[judgementday]

FRANKFORT (AP) - A bill to protect students from bullying by their classmates has died in the House Education Committee because of concerns by some lawmakers that it would give "special rights" to gay students.

The proposal by Rep. Mary Lou Marzian, a Louisville Democrat, failed to get the 15 votes it needed to pass the committee. The party-line vote on Tuesday was 13 in favor, 10 against and three abstentions.

Most of the Republicans who voted against the bill said a 2008 law sponsored by Democratic Rep. Mike Cherry of Princeton is a national model and is sufficient to protect students. But Marzian, who mentioned that Cherry was a sponsor of her bill, said hers was stronger because it specifies categories of students to be protected.

__

The bill is HB 336.

http://www.lex18.com/news/house-committe...gislation/


Anyone have an opinion on this? Being somone who has more experience with bullying then I would like to acknowledge, this annoys me.

[LWC]

If it cannot even pass the committee, it had no chance in the house itself.

[TheRealVille]

It annoys the hell out of me that Kentucky can't pass this simple legislation to stop this nonsense. The party line votes explain it all though.

[Old School]

It annoys the hell out of me that Kentucky can't pass this simple legislation to stop this nonsense. The party line votes explain it all though.

Why are you upset? The article said it would not treat everyone equally. Wouldn't it be better to have a policy that treated everyone equally?

[TheRealVille]

Why are you upset? The article said it would not treat everyone equally. Wouldn't it be better to have a policy that treated everyone equally?

Only a right wing condones bullying. I didn't expect any less from you. Yea, treated different, they would receive "special rights" not to have the shit beat out of them by the homophobes.

[Strikeout King]

I can't stand bullies. There no better than everyone else.

[Old School]

Only a right wing condones bullying. I didn't expect any less from you. Yea, treated different, they would receive "special rights" not to have the shit beat out of them by the homophobes.

How in the world did you derive from my comment that I condone bullying?

I simply stated that IMO it would be better to have a measure that would treat everyone equally, than to have one that didn't fix the problem.

[Wildcatk23]

Then we would need a bill to protect "geeks". Whites in black schools. Blacks in white schools. Mexicans in Asian schools. Or is this is what this is for? I'm driving to paintsville for some chinease and can't read it ATM.

[Amun-Ra]

"Special rights to gay students".... Hell with it. let's just allow them to get bullied to the point they kill themselves.

[RunItUpTheGut]

lol bullying has happened since the beggining of time. Except today we have stupid shit like facebook and other things that kids get on to bully kids.
Theres a fine line between freedom of speech and bullying.
If i wanna call a gay guy a fag, then its my right.
Is that bullying as well?

Not trying to be a asshole, just curious.

[judgementday]

lol bullying has happened since the beggining of time. Except today we have stupid shit like facebook and other things that kids get on to bully kids.
Theres a fine line between freedom of speech and bullying.
If i wanna call a gay guy a fag, then its my right.
Is that bullying as well?

Not trying to be a asshole, just curious.

Bullying has been here since the beginning of time because no one will stand up to a bully. Only in rare cases is this seen.

Bullying comes down to intent and the consistency in which it is done......to use your comment as an example.....calling a guy a fag once as a joke or because he made you mad (although IMO is not freedom of speech but it doesn't ruffle my feathers either) is not bullying......calling a guy a fag every day you see him with the INTENT to humiliate him or cause him anguish, that is bullying.

I am sorry but there is no fine line between freedom of speech and bullying. Kids do not have the right to torment and harrass other kids.

[TheRealVille]

"Special rights to gay students".... Hell with it. let's just allow them to get bullied to the point they kill themselves.

People like this comment is why the legislation needs to be passed. Unless that post was sarcasm, and I'm reading it completely backwards.

[LWC]

I think what the people that voted against it are trying to say is that they do not want "choice-consequences" to be protected in the bill. What I call "choice-consequences" are things, lifestyles, fashions, etc... that people choose to put upon themselves knowing there could be a negative recourse.

If I was in high school again, and I wore a shirt that said "I hate America, let's burn the ... soldiers", I am using a choice-consequence. I would be wearing that shirt knowing there was the chance I would get the tar stomped out of me. What right do I have to expect protection because of it? When Dr. King and others marched to Washington DC, did they expect the right to march without consequence? OR were they prepared to march, despite the consequences? Obviously their life should be protected, and if a fight starts, schools should try to protect them or anyone else. However, to ask students to accept it, is wrong. It is also wrong for teachers to have to follow the student around to ensure safety as well.

If I am scientifically wrong about that, or have misspoken please let me know. The alcohol tendencies is something I heard when I was in 7th grade, science changes quickly.

[nky]

Schools currently have plenty of options to "deal" with it. The problem is recognising it, a willingness to deal with it, or issues of ignoring it because you don't want your school to be labeled as a school that has bullying.

[LWC]

Maybe I am super-talented but it isn't hard to stop in-school bullying. You see a kid getting picked on, you lay down the law.

[Bob Seger]

Maybe I am super-talented but it isn't hard to stop in-school bullying. You see a kid getting picked on, you lay down the law.

Unfortunately in the schools in this county it means automatic expulsion even if you are in defensive mode. I dont agree with a policy that denies self defense, but it is what it is.

[judgementday]

Here is the summary of the bill

Amend KRS 158.148 to require the discipline code to prohibit harassment, intimidation, bullying, or cyberbullying against students and define term; amend KRS 525.070 to expand the crime of harassment to include harassment, intimidation, bullying, or cyberbulling as defined in KRS 158.148 by students on school property and at school-sponsored events.

How would this give special rights to gay students?

[nky]

Maybe I am super-talented but it isn't hard to stop in-school bullying. You see a kid getting picked on, you lay down the law.

in today's day and age alot of it comes online through facebook and it becomes a feeding frenzy not only online but on the bus, in the lunch room, in the classroom

[judgementday]

Unfortunately in the schools in this county it means automatic expulsion even if you are in defensive mode. I dont agree with a policy that denies self defense, but it is what it is.

Policies are meant for exceptions and ammendments which is why they are called policies and not laws...IMO

As a parent, whether my child is expelled or not, you defend yourself when all other avenues have not resolved the issue.

[judgementday]

Maybe I am super-talented but it isn't hard to stop in-school bullying. You see a kid getting picked on, you lay down the law.

You would think it was that simple but it isn't.....many teachers, school officials shy away from the conflict because they know in a matter of years that student(s) will be out of their school. Their response has always been "kids will be kids"...

[RunItUpTheGut]

In he case of gays i believe we should adopt the dont ask dont tell policy for the entire country.

[Hoot Gibson]

Here is the summary of the bill

Amend KRS 158.148 to require the discipline code to prohibit harassment, intimidation, bullying, or cyberbullying against students and define term; amend KRS 525.070 to expand the crime of harassment to include harassment, intimidation, bullying, or cyberbulling as defined in KRS 158.148 by students on school property and at school-sponsored events.

How would this give special rights to gay students?

Who could possibly say based on a summary of a bill? The actual bill lists sexual orientation as one of several qualifying characteristics that would give a student protection under the bill.

[TheRealVille]

Who could possibly say based on a summary of a bill? The actual bill lists sexual orientation as one of several qualifying characteristics that would give a student protection under the bill.

So, are you for or against protecting a child from bullying because of sexual orientation?

[Amun-Ra]

People like this comment is why the legislation needs to be passed. Unless that post was sarcasm, and I'm reading it completely backwards.

Yes, I was being sarcastic.

[TheRealVille]

Yes, I was being sarcastic.

I thought so. :Thumbs:

[judgementday]

Who could possibly say based on a summary of a bill? The actual bill lists sexual orientation as one of several qualifying characteristics that would give a student protection under the bill.

Then I guess I should have included what the bill was actually stating. One of the ammendments is listed below, the only part of the bill that lists sexual orientation.

The code shall prohibit harassment, intimidation, bullying, or cyberbullying. As used in this paragraph, "harassment, intimidation, bullying, or cyberbullying":
1. Means any written, verbal, or physical act or any electronic communication that is intended to:
a. Threaten or physically harm a student or damage the student's property;
b. Be so severe, persistent, or pervasive that it substantially interferes with a student's educational opportunities, or creates an intimidating or threatening educational environment; or
c. Substantially disrupt the orderly operation of the school; and
2. Includes any written, verbal, or physical act or electronic communication shown to be:
a. Motivated by a student's actual or perceived race; color; religion; national origin; ancestry or ethnicity; sexual orientation; physical, mental, emotional, or learning disability; gender; gender identity and expression; or other distinguishing personal characteristic; or
b. Based on association with any person identified by a distinguishing characteristic described in subdivision a. of this subparagraph.

Based on what is written, how could that give special rights to gay students? It doesn't single them out from the rest of the "distinguishing characteristics"

The point I am trying to make is that they chose an ignorant reason to not vote the bill through.

[TheRealVille]

Who could possibly say based on a summary of a bill? The actual bill lists sexual orientation as one of several qualifying characteristics that would give a student protection under the bill.

Not one thing in there gives anymore privileges to sexual orientation over anyone else that get's bullied.

[Hoot Gibson]

Then I guess I should have included what the bill was actually stating. One of the ammendments is listed below, the only part of the bill that lists sexual orientation.

The code shall prohibit harassment, intimidation, bullying, or cyberbullying. As used in this paragraph, "harassment, intimidation, bullying, or cyberbullying":
1. Means any written, verbal, or physical act or any electronic communication that is intended to:
a. Threaten or physically harm a student or damage the student's property;
b. Be so severe, persistent, or pervasive that it substantially interferes with a student's educational opportunities, or creates an intimidating or threatening educational environment; or
c. Substantially disrupt the orderly operation of the school; and
2. Includes any written, verbal, or physical act or electronic communication shown to be:
a. Motivated by a student's actual or perceived race; color; religion; national origin; ancestry or ethnicity; sexual orientation; physical, mental, emotional, or learning disability; gender; gender identity and expression; or other distinguishing personal characteristic; or
b. Based on association with any person identified by a distinguishing characteristic described in subdivision a. of this subparagraph.

Based on what is written, how could that give special rights to gay students? It doesn't single them out from the rest of the "distinguishing characteristics"

The point I am trying to make is that they chose an ignorant reason to not vote the bill through.

Please reread the bill, paying close attention to the conjunction "and." The proposed law would apply only to the defined protected classes, one of which is "sexual orientation." Both conditions 1 and 2 must be met (because of the use of "and") in order for the proposed law to apply. In other words, a little girl who is white, straight, intelligent, and with none of the "distinguishing characteristics" would not be protected under the law. She could be bullied for wearing the wrong colors to school, not wearing make-up, distorting the curve on a test, or an infinite number of reasons not mentioned in the bill - and she would not be protected by the law.

Correct me if I am wrong, but it is not legal for one person to physicall attack or harrass another person under current law.

The proposed bill is just another example of politicians trying to pander to certain voting blocs by creating special protected classes through legislation that applies only to those segments of society.

If another law against bullying is needed at all. then it should not exclude anybody from the added protection.

[judgementday]

Please reread the bill, paying close attention to the conjunction "and." The proposed law would apply only to the defined protected classes, one of which is "sexual orientation." Both conditions 1 and 2 must be met (because of the use of "and") in order for the proposed law to apply. In other words, a little girl who is white, straight, intelligent, and with none of the "distinguishing characteristics" would not be protected under the law. She could be bullied for wearing the wrong colors to school, not wearing make-up, distorting the curve on a test, or an infinite number of reasons not mentioned in the bill - and she would not be protected by the law.

Correct me if I am wrong, but it is not legal for one person to physicall attack or harrass another person under current law.

The proposed bill is just another example of politicians trying to pander to certain voting blocs by creating special protected classes through legislation that applies only to those segments of society.

If another law against bullying is needed at all. then it should not exclude anybody from the added protection.

I see what you are saying but wouldn't the bolded above fall under "other distinguishing personal characteristic"?

[RunItUpTheGut]

Whatever happened to being tough and standing up for yourself?
Now we have to have laws against a kid picking on a kid?
Its just ridicolous, i see this as a loophole kind of ways for gays to scream foul evertime someone calls them a name.