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03-17-2010, 07:08 PM
We already have a thread about the Top 10 BEST, how about the Top 5 WORST Presidents. Allow ourselves to look past party lines and actually pick the WORST.
AKA, if you are a die-hard Republican, don't AUTOMATICALLY pick 5 Democrats, and vice-versa.
Don't forget to justify your picks.
AKA, if you are a die-hard Republican, don't AUTOMATICALLY pick 5 Democrats, and vice-versa.
Don't forget to justify your picks.
03-17-2010, 08:47 PM
Note that I did find room to squeeze a Republican into my Worst of the Worst list, but I really, really wanted to find a place for President Jimmy. In the end, I decided that we survived the Carter years and the nation's very existence was never seriously threatened.
Carter's policies just made life very uncomfortable for those who were starting families, trying to buy a house, or buy a gallon of gasoline - or anything else. Carter was a horrible president but neither he nor any of the four gentlemen who I ranked as the second through fourth runners up to the bottom of the heap could give our current presidency a run for his money when it comes to inflicting lasting damage on the nation.
I also left William Henry Harrison (Whig) off my list because it would not be fair to include a man who caught a cold after delivering his long inaugural speech in the rain and then died only 32 days into his only term.
#40 - Warren Gamaliel Harding ®
#41 - Franklin Pierce (D)
#42 - Andrew Johnson (D)
#43 - James Buchanan, Jr. (D)
#44 - Barack Hussein Obama (a.k/a Barry Soetoro) (D)
Carter's policies just made life very uncomfortable for those who were starting families, trying to buy a house, or buy a gallon of gasoline - or anything else. Carter was a horrible president but neither he nor any of the four gentlemen who I ranked as the second through fourth runners up to the bottom of the heap could give our current presidency a run for his money when it comes to inflicting lasting damage on the nation.
I also left William Henry Harrison (Whig) off my list because it would not be fair to include a man who caught a cold after delivering his long inaugural speech in the rain and then died only 32 days into his only term.
#40 - Warren Gamaliel Harding ®
#41 - Franklin Pierce (D)
#42 - Andrew Johnson (D)
#43 - James Buchanan, Jr. (D)
#44 - Barack Hussein Obama (a.k/a Barry Soetoro) (D)
03-17-2010, 09:33 PM
HOOT, I need to clarify my original post. You can include 5 democrats/republicans if you want. I am just saying to justify your answers. Dont just list 5 people because they are dems, reps, democratic reps, or whigs.
You did fine, I am just saying this for others and also for you if you DO want to add Jimmy Peanut.
You did fine, I am just saying this for others and also for you if you DO want to add Jimmy Peanut.

03-17-2010, 09:57 PM
lwc Wrote:HOOT, I need to clarify my original post. You can include 5 democrats/republicans if you want. I am just saying to justify your answers. Dont just list 5 people because they are dems, reps, democratic reps, or whigs.I know but I don't think that even a person who would include Nixon in his list of Top 10 list would argue that Taft was a good president.
You did fine, I am just saying this for others and also for you if you DO want to add Jimmy Peanut.
Carter was the second worst president of my lifetime and I never thought that I would live to see a worse president but lightning has struck twice. I am sure that Carter is thankful that he also lived to see a worse president than himself. :biggrin:
03-26-2010, 02:54 PM
Hoot Gibson Wrote:#44 - Barack Hussein Obama (a.k/a Barry Soetoro) (D)Listen I know you hate him but come on. He hasn't been in office for even two years, none of his policies have really taken effect yet he is one of the top 5 worst??? But yet your fellow Republican, W ain't on there? Obama might not be the answer but even Superman would have a hard time getting us out the mess from the last 8 years.
03-26-2010, 07:49 PM
Amun-Ra Wrote:Listen I know you hate him but come on. He hasn't been in office for even two years, none of his policies have really taken effect yet he is one of the top 5 worst??? But yet your fellow Republican, W ain't on there? Obama might not be the answer but even Superman would have a hard time getting us out the mess from the last 8 years.First, I am not a Republican. I am a conservative/libertarian who, because the Democrat Party has been taken over by George Soros and his fellow socialists, usually votes for Republican candidates. If you spent more time reading my posts, then you would know that I have been critical of many of Bush's policies. I was not a big fan of GHW Bush either.
The unemployment rate in this country is pushing an official rate of 10 percent, which translates to real unemployment closer to 18 percent. One would expect fixing the economy would be our president's top priority. Do you believe that it has been his top priority. Employment in the public sector has risen under Obama as he rewards his union buddies with high paying federal jobs. Meanwhile, the employment rate has continued to decline in the private sector.
So what has been Obama's priorities? Nationalizing our health care system, including the upcoming hiring of more than 16,000 new IRS agents to force all Americans to buy insurance whether they want to or not - has been his top priority.
What's the next big thing for Obama, Pelosi, and Reid? Probably resurrecting the amnesty for illegal aliens bill. Democrats (with a few Republican idiots like Lindsey Graham) are pushing hard for cap and trade (i.e., "cap and tax") legislation, which will be yet another job killing law. Obama has already dispatched the EPA to regulate CO2 and impede coal mining operations despite Climategate and a whole series of other scandals involving the politicization of science and outright fraud by climate researchers around the world.
The changes that Obama has made and those that are near the top of his priority list are, to quote VP Joe Biden, "A big #%$@ing deal." If Obama had put this country on the path toward socialized medicine on his first day in office, the damage would have been just as great as if he had done so as his last official act as president at the end of a second term.
Teaming a socialist president with a Congress run by socialists and other left wing Democrats means that Obama can do more damage quicker than any president in my lifetime. His foreign policy blunders have alienated longtime allies while losing the respect of our enemies.
Obama knows that after November, his ability to damage our economy will be greatly reduced, which makes him even more dangerous. Time on the job means nothing when one's goal is to trash American traditions and values and tighter the federal government's control over our lives.
As for not including Bush in my Worst 5 list, please feel free to include him in your own list. If you think Obama is doing a bang up job, then you might want to stick him in your Top 10 list in another thread, but that will really kill your credibility here. :biggrin:
03-26-2010, 11:20 PM
Amun-Ra Wrote:Listen I know you hate him but come on. He hasn't been in office for even two years, none of his policies have really taken effect yet he is one of the top 5 worst??? But yet your fellow Republican, W ain't on there? Obama might not be the answer but even Superman would have a hard time getting us out the mess from the last 8 years.
Hey, it's easier to put Obama on the list. The repubs can make fun of his name and they have handy -- albeit inapt -- labels they can attach to him like marxist, socalist, foreign-born muslim, etc. It helps them wrap their minds around things they don't understand. Just smile and go along with it.
03-26-2010, 11:28 PM
Apparently liberals are a bit reluctant to post there list of Top 5 Worst Presidents. I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that Democrats dominate the bottom ranks according to most historians?
I know that it is easier to take cheap shots at somebody else's list, but I thought one of you might not be too lazy to post your own list before attacking mine. I cannot say that I am shocked, however...
I know that it is easier to take cheap shots at somebody else's list, but I thought one of you might not be too lazy to post your own list before attacking mine. I cannot say that I am shocked, however...
03-26-2010, 11:41 PM
Hoot Gibson Wrote:Apparently liberals are a bit reluctant to post there list of Top 5 Worst Presidents. I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that Democrats dominate the bottom ranks according to most historians?
I know that it is easier to take cheap shots at somebody else's list, but I thought one of you might not be too lazy to post your own list before attacking mine. I cannot say that I am shocked, however...
Come on. You know the reason people aren't posting is because it will just be more of the same. Repubs rank the dems at the bottom and vice versa. The only interesting thing about this thread was to watch who would do it first.
03-26-2010, 11:46 PM
BillyB Wrote:Come on. You know the reason people aren't posting is because it will just be more of the same. Repubs rank the dems at the bottom and vice versa. The only interesting thing about this thread was to watch who would do it first.Sorry, but I think that it is tied to a lack of knowledge mixed with a measure of laziness. It is kind of sad to see you lefties just take cheap shots at my list because you are too lazy to create your own.
03-26-2010, 11:54 PM
BillyB Wrote:Come on. You know the reason people aren't posting is because it will just be more of the same. Repubs rank the dems at the bottom and vice versa. The only interesting thing about this thread was to watch who would do it first.Hoot has regularly posted that he is not a Republican.
03-27-2010, 12:17 AM
Mr.Kimball Wrote:Hoot has regularly posted that he is not a Republican.Liberals tend to confuse themselves with libertarians because libertarians believe in allowing people to destroy their own lives with drugs as long as they do not harm other adults or share their stash with minors. Besides "libertarian" and "liberal" start with the same five letters, so they must be the same. Right? :biggrin:
Most of liberals do not understand that libertarians fiercely believe in economic and personal liberty. So, when they read my libertarian views liberty, economics, and property rights, their misunderstanding of political ideologies lead them to mistake me for a Republican.
It does not really matter to me whether liberals attack me as a libertarian or as a Republican because I understand that the attacks are just a manifestation of their collective ignorance. :popcorn:
03-27-2010, 10:28 PM
Hoot Gibson Wrote:Apparently liberals are a bit reluctant to post there list of Top 5 Worst Presidents. I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that Democrats dominate the bottom ranks according to most historians?I wasnt attacking you at all. I was just wondering how you can justify putting Obama on this list when he hasn't even finished one term yet and you dont put GW on there after he set America back 20 years. That was my point.
I know that it is easier to take cheap shots at somebody else's list, but I thought one of you might not be too lazy to post your own list before attacking mine. I cannot say that I am shocked, however...
03-27-2010, 10:59 PM
Amun-Ra Wrote:I wasnt attacking you at all. I was just wondering how you can justify putting Obama on this list when he hasn't even finished one term yet and you dont put GW on there after he set America back 20 years. That was my point.Post your own list if you think Bush belongs on it. Bush had his flaws but he did not disrespect our allies and appease our enemies. If you take time to look at projected budget deficits and compare them with those of Bush, then maybe you will understand how much damage Obama has done is such a short time.
If Obama does not change course soon, the US will lose its AAA bond rating before the end of his first term. If that happens, then you can expect inflation to take off soon afterward because it will become impossible to borrow money to cover our debts without paying a much higher interest rates on government bonds.
If you look at my list, you will notice that I did not include Jimmy Carter on it either. Before Obama, Carter was absolutely the worst president of my lifetime. Bush was not even close. I would have included Nixon and Ford on the list before Bush. Both were horrible presidents, IMO, but Ford did not serve a full term and he did nowhere as much damage as Obama has done.
Nixon did a lot of damage, but he (like Ford) was constrained by a Democrat-controlled House and Senate. Nixon governed like a liberal, and even imposed wage and price controls to try to slow inflation. Obama has no constraints on him with Pelosi and Reid setting the agenda in Congress and that is how he has done so much damage in such a short time.
Now, where is your list?
03-27-2010, 11:06 PM
Herbert Hoover - Stock Market Crash, Start of the Great Depression Hawley-Smoot Tariff
Millard Fillmore - Compromise of 1850, extended slavery
Warren G. Harding - Teapot Dome scandal, corruption
James Buchanan
George W. Bush. He bent the rules and broke laws. He spied on Americans, authorized torture, created the PATRIOT Act, devalued the American currency substantially on the international market, increased the national debt by 58%, and spent trillions of dollars on wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.
Millard Fillmore - Compromise of 1850, extended slavery
Warren G. Harding - Teapot Dome scandal, corruption
James Buchanan
George W. Bush. He bent the rules and broke laws. He spied on Americans, authorized torture, created the PATRIOT Act, devalued the American currency substantially on the international market, increased the national debt by 58%, and spent trillions of dollars on wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.
03-27-2010, 11:59 PM
Hoot Gibson Wrote:Now, where is your list?I don't have one. I do not know enough of past presidents' policies or their failures. Other than Hoover for starting the Depression.
But I can tell you GW would be on mine if I made one.
03-28-2010, 12:19 AM
Amun-Ra Wrote:I don't have one. I do not know enough of past presidents' policies or their failures. Other than Hoover for starting the Depression.You say you do not know enough about past presidents to put together a list but you are sure that Bush belongs on the list and you are confident that Obama does not belong on the list just the same. That is very interesting.
But I can tell you GW would be on mine if I made one.
[Image: http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/112xx/doc1123...graph1.png][Image: http://www.cbo.gov/publications/collecti...epage2.png]
If Republicans are not able to impose gridlock after the November elections, then the Misery Index, which was created in response to Carter's policy failures, will make a comeback. Unlike Greece and Portugal, there will be no country able or willing to bail us out of the economic mess that Obama is creating.
03-28-2010, 12:45 PM
Hoot Gibson Wrote:Post your own list if you think Bush belongs on it. Bush had his flaws but he did not disrespect our allies and appease our enemies. If you take time to look at projected budget deficits and compare them with those of Bush, then maybe you will understand how much damage Obama has done is such a short time.
If Obama does not change course soon, the US will lose its AAA bond rating before the end of his first term. If that happens, then you can expect inflation to take off soon afterward because it will become impossible to borrow money to cover our debts without paying a much higher interest rates on government bonds.
If you look at my list, you will notice that I did not include Jimmy Carter on it either. Before Obama, Carter was absolutely the worst president of my lifetime. Bush was not even close. I would have included Nixon and Ford on the list before Bush. Both were horrible presidents, IMO, but Ford did not serve a full term and he did nowhere as much damage as Obama has done.
Nixon did a lot of damage, but he (like Ford) was constrained by a Democrat-controlled House and Senate. Nixon governed like a liberal, and even imposed wage and price controls to try to slow inflation. Obama has no constraints on him with Pelosi and Reid setting the agenda in Congress and that is how he has done so much damage in such a short time.
Now, where is your list?
Only one comment I would say on Bush, on appeasing our enemies. He just wasted, all of the time he was in office spending the money on the wrong enemy, knowing it was nothing to do with Hussein. Clinton left office telling him Obama was a threat and needed to be dealt with. Hussein put a hit out on his father, and that was more important to him. Cheney ran that show, and you saw where that got us. Bush couldn't walk and chew bubble gum at the same time. Jeb was the only other Bush that needed to see the White House.
03-28-2010, 01:03 PM
mrsportsfan Wrote:Only one comment I would say on Bush, on appeasing our enemies. He just wasted, all of the time he was in office spending the money on the wrong enemy, knowing it was nothing to do with Hussein. Clinton left office telling him Obama was a threat and needed to be dealt with. Hussein put a hit out on his father, and that was more important to him. Cheney ran that show, and you saw where that got us. Bush couldn't walk and chew bubble gum at the same time. Jeb was the only other Bush that needed to see the White House.Hussein did far more than put out a hit on GHWB. He slaughtered tens of thousands of Iraqis and shoved them into mass graves. He paid bounties to the surviving family members of Palestinian suicide bombers who targeted Israeli and Western targets. And he refused to abide by the terms of surrender to which he agreed following the Gulf War, and the UN resolutions that required him to cooperate with weapons inspectors. Even top members in Iraq's government believed that it had WMD, because Hussein wanted Iran to believe it and because he did not trust his inner circle of advisers.
BTW, when Clinton left office, the Obama threat to this nation had not yet materialized. Clinton was not a bad president, especially when compared to Carter and Obama, but he new Bin Laden was a serious thread and he failed to take action to eliminate that threat when he had the opportunity. The 9/11 attacks took place after five years of planning.
Bush and Clinton were average presidents who tower above both Obama and Carter in terms of performance. Bush's biggest blunder was overreacting to the financial crisis and making it worse by agreeing to the bailout (which then Senator Obama and Senator McCain also supported).
03-28-2010, 01:06 PM
1. Herbert Hoover - his ineptness and lack of action led to the worst economic times in US history. He would spend billions in overseas aide to other countries but did not believe in spending any in his own country. He also used military troops(led by Douglas Macarthur) in attacking and beating military veterans protesting in front of the US capital wanting their bonuses.
2. Jimmy Carter - may be the most honest but also one of the most incompetent. Way over his head in handling the recession he inherited. His policies failed miserably and he could get along with neither Democrats or Republican congressmen.
3. Warren G. Harding - may be the most corrupt president of all time. Almost all of his cabinet members was corrupt and on the take. Death saved him from future impeachment over the Teapot-Dome scandal.
4. Andrew Johnson - just because he was impeached. I do not know many presidents who could have done a good job with the mess he had in inheriting the Reconstruction period of US history.
5. Richard M. Nixon - history has not been kind to him. He gets credited for getting us out of Vietnam. He actually was an ardent supporter of the war and escalated it to new levels with the bombing of Cambodia but do to public opinion and he wanting to get reelected he decided to pull out. He was a fervent anti-communist as vice president as he cowtailed to the drunk and psychologically imbalanced Joe McCarthy in the anti-communist witchhunts and then later on got in bed with the Chinese and Chairman Mao. History has shown that he may have been one of the most unscrupulous presidents in keeping his presidency and attacking his enemies.
2. Jimmy Carter - may be the most honest but also one of the most incompetent. Way over his head in handling the recession he inherited. His policies failed miserably and he could get along with neither Democrats or Republican congressmen.
3. Warren G. Harding - may be the most corrupt president of all time. Almost all of his cabinet members was corrupt and on the take. Death saved him from future impeachment over the Teapot-Dome scandal.
4. Andrew Johnson - just because he was impeached. I do not know many presidents who could have done a good job with the mess he had in inheriting the Reconstruction period of US history.
5. Richard M. Nixon - history has not been kind to him. He gets credited for getting us out of Vietnam. He actually was an ardent supporter of the war and escalated it to new levels with the bombing of Cambodia but do to public opinion and he wanting to get reelected he decided to pull out. He was a fervent anti-communist as vice president as he cowtailed to the drunk and psychologically imbalanced Joe McCarthy in the anti-communist witchhunts and then later on got in bed with the Chinese and Chairman Mao. History has shown that he may have been one of the most unscrupulous presidents in keeping his presidency and attacking his enemies.
03-28-2010, 01:20 PM
OrangenowBlue Wrote:1. Herbert Hoover - his ineptness and lack of action led to the worst economic times in US history. He would spend billions in overseas aide to other countries but did not believe in spending any in his own country. He also used military troops(led by Douglas Macarthur) in attacking and beating military veterans protesting in front of the US capital wanting their bonuses.Do What????[/COLOR][/SIZE]:yikes::yikes::yikes:
2. Jimmy Carter - may be the most honest but also one of the most incompetent. Way over his head in handling the recession he inherited. His policies failed miserably and he could get along with neither Democrats or Republican congressmen.
3. Warren G. Harding - may be the most corrupt president of all time. Almost all of his cabinet members was corrupt and on the take. Death saved him from future impeachment over the Teapot-Dome scandal.
4. Andrew Johnson - just because he was impeached. I do not know many presidents who could have done a good job with the mess he had in inheriting the Reconstruction period of US history.
5. Richard M. Nixon - history has not been kind to him. He gets credited for getting us out of Vietnam. He actually was an ardent supporter of the war and escalated it to new levels with the bombing of Cambodia but do to public opinion and he wanting to get reelected he decided to pull out. He was a fervent anti-communist as vice president as he cowtailed to the drunk and psychologically imbalanced Joe McCarthy in the anti-communist witchhunts and then later on got in bed with the Chinese and Chairman Mao. History has shown that he may have been one of the most unscrupulous presidents in keeping his presidency and attacking his enemies[SIZE="6"][COLOR="red"].
03-28-2010, 01:23 PM
mrsportsfan Wrote:Only one comment I would say on Bush, on appeasing our enemies. He just wasted, all of the time he was in office spending the money on the wrong enemy, knowing it was nothing to do with Hussein. Clinton left office telling him Obama was a threat and needed to be dealt with. Hussein put a hit out on his father, and that was more important to him. Cheney ran that show, and you saw where that got us. Bush couldn't walk and chew bubble gum at the same time. Jeb was the only other Bush that needed to see the White House.I agree OBAMA is a threat and he does need to be dealt with. He needs to be gotten rid of and rid of now!!!!
I'm sure you meant Osama Bin Laden.:biggrin:
03-28-2010, 01:30 PM
mrsportsfan Wrote:Only one comment I would say on Bush, on appeasing our enemies. He just wasted, all of the time he was in office spending the money on the wrong enemy, knowing it was nothing to do with Hussein. Clinton left office telling him Obama was a threat and needed to be dealt with. Hussein put a hit out on his father, and that was more important to him. Cheney ran that show, and you saw where that got us. Bush couldn't walk and chew bubble gum at the same time. Jeb was the only other Bush that needed to see the White House.
By the way, Clinton had the chance to take care of Bin Laden himself and wouldn't carry through with it.
03-28-2010, 03:24 PM
Hoot Gibson Wrote:Hussein did far more than put out a hit on GHWB. He slaughtered tens of thousands of Iraqis and shoved them into mass graves. He paid bounties to the surviving family members of Palestinian suicide bombers who targeted Israeli and Western targets. And he refused to abide by the terms of surrender to which he agreed following the Gulf War, and the UN resolutions that required him to cooperate with weapons inspectors. Even top members in Iraq's government believed that it had WMD, because Hussein wanted Iran to believe it and because he did not trust his inner circle of advisers.
BTW, when Clinton left office, the Obama threat to this nation had not yet materialized. Clinton was not a bad president, especially when compared to Carter and Obama, but he new Bin Laden was a serious thread and he failed to take action to eliminate that threat when he had the opportunity. The 9/11 attacks took place after five years of planning.
Bush and Clinton were average presidents who tower above both Obama and Carter in terms of performance. Bush's biggest blunder was overreacting to the financial crisis and making it worse by agreeing to the bailout (which then Senator Obama and Senator McCain also supported).
Ha!! HA!! These names are running together. He told him Bin Laden was a major threat and needed to be terminated now. Bush dropped the ball, and didn't pursue him. That is what I meant to say. Obama is another story, one all his own.
03-28-2010, 03:28 PM
mrsportsfan Wrote:Ha!! HA!! These names are running together. He told him Bin Laden was a major threat and needed to be terminated now. Bush dropped the ball, and didn't pursue him. That is what I meant to say. Obama is another story, one all his own.
It's the other way around.Clinton had him in the cross-hairs and wouldn't pull the trigger.
03-28-2010, 08:55 PM
Uncle Fester Wrote:Herbert Hoover - Stock Market Crash, Start of the Great Depression Hawley-Smoot Tariff
Millard Fillmore - Compromise of 1850, extended slavery
Warren G. Harding - Teapot Dome scandal, corruption
James Buchanan
George W. Bush. He bent the rules and broke laws. He spied on Americans, authorized torture, created the PATRIOT Act, devalued the American currency substantially on the international market, increased the national debt by 58%, and spent trillions of dollars on wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.
No - It was not torture until B. Hussein's bunch changed the definition of torture. Anyone can be accused of breaking the law if you change the law after-the-fact. The Patriot Act was widely supported by democrats and Republicans at the time it was passed in congress. By the way, B. Hussein requested an extension of various parts of the Patriot Act during 2009. As for Iraq and Afghanistan, I give Obama 'credit' for continuing the Bush Policies. However, he should not be trying to take credit for the huge success of the Iraq policies prior to his taking office. As they say, hind-sight is 20/20. It is a lot easier being a back-seat driver than it is driving the car, particularly when the car is the 'free world.' B. Hussein has found that out in a hurry and why he has continued the successful Bush policies.
03-28-2010, 11:26 PM
Hoot Gibson Wrote:You say you do not know enough about past presidents to put together a list but you are sure that Bush belongs on the list and you are confident that Obama does not belong on the list just the same. That is very interesting.When Bush first took office 9/11 happened. The whole country was giving him support. That was in his first year in office. Look at what happend the last seven.
I am not going to jump and say Obama is horrible when his first term isnt over. When his term is over he may be in fact one of our worst but right now I cant say that.
03-29-2010, 12:37 AM
Amun-Ra Wrote:When Bush first took office 9/11 happened. The whole country was giving him support. That was in his first year in office. Look at what happend the last seven.I understand what you are saying, but the unemployment rate was near full employment for most of Bush's eight years and the deficit never approached the ones that Obama has already posted, nor did they approach Obama's projected deficits for the next 10 years.
I am not going to jump and say Obama is horrible when his first term isnt over. When his term is over he may be in fact one of our worst but right now I cant say that.
If you want to take a wait and see approach to Obama's job destroying policies, that is fine, but there are many historical parallels to the policies that Obama is pursuing and he is laying the groundwork for a collapse of our economy.
More union employees now work in government jobs than private jobs and the average federal salary far exceeds those in the private sector. Private salaries and the number of jobs in the private sector have dropped since Obama took power and the number of government jobs has continued to increase. That is a recipe for disaster that will not necessarily take four years to materialize.
IMO, there are ample reasons to put Obama at the bottom of the list of worst presidents and it is my list. :biggrin:
I do not even believe that Obama has any real competition among US presidents for the bottom of the heap position. I know that no modern US president has done so much damage so fast. Democrats believe that FDR had the magic formula for ensuring single party control of Congress for decades but they are playing with fire and I would not trust Obama, Pelosi, or Reid with a book of matches.
03-29-2010, 01:35 AM
Hoot Gibson Wrote:I understand what you are saying, but the unemployment rate was near full employment for most of Bush's eight years and the deficit never approached the ones that Obama has already posted, nor did they approach Obama's projected deficits for the next 10 years.
If you want to take a wait and see approach to Obama's job destroying policies, that is fine, but there are many historical parallels to the policies that Obama is pursuing and he is laying the groundwork for a collapse of our economy.
More union employees now work in government jobs than private jobs and the average federal salary far exceeds those in the private sector. Private salaries and the number of jobs in the private sector have dropped since Obama took power and the number of government jobs has continued to increase. That is a recipe for disaster that will not necessarily take four years to materialize.
IMO, there are ample reasons to put Obama at the bottom of the list of worst presidents and it is my list. :biggrin:
I do not even believe that Obama has any real competition among US presidents for the bottom of the heap position. I know that no modern US president has done so much damage so fast. Democrats believe that FDR had the magic formula for ensuring single party control of Congress for decades but they are playing with fire and I would not trust Obama, Pelosi, or Reid with a book of matches.
I agree with about 90% of what you are saying. I do not believe FDR had the same thing in mind when he developed those programs. The country was in dire straits. His programs were basically work related with government paying individuals to build roads, bridges, lakes etc. I do not believe that he intended for the government to borrow money from social security. I work in state government and our salaries have basically stayed the same for 5 years with the exception of a 1% cost of living raise. We basically do not have any unions. You have employee associations and the attempt to unionize, but to me it is a waste of time. They have been trying for years but has failed to do so as they wield very little power in state government. Teachers have a more powerful organization in KEA. Our salaries have not dropped but the number of employees has so our workload has doubled. I do agree that salaries and jobs has increased on the federal level as I am amazed at what people make who work for the social security administration and they do not have the educational requirements that we have in state government(as far as our agency). I am just thankful I have a job and I have great sympathy for anyone who has lost theirs.
03-29-2010, 02:16 AM
OrangenowBlue Wrote:I agree with about 90% of what you are saying. I do not believe FDR had the same thing in mind when he developed those programs. The country was in dire straits. His programs were basically work related with government paying individuals to build roads, bridges, lakes etc. I do not believe that he intended for the government to borrow money from social security. I work in state government and our salaries have basically stayed the same for 5 years with the exception of a 1% cost of living raise. We basically do not have any unions. You have employee associations and the attempt to unionize, but to me it is a waste of time. They have been trying for years but has failed to do so as they wield very little power in state government. Teachers have a more powerful organization in KEA. Our salaries have not dropped but the number of employees has so our workload has doubled. I do agree that salaries and jobs has increased on the federal level as I am amazed at what people make who work for the social security administration and they do not have the educational requirements that we have in state government(as far as our agency). I am just thankful I have a job and I have great sympathy for anyone who has lost theirs.I don't believe that FDR had the same goal as Obama either. What I do believe is that Obama, Pelosi, Reid, et al. believe that all that is needed for the Democrats to control Congress for decades is to spend trillions of dollars on government programs. They are very loosely following FDR's strategy but their goal is not to make our lives better. As you said, most of FDR's spending went toward building our infrastructure, which did provide many people with worthwhile temporary employment. That is not true of Obama's spending.
I also have great sympathy for people who have lost their jobs in this recession. I lost mine as the company that I worked for went under after 27 years in business.
Fortunately, I was able to land a one-year contract in Mississippi but now the contract is about to end. Several of my former coworkers are still unemployed. I might have still been unemployed too if I had not been willing to relocate.
I have a phone interview tomorrow for a permanent position in Florida but the competition in my field is pretty stiff. The situation has been made worse by the federal government's H1-B visa program that allows foreign nationals into the country to take technical jobs that Americans would otherwise fill. (This problem is not new with the Obama administration but it would be nice if he would put an end to it or reduce its scope.) The H1-B program has the effect of keeping downward pressure on salaries by creating a surplus of job candidates.
I do not think that people who have not had to look for a new job in the current economy understand just how bad this economy is. My guess is that the number of contract jobs may increase as employers wait to see how much of Obamacare is going to be ruled unconstitutional and avoid committing to benefits for new full time employees.
That would make it easier for people like me to remain employed in the short term but it would not be good for the economy as a whole.
Obama's expansion of the federal government is prolonging the "jobless recovery" and it is threatening the nation's financial solvency.
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