[Deathstar 80]

I'm surprised that this wasn't made into a thread yet. From what I've heard, both President Abbas and Prime Minister Netanyahu gave speeches during a UN meeting. President Abbas was given a standing ovation for his speech.

[RunItUpTheGut]

I dont think it will ever happen.
The U.S. pretty much has to approve it and we wont piss Isreal off.
however, it might not be a bad idea considering it would help our image in the middle east and bring some allies along the way.
IMO, its a lose-lose for the U.S.

[Deathstar 80]

The decision on whether or not to determine Palestine statehood will be made in about two weeks. Here's the link:

http://video.foxnews.com/v/1180161483001...-statehood

You can find a lot more stories about this. I think Fox News, CNN, and MSNBC are all covering this.

I personally stand with Israel. If Israel loses any more land, they can easily be in danger by their surrounding enemies.

[Deathstar 80]

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/a-new-pa...-refugees/

[vundy33]

Hell, let them have their own country, they deserve it by now. Heck, most Israeli's are sick of the discussion and just want a safe Palestine and Israel.

I support a Palestinian state, especially with their current leader. But not one with any Hamas involvement.

[TheRealVille]

Hell, let them have their own country, they deserve it by now. Heck, most Israeli's are sick of the discussion and just want a safe Palestine and Israel.

I support a Palestinian state, especially with their current leader. But not one with any Hamas involvement.

Yea, what he said. :Thumbs:

[RunItUpTheGut]

Im definitely with ya on that one vundy.
The only thing that worries me is that is may greatly weaken national security for Isreal

[Deathstar 80]

Im definitely with ya on that one vundy.
The only thing that worries me is that is may greatly weaken national security for Isreal

This is exactly why I firmly stand with Israel. Israel is being set up. Here's a link that shows all of the wars that Israel has been in since it was created in 1948:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_wars

Israel has always been hated by everyone surrounding them. Some people think this was actually involved with bible prophecy in Psalm 83:2-8. As a matter of fact, this could lead to the "War of Gog and Magog" bible prophecy from Ezekiel 38-39. People are trying to make Israel look like "oppressors", when it's actually Israel who is attacked over and over again.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Benjamin Netanyahu absolutely doesn't want the Palestinians to have their own state. He gave a speech at the United Nations asking them not to support a Palestinian State because it would threaten Israel's national security.

Please pray for and stand with Israel. As I've said over and over, they're being set up.

[vundy33]

Oh, I stand with Israel. But they have their revenge for all that time until 1948 on Muslims by now, it's now time to recognize Palestine, especially with the new government that is much more willing to sit down a discuss.

And also, I don't think there's much of a connection between the world recognition of a Palestinian state and Israel's security. Certain sects of Islam will continue to blow up buses every now and then, and Hamas will continue to fire a few rockets over the border and kill some sheep. Israel will continue to retaliate with a 100 pound fist to the face of those people.

[Hoot Gibson]

If Arab Muslims want the Palestinians to have their own state, then they should carve one from their own land. Israel has surrendered enough of its territory already. Arab Muslim nations attempted to destroy Israel and lost their gamble. If anybody owes the Palestinians a state, it is Israel's Muslim neighbors.

If Abbas truly wanted a Palestinian state that would peacefully coexist with Israel, he would have no political power and would probably already be dead because peaceful coexistence is not a politically popular idea among Arab Muslims.

For Israel to surrender more of its lands to people committed to its destruction would be nuts. We would not do it and it is unreasonable to pressure Israelis to allow Palestinians to move their rocket launchers closer to its major cities.

[vundy33]

I've not seen much U.S. pressuring of Israeli, but if it is going on, it needs to stop. We would tell someone that was pressuring us to do that to STFU, to be honest, and we all know that.

But, I have seen and heard many Israeli's saying just give them their state, they don't care anymore. This coming from the younger, 18-30 generation of Israeli's. The older, of course, are much different and see the negatives of this, like Hoot. Which is a good thing, I think.

[Deathstar 80]

Oh, I stand with Israel. But they have their revenge for all that time until 1948 on Muslims by now, it's now time to recognize Palestine, especially with the new government that is much more willing to sit down a discuss.

And also, I don't think there's much of a connection between the world recognition of a Palestinian state and Israel's security. Certain sects of Islam will continue to blow up buses every now and then, and Hamas will continue to fire a few rockets over the border and kill some sheep. Israel will continue to retaliate with a 100 pound fist to the face of those people.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said in an interview that he fully wants to talk with Palestinians who truly want peace. But there are those who only want more land from Israel in order to finally destroy Israel. I'm sure you know vundy33 that if Israel was reduced to the size that is being proposed with the pre-1967 borders, there would be no way for Israel to defend themselves. They would be completely surrounded. And from what I've heard, losing the Golan Heights (located in northeastern Israel) would be very bad to lose since the Golan Heights are known as a strategic military point.

And when I say that there are those who would want to destroy Israel, I'm not just talking about Hamas or Al-Qaeda. I'm also talking about Iran, Turkey, Syria, Egypt, etc. I posted a link earlier that shows how many countries have went to war against Israel. And if Israel is weak enough, I would assume those countries would be fully welcome of going to war again against Israel.

I made an earlier post about Israel giving away their land. Here's my earlier post:

I don't think there will ever be peace in the Middle East. The reason why the Palestinians don't like Israel is not because of a claim of a small amount of land or even of Jerusalem. I personally believe that even if Israel gave their entire country to the Palestinians, it still wouldn't be enough.

I've found some videos that some of you might be interested in watching. I sadly can't put these videos here on the website since I don't know how to (Could a moderator or administrator help me with this? ). By the way, I apologize for any cuss words or anything in the comments below the videos. I hope I'm not breaking any of the website's rules, and I'm willing to take these videos away and receive any consequences if I am breaking the rules. Here are the videos:





These videos show that there are at least some in the Middle East who would like to destroy Israel and/or commit genocide of the Jewish people.

And I know that some of you are probably tired of me mentioning this, but this could show that Ezekiel 38-39 might be fulfilled soon.

And vundy33, about the young Israelis who want to make a Palestinian state, they should know better not to question old people like Hoot Gibson.

[Hoot Gibson]

I've not seen much U.S. pressuring of Israeli, but if it is going on, it needs to stop. We would tell someone that was pressuring us to do that to STFU, to be honest, and we all know that.

But, I have seen and heard many Israeli's saying just give them their state, they don't care anymore. This coming from the younger, 18-30 generation of Israeli's. The older, of course, are much different and see the negatives of this, like Hoot. Which is a good thing, I think.

Every American president since Jimmy Carter has pressured Israel to engage in a "peace process" that involves Israel surrendering territory and making other concessions while most Muslim nations in the region and their Palestinian neighbours have steadfastly refused to even publicly acknowledge Israel's right to exist as they have continued to fund terrorist organizations like Hamas, Hezbollah, and the PLO, as rockets fall on Israeli civilian neighbourhoods.

Carter won a Nobel Prize for his success in bringing Sadat and Begin to the table to sign a treaty and every president since wants to be remembered for doing his part.

[Deathstar 80]

Here's a quote that I thought everyone should read, but I would like to warn everyone that this quote is graphic:

Also on the list are Abdel Aziz Salha, who was photographed raising his bloody hands to a cheering crowd after killing two Israeli soldiers who accidentally drove into the West Bank city of Ramallah in 2000;

Here's the link: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/10/17/...z1b2dqswSY

^This quote shows how much Israel is hated in that region. Two Israeli soldiers are murdered in the West Bank, and the surrounding crowd cheers to the person who murdered them.

From what I've heard about a week or two ago, I think President Abbas is still going around the world and asking people to support the making of a Palestinian state. Please support Israel. They're hated by a lot of people.

[vundy33]

To bad the Israeli's are releasing the guy you quoted, and a crapload of other Palestinians that are behind some of the worst attacks ever on Israel...

We would never do that, and we haven't done that. 477 prisoners for 1? It's ridiculous! It's one freakin' life! I'm sorry, but it's war, and this is completely crazy. They're releasing quite a few people who are going to go right back to attacking Israel. And for what? What are the those civilians that will die as a result of some of these guys being released dying for? One Israeli soldier's life?

I would say the exact same thing if it was an American in his place. It sucks, but it's just not worth the threat, in my opinion. The only way I would agree with it is if Israel hit them with an air strike after the trade, which isn't going to happen.

[Deathstar 80]

To bad the Israeli's are releasing the guy you quoted, and a crapload of other Palestinians that are behind some of the worst attacks ever on Israel...

We would never do that, and we haven't done that. 477 prisoners for 1? It's ridiculous! It's one freakin' life! I'm sorry, but it's war, and this is completely crazy. They're releasing quite a few people who are going to go right back to attacking Israel. And for what? What are the those civilians that will die as a result of some of these guys being released dying for? One Israeli soldier's life?

I would say the exact same thing if it was an American in his place. It sucks, but it's just not worth the threat, in my opinion. The only way I would agree with it is if Israel hit them with an air strike after the trade, which isn't going to happen.

Personally, I find it tough to determine whether or not Israel made the right choice. I know that each individual (including that Israeli soldier) has great value and should be protected, but trading to free one person and releasing 477 potential enemies is pretty controversial.

And once again, just to let everyone know, I'm not criticizing all of the Palestinians. There are Palestinians who truly want peace with Israel and have no hate towards the Jews. God bless them. But there are many Palestinians who truly want the Jews to be killed.

[vundy33]

Personally, I find it tough to determine whether or not Israel made the right choice. I know that each individual (including that Israeli soldier) has great value and should be protected, but trading to free one person and releasing 477 potential enemies is pretty controversial.

And once again, just to let everyone know, I'm not criticizing all of the Palestinians. There are Palestinians who truly want peace with Israel and have no hate towards the Jews. God bless them. But there are many Palestinians who truly want the Jews to be killed.

lol, exactly. Read that article again. They are releasing quite a few people who have been convicted of carrying out and helping to carry out attacks against Israel military and civilians, mostly civilians.

It would be bad enough to make this stupid trade if they knew that some of these people would go after military targets, but for the most part, they don't. They go after civilians, whether it's women or children, they don't care.

The totally jacked up part of this is is that Israel has traded like this before, and some of the prisoners they gave back have been killed or captured a second time...it's so messed up, I can't believe they are doing this.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu sent a letter Monday to hundreds of families of terror victims. In his letter, Netanyahu expressed understanding and empathy for the families, but stated that he is "faced with the responsibility of the Prime Minister of Israel to bring home every soldier who is sent to protect our citizens."

Really?! Really you stupid ass idiot?!?! You have a bigger duty to protect Israeli CIVILIANS! POW's are part of war! You do not freakin release hundreds of enemy's of your state for ONE LIFE! They are going to take so many more than that...more soldiers, more civilian men, women and children are going to die as a direct result of this.

My sympathy for Israel is wearing thin with completely idiotic actions like these. I really don't know how these people behind this can sleep at night, and I don't know how this soldier is either. Do they not love their country?!?! Man...if my government wanted to do something as stupid as this just to get me back, I would rather die than to be traded for enemies who are going to kill more of my brothers. I can't imagine feeling ANY other way about it, especially when it won't only be his brothers they're killing, but his own country's civilians.

I just can't imagine this stupid crap...

[vundy33]

Ok people...am I missing something here? Last night, I watched coverage of this for about 3 hours last night/early this morning. Listening to old British men talk is probably one of the worst things ever, by the way. Anyway, this kid (the single Israeli soldier that was traded for nearly 1000 Palestinians) was all smiles when he was being interviewed.

Now, I've never been captured, so I have no damn idea what it's like to be honest. I have to imagine it sucked..and if Israeli POW's are treated anything like American's are by Al-Qaeda/Taliban, then it sucked pretty bad for him. BUT...many of these people he was traded for had been found guilty of committing terrorists acts against HIS OWN people and country! How can he be smiling knowing that he's alive and innocent civilians will probably die because of this?! He was asked a question, something like "Will you support further prisoner exchanges with Palestine", and he said "I would be very happy to see all prisoners free." Really?! They are your enemy man! They want you to be wiped off the damn map.

On the Palestinian side, it was a damn celebration. Quite a few Hamas supporters started up chanting "we want another Shalit(name of the Israeli soldier)!". Come on...

Please someone, enlighten me, am I missing anything here? Is there a good reason, ANY reason, that this prisoner swap took place? I have two Israeli friends, one who is still in the IDF, the other finished her enlistment recently. One of them has my feelings towards this and is pretty embarrassed about the whole thing, and the other really said she doesn't care either way, but does think it's going to bite them in the ass.

I hope I'm wrong, and that there is some reason for this.

[TheRealVille]

This kind of exchange sounds crazy to me. To me, only the Israeli soldier and his family would be happy over this exchange. You can guarantee it will bite Israel in the ass. They will lose many more people than this one soldier in the long run.

[vundy33]

Man, I don't even know how he can be happy man...I don't know how I'd be able to live with myself knowing that my life was traded for over 1000 enemy lives, when quite a few of those enemies were responsible for the death of innocent men, women and children from my own country.

Like I said before, I'm in no place to really tell the dude what he should/shouldn't feel, after he's been a Jewish POW in Arab hands...but man, I know that right now, I would rather die than to give the enemy, any enemy, so many of their own back that have been convicted of, and will almost certainly go back to, killing innocent people. That is ALOT different than going after military targets. I'd rather die either way, but these people not only killed his brothers, and his entire damn tank crew, but they got on buses and went into malls and killed civilians. Women and children, entire families, purposely. The guy definitely has to have a completely different outlook on than I do. I wouldn't want to live with the guilt of me being released, when more of my brothers and more civilians will die as a direct result. Hell, it just gives them that much more reason to capture another Israeli!

This is probably one of the biggest screw-ups in Israeli history, in my opinion. I can't believe the Israeli PM actually had the balls to get on TV and shake his finger at the cameras and say "Now you freed prisoners should expect that if you commit any more crimes against the state of Israeli, you will be dealt with to the fullest extent of the law". Yeah, duh.

I still can't get my mind wrapped around this...wow. From the hate that most Israeli's have for Hamas and any of their neighbors that attack them and want them dead, I would have never, ever expected something like this to go down.

[Deathstar 80]

Man, I don't even know how he can be happy man...I don't know how I'd be able to live with myself knowing that my life was traded for over 1000 enemy lives, when quite a few of those enemies were responsible for the death of innocent men, women and children from my own country.

Like I said before, I'm in no place to really tell the dude what he should/shouldn't feel, after he's been a Jewish POW in Arab hands...but man, I know that right now, I would rather die than to give the enemy, any enemy, so many of their own back that have been convicted of, and will almost certainly go back to, killing innocent people. That is ALOT different than going after military targets. I'd rather die either way, but these people not only killed his brothers, and his entire damn tank crew, but they got on buses and went into malls and killed civilians. Women and children, entire families, purposely. The guy definitely has to have a completely different outlook on than I do. I wouldn't want to live with the guilt of me being released, when more of my brothers and more civilians will die as a direct result. Hell, it just gives them that much more reason to capture another Israeli!

This is probably one of the biggest screw-ups in Israeli history, in my opinion. I can't believe the Israeli PM actually had the balls to get on TV and shake his finger at the cameras and say "Now you freed prisoners should expect that if you commit any more crimes against the state of Israeli, you will be dealt with to the fullest extent of the law". Yeah, duh.

I still can't get my mind wrapped around this...wow. From the hate that most Israeli's have for Hamas and any of their neighbors that attack them and want them dead, I would have never, ever expected something like this to go down.

I was surprised to hear about this as well. I would think some of those prisoners might become suicide bombers and, therefore, would have no reason to care about the full extent of the law. I really hope Prime Minister Netanyahou knows what he's doing.

Again, I'm very, very glad the Israeli soldier is back with his family. But to trade him for 1,000 potential murderers is very, very controversial.

By the way, I want to point something out. I think vundy33 talked about it above in that as soon as the Palestinian prisoners were freed, an entire crowd was there to cheer for them. To be honest, I have to calm myself down whenever I hear that Israel is "oppressive." What's oppressive about Israel?!? They just released 1000 guilty criminals and potential murderers, all for 1 soldier! And they sent these 1000 criminals to a cheering crowd! Secondly, I encourage everyone to look at the wars that Israel has been in. How many of those wars has Israel started? Who were the people who went to war with Israel on the first day Israel was made? That's why I keep asking people to please stand with Israel. I'm telling all of you, people are trying to set Israel up to be the bad guys so that those who hate Israel can go to war with the "oppressive" Israel. When looking at the Middle East, we have to identify which countries are good and which countries are evil.

Lastly, please don't determine this information about Israel from me. Please research this yourself.

[Deathstar 80]

From the Fox News website:

Palestinians Urge U.N. Action Against Israel

The Palestinians urged the U.N. Security Council on Thursday to take action against Israel for accelerating settlement construction and "illegally hijacking" Palestinian tax revenue in retaliation for their new membership in UNESCO.

Riyad Mansour, the Palestinian U.N. observer, said the Palestinians also want the Security Council to move quickly on their application to become a full member of the United Nations.

Palestine won its first major international endorsement on Monday when the Paris-based United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization voted to grant it full membership, a decision that immediately led to a cutoff in funding from the United States and Canada.

Israel retaliated by announcing construction of 2,000 new apartments in east Jerusalem, where the Palestinians want their capital, and suspending the transfer of tax payments totaling some $100 million that it collects on behalf of the Palestinian Authority.

Mansour warned that if Israel's retaliatory actions aren't stopped immediately, the volatile region might see further "escalations and provocations."

"The bottom line is we want the Security Council to react to this latest escalation and provocation with a view of stopping it and containing it," Mansour said, adding that it would welcome a council statement or resolution.

The United States, Israel's closest ally, sharply criticized the new construction and tax suspension on Wednesday, but whether it would support even the most mild Security Council action -- a press statement -- remains to be seen.

The UNESCO vote came as the Security Council is considering an application for full U.N. membership by the Palestinians.

The council's committee on admissions met Thursday afternoon to record positions of the 15 members so that a report can be prepared for consideration by the committee on Nov. 11.

Diplomats said six countries announced support for Palestinian membership -- China, Russia, Brazil, India, South Africa and Lebanon. Three countries announced they would abstain -- France, Britain and Colombia -- and the United States said it would oppose the

Palestinian bid, the diplomats said, speaking on condition of anonymity because the meeting was private.

Four countries didn't announce a final position -- Nigeria, Gabon, Germany and Portugal -- while Bosnia said it was unable to make a statement because the government does not have an agreed position, the diplomats said. Bosnia's three-member presidency is split on the issue which means it will most likely abstain.

Mansour told reporters that after the Nov. 11 meeting -- the ninth by the admissions committee -- "it is time for the Security Council to act on our application," even though the U.S. has promised a veto if the Palestinians don't get the minimum of nine "yes" votes.

"We would like this application to come to a close," he said, but he wouldn't give a date for a vote.

Mansour said "it's very unfortunate" that Palestine's membership in UNESCO has led the U.S. to cut $60 million in annual funding and Canada to end its $10 million a year contribution to the organization.

U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon said in an interview Thursday with The Associated Press that Palestinian efforts to join U.N. agencies beyond UNESCO are "not beneficial for anybody" and could lead to even further cuts in funding that would affect millions of people.

Mansour responded saying "Palestine is studying everything including the ramifications of being a member at UNESCO ... and the implications."

"We are not rushing into anything," he said. "We want to be ready for all steps, any steps that we might take in the future based on full knowledge" of the ramifications of the UNESCO vote.

Palestinian Foreign Minister Riad Malki said earlier Thursday there were no immediate plans to apply for membership at other U.N. agencies and the focus would be on the U.N. membership bid at the Security Council.

Here's the link: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/11/03/...z1cjsGTMMg