[topnotch]

Mountain teams keep running it up the gut and the mountain team with the biggest strongest backs and the biggest linemen which is more than likely the same team just keep beating mountain teams over and over again, then they go north or west and the same thing happens about every year. Am I the only one out there that thinks we should re evaluate our approach on offense?

[3wishes]

Mountain teams keep running it up the gut and the mountain team with the biggest strongest backs and the biggest linemen which is more than likely the same team just keep beating mountain teams over and over again, then they go north or west and the same thing happens about every year. Am I the only one out there that thinks we should re evaluate our approach on offense?

Myth

See Belfry for example.
Many MTN schools have won or been there running the ball primarily.

[pjdoug]

What kind of offense does the teams with most State Championships run?

[pjdoug]

While early versions of the spread were sometimes quite limited, modern coaches like Joe Tiller (Purdue), Jerry Moore (Appalachian State), Mike Leach (Washington State), and Mark Helfrich (Oregon) and most recently Urban Meyer (Ohio State) have taken this run and shoot variant to a new level. High school coaches across the nation have adapted some version of this scheme with great success, notably Todd Dodge at Southlake Carroll High School in the Dallas-Fort Worth area (now at Marble Falls High School in Marble Falls, TX), Art Briles at Stephenville High School in Central Texas and the Houston Cougars (now at Baylor), Gus Malzahn at Springdale High School in Arkansas (later the offensive coordinator for the Arkansas Razorbacks and Auburn Tigers. He is now the head coach of Auburn Tigers[6]). Rush Propst using it won 5 state titles at Hoover High School in Alabama. Due to Propst's success many teams in Alabama run the spread. However, Propst's offense was created by consultant (now offensive coodinator at Cal-Berkeley) Tony Franklin. Legendary coach Dale Mueller, Highlands High School in Fort Thomas, Kentucky, has pioneered new aspects of the spread offense since 1995. In his 16 seasons as head coach, he has led Highlands to a record of 214 wins and 30 losses, and won 10 of their record 21 State Championships.

[Fly Like a Duck]

What kind of offense does the teams with most State Championships run?

Belfry- Flexbone based triple/belly. In 03 and 04 they were in the wishbone.

DeSales- Wing T based. Smoked and mirrored by getting in I Pro sets & also some spread, but the concepts stayed the same.

Mayfield- Full spread, probably 50/50. But, let's be honest…Mayfield could win state championships in 1A running whatever they want. More than half of their state championships came running the wishbone, and I have news for people….the teams they beat THEN, were a helluva lot better than the teams they have beaten in recent years.

Scott County- True Delaware Wing T to the core. For that matter, so was Meade County…Meade County was a Wing T/Wishbone mix and might have thrown for 900 yards on the season.

Collins- Spread. However, they run the crap out of it too using old school Power schemes. More accurately, Power Read schemes (option football) & for those that were at the finals, they rrrreeeeaaallllllyyyyy hurt Highlands when they lined up in Unbalanced Power I (Not the I, but Dudley/Larkey Power I of old and now).


Bowling Green- Multiple. See Mayfield.

Central in the past isn't that flashy either. They are a 21 personnel team (2 backs, 1 TE) as far as what they hang their hat on, and will spread it out some when they need…but, even then, it's not that flashy.

NewCath- Same as Central.

Here is the deal, people are infatuated and mesmerized by people lining up in the Shotgun and spreading the field, when in fact they run the same schemes that have been ran since the beginning of time. It's just window dressing. That's it.

Oldschool football just isn't as "sexy". That's it.

All approaches work. The difference is players. Heck, two of the best programs in Georgia, Cambden County and Lowndes County are old school Wing-T teams. One of, if not the best team in Florida over the last 7-8 years, Apopka High School (8A program. Biggest class in FLA) is a Single Wing team (the offense that football was built around, back in the days of Pop Warner, Knute Rockne, etc).

Players everybody. PLAYERS. That's what makes any and all offenses go.

I find it amusing that when you see old school teams get beat, the first thing that comes out of people's mouths is "Lack of passing game, they need to spread it out." But when spread teams get beat…they just get beat, it's almost as if, "Oh, they are spread. Trying to do what we all see on TV, so it's ok." You never here, "They should've have tightened it up some, slowed the pace down and ran it more. There lack of run game hurt them." Never hear it. (granted, most of your successful Spread teams are those that make it a point to establish the run. And, one of the biggest misconceptions about the Spread is that teams don't run it, when they clearly do).

When Auburn won the title in 2010, they were a spread Wing T team. All those runs that Cam Newton had? Power and Bucksweep from the spread. This year, they were more zone read (option schemed) team. I heard Gus Malzahn talk at a clinic some years back, and he talked about his Wing T background and that all he is running at Auburn is just that, just from the shotgun and a lot smoke and mirrors. He talked about how everybody down there thinks he is running some wild, new looking offense…but, that all it was is Wing T based. He made a comment of something like, "But I couldn't tell everybody we were running the Wing T. Could you imagine the outlast there would have been at the first sign of failure? So I figured people like hearing "spread", so I just tell everybody it's the spread." He told a roomful of about about 100 coaches this.

People also need to come to grips with expectations. There are a reason some schools have never won state championships and likely never will. It goes waaaaaaayyy beyond the style of play they use.

[Full deck]

I always thought south was best when they threw the ball everywhere, lots of athletes and IMO need to throw the ball like they used to.

[Fly Like a Duck]

I agree……but, having a Tim Couch record breaking QB helps. I've seen a lot of QB's over the years, and that kid was as good of a HS QB as I've ever seen. 5'10 w/ heels on and could make every throw there was…he could also move.

Didn't too to swift after him, though when they continued with that approach.

[pjdoug]

Belfry- Flexbone based triple/belly. In 03 and 04 they were in the wishbone.

DeSales- Wing T based. Smoked and mirrored by getting in I Pro sets & also some spread, but the concepts stayed the same.

Mayfield- Full spread, probably 50/50. But, let's be honest…Mayfield could win state championships in 1A running whatever they want. More than half of their state championships came running the wishbone, and I have news for people….the teams they beat THEN, were a helluva lot better than the teams they have beaten in recent years.

Scott County- True Delaware Wing T to the core. For that matter, so was Meade County…Meade County was a Wing T/Wishbone mix and might have thrown for 900 yards on the season.

Collins- Spread. However, they run the crap out of it too using old school Power schemes. More accurately, Power Read schemes (option football) & for those that were at the finals, they rrrreeeeaaallllllyyyyy hurt Highlands when they lined up in Unbalanced Power I (Not the I, but Dudley/Larkey Power I of old and now).


Bowling Green- Multiple. See Mayfield.

Central in the past isn't that flashy either. They are a 21 personnel team (2 backs, 1 TE) as far as what they hang their hat on, and will spread it out some when they need…but, even then, it's not that flashy.

NewCath- Same as Central.

Here is the deal, people are infatuated and mesmerized by people lining up in the Shotgun and spreading the field, when in fact they run the same schemes that have been ran since the beginning of time. It's just window dressing. That's it.

Oldschool football just isn't as "sexy". That's it.

All approaches work. The difference is players. Heck, two of the best programs in Georgia, Cambden County and Lowndes County are old school Wing-T teams. One of, if not the best team in Florida over the last 7-8 years, Apopka High School (8A program. Biggest class in FLA) is a Single Wing team (the offense that football was built around, back in the days of Pop Warner, Knute Rockne, etc).

Players everybody. PLAYERS. That's what makes any and all offenses go.

I find it amusing that when you see old school teams get beat, the first thing that comes out of people's mouths is "Lack of passing game, they need to spread it out." But when spread teams get beat…they just get beat, it's almost as if, "Oh, they are spread. Trying to do what we all see on TV, so it's ok." You never here, "They should've have tightened it up some, slowed the pace down and ran it more. There lack of run game hurt them." Never hear it. (granted, most of your successful Spread teams are those that make it a point to establish the run. And, one of the biggest misconceptions about the Spread is that teams don't run it, when they clearly do).

When Auburn won the title in 2010, they were a spread Wing T team. All those runs that Cam Newton had? Power and Bucksweep from the spread. This year, they were more zone read (option schemed) team. I heard Gus Malzahn talk at a clinic some years back, and he talked about his Wing T background and that all he is running at Auburn is just that, just from the shotgun and a lot smoke and mirrors. He talked about how everybody down there thinks he is running some wild, new looking offense…but, that all it was is Wing T based. He made a comment of something like, "But I couldn't tell everybody we were running the Wing T. Could you imagine the outlast there would have been at the first sign of failure? So I figured people like hearing "spread", so I just tell everybody it's the spread." He told a roomful of about about 100 coaches this.

People also need to come to grips with expectations. There are a reason some schools have never won state championships and likely never will. It goes waaaaaaayyy beyond the style of play they use.

I think it all comes down to good coaching,fundamentals and having a balanced offense.at least be a threat in the passing game. all the formations require a good quarterback. I love to watch the wishbone or triple option with a good smart quarterback than can run or throw

[pjdoug]

Belfry- Flexbone based triple/belly. In 03 and 04 they were in the wishbone.

DeSales- Wing T based. Smoked and mirrored by getting in I Pro sets & also some spread, but the concepts stayed the same.

Mayfield- Full spread, probably 50/50. But, let's be honest…Mayfield could win state championships in 1A running whatever they want. More than half of their state championships came running the wishbone, and I have news for people….the teams they beat THEN, were a helluva lot better than the teams they have beaten in recent years.

Scott County- True Delaware Wing T to the core. For that matter, so was Meade County…Meade County was a Wing T/Wishbone mix and might have thrown for 900 yards on the season.

Collins- Spread. However, they run the crap out of it too using old school Power schemes. More accurately, Power Read schemes (option football) & for those that were at the finals, they rrrreeeeaaallllllyyyyy hurt Highlands when they lined up in Unbalanced Power I (Not the I, but Dudley/Larkey Power I of old and now).


Bowling Green- Multiple. See Mayfield.

Central in the past isn't that flashy either. They are a 21 personnel team (2 backs, 1 TE) as far as what they hang their hat on, and will spread it out some when they need…but, even then, it's not that flashy.

NewCath- Same as Central.

Here is the deal, people are infatuated and mesmerized by people lining up in the Shotgun and spreading the field, when in fact they run the same schemes that have been ran since the beginning of time. It's just window dressing. That's it.

Oldschool football just isn't as "sexy". That's it.

All approaches work. The difference is players. Heck, two of the best programs in Georgia, Cambden County and Lowndes County are old school Wing-T teams. One of, if not the best team in Florida over the last 7-8 years, Apopka High School (8A program. Biggest class in FLA) is a Single Wing team (the offense that football was built around, back in the days of Pop Warner, Knute Rockne, etc).

Players everybody. PLAYERS. That's what makes any and all offenses go.

I find it amusing that when you see old school teams get beat, the first thing that comes out of people's mouths is "Lack of passing game, they need to spread it out." But when spread teams get beat…they just get beat, it's almost as if, "Oh, they are spread. Trying to do what we all see on TV, so it's ok." You never here, "They should've have tightened it up some, slowed the pace down and ran it more. There lack of run game hurt them." Never hear it. (granted, most of your successful Spread teams are those that make it a point to establish the run. And, one of the biggest misconceptions about the Spread is that teams don't run it, when they clearly do).

When Auburn won the title in 2010, they were a spread Wing T team. All those runs that Cam Newton had? Power and Bucksweep from the spread. This year, they were more zone read (option schemed) team. I heard Gus Malzahn talk at a clinic some years back, and he talked about his Wing T background and that all he is running at Auburn is just that, just from the shotgun and a lot smoke and mirrors. He talked about how everybody down there thinks he is running some wild, new looking offense…but, that all it was is Wing T based. He made a comment of something like, "But I couldn't tell everybody we were running the Wing T. Could you imagine the outlast there would have been at the first sign of failure? So I figured people like hearing "spread", so I just tell everybody it's the spread." He told a roomful of about about 100 coaches this.

People also need to come to grips with expectations. There are a reason some schools have never won state championships and likely never will. It goes waaaaaaayyy beyond the style of play they use.

I agree……but, having a Tim Couch record breaking QB helps. I've seen a lot of QB's over the years, and that kid was as good of a HS QB as I've ever seen. 5'10 w/ heels on and could make every throw there was…he could also move.

Didn't too to swift after him, though when they continued with that approach.

Couch was the best I've ever seen. I watched Whitley County play against him at Hyden and it was amazing what he was doing with a big linebacker hitting him hard nicker:

[TriCountySports]

Even the "spread" teams are running the ball down the other team's throats. Everyone wants to copy Oregon and Auburn because they're "fun." All they are doing is using formations and alignments to run power football.

[33 power]

David Mitchell would be a good choice he has done more with less than anyone in the area. He spent the last 2 years with Haddix at Perry Co who just coach the offense in the border bowl. Mitchell would bring fundamental's and with the athletes at SL would win rather quickly with community support.

[Fly Like a Duck]

Couch was the best I've ever seen. I watched Whitley County play against him at Hyden and it was amazing what he was doing with a big linebacker hitting him hard nicker:

Might it have had something to do with the fact that he was an LB type himself? lol 6'5 200+ QB's tend to be able to take those hits (or should I say DELIVER them) more than your prototypical HS QB's.

[Fly Like a Duck]

Even the "spread" teams are running the ball down the other team's throats. Everyone wants to copy Oregon and Auburn because they're "fun." All they are doing is using formations and alignments to run power football.

Exactly. You said it. Smoke and mirrors……then you have the Stanfords, Michigan State's and Alabama's who are those "boring" people who line up under center w/ TE's and do the same. :Thumbs:

[TriCountySports]

I've learned that no offense is considered boring when the team is winning.

[Paul Crewe]

Offense doesn't mean as much as coaching stability.

[ataclance]

Any favs for this opening?

[RunItUpTheGut]

Couch was the best I've ever seen. I watched Whitley County play against him at Hyden and it was amazing what he was doing with a big linebacker hitting him hard nicker:

Parks laid Couch out.

[RunItUpTheGut]

When Irwin was the coach at South, they used the Franklin system.
It was also the only couple of good years they had in the last decade +.


I don't think the spread offense is so great. I think it was only effective because coaches didn't know how to stop it, and teams with slow players designed to stop the run couldn't stop it. Now that teams know whats going on, spread teams aren't any more useful than a run team.
It took people by surprise when it first came on.

[Full deck]

When Irwin was the coach at South, they used the Franklin system.
It was also the only couple of good years they had in the last decade +.


I don't think the spread offense is so great. I think it was only effective because coaches didn't know how to stop it, and teams with slow players designed to stop the run couldn't stop it. Now that teams know whats going on, spread teams aren't any more useful than a run team.
It took people by surprise when it first came on.

The best years south ever had was with the spread, plus look at what Wayne co has done last 2years as well as Williamsburg. South has always been good at throwing the ball.

[walterwhite]

This should be a much better job with Steve Wright out of the picture. Should be much easier to get the athletes out to play football. The right hire and this program could be successful on a decent level.

[pjdoug]

Parks laid Couch out.

he sure did nicker:> i remember he took his head off lol and he got up wanting to fight but he was tough and still won.

[RunItUpTheGut]

he sure did nicker:> i remember he took his head off lol and he got up wanting to fight but he was tough and still won.

Back when Couch was in his second or third year with the Browns, I remember he did an interview, and these reporters said, "so whats the hardest hit you've taken so far, there are a lot of big guys in the NFL?"

His response was a kid from Whitley County lol...

[Belfry0304]

My thing about the spread offense and running the ball is that there's only so many forms of misdirection you can use. If you see a back coming to the left out of the shotgun, he's usually getting it or the QB is keeping. Whereas in Belfry's offense, a back motioning to the left really gives you no lead. He could get the ball on a sweep, but you can't overplay it because of our triple option and misdirection stuff. As a fan, I often sit and watch what "aspect" teams are going to try and take from us. A lot of teams have overplayed fullback, which is fine and dandy but when they're shooting A gaps and we're running toss sweeps and triple option pitches their linebackers are taken completely out. It really does help that Coach Haywood has seen so many defensive efforts and has a good idea what to do against each of them.

I'm sure good offensive approaches from the spread can do the same, but I like the under center tucked tight fullback approach because you can't get your eyes on the QB/FB/RBs to see what's going on. We have tried our offense from pistol before in scrimmages and the deception isn't as tricky, I believe it's because with all the space it's not hitting you "as fast"

I believe all these jobs in Laurel/Whitley/Pulaski and down that way are attractive jobs, so good luck to South Laurel in their search. Whatever system fits them fits them, just giving my take on the old spread/wishbone argument lol

[PRIDE101]

Just a prediction here, I look for South to make a better hire than Whitley for their Coaching position. I have heard some very good applications have been turned in.

[jlow]

Just a prediction here, I look for South to make a better hire than Whitley for their Coaching position. I have heard some very good applications have been turned in.

If they actually hire a coach, they will be one up on Whitley at this point.:flame:

[64SUR]

South laurel has a gold mine of football player... 64SUR inglepar

[RunItUpTheGut]

Just a prediction here, I look for South to make a better hire than Whitley for their Coaching position. I have heard some very good applications have been turned in.

Ive said it for a while on here now. It wouldn't surprise me to see Whitley make a really bad hire.

[fernpence15]

i hear the Jared Swearingen mentioned anybody else heard this also?:trolldad2:

[jumper1]

Yes on Moose.

[pay now]

Does he still live with his mommy and daddy??