[Whatever8]

true that just stood out to me,

What about the weird 30yd penalty(ies) against Harlan that let Boro kick off from basically the end zone. I didn't understand that whole deal. :Shaking:

[Whatever8]

Didn't say that last post right...but I couldn't figure out what happened anyway.

[CanYouLiveWithoutIt]

Yea the reffing was bad both ways i wasnt trying to insinuate that the calls cost one team or another the game. Still a great game regardless anybody who didn't come out to see it missed a great one

[CanYouLiveWithoutIt]

yea im not quite sure what happened either

[Whatever8]

Yea the reffing was bad both ways i wasnt trying to insinuate that the calls cost one team or another the game. Still a great game regardless anybody who didn't come out to see it missed a great one

Totally agree...great game. Just giving you a hard time. lol.

[Daniel_BellCo]

wow i didn't think this woulda happen.. Chuckles.... Congrats to harlan

[Yellow Jacket fan]

First off let me say Congratulations Dragons, I knew this would be a great game, and it was. You made the plays when Middlesboro didn't. You caught the passes when Middlesboro didn't.

As a fellow official, I'm not going to say anything about the officiating itself. But let me explain the calls that allowed Middlesboro to kickoff from the Harlan 30 yard line.

The call on the touchdown was for a horse collar tackle in the end zone. Middlesboro had a choice of taking the penalty half the distance to the goal on the PAT, or 15 yards on the kickoff. Middlesboro chose the later, which moved the kickoff spot from their 40 to the Harlan 45.

On the PAT, Harlan roughed the kicker. That's a 15 yard penalty on the ensuing kickoff. That moved the kickoff spot from Harlan's 45 to Harlan's 30.

Saragas had a great game, seemed very poised and was very smart with the football. The interception in the end zone was great. That was a play I would expect to see on Saturday. And the reception on the sideline was right in front of me. He got the one foot down as needed and had control of the football before he went out of bounds.

Middlesboro needs to work on catching the ball and looking the ball into their hands before turning their head and looking to head up field. There were a lot of drops that should not have happened. Including once when the ball hit the Middlesboro player right between the numbers.

[LeeCoUKFan]

WOW! Sounds like a shootout to me!!

Congrats Dragons!

[Whatever8]

Thanks YJF...didn't understand there was a choice on that first penalty. Appreciate the explanation.

Both teams played hard. Definitely a nail biter for both sides.

[Dragonsdad]

First off let me say Congratulations Dragons, I knew this would be a great game, and it was. You made the plays when Middlesboro didn't. You caught the passes when Middlesboro didn't.

As a fellow official, I'm not going to say anything about the officiating itself. But let me explain the calls that allowed Middlesboro to kickoff from the Harlan 30 yard line.

The call on the touchdown was for a horse collar tackle in the end zone. Middlesboro had a choice of taking the penalty half the distance to the goal on the PAT, or 15 yards on the kickoff. Middlesboro chose the later, which moved the kickoff spot from their 40 to the Harlan 45.

On the PAT, Harlan roughed the kicker. That's a 15 yard penalty on the ensuing kickoff. That moved the kickoff spot from Harlan's 45 to Harlan's 30.

Saragas had a great game, seemed very poised and was very smart with the football. The interception in the end zone was great. That was a play I would expect to see on Saturday. And the reception on the sideline was right in front of me. He got the one foot down as needed and had control of the football before he went out of bounds.

Middlesboro needs to work on catching the ball and looking the ball into their hands before turning their head and looking to head up field. There were a lot of drops that should not have happened. Including once when the ball hit the Middlesboro player right between the numbers.

I can respect that Congrats YJF. Middlesboro ought to be proud to have a fan and official like you. It's Intimidator I'm worried about,LOL. Had you all have won the game I would have treated you the same. It's the way it should be. Just good fun. Middlesboro's player's played their hearts out and just barely came up short. The two teams are about as evenly matched as you will find in the mountains and the Yellowjacket's have nothing to hang their heads over. I hope you guy's are on the schedule again for next year,it's been great fun. Maybe I'll come down one sunday and we can go to church together with ole cousin Steve. YJF,you have a good rest of the season.

[Yellow Jacket fan]

And let me add this, this is not meant as a smart ass remark.

If you think you can do better than the officials out on the field/court, then please join us on the field. I can help you get where you need to go to be able to register to be an official.

[Yellow Jacket fan]

Thanks YJF...didn't understand there was a choice on that first penalty. Appreciate the explanation.

Both teams played hard. Definitely a nail biter for both sides.

There's always a choice with every penalty. It may be as simple as accepting the penalty or declining the penalty or as complicated as taking the penalty on the point after attempt (PAT) or on the kickoff.

As I explained earlier, with the penalty on the play that Middlesboro scored the touchdown on, Middlesboro could have taken penalty and had the ball on the one and a half (half the distance from the original PAT spot, which is the three) or taken the 15 yards on the kickoff. Middlesboro chose the latter.

Then Harlan was called for roughing the kicker on the PAT. That gave Middlesboro another choice. If the PAT was missed, then Middlesboro could have accepted the penalty (half the distance to the goal) and attempted to kick again or gone for the two point conversion. Or they could have accepted the penalty on the kickoff. But since the PAT was made, there was no reason to take the point off the board, so the only other option was to take the penalty on the kickoff.

Fifteen yards from the original spot of the kickoff, which was the Middlesboro 40 yard line (remember High School teams still kick from the 40, College from the 30, NFL is back to the 35 (was the 30)) moves the ball to the Harlan 45. Fifteen additional yards due to the 2nd penalty moves it to the Harlan 30.

[Whatever8]

And let me add this, this is not meant as a smart ass remark.

If you think you can do better than the officials out on the field/court, then please join us on the field. I can help you get where you need to go to be able to register to be an official.

No disrespect was intended. I could definitely not be an official. With that said, it wouldn't be football if the fans didn't find a call or two or more to question.
:thanks:

[Dragonsdad]

I think that Harlan had more fans at the game than the homestanding Jackets. I really hope that their fan base starts to come out and support them. Their team really plays hard and gives it their all. I heard Mboro fans saying that losing to Harlan was an embarassment. Not supporting your team is an embarassment. They had so many poster's on here making outrageous claims that their team or just about any other team,couldn't backup. Then they don't show up to prod their team on or at least come on here and say they were proud of their effort. The Yellowjacket's deserve so much better than that from their "not so" faithful. The Jacket's have the playoffs coming at the end of this season and I hope they get all the support they can. And to the fans that did show up,keep it up and cheer these guys on. They are a worthy team.

[Dragonsdad]

JR Ty Saragas's stat's through week 3.

GM's ATT COM INT YD's TD's AVG yd's COM%
3 94 58 2 906 9 301 61%

[hitemup]

And let me add this, this is not meant as a smart ass remark.

If you think you can do better than the officials out on the field/court, then please join us on the field. I can help you get where you need to go to be able to register to be an official.

Let me add this, this is not meant as a smart ass remark, but i can do and am better. I still haven't heard anyone explain the block in the back call on Harlan while they were on defense. If you ask me, I find it impressive that Harlan won the game when they were out there blocking on defense...

[hitemup]

Where are all of those Jacket fans now?

[Yellow Jacket fan]

Let me add this, this is not meant as a smart ass remark, but i can do and am better. I still haven't heard anyone explain the block in the back call on Harlan while they were on defense. If you ask me, I find it impressive that Harlan won the game when they were out there blocking on defense...

I can't explain what I didn't see with my own eyes clearly. I was on the Harlan side of the field running the chains and did not clearly see anything.

As for the Yellow Jacket fans, I am here.

People around here only really show up for either Middlesboro vs Bell County or if Middlesboro was in like the state semi-final or final. It's a shame that more people would rather sit at home or go do something else instead of coming out and supporting these kids who work so hard to represent this great city.

[mommacat]

IMO one thing the Jackets need to work on is when they start falling behind or losing they need to not get so rattled and pull together, instead of getting so shaken, it will cost you the game!!

[jackbenimble]

The worst ref crew in the mountains was at the Hazard/Somerset game.

[hitemup]

The worst ref crew in the mountains was at the Hazard/Somerset game.

no way

[Dragonsdad]

no way

You are right ,Hitemup, the worst ref's in the whole state were right there in Mboro cheering the hometeam on. In the first when the score became 21-7,Mboro's offense got an official's escort all the way down to the goalline.3 flags I think. They knew if we we got the ball back and scored again,it was over before it even got started.

[hitemup]

I believe that anytime you get a crew from your own county at an away game they try to call the other way as much as possible so that people will not think that they are cheating for their hometown team. When what I wish they would do is call it fair and right.

[Dragonsdad]

I believe that anytime you get a crew from your own county at an away game they try to call the other way as much as possible so that people will not think that they are cheating for their hometown team. When what I wish they would do is call it fair and right.

I knew one of the officials was from Harlan but I had no idea where the others were from. If they all were from Harlan Co. then I take back what I said when I said they were cheering the hometeam on. I should not have said that. But it doesn't change things that much because we for sure got the short end of the stick in the deal. I know that there is going to be calls that are not going to be exact. But sheesh,that lopsided. Come on.

[offside]

I believe that anytime you get a crew from your own county at an away game they try to call the other way as much as possible so that people will not think that they are cheating for their hometown team. When what I wish they would do is call it fair and right.

I find it interesting that it is a common sentiment among fans in the eastern part of the state that officials are biased toward "their hometown team". Many refs in other parts of the state routinely officiate games for thier alma maters and it is never mentioned in the game threads.

The intent of the question is neither to offend nor defend anybody; I'm just curious why this perception appears to be common here and not elsewhere.

Is it because there are perhaps fewer officials here and their backgrounds are more widely known, thus creating skepticism? Is there actual evidence of officials malfeasance in the past? Or, is it merely a biproduct of more rabid fan bases for each local team here than other areas of the state?

Again, I'm not asking to stir the pot in any direction. I'm interested in opinions about something that I find interesting.

[BellCoBobcats09]

Chase Roark needs to be on a better team period. Too many dropped passes from his receivers.

[Dragonsdad]

Chase Roark needs to be on a better team period. Too many dropped passes from his receivers.

I think anytime you throw 45 passes you are going to have a few dropped passes. I also give you that Roark's completion % was down a bunch,but alot of that was due to good pass coverage. We had several deflections and 3 picks. The deflection on the last play in overtime was a bigtime play. It was also hard for Roark to pass on the run as the dragon's pressured him all night. I would just about say that we pressured him as much as Bell did if not more. Our D-ends and blitzing linebackers were in his face a lot and sacked him a few times. He had less scrambling yd's against the Dragon's than Bell. Now I know that Bell is Bell and Harlan is Harlan but our defensive line did a pretty good job on him. You have to remember we are 1A and only had 28 players and only about 17 or 18 of them play. Middlesboro put fresh legs in the game all night. We could not afford that luxury.

[PHSForever]

I find it interesting that it is a common sentiment among fans in the eastern part of the state that officials are biased toward "their hometown team". Many refs in other parts of the state routinely officiate games for thier alma maters and it is never mentioned in the game threads.

The intent of the question is neither to offend nor defend anybody; I'm just curious why this perception appears to be common here and not elsewhere.

Is it because there are perhaps fewer officials here and their backgrounds are more widely known, thus creating skepticism? Is there actual evidence of officials malfeasance in the past? Or, is it merely a biproduct of more rabid fan bases for each local team here than other areas of the state?

Again, I'm not asking to stir the pot in any direction. I'm interested in opinions about something that I find interesting.

It's a combination of things. Primarily smaller population tends to know the refs a little better as you hypothesized, I'm sure. Frankly, I was gone for many years before coming back here, and I'm just being honest when I say that A) the crews seem a little better and more objective than I seem to remember years ago, and B) they still have a ways to go in terms of understanding what to look for or how to look for it. I'll give you an example. I noticed that several of the striped shirts have a tendency to watch the ball in flight on passes. Line judge, back judges, etc are not keeping their eyes on the actual area of responsibility sometimes. But I've also noticed many younger refs, so maybe that's just something they pick up with experience

[CanYouLiveWithoutIt]

I think anytime you throw 45 passes you are going to have a few dropped passes. I also give you that Roark's completion % was down a bunch,but alot of that was due to good pass coverage. We had several deflections and 3 picks. The deflection on the last play in overtime was a bigtime play. It was also hard for Roark to pass on the run as the dragon's pressured him all night. I would just about say that we pressured him as much as Bell did if not more. Our D-ends and blitzing linebackers were in his face a lot and sacked him a few times. He had less scrambling yd's against the Dragon's than Bell. Now I know that Bell is Bell and Harlan is Harlan but our defensive line did a pretty good job on him. You have to remember we are 1A and only had 28 players and only about 17 or 18 of them play. Middlesboro put fresh legs in the game all night. We could not afford that luxury.

I wont argue that you all got a good pass rush much of the night but his completion percentage didn't suffer due to coverage, it was drops, roark hit one of his slots on an out(wide open) several times and the kid dropped about 5 of them as well as hitting the hole between hook zones and the kids dropping it, I'm proud of harlan for winning and I don't wanna take away from the win bc a win is a win and they did what needed to be done to get it but the boro receivers had way too many drops when uncovered to say it was coverage alone

[Dragonsdad]

I wont argue that you all got a good pass rush much of the night but his completion percentage didn't suffer due to coverage, it was drops, roark hit one of his slots on an out(wide open) several times and the kid dropped about 5 of them as well as hitting the hole between hook zones and the kids dropping it, I'm proud of harlan for winning and I don't wanna take away from the win bc a win is a win and they did what needed to be done to get it but the boro receivers had way too many drops when uncovered to say it was coverage alone

I never said it was coverage alone. I said that when you throw the ball 45 times you will have some dropped balls. Add to that some good defense and you'll come up with a lower passing percentage. But it could have been better,I'll grant you that. I think Mboro has a good recieving corp. The Harris kid has hands like glue most of the time and so does riddle. Poindexter is a fairly good reciever but could be better and Tanner Mike is about the same. Roark should have had 6 or 7 more receptions on the game and that hurt'em.