[nky]

If retards would quit downloading music and movies than we wouldnt be in this situation.
I dont see the harm in indiviuals posting pictures or articles from other sites without sourcing them since there not trying to get any monetary gain, however downloading stuff that you should be buying when you know its wrong is the complete intent of this bill.
These types of bills needs to be modified greatly. Instead of punishing harmless sites like google and facebook, they need to target things such as piratebay and even wicked that does post stuff without consent.

Agreed. Funny how Some (even on this site hh claim a moral stance in life, a profound Belief in something bigger than us yet they think nothing of stealing other peoples property( #8 )

We need to take a moral high ground

[Wildcatk23]

^How did you get time to watch 300 movies? lol

Lol, I'm a movie addict. I watch at least a movie a day.

[Wildcatk23]

Agreed. Funny how Some (even on this site hh claim a moral stance in life, a profound Belief in something bigger than us yet they think nothing of stealing other peoples property( #8 )

We need to take a moral high ground

I hope you have never broke the speed limit.

[nky]

speeding doesn't take money out of someone else pocket. Stealing intellectual property does

[GrappleKing]

Ive been lucky enough to stay out of jail my entire life However, if the fbi ever came in and saw the 3 hard drives connected to my computer id spend more time in jail then a child rapist.
I see no problem with it as long as people arent selling it. Personal use is fair game.

[Hoot Gibson]

Agreed. Funny how Some (even on this site hh claim a moral stance in life, a profound Belief in something bigger than us yet they think nothing of stealing other peoples property( #8 )

We need to take a moral high ground

I agree. Downloading copyrighted material or plagiarizing others' work and representing it as your own (a frequent occurrence on this site) is theft. People who compare theft to speeding or getting parking tickets just don't get it, IMO. I develop software for a living and believe that pirating is a serious problem deserving serious consequences.

However, I am much more worried about giving our federal government more control over the internet.

[Hoot Gibson]

Ive been lucky enough to stay out of jail my entire life However, if the fbi ever came in and saw the 3 hard drives connected to my computer id spend more time in jail then a child rapist.
I see no problem with it as long as people arent selling it. Personal use is fair game.

No it isn't. The only reason that we have good movies, books, and software is that programmers and authors' work is protected by copyright laws to ensure that they are compensated for their efforts. As nky said, stealing copyrighted material is taking money out of somebody's pocket who has earned payment for his or her work. Nothing personal, but if you have filled three hard drives with stolen material, then you deserve some jail time, along with a hefty fine.

[Wildcatk23]

speeding doesn't take money out of someone else pocket. Stealing intellectual property does

Your right it just endangers lives. Who cares tho, its all about the money.

[Wildcatk23]

I agree. Downloading copyrighted material or plagiarizing others' work and representing it as your own (a frequent occurrence on this site) is theft. People who compare theft to speeding or getting parking tickets just don't get it, IMO. I develop software for a living and believe that pirating is a serious problem deserving serious consequences.

However, I am much more worried about giving our federal government more control over the internet.

YOu think a Drunk driver doesnt deserve serious consequences. But someone stealing software does?

[Hoot Gibson]

YOu think a Drunk driver doesnt deserve serious consequences. But someone stealing software does?

I have never said that drunk drivers don't deserve some serious consequences - they do, but first time offenders don't deserve to lose their licenses for life.

Thieves are thieves. If you steal a car for your own use, your are just as guilty of theft as if you stole it to resell it. The same goes for music and software. If you believe it is wrong to steal, you cannot possibly believe that it is okay to pirate intellectual property.

[Wildcatk23]

I have never said that drunk drivers don't deserve some serious consequences - they do, but first time offenders don't deserve to lose their licenses for life.

Thieves are thieves. If you steal a car for your own use, your are just as guilty of theft as if you stole it to resell it. The same goes for music and software. If you believe it is wrong to steal, you cannot possibly believe that it is okay to pirate intellectual property.

If i remember correctly it was They shouldnt receive any jail time for a first offense.

This isn't stealing a car. Its downloading a pirated movie. Or Microsoft office. Or anything. A college student that is $25000 in debt already isnt going to spend $120 for Office. There Going to torrent it. If Software companies wouldnt charge an arm and a leg for something they know we need. Then we wouldnt pirate it. Like movies now being $11 instead of $3 from my sophomore year.

[Hoot Gibson]

If i remember correctly it was They shouldnt receive any jail time for a first offense.

This isn't stealing a car. Its downloading a pirated movie. Or Microsoft office. Or anything. A college student that is $25000 in debt already isnt going to spend $120 for Office. There Going to torrent it. If Software companies wouldnt charge an arm and a leg for something they know we need. Then we wouldnt pirate it. Like movies now being $11 instead of $3 from my sophomore year.

There is no justification for stealing software. If you think that it is priced to high, then download Open Office. The same goes for movies. Watching movies is a luxury. If an honest person cannot afford a luxury, then they do without it until they can afford it.

It's not my place to judge you or anybody else for stealing intellectual property but I will never understand why people believe that they are justified in stealing luxury items simply because they believe the items are over priced. That kind of reasoning places people on very slippery slopes. Nobody forces college students to go deeply in debt and the victims of theft are not to blame for those debts.

[LWC]

Remember it isn't stealing a car, it is stealing the idea of the concept of the car, lol. The intellectual property of the car. lol

[RunItUpTheGut]

Agreed. Funny how Some (even on this site hh claim a moral stance in life, a profound Belief in something bigger than us yet they think nothing of stealing other peoples property( #8 )

We need to take a moral high ground

Couldnt agree more NKY.
If i want to watch a movie i will either go to the movies and pay a whopping seven dollars (talk about breaking the bank) or if i want to listen to music i will go to something like youtube and listen to it legally as things like VEVO has pretty much bought the right to play all the songs legally.
Its so funny how people post youtube videos of songs with lyrics or something and then put a disclaimer up saying, "no intention of copyright is being made" or something.

People hate ads. You see in comment boxes all the time how they cant stand them. While they are annoying, there still getting the stuff to you FREE while paying the artist.

Im no saint, but i dont steal copyrighted stff off the net. Its the sole reason why in college teachers go NUTS over plagiarism and make you cite your sources everytime, because if you dont, its considered stealing like it or not.

[RunItUpTheGut]

Your right it just endangers lives. Who cares tho, its all about the money.

For someone who is a self confessed biggest fan ever of harry potter you more than anyone should hate pirating.
I would take a guess that as popular as those books and movies are among people, that the Potter franchise has lot millions.
So lets say everyone did what you did, you could kiss those things goodbye.
If they cant make money they wont keep writing and thus your favorite series of all time would be non existent.

[Wildcatk23]

For someone who is a self confessed biggest fan ever of harry potter you more than anyone should hate pirating.
I would take a guess that as popular as those books and movies are among people, that the Potter franchise has lot millions.
So lets say everyone did what you did, you could kiss those things goodbye.
If they cant make money they wont keep writing and thus your favorite series of all time would be non existent.

But instead of a few pirated movies breaking the author she's the richest woman in England.

[vundy33]

I agree with not stealing intellectual property, but this bill just worded it wrong, that's all. And it's dead anyway.

[RunItUpTheGut]

But instead of a few pirated movies breaking the author she's the richest woman in England.

Its still the principal.
If your allowed to pirate the works of the richest woman in england than you'd be allowed to pirate the work of a nobody that could potentially go bankrupt from this.
This is not how capitalism works.
Earn your money. Spend your money. Dont steal.

I understand your point that shes not going to miss it, but it still doesnt make it right.

[Wildcatk23]

Its still the principal.
If your allowed to pirate the works of the richest woman in england than you'd be allowed to pirate the work of a nobody that could potentially go bankrupt from this.
This is not how capitalism works.
Earn your money. Spend your money. Dont steal.

I understand your point that shes not going to miss it, but it still doesnt make it right.

I never said it was right, Or that anyone should do it. But me downloading music is the same as you doing 56 in a 55. Im breaking the law, Your breaking the law. SOMetimes you get caught sometimes "pirates" get caught.

I know its not stealing. But there both laws.

[Hoot Gibson]

I never said it was right, Or that anyone should do it. But me downloading music is the same as you doing 56 in a 55. Im breaking the law, Your breaking the law. SOMetimes you get caught sometimes "pirates" get caught.

I know its not stealing. But there both laws.

But it is stealing. Pirating is just a euphemism and "pirate" is just a euphemism for thief.

Speeding and jaywalking are both against the law but neither constitutes a theft of somebody else's property. Nobody is equating ax murder, which is also against the law with stealing intellectual property, because that would be as bad as your driving 56 in a 55 mph zone analogy.

Stealing a wealthy person's wallet would be a better analogy. Would it be okay to steal the cash from Bill Gate's wallet because he is wealthy, would not miss the money, and you needed the money to pay off a student loan?

[nky]

justify all you want but it is still stealing. It is not a "victimless" crime, it is not some altruistic idea that "their" charging to much for thing you are stealing. Most businesses add money to the cost of doing business because of people stealing from them this raise the price of all goods to everyone.

[RunItUpTheGut]

I never said it was right, Or that anyone should do it. But me downloading music is the same as you doing 56 in a 55. Im breaking the law, Your breaking the law. SOMetimes you get caught sometimes "pirates" get caught.

I know its not stealing. But there both laws.

Laws are not sins and there not all equal.
If your doing 56 in a 55 and get a ticket for one mile per hour over, oh well, nobody was harmed in the process and it was a victim less crime, and you might get a 10 dollar fine if the judge even upholds it.

With pirating, coreect me if im wrong, but the maximum penalty is 10 years in prison and a 500,000 dollar fine or something like.
Im not judge but ive never heard of any speeding ticket costing somebody ten years in prison and 500,000 dollars.

[nky]

http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/01/21/mega...?hpt=hp_t3

international raid on Megaupload broke Thursday in the U.S., Internet aficionados got a glimpse at the man behind of the largest file-sharing websites in the world

Here's the man helping the little guy

2005: The year Dotcom founded Megaupload, headquartered in Hong Kong. Authorities say that while some of its file-sharing business was legitimate, the site was also a major clearinghouse for illegally pirated movies, TV shows and software
$12,000: The alleged cost per day of the Hong Kong luxury hotel room hosting Megaupload’s main office.
$4.9 million: The estimated worth of the 18 cars seized at Dotcom’s estate. The haul-away included 15 Mercedes-Benzes, a pink 1959 Cadillac, and a Rolls-Royce Phantom Drophead Coupe worth more than $400,000. His license plates told a tale of pompousness, reading KIMCOM, HACKER, STONED, GUILTY, MAFIA, GOD and POLICE.
$24 million: The price tag (in USD) on the 25,000-square-foot sprawling mansion Dotcom leases in Coatesville, New Zealand, 15 miles northwest of Auckland. Costing $30 million New Zealand Dollars, it’s one of the most expensive properties in the country.
$175 million: The total worth of assets owned by Dotcom and his Megaupload employees, according to the U.S. Department of Justice. The figure includes vehicles, artwork, bank accounts, and a smattering of giant screen televisions.
$500 million: Monetary damage to copyright holders caused by Megaupload, as estimated by the U.S. Department of Justice.


Read more: http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/01/21/mega...z1kJObWQi7

[Wildcatk23]

But it is stealing. Pirating is just a euphemism and "pirate" is just a euphemism for thief.

Speeding and jaywalking are both against the law but neither constitutes a theft of somebody else's property. Nobody is equating ax murder, which is also against the law with stealing intellectual property, because that would be as bad as your driving 56 in a 55 mph zone analogy.

Stealing a wealthy person's wallet would be a better analogy. Would it be okay to steal the cash from Bill Gate's wallet because he is wealthy, would not miss the money, and you needed the money to pay off a student loan?

YOu realize i was talking about the Speeding Ticket right. Just another attempt of you to try and make someone twist there words.

[Wildcatk23]

Laws are not sins and there not all equal.
If your doing 56 in a 55 and get a ticket for one mile per hour over, oh well, nobody was harmed in the process and it was a victim less crime, and you might get a 10 dollar fine if the judge even upholds it.

With pirating, coreect me if im wrong, but the maximum penalty is 10 years in prison and a 500,000 dollar fine or something like.
Im not judge but ive never heard of any speeding ticket costing somebody ten years in prison and 500,000 dollars.

OK say your going 56 and wreck and kill someone. YOu broke the law, same as Pirates. You just took away someones baby or wife or husband. While i just stole a 15$ dvd.

[Hoot Gibson]

YOu realize i was talking about the Speeding Ticket right. Just another attempt of you to try and make someone twist there words.

No it was not an attempt to twist your words. I simply misread it and upon rereading it, I now understand that you did not intend to deny that pirating is stealing.

[Wildcatk23]

No it was not an attempt to twist your words. I simply misread it and upon rereading it, I now understand that you did not intend to deny that pirating is stealing.

I figured, But had to take a shot.

[Hoot Gibson]

OK say your going 56 and wreck and kill someone. YOu broke the law, same as Pirates. You just took away someones baby or wife or husband. While i just stole a 15$ dvd.

Intent matters. When you pirate software or music, you clearly intend to commit theft. While it it is very unlikely that traveling one mph over the legal speed limit would result in a death that could have been avoided at 55 mph, the intent of a driver going one mile an hour over the speed limit is not to kill another person. Another extremely bad analogy.

[Wildcatk23]

Intent matters. When you pirate software or music, you clearly intend to commit theft. While it it is very unlikely that traveling one mph over the legal speed limit would result in a death that could have been avoided at 55 mph, the intent of a driver going one mile an hour over the speed limit is not to kill another person. Another extremely bad analogy.

The intent when going over 1 mph is still the intent of breaking the law. You guys have been preaching moral values. I recall something like obey the laws of the land.

[Hoot Gibson]

The intent when going over 1 mph is still the intent of breaking the law. You guys have been preaching moral values. I recall something like obey the laws of the land.

Using your flawed logic, any theft from a wealthy individual or profitable corporation could be rationalized. The only difference between pirating a bunch of software, movies, and music and stealing a new Jaquar is the value of the item stolen. There is no excuse for stealing luxury items that a person can live without.

I don't mean to pick on you over this issue, WC, because I suspect that the majority of college student and young adults under 30 are guilty of pirating something. I appreciate your honesty in debating the topic.