[Hoot Gibson]

You already lost your argument. You didn't say city schools. You described county seat schools. Edit: You said schools in cities that were the county seats.

No, Bob did not lose his argument, if you want to call it that. You left out the word usually from Bob's post. Most small schools that had football teams around the time Johnson County's schools consolidated to form Johnson Central were as Bob described them. Towns like Elkhorn City, Lynch, Wheelwright, and others had football teams because boys could make it to practices without all of them having cars to drive to practice. Others were too small to support a football team or were rural schools where transportation impeded the establishment of football programs.

It was fairly rare when the consolidated high schools that were formed in the mountains during the late 60s and early 70s were formed exclusively from schools that played football. That was my point and I believe that it was Bob's point as well. Political struggles over hiring decisions were difficult enough to deal with, but having to create football programs at the elementary, middle school, and high school levels where few teachers, administrators, or coaches had any experience playing or coaching organized football slowed development of the high school programs.

These were problems that larger city schools and schools located in more populous areas with better roads rarely appreciate. To many Highlands fans, creating a successful football program seems like a simple thing to do - just emulate their successful program. No high school football coach could have taken over at Johnson Central in the early 70s and fielded a successful football team. Not even the great Dale Mueller. They would have failed because the administration expected to win quickly, just as their basketball team did. With no feeder system, few competent football coaches in the system, the early JC coaches faced unrealistic expectations. I am sure that other consolidated schools of that era faced similar problems.

[MtnHSFootballFan]

No, Bob did not lose his argument, if you want to call it that. You left out the word usually from Bob's post. Most small schools that had football teams around the time Johnson County's schools consolidated to form Johnson Central were as Bob described them. Towns like Elkhorn City, Lynch, Wheelwright, and others had football teams because boys could make it to practices without all of them having cars to drive to practice. Others were too small to support a football team or were rural schools where transportation impeded the establishment of football programs.

It was fairly rare when the consolidated high schools that were formed in the mountains during the late 60s and early 70s were formed exclusively from schools that played football. That was my point and I believe that it was Bob's point as well. Political struggles over hiring decisions were difficult enough to deal with, but having to create football programs at the elementary, middle school, and high school levels where few teachers, administrators, or coaches had any experience playing or coaching organized football slowed development of the high school programs.

These were problems that larger city schools and schools located in more populous areas with better roads rarely appreciate. To many Highlands fans, creating a successful football program seems like a simple thing to do - just emulate their successful program. No high school football coach could have taken over at Johnson Central in the early 70s and fielded a successful football team. Not even the great Dale Mueller. They would have failed because the administration expected to win quickly, just as their basketball team did. With no feeder system, few competent football coaches in the system, the early JC coaches faced unrealistic expectations. I am sure that other consolidated schools of that era faced similar problems.

You lost your argument too because I quoted his post in it's entirety in my post that he replied too. Game over!

I replied to his post the way that he posted. Very simply. Put your glasses on and go back and read my original message that quoted him and see what he said and what I responded to.

Hey, I feel like the Golden Eagles must feel in their games this season. The opposition attacks and fumbles and I score in the first sentence.

Really I didn't mean to rile anyone up, just to add some history. I don't know how old the poster is but I have been around a while and I remember the facts. I tried to make sure that my first post would not provoke anyone and I only responded to the post the way it was written. He said, "I cant think of one single county school system that ever had a football team until the early to late 70's in eastern Kentucky." It's a fact that there were a lot of high school football teams around years ago in counties in Eastern KY other than Johnson County and most of them were not located in the county seats and they were there well before the 70's. Can anyone argue with that? Here's what he said and what I replied.

Originally Posted by Bob Seger [Image: http://www.bluegrassrivals.com/forum/ima...ewpost.gif]

It very well could have been Hoot, I really don't remember that part. But, for what it's worth, Johnson Central was really not that much different than most county schools in eastern Kentucky at that time. For many years it was usually only the city schools that served as their respective county seats that fielded football teams....Consolidation is the thing that can be attributed to football being what it is now in the mountains. Perhaps there were some, but I cant think of one single county school system that ever had a football team until the early to late 70's in eastern Kentucky.

I'll have to disagree with that statement. Floyd County had not only Prestonsburg but Wheelwright as far back as I can remember. (Wheelwright is now part of South Floyd.) Pike County had Belfry, Millard, Elkhorn City, at least 2 other schools that are now part of Pike County Central and maybe another team or two many years ago. Perry County had M. C. Napier and maybe another one or two. And Letcher County had Jenkins and Whitesburg. And that's just what I can think of right now. There may have been as many if not more county schools playing football in this area back then than city schools or county schools located in the county seat. Pike County skewed those numbers.

[Pulp Fiction]

1 2.... JC's coming for you. 3 4...... Better lock you doors!

[Image: http://bloody-disgusting.com/photosizer/...072209.jpg]

[Pulp Fiction]

[Image: http://mychinaconnection.com/wp-content/...nymore.jpg]

[Hoot Gibson]

You lost your argument too because I quoted his post in it's entirety in my post that he replied too. Game over!

I replied to his post the way that he posted. Very simply. Put your glasses on and go back and read my original message that quoted him and see what he said and what I responded to.

Hey, I feel like the Golden Eagles must feel in their games this season. The opposition attacks and fumbles and I score in the first sentence.

Really I didn't mean to rile anyone up, just to add some history. I don't know how old the poster is but I have been around a while and I remember the facts. I tried to make sure that my first post would not provoke anyone and I only responded to the post the way it was written. He said, "I cant think of one single county school system that ever had a football team until the early to late 70's in eastern Kentucky." It's a fact that there were a lot of high school football teams around years ago in counties in Eastern KY other than Johnson County and most of them were not located in the county seats and they were there well before the 70's. Can anyone argue with that? Here's what he said and what I replied.

Originally Posted by Bob Seger [Image: http://www.bluegrassrivals.com/forum/ima...ewpost.gif]

It very well could have been Hoot, I really don't remember that part. But, for what it's worth, Johnson Central was really not that much different than most county schools in eastern Kentucky at that time. For many years it was usually only the city schools that served as their respective county seats that fielded football teams....Consolidation is the thing that can be attributed to football being what it is now in the mountains. Perhaps there were some, but I cant think of one single county school system that ever had a football team until the early to late 70's in eastern Kentucky.

I'll have to disagree with that statement. Floyd County had not only Prestonsburg but Wheelwright as far back as I can remember. (Wheelwright is now part of South Floyd.) Pike County had Belfry, Millard, Elkhorn City, at least 2 other schools that are now part of Pike County Central and maybe another team or two many years ago. Perry County had M. C. Napier and maybe another one or two. And Letcher County had Jenkins and Whitesburg. And that's just what I can think of right now. There may have been as many if not more county schools playing football in this area back then than city schools or county schools located in the county seat. Pike County skewed those numbers.

You mischaracterized Bob's post and declared victory. Bob never said that there were no schools other than those located in county seats that played football and neither did I, yet that is the position that you argued against. That is what is known as a straw man argument, and if you consider successfully arguing against a position that you defined on your own, then you will never lose a debate.

BTW, Bob and I were discussing the consolidation of Johnson Central and other rural school systems in the early 70s. The consolidations that you cited as you claimed victory are all much more recent. A straw man argument, and a weak one at that.

[Hoot Gibson]

:biglmao: I'm sure JC will "running clock" their way through the rest of the season, but I can't wait until we come down to the Eagles nest. It should only last a few minutes because that clock shall be running!

You do that, Wide. Be sure to come to Paintsville for the regional final game between JC and Highlands. :hilarious:

[Pulp Fiction]

[Image: http://christmasmovies.me/images/movies/29th_street.jpg]

[Pulp Fiction]

A Nightmare on Elm Street - CHECK
Dorthy/Wizard Of Oz - CHECK
29th Street - CHECK


Thanks Ashland....your stadium location is very popular in our modern culture.

[MtnHSFootballFan]

You mischaracterized Bob's post and declared victory. Bob never said that there were no schools other than those located in county seats that played football and neither did I, yet that is the position that you argued against. That is what is known as a straw man argument, and if you consider successfully arguing against a position that you defined on your own, then you will never lose a debate.

BTW, Bob and I were discussing the consolidation of Johnson Central and other rural school systems in the early 70s. The consolidations that you cited as you claimed victory are all much more recent. A straw man argument, and a weak one at that.

Like I said I was just posting facts and responding to his post, but you keep wanting to change things to try to show me wrong somewhere. And I wasn't even replying to one of your posts or talking to or about you. I just made a post based on his and then have had to defend that and try to keep the replies on topic. You guys have a good time. I'm trying to not respond in kind to your provocative posts toward me. And if the first poster took my first post as an attack, I assure him that was not my intention.

[Hoot Gibson]

Like I said I was just posting facts and responding to his post, but you keep wanting to change things to try to show me wrong somewhere. And I wasn't even replying to one of your posts or talking to or about you. I just made a post based on his and then have had to defend that and try to keep the replies on topic. You guys have a good time. I'm trying to not respond in kind to your provocative posts toward me. And if the first poster took my first post as an attack, I assure him that was not my intention.

Nor was it my intent to start an argument. Like you, Bob and I were trying to provide some history of Johnson Central's football program. I attended games between Lynch, Elkhorn City, Paintsville, Pikeville, and some of the other schools that you mentioned in the early 70s, and I am sure that Bob did too. I don't remember watching Millard, Virgie, Dorton, Johns Creek, Mullins, Phelps, and other Pike County schools' football teams play during that time, but that could simply be because they were not on either Johnson Central's or Paintsville's schedule during that period.

[Bob Seger]

Like I said I was just posting facts and responding to his post, but you keep wanting to change things to try to show me wrong somewhere. And I wasn't even replying to one of your posts or talking to or about you. I just made a post based on his and then have had to defend that and try to keep the replies on topic. You guys have a good time. I'm trying to not respond in kind to your provocative posts toward me. And if the first poster took my first post as an attack, I assure him that was not my intention.

Good grief buddy, you sure have spent a lot of time and effort to dispute something that basicly doesn't amount to a hill of beans. Who cares...I don't think there is one person on here that didn't understand what I was trying to say...But if it makes you feel better and will help you to sleep tonight by rambling on about some dumb little technicality, then by all means put yourself a little crown on and declare yourself the king...........Sheesh!!!!:eyeroll:



Here's a little trophy to go with it.:1:


Now, you happy?

[tomcat4life]

A Nightmare on Elm Street - CHECK
Dorthy/Wizard Of Oz - CHECK
29th Street - CHECK


Thanks Ashland....your stadium location is very popular in our modern culture.

That's pretty good there pulp. Now if you hit Blackburn ave you have Putnam stadium completely surrounded.

[Pulp Fiction]

That's pretty good there pulp. Now if you hit Blackburn ave you have Putnam stadium completely surrounded.

[Image: http://www.footballcrests.com/images/cre...ted-fc.jpg]


Best I could find, lol........

[armyfootball#1]

Can anyone tell me why JC coach called time out with 2 seconds left in the half when up 32 points against Rowan. Also why did he have his kicker kick a field goal on 1st down. Then called a timeout to chew out a ref. for making a bad inference call again while up by 32 points. It was a bad call though. But didn't think there was a need to call a time out just to chew out the ref. LOL

[WideRight05]

You do that, Wide. Be sure to come to Paintsville for the regional final game between JC and Highlands. :hilarious:

That's right, we played Cov Cath at home last year...so I guess we will get to put a running clock on JC on our own field instead. Just when I was hoping we would be able to humiliate them on their own field. :biglmao:

[Pulp Fiction]

[Image: http://storage2.ihigh.com/users/73/photos/12106.jpg]

[Image: http://img.groundspeak.com/waymarking/di...139f08.jpg]

[Image: http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6060/62907...3021_b.jpg]

[Image: http://www.walkerfressola.com/media/putn..._entry.jpg]

[Image: http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/biqFqbN7TUw/maxresdefault.jpg]

[Pulp Fiction]

That's right, we played Cov Cath at home last year...so I guess we will get to put a running clock on JC on our own field instead. Just when I was hoping we would be able to humiliate them on their own field. :biglmao:

:baldbull:


Bring it on!!!!!!! :redboxer:

[honestjchsfan]

I agree that football was rare among county school systems back then. Schools like Letcher County Central and Harlan County have had an easier time building football programs than schools like Johnson Central did because their consolidation came after most county schools already fielded their own teams. They also saw the benefit of hiring good coaches and giving them time to build a program.

It took Johnson County's administration a long time to develop the patience it takes to build a strong football program. It was probably a good thing that Steve Trimble came along when he did. As you know, Steve played for JC in the early years of the program, and later struggled as a JC coach himself. I think that experience gave him a good perspective of what JC had done wrong with its program over the years. If Bill Musick had gone winless in his first season a few years earlier at JC, that season would probably have been his first and last. Steve stuck with him and Musick built the best feeder system in eastern Kentucky, IMO.

I totally disagree, Steve Trimble was a thorn in the side of JC football for many years! When Ronnie Wells was fired so Trimble could be coach it set back JCHS football 15 years! Wells was 2-1 in Apple Bowls. The 86 JC schedule that Wells played IMO is still the toughest ever in JC history. They played 3A State runner-up Belfry, beat Ashland, lost a close game to a district Champ Clay CO who lost to Belfry 7-6 in the playoffs (Clay had a ALL- State QB who's name slips my mind) , throw in 85' class 1A runner up Paintsville lead by Joey Coach and the 86' class 1A runner-up Cumberland lead by Fred Maggard, throw in good Dudley Hilton coached Breathitt Co team and a Ivan McClone Coached Russell team, then top it all off with Archbishop Alter of Ohio team who's option QB was former Steeler WR Jeff Graham. Wells had some bad luck, his last year at JC, he played a Whitesburg team at JC that had a LB (who's name also slips my mind) but this LB was a wrecking ball and 7 or 8 JC starters were lost for most of the season. I later found out that Whitesburg LB went on to Morehead and later played 4 or 5 seasons in the NFL. A coach doesn't play a schedule like unless he thinks he has a pretty good team. FYI Steve Trimble didn't hire Musick. All Trimble did was lose a Bunch of games as coach, and it didn't take a lot of brains to hire Matney!

[MtnHSFootballFan]

Nor was it my intent to start an argument. Like you, Bob and I were trying to provide some history of Johnson Central's football program. I attended games between Lynch, Elkhorn City, Paintsville, Pikeville, and some of the other schools that you mentioned in the early 70s, and I am sure that Bob did too. I don't remember watching Millard, Virgie, Dorton, Johns Creek, Mullins, Phelps, and other Pike County schools' football teams play during that time, but that could simply be because they were not on either Johnson Central's or Paintsville's schedule during that period.

Thank you. This may be slightly off the topic but while I was thinking about old schools I thought about this bit of history and looked it up. Did you know that Wilbur Jamerson ("Shorty"), Wheelwright's coach for many years scored UK's only 2 touchdowns in the 1951 Sugar Bowl? They beat Oklahoma 13-7 stopping their 32 game winning streak. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1951_Sugar_Bowl http://hendersonkyhistory.com/SJamerson.htm Trivia, I guess but interesting. He married a gal from Wheelwright and came there to coach. Now back to the thread topic. And no, I'm not old enough to have attended that game. I just found out about it when I read his obituary awhile back.

[tomcat4life]

Good pics from pulp fiction.
I know JC travels well, so just a word of advice. Get there early. Parking is at an all time low. The alley way between the stadium and the school,where the busses usually park, and the parking lot on the back side of the school is closed due construction on Verity. The parking lot on the home side will fill up quick

[Pulp Fiction]

Good pics from pulp fiction.
I know JC travels well, so just a word of advice. Get there early. Parking is at an all time low. The alley way between the stadium and the school,where the busses usually park, and the parking lot on the back side of the school is closed due construction on Verity. The parking lot on the home side will fill up quick

I think I'm gonna get there Wednesday evening.......

:Cheerlead

[Hoot Gibson]

I totally disagree, Steve Trimble was a thorn in the side of JC football for many years! When Ronnie Wells was fired so Trimble could be coach it set back JCHS football 15 years! Wells was 2-1 in Apple Bowls. The 86 JC schedule that Wells played IMO is still the toughest ever in JC history. They played 3A State runner-up Belfry, beat Ashland, lost a close game to a district Champ Clay CO who lost to Belfry 7-6 in the playoffs (Clay had a ALL- State QB who's name slips my mind) , throw in 85' class 1A runner up Paintsville lead by Joey Coach and the 86' class 1A runner-up Cumberland lead by Fred Maggard, throw in good Dudley Hilton coached Breathitt Co team and a Ivan McClone Coached Russell team, then top it all off with Archbishop Alter of Ohio team who's option QB was former Steeler WR Jeff Graham. Wells had some bad luck, his last year at JC, he played a Whitesburg team at JC that had a LB (who's name also slips my mind) but this LB was a wrecking ball and 7 or 8 JC starters were lost for most of the season. I later found out that Whitesburg LB went on to Morehead and later played 4 or 5 seasons in the NFL. A coach doesn't play a schedule like unless he thinks he has a pretty good team. FYI Steve Trimble didn't hire Musick. All Trimble did was lose a Bunch of games as coach, and it didn't take a lot of brains to hire Matney!

I agree with you about Steve Trimble's coaching career. I thought he was principal when Musick was hired, but if not, I am sure that he was principal when the decision was made to keep Musick after a bad first season. I also know that Musick was coach longer than any of his predecessors and Steve Trimble was a big factor in him having such a long career there.

I had my own issues with the Johnson County administrators that were involved with the football program (and other programs) after Musick departed, but I also believe in giving credit where it is due. Steve Trimble never claimed to be a great football coach, but he played a positive role in building a strong program after he left coaching - notwithstanding the awful three seasons that came between Bill Musick's and Jim Matney's time there. Some of the things that happened during those seasons were beyond anybody's control and some were not but Musick and Matney put JC football on the map and Steve helped give them that opportunity.

[tomcat4life]

Come up early and go to tre hermanos for dinner. Best authentic Mexican food north of of the border.

[Hoot Gibson]

Thank you. This may be slightly off the topic but while I was thinking about old schools I thought about this bit of history and looked it up. Did you know that Wilbur Jamerson ("Shorty"), Wheelwright's coach for many years scored UK's only 2 touchdowns in the 1951 Sugar Bowl? They beat Oklahoma 13-7 stopping their 32 game winning streak. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1951_Sugar_Bowl http://hendersonkyhistory.com/SJamerson.htm Trivia, I guess but interesting. He married a gal from Wheelwright and came there to coach. Now back to the thread topic. And no, I'm not old enough to have attended that game. I just found out about it when I read his obituary awhile back.

That is news to me. The name Shorty Jamerson rang a bell and while I was researching his career, I ran across an article from 1957 that said he lost the first 32 games of his coaching career at Morehead State and Wheelwright (he was Wheelwright's first football coach) before finally getting a win as Glasgow's coach against Bowling Green. I guess Wheelwright talked him into returning soon afterwards. I had always assumed that he was from Wheelwright, but he actually played at Henderson before attending UK.

[Paula Dean]

Can anyone tell me why JC coach called time out with 2 seconds left in the half when up 32 points against Rowan. Also why did he have his kicker kick a field goal on 1st down. Then called a timeout to chew out a ref. for making a bad inference call again while up by 32 points. It was a bad call though. But didn't think there was a need to call a time out just to chew out the ref. LOL

A knee was taken following the time out so it didn't hurt anyone. Maybe the FG was kicked to work on another aspect of their game so they wouldn't run up the score worse than what it was? 45 yards out could be helpful down the road. That's you Mr. aRmyfootBall, if you were the coach you could've done it differently. In the mean time instead of eating sour grapes, stirring up trouble saying you don't have a preference in teams when you obviously have slighted JC in your first 3 posts, try my new dressing coming out this Thanksgiving and cover it with good ol' country gravy. It's good:Thumbs:

[honestjchsfan]

I agree with you about Steve Trimble's coaching career. I thought he was principal when Musick was hired, but if not, I am sure that he was principal when the decision was made to keep Musick after a bad first season. I also know that Musick was coach longer than any of his predecessors and Steve Trimble was a big factor in him having such a long career there.

I had my own issues with the Johnson County administrators that were involved with the football program (and other programs) after Musick departed, but I also believe in giving credit where it is due. Steve Trimble never claimed to be a great football coach, but he played a positive role in building a strong program after he left coaching - notwithstanding the awful three seasons that came between Bill Musick's and Jim Matney's time there. Some of the things that happened during those seasons were beyond anybody's control and some were not but Musick and Matney put JC football on the map and Steve helped give them that opportunity.

Back to topic, IMO JCHS needs to be ready to play this Friday night! IMO this is going to be a much better game than people expect. Ashland is playing at home and they have pride and will not lay down. JCHS needs to be on point and sharp or Ashland may shock them! Ashland fans may disagree but IMO this new head coach is better than the old one!

[tomcatfan722000]

Back to topic, IMO JCHS needs to be ready to play this Friday night! IMO this is going to be a much better game than people expect. Ashland is playing at home and they have pride and will not lay down. JCHS needs to be on point and sharp or Ashland may shock them! Ashland fans may disagree but IMO this new head coach is better than the old one!

Coach love is a fine coach. The cupboard just isn't as fool as when coach hart was there.

[brown_ind1977]

Here is a piece of history. Thanks from one of my great friends. Just think the pikeville game only went 3 quarter's.

[Bob Seger]

Here is a piece of history. Thanks from one of my great friends. Just think the pikeville game only went 3 quarter's.

Nice dig!!

[eagles2011]

Pikeville and pburg had us on speed dial . But now they run and hide . But back to the game it's hard to judge Ashland the last time I thought we would blow them out they beat us I think it was Jj senior year . They always play a good game againts us ,