[RF81]

Exactly. RF81 thinks a "theory" is fact until disproved. You just can't argue with that.:eyeroll:

It's not what I "think", its what the definition is genius. Go look it up, a scientific theory isn't a philosophical theory(just an idea). It is tested rigorously before it can even be considered theory in science, then accepted as fact until proven otherwise...kind of like gravity which is still and will always be a theory. I see you know nothing though and have a hard time comprehending.

I'd rather believe in something than nothing. To believe in nothing means life is worthless. That makes that individual worthless.



For you to make fun of and do a LMAO comment is pretty immature and completely disrespectful to all, not just those who believe in Christ, but to all that believe in any faith. And if that's the best "Argument" you can add to the debate, it obviously discounts your comments to be anything but ridiculous.

There are plenty of other things to believe in. I have dreams, I have kindness, I stand for what I believe in, it just doesn't happen to be a God.

But you did the same with my "faith" in evolution, what makes it any different? I gave a complete argument to my side, you just focused on that, which I did mock the Adam and Eve fable I'll admit. I find many things offensive, try living in a country/area/family that is very religious and have beliefs like mine. People don't care about others beliefs and how they are treated, until someone dishes it back out then they cry foul. - that last bit wasn't directed towards you, just a small rant in general.

Are these legends or can the be corroborated? Isn't Jesus the only individual to ever be proved to have existed? All of our religions have their own version of the bible, but Jesus was written about by those that were non-religious individuals of the time. Jesus did indeed exist and was never a "legend". Those who doubt his story in claiming his miracles did not happen or question the validity of what the Bible say's can debate that all they want, but Jesus was real. Not because Christians say so, but because others during the time have written and have said so.



So, can you dispute the story of Jesus, yes, most certainly you can and you will. But can you dispute that Jesus existed on earth, was a real man that was witnessed by thousands of non-christian and non-Jew's. Most certainly. Jesus did exist, not because I say so and because I beleive in his powers, but he is proven to me because of those who wrote about him DURING THE TIME THAT THEY WITNESSED HIM!

So if he has been proven to exist, no one that claims to be educated can say that it's a myth.............................................

They do not have to believe of his resurection, but the story of Jesus and his crucifi***ion are all true, proven in many Roman writings!

These are historically true, not as widespread as Jesus - this is because those were long before people were jotting down books. Jesus himself is believed to have existed, I myself believe he was, but as for the miracles and being the Son of God? No evidence. Jews, like you said, believe that...a lot do, i.e. go read Thomas Jeffersons Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth - he rewrote the New Testament and took out the "miracles". A number of our Founding Fathers weren't Christian, they also agreed with Jefferson(who was not a Christian).


There's one part I don't agree with and it's the....

"those who wrote about him DURING THE TIME THAT THEY WITNESSED HIM!"


Actually no one who wrote the Bible ever met Jesus, it was wrote after the ones who had, had been gone for awhile. It was passed down word, that's been translated many times, like all of the old testament that is much much older passed down word.



Here's my take on Jesus - I believed that historically, Jesus of Nazareth was indeed a real person, I believe that he may have been a teacher and may have been persecuted for what he taught. I believe that he was made a martyr by some and was believed that he was God's son, compile the older stories and the OT...then you have Christianity/ NT. I believe that many of the teachings accredited to him are great to live by, whether or not he was God's son is irrelevant to me, he's in the same category with me as Buddha whose teachings are great to live by also. Like I said, most like Jesus, Buddhists, Muslims, Jews etc.

Then you my friend do not believe, because it is "by faith alone" that we are instructed. To question means you do not entrust. That is you free-will, the free-will that he says we all have.

That is what I don't get. If you question, you're not a believer and will go to ****...yet we have free will? Really we don't according to God, I mean the mind capacity to but it's forbidden completely. You can't really think for yourself without fear of ****ation, I can't imagine living my life like that for someone that can't prove that...goes back to the Jefferson quote...


"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear."

[Wildcatk23]

It's not what I "think", its what the definition is genius. Go look it up, a scientific theory isn't a philosophical theory(just an idea). It is tested rigorously before it can even be considered theory in science, then accepted as fact until proven otherwise...kind of like gravity which is still and will always be a theory. I see you know nothing though and have a hard time comprehending.




There are plenty of other things to believe in. I have dreams, I have kindness, I stand for what I believe in, it just doesn't happen to be a God.

But you did the same with my "faith" in evolution, what makes it any different? I gave a complete argument to my side, you just focused on that, which I did mock the Adam and Eve fable I'll admit. I find many things offensive, try living in a country/area/family that is very religious and have beliefs like mine. People don't care about others beliefs and how they are treated, until someone dishes it back out then they cry foul. - that last bit wasn't directed towards you, just a small rant in general.




These are historically true, not as widespread as Jesus - this is because those were long before people were jotting down books. Jesus himself is believed to have existed, I myself believe he was, but as for the miracles and being the Son of God? No evidence. Jews, like you said, believe that...a lot do, i.e. go read Thomas Jeffersons Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth - he rewrote the New Testament and took out the "miracles". A number of our Founding Fathers weren't Christian, they also agreed with Jefferson(who was not a Christian).


There's one part I don't agree with and it's the....

"those who wrote about him DURING THE TIME THAT THEY WITNESSED HIM!"


Actually no one who wrote the Bible ever met Jesus, it was wrote after the ones who had, had been gone for awhile. It was passed down word, that's been translated many times, like all of the old testament that is much much older passed down word.



Here's my take on Jesus - I believed that historically, Jesus of Nazareth was indeed a real person, I believe that he may have been a teacher and may have been persecuted for what he taught. I believe that he was made a martyr by some and was believed that he was God's son, compile the older stories and the OT...then you have Christianity/ NT. I believe that many of the teachings accredited to him are great to live by, whether or not he was God's son is irrelevant to me, he's in the same category with me as Buddha whose teachings are great to live by also. Like I said, most like Jesus, Buddhists, Muslims, Jews etc.





That is what I don't get. If you question, you're not a believer and will go to ****...yet we have free will? Really we don't according to God, I mean the mind capacity to but it's forbidden completely. You can't really think for yourself without fear of ****ation, I can't imagine living my life like that for someone that can't prove that...goes back to the Jefferson quote...


"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear."

A very nice post, no name calling just what you believe, same for stardust, others tend to name call and get personal when they have nothing to say

[Deathstar 80]

Then you my friend do not believe, because it is "by faith alone" that we are instructed. To question means you do not entrust. That is you free-will, the free-will that he says we all have.

I know that some people would call it ignorance, but I encourage you Stardust to stay with your faith. I will call Jesus my savior no matter what because he has definitely shown me he's there.

Through this debate, it has been agreed that Jesus existed. Therefore, we are to debate on whether or not Jesus was the messiah. It's obvious that the nature of humans is to do evil deeds. Looking at ourselves, we know that we do evil deeds constantly. Therefore, this statement is true.

If Jesus then existed and if the nature of man is to do evil, then we should ask ourselves, "Did Jesus commit any evil deeds?". If Jesus did commit evil deeds, then he couldn't be God because God looks at evil deeds as an abomination. If Jesus didn't, then that would prove Jesus was God and the Bible is true. What does the Bible say then? It says Jesus didn't sin. If he did sin, then he wouldn't have made much attention in the first place and his disciples (who most of them died a martyr's death) would have stopped following Jesus as soon as trouble came because they knew that the messiah wouldn't sin.

[TheRealVille]

I will call Jesus my savior no matter what because he has definitely shown me he's there.

How?

[Stardust]

How?

Because he believes. Nothing more, nothing less. Needs no explanation for him. He owes nothing to you nor you to him. We all choose what we believe and owe no one an explanation as to why.

[Stardust]

A very nice post, no name calling just what you believe, same for stardust, others tend to name call and get personal when they have nothing to say

TY :Thumbs:

[TheRealVille]

Because he believes. Nothing more, nothing less. Needs no explanation for him. He owes nothing to you nor you to him. We all choose what we believe and owe no one an explanation as to why.

He said Jesus shows him definitely that he is there. I asked how. I think I asked him SD. I'm sure he is old enough to talk for himself.

[Stardust]

I know that some people would call it ignorance, but I encourage you Stardust to stay with your faith. I will call Jesus my savior no matter what because he has definitely shown me he's there.

Through this debate, it has been agreed that Jesus existed. Therefore, we are to debate on whether or not Jesus was the messiah. It's obvious that the nature of humans is to do evil deeds. Looking at ourselves, we know that we do evil deeds constantly. Therefore, this statement is true.

If Jesus then existed and if the nature of man is to do evil, then we should ask ourselves, "Did Jesus commit any evil deeds?". If Jesus did commit evil deeds, then he couldn't be God because God looks at evil deeds as an abomination. If Jesus didn't, then that would prove Jesus was God and the Bible is true. What does the Bible say then? It says Jesus didn't sin. If he did sin, then he wouldn't have made much attention in the first place and his disciples (who most of them died a martyr's death) would have stopped following Jesus as soon as trouble came because they knew that the messiah wouldn't sin.

Very nice post.

Jesus beat no one over the head to spread his message.

[RF81]

A very nice post, no name calling just what you believe, same for stardust, others tend to name call and get personal when they have nothing to say

I appreciate it. I think the whole discussion has went over pretty well, it's a touchy issue.

Very nice post.

Jesus beat no one over the head to spread his message.

You're exactly right, but most aren't that Christ-like. Ghandi said something like "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians, they are so unlike your Christ"....that's always said it best for non-believers or people from other faiths IMO.

[Deathstar 80]

You're exactly right, but most aren't that Christ-like. Ghandi said something like "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians, they are so unlike your Christ"....that's always said it best for non-believers or people from other faiths IMO.

Those who call themselves Christians and go against God's word are hypocrites. Sadly, they do exist today (Don't criticize them, they just need Jesus in their lives and to better understand God's law. Criticism will not help with that.). Don't make your mind on giving your life to God based on hypocrites. Look at what the Bible says and then make your mind.

By the way, if you mean that you've seen a Christian do a bad thing, we're all imperfect and make mistakes every once in a while. Dedicating your life to God means learning from your mistakes and not making them again (repenting).

To TheRealVille, I will answer your post as soon as I can. I have to go somewhere. Sorry.

[Stardust]

I appreciate it. I think the whole discussion has went over pretty well, it's a touchy issue.






You're exactly right, but most aren't that Christ-like. Ghandi said something like "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians, they are so unlike your Christ"....that's always said it best for non-believers or people from other faiths IMO.

Those who call themselves Christians and go against God's word are hypocrites. Sadly, they do exist today (Don't criticize them, they just need Jesus in their lives and to better understand God's law. Criticism will not help with that.). Don't make your mind on giving your life to God based on hypocrites. Look at what the Bible says and then make your mind.

By the way, if you mean that you've seen a Christian do a bad thing, we're all imperfect and make mistakes every once in a while. Dedicating your life to God means learning from your mistakes and not making them again (repenting).

To TheRealVille, I will answer your post as soon as I can. I have to go somewhere. Sorry.

Great replies guy's :Thumbs:

[Wildcatk23]

Those who call themselves Christians and go against God's word are hypocrites. Sadly, they do exist today (Don't criticize them, they just need Jesus in their lives and to better understand God's law. Criticism will not help with that.). Don't make your mind on giving your life to God based on hypocrites. Look at what the Bible says and then make your mind.

By the way, if you mean that you've seen a Christian do a bad thing, we're all imperfect and make mistakes every once in a while. Dedicating your life to God means learning from your mistakes and not making them again (repenting).

To TheRealVille, I will answer your post as soon as I can. I have to go somewhere. Sorry.

Or maybe think of a good story? im just playing i dont question your faith, im not big on this matter being it causes problems between me and my family and my girlfriends family, im considered the evil child thats going to ****, but yet i love my life. i tend not to put my faith in stuff that i cant see, rather stuff like my family, girlfriend, stuff in that area, i know i can count on them when im hanging by a cliff to pull me up. well maybe!

[Stardust]

Or maybe think of a good story? im just playing i dont question your faith, im not big on this matter being it causes problems between me and my family and my girlfriends family, im considered the evil child thats going to ****, but yet i love my life. i tend not to put my faith in stuff that i cant see, rather stuff like my family, girlfriend, stuff in that area, i know i can count on them when im hanging by a cliff to pull me up. well maybe!

I knew you were the evil one when I saw that you are a Packers fan......:biggrin: JK

[Wildcatk23]

I knew you were the evil one when I saw that you are a Packers fan......:biggrin: JK

Dont hold that against me!

[Stardust]

Dont hold that against me!

Dude, I ain't holden' nothing against you......That's a different thread......:biggrin:

:moon:

[Wildcatk23]

Dude, I ain't holden' nothing against you......That's a different thread......:biggrin:

:moon:

Yea but your the one cutting the big cheese around here

[Stardust]

^ lol

[RF81]

Those who call themselves Christians and go against God's word are hypocrites. Sadly, they do exist today (Don't criticize them, they just need Jesus in their lives and to better understand God's law. Criticism will not help with that.). Don't make your mind on giving your life to God based on hypocrites. Look at what the Bible says and then make your mind.

By the way, if you mean that you've seen a Christian do a bad thing, we're all imperfect and make mistakes every once in a while. Dedicating your life to God means learning from your mistakes and not making them again (repenting).

To TheRealVille, I will answer your post as soon as I can. I have to go somewhere. Sorry.

I' didn't make up my mind because of those fake-Christians, I just don't believe it altogether. I've met some great Christian people, but I've also met some "Better-than" Christians...I'm sure you know which ones I'm talking about.

[Wildcatk23]

House: "You talk to God, you're religious. God talks to you, you're psychotic.

Chase: "You're gonna talk to a patient?"
House: "God talks to him. It'd be arrogant of me to assume that I'm better than God."

House: "Isn't it interesting... religious behavior is so close to being crazy that we can't tell them apart'

Wilson: "And that's why religious belief annoys you. Because if the universe operates by abstract rules you can learn them, you can protect yourself. If a Supreme Being exists he can squash you any time he wants."
House: "He knows where I am."

[Mr.Kimball]

House: "You talk to God, you're religious. God talks to you, you're psychotic.

Chase: "You're gonna talk to a patient?"
House: "God talks to him. It'd be arrogant of me to assume that I'm better than God."

House: "Isn't it interesting... religious behavior is so close to being crazy that we can't tell them apart'

Wilson: "And that's why religious belief annoys you. Because if the universe operates by abstract rules you can learn them, you can protect yourself. If a Supreme Being exists he can squash you any time he wants."
House: "He knows where I am."

That make you feel better?

[Wildcatk23]

That make you feel better?

lol. just some quotes i heard in an episode of house, and yes i feel much better

[Mr.Kimball]

lol. just some quotes i heard in an episode of house, and yes i feel much better

Yeah......... well, I'm glad you got that major accomplishment out of your system..

[mrsportsfan]

First of all the bible says that the earth is round, not flat, even when scientists said it was flat the bible said it was round, God had men to write the bible under his direction, basically as secretaries. Isaiah 40:22 says: It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth. You can read the other few lines yourself.

Next somebody said that nobody who wrote the bible ever met Jesus, I believe that was their comment. Oh how wrong you are. The disciples, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, and Peter were all here and in Jesus's company and were writer's of the bible. They were able to give the accounts of what happened in their own words, but anything to be prophesied came from God's direction.

John wrote, John, John 1,2,3, and Revelation. Paul wrote,Hebrews Philemon, Titus, Timothy 1,2, 1 Thessalonians 1, 2, Colossians, Philippians,
Ephesians, Galatians, 1 Corinthians, 2 Corinthians, and Romans. Acts was wrote by Luke. Matthew, Mark, and John, all wrote their own books.
Jeremiah wrote Lamentations, and 1,2 Kings. There is some other small books I could give you but the other ones I'll say is that Moses wrote Job and he wrote the first five books. What might surprise you is that Moses finished the book of Job the same year he finished the book of Dueteronomy.

[TheRealVille]

First of all the bible says that the earth is round, not flat, even when scientists said it was flat the bible said it was round, God had men to write the bible under his direction, basically as secretaries. Isaiah 40:22 says: It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth. You can read the other few lines yourself.

Next somebody said that nobody who wrote the bible ever met Jesus, I believe that was their comment. Oh how wrong you are. The disciples, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, and Peter were all here and in Jesus's company and were writer's of the bible. They were able to give the accounts of what happened in their own words, but anything to be prophesied came from God's direction.

John wrote, John, John 1,2,3, and Revelation. Paul wrote,Hebrews Philemon, Titus, Timothy 1,2, 1 Thessalonians 1, 2, Colossians, Philippians,
Ephesians, Galatians, 1 Corinthians, 2 Corinthians, and Romans. Acts was wrote by Luke. Matthew, Mark, and John, all wrote their own books.
Jeremiah wrote Lamentations, and 1,2 Kings. There is some other small books I could give you but the other ones I'll say is that Moses wrote Job and he wrote the first five books. What might surprise you is that Moses finished the book of Job the same year he finished the book of Dueteronomy.

I find it odd that you know who wrote Job, when most Biblical scholars conclude that it is unknown. The dating of Job is also debatable. It is also unknown who wrote Hebrews.

[TheRealVille]

Jeremiah died in Egypt, not Babylon, so he appearantly couldn't have written the last chapter of 2Kings. It is really not known exactly who wrote 1&2 Kings.

[mrsportsfan]

As far as prophecies being fulfilled and you seeing them, there is the prophecy the world is watching right now, you can read Matthew 24:3-14, which talks about when Jesus disciples asked him what would be the signs that the end of the times were coming? It also talks about the conditions in the time of the end at 2 Timothy 1-6. All these things are on a grand scale right now and is getting worse.

[TheRealVille]

As far as prophecies being fulfilled and you seeing them, there is the prophecy the world is watching right now, you can read Matthew 24:3-14, which talks about when Jesus disciples asked him what would be the signs that the end of the times were coming? It also talks about the conditions in the time of the end at 2 Timothy 1-6. All these things are on a grand scale right now and is getting worse.

People in the 30-'s and 40's were saying the same thing. People have been saying the end is near for centuries. Paul thought the end would happen in his lifetime.

[mrsportsfan]

Jeremiah wrote this book in Judah and Egypt, the information I have says it was completed in

[mrsportsfan]

580 b.c.e. sorry, hit button too early

[mrsportsfan]

These things have happened, war, earthquakes, pestilence, children disobedient to parents, people turning away from God, but never on the grand scale that it is today. We still don't know how far we are off, just that we are getting to the point that it is getting so bad that the earth is being destroyed, heck, the US is going to the dogs, so it is definitely getting closer.