schools that build tremendous support models are the benefactors of successful teams for longer periods of time. Lets face it, the Ft. Thomas football league just might be the very best youth football program around. Its charter is structured football that teaches the proper skills and sportsmanship for the children of Ft. Thomas. The league is made up of children from that area but there is a small number of outsiders that are allowed in after they have all the Ft. Thomas children who sign up. They fill in the teams with youth from outside the area. My son was privileged enough to play in that league in 4th and 5th grade. His first year, Mueller came down to speak to the boys. It was my first chance to hear him speak. His motivation and enthusiasm sold me and my son. After practices, we went to watch the Birds practice and were so amazed at the structure and execution that Highlands ran their practice. We went to more HHS games that year than we did Campbell County games (where we live).

We went to the Red Devils and were part of what may be the greatest teams in Red Devil History with Buzzy Johnson, Chris Kelly, Michael Kremer, Brady Hightchew, Nate Geiman, Jake Cain, Jake Rebholz and Connaughton. But all of those kids went their separate ways to as many as 8 different High Schools. The story behind this is that the Ft. Thomas feeder created 4 QB's, 8 RB's, etc.... All that knew the Highlands way and entered into High School as a group that already knew how to play football. This is the true backbone to HHS's program. Sure, there are kids that come along the way, but it's the foundation that makes this program great and that program is built out of the small community of Ft. Thomas!

:hilarious:
That charlie22 is definately a keeper!!!

If only he wasn't a lawyer!!

[Stardust]

:hilarious:
That charlie22 is definately a keeper!!!

If only he wasn't a lawyer!!

If only he was out here with me at Campbell County:biggrin:

[OrangenowBlue]

What I have seen over the past several years, it appears that Highlands does things the right way. They have a long established tradition that carry's over from year to year. When we played Highlands a few years back at their stadium, they were very gracious and hospitable. They even invited some of Letcher Central's staff and fans to Cris Collinsworth's home for a postgame party. I spend some time in the Covington area working and I really enjoy the area(with the exception of the teasing of my mountain accent). The Park Hills area near Notre Dame Academy and Covington Catholic is really nice with some beautiful German style homes.

[Can you dig it?]

You do build a program with the feeder program I totally agree with that and its awesome that Ft thomas has a good ran youth league, but why is the HHS fans so touchy on the subject of recruiting? and realignment?

We're not as touchy about the recruiting BS as we are tired of it. It's always been the last resort of the fans of teams that couldn't hang with the Bluebirds. Again, :lame:

[rustyankle]

We're not as touchy about the recruiting BS as we are tired of it. It's always been the last resort of the fans of teams that couldn't hang with the Bluebirds. Again, :lame:

you can put lame at the end of your sentence all you want just proves my point TOUCHY, i havent said a bad thing against your school and if we lived north my kid would go to highlands, but come on seriously we got a feeder program here as well but it dont year after year put out 6'6 6'5 6'4 athletes like highlands so i dont think your feeder program makes kids grow heck it might be something in the water,,,:biglmao:

[charlie22]

We're not as touchy about the recruiting BS as we are tired of it. It's always been the last resort of the fans of teams that couldn't hang with the Bluebirds. Again, :lame:

I'm more irritated with it because it devalues the effort that my two sons, a whole lot of other Ft. Thomas kids, the coaches at both the high school and the Jr. Football League level, school administrators and supporters of the program put into making the program very successful.

[Stardust]

you can put lame at the end of your sentence all you want just proves my point TOUCHY, i havent said a bad thing against your school and if we lived north my kid would go to highlands, but come on seriously we got a feeder program here as well but it dont year after year put out 6'6 6'5 6'4 athletes like highlands so i dont think your feeder program makes kids grow heck it might be something in the water,,,:biglmao:

You obviously are not familiar with the HHS program, where they are UNDERSIZED in every game they play! This is a team that wins with execution of players that are shorter and lighter than their competition week in and week out! The difference is, the 6-5 kid that you are most familiar with (Towles) has been in Ft. Thomas his whole life!

[Can you dig it?]

you can put lame at the end of your sentence all you want just proves my point TOUCHY, i havent said a bad thing against your school and if we lived north my kid would go to highlands, but come on seriously we got a feeder program here as well but it dont year after year put out 6'6 6'5 6'4 athletes like highlands so i dont think your feeder program makes kids grow heck it might be something in the water,,,:biglmao:

Again, not touchy, just tired of it. I'm sure there are 6'4", 6'5" and 6'6" kids wandering the halls of most schools who just don't want to put forth the effort and play. The difference in Ft. Thomas is that the bulk of them DO want to play, in some cases just to say they did. The whole town buys in, and always has to some point, but since Dale Mueller came to town it has ramped up exponentially. Like Stardust pointed out, the Ft. Thomas Junior League doesn't just produce players for Highlands, but also for NewCath and Campbell County, if not others. Did you ever hear a Highlands fan complaining about that?

[Can you dig it?]

You obviously are not familiar with the HHS program, where they are UNDERSIZED in every game they play! This is a team that wins with execution of players that are shorter and lighter than their competition week in and week out! The difference is, the 6-5 kid that you are most familiar with (Towles) has been in Ft. Thomas his whole life!

The most vivid example of this was in 2009 when Cam Dierig, all 5'9" of Highlands D-lineman, made the offensive lineman from Cincinnat St. X, a D1 recruit, look like he had his feet nailed into the line all night.

[warmachine]

Highlands 52
Johnson Central 6

[rustyankle]

Guys i am a fan of HHS as stated before if we lived north thats where my son would play, but I think you need to be realistic about some of this saying that its all from 4th grade up everywhere has feeder program and im sure highlands runs it fine just like lot other places I guess the prestige and state titles recruits players for ya but i was born at night but not lastnight guys and for the guy thinking i was devalue his kids hard work and effort that not what i was stating

[Thunder 44]

The most vivid example of this was in 2009 when Cam Dierig, all 5'9" of Highlands D-lineman, made the offensive lineman from Cincinnat St. X, a D1 recruit, look like he had his feet nailed into the line all night.

Great image from that night!

[Thunder 44]

Guys i am a fan of HHS as stated before if we lived north thats where my son would play, but I think you need to be realistic about some of this saying that its all from 4th grade up everywhere has feeder program and im sure highlands runs it fine just like lot other places I guess the prestige and state titles recruits players for ya but i was born at night but not lastnight guys and for the guy thinking i was devalue his kids hard work and effort that not what i was stating

Rusty,

It is humorous that since you don't "get" what makes HHS so successful that you simply want to chalk it up to recruiting. Since you can't see the 1000's of things that have made the program successful, it has to be the fact that every one of the players on the field each Friday night lives someplace other than in Ft. Thomas.

As stated above, even by non-HHS fans, the FT JFL is one of the foundational elements of our successful program. You're right, others run good youth programs (wish more did), but I would be surprised to find any that equal the amount of preparation and playing time for every player on every team (not just the starters) that is mandated in this league.

Beyond the junior league, there really are at least 999 other things that have made the program what it is today. Great coaching, community support, devoted fans, school administration support, volunteers, parental support (can't forget the moms who decorate the locker room and player's home doors the night before games!), player offseason work ethic, and on and on and on. I'm sure the team you support has some/many/most or even all of these 1000 things, but to what degree?

To simply chock it up to "recruiting" just because you can't see it, feel it or touch it lumps you in with every other narrow-minded poster on this board (and every other board) who wants to look for the easy answer.

[OffTheHook]

Maybe I am wrong, but I believe you are referring to Johnson County, population, 24,000+-. Deduct the 4000+- living in Paintsville, and we are back to your original number of 20,000.

The population of boys in the school matters. The ability of the coaching staff to get the athletes out of the halls and on to the field matters. The feeder system from little leagues matters. If you want to build a winner, you have to start WAY before the middle school or freshman year.

100% Agree! But, still 12,000<18,000.

[Stardust]

The most vivid example of this was in 2009 when Cam Dierig, all 5'9" of Highlands D-lineman, made the offensive lineman from Cincinnat St. X, a D1 recruit, look like he had his feet nailed into the line all night.

That's not fair that HHS should be blessed with such physical prowess! How far East did the Birds have to go to recruit this MONSTER!!!

[Keepnitreal]

We're not as touchy about the recruiting BS as we are tired of it. It's always been the last resort of the fans of teams that couldn't hang with the Bluebirds. Again, :lame:

JC's one of the few teams that has been able to keep it respectable the past couple of years.

2010 - Dropped a TD pass in the endzone that could have tied the game with about 1 minute left.

2009 - Was a fairly close game at the half, HHS wins by 21.

2008 - JC driving for a score which also could have tied the game when our FB fumbled the football and the Bluebirds DT picks it up and returns it about 75 yards for a TD.

I as a JC fan I love this game. It's a true measuring stick for our program. Just think, prior to 2004 we were a joke. But now we are playing one of the best programs in the state for the right to play for a state title yearly. I love it. WHEN we do final get that win over the Bluebirds, how much more sweet will it be that we got it over them instead of avoiding them. We will truely be the State Champion when that happens.

I just hope it doesn't take 40 years like the first Belfry win did.....LOL