[TheRealVille]

Hopefully this church loses it's 501c3 status due to his comments during services.

Ky. pastor told flock to vote out Obama


LOUISVILLE, Ky. (AP) - A Washington-based watchdog group says an
eastern Kentucky Baptist pastor violated federal law when he urged
his followers to vote President Barack Obama out of office in
November.

Pastor Ronnie Spriggs of Hager Hill Freewill Baptist Church said
during a May 13 sermon that he wants Obama voted out of office
because of the president's support of gay marriage. Spriggs said
"this country can't afford that kind of ideology."

Americans United for Separation of Church and State says
Spriggs' comments violate a federal law that says tax-exempt
churches should not oppose a candidate.

Executive Director Barry Lynn says Spriggs "clearly doesn't
care what the law says."

Spriggs did not return phone calls to his home and office. A
video of the sermon was streamed on the Johnson County church's
website.

(Copyright 2012 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)

http://www.wkyt.com/wymt/home/headlines/...96355.html

[LWC]

^This pastor should know that he cannot make political statements telling a congregation to vote for or against a certain party of candidate. Sheesh!

[Hoot Gibson]

I have no problem with the clergy speaking out against politicians who promote lifestyles that are contrary to their religious beliefs. As long as Media Matters remains tax exempt, no church should be facing the loss of their status. Democratic candidates regularly appear in predominately black churches and give political speeches but liberals cannot seem to find their voices to object in those cases. I would like to see restrictions on religious organizations being involved in political campaigns eliminated or found unconstitutional.

[TheRealVille]

I have no problem with the clergy speaking out against politicians who promote lifestyles that are contrary to their religious beliefs. As long as Media Matters remains tax exempt, no church should be facing the loss of their status. Democratic candidates regularly appear in predominately black churches and give political speeches but liberals cannot seem to find their voices to object in those cases. I would like to see restrictions on religious organizations being involved in political campaigns eliminated or found unconstitutional.

Who would have thunk it? You would only object if they spoke against republicans. You can't be tax exempt, and political. It's simple.

[Bob Seger]

^This pastor should know that he cannot make political statements telling a congregation to vote for or against a certain party of candidate. Sheesh!

You should be absolutely ashamed of yourself LWC. Now I have completely lost all faith and confidence in you. That is about as wishy washy of a statement as I have ever heard of coming from a quote "man of God". Lukewarm, Lukewarm, Lukewarm. There is not one single person in that congregation that wasn't there because they didn't want to either be there or did not have the option of of never coming back through the door again. It's evident you dont have the backbone to standup for God's word and what the truths are. Again I am really really really ashamed of you.

Thank goodness Jesus wasn't afraid to ruffle a few feathers once upon a time, and guess what? I dont think he was worried about any stupid tax exempt status....

[Hoot Gibson]

Who would have thunk it? You would only object if they spoke against republicans. You can't be tax exempt, and political. It's simple.

You once again show your struggle with the written word. I am opposed to government regulation of all churches, including the prohibition of campaigning in churches, which people like Obama and the Clintons ignore anyway. So, yes you can be tax exempt and political in this country because the laws governing campaigning in churches are selectively enforced. IMO, the regulations are an infringement on First Amendment rights and should be eliminated for everybody.

[OrangenowBlue]

I have no problem with the clergy speaking out against politicians who promote lifestyles that are contrary to their religious beliefs. As long as Media Matters remains tax exempt, no church should be facing the loss of their status. Democratic candidates regularly appear in predominately black churches and give political speeches but liberals cannot seem to find their voices to object in those cases. I would like to see restrictions on religious organizations being involved in political campaigns eliminated or found unconstitutional.

I will have to agree with Hoot that clergy should have right to speak against politicians. However, this goes to the other side when you have pastors speaking out against war and the death penalty. I also have problem with pastors such as the one in North Carolina who stated that homosexuals should be rounded up and put behind a fence and have food dropped to them out of the sky. Any Christian who supports this ideology is no better then the Nazi's were in Germany during WWII. They have a right to freedom of speech but anyone else has the right to denounce them. Using religion to promote your own hatred in a vile way is one of the lowest forms of humanity. As far as the pastor in Johnson County, I don't think he did anything bad. If he was promoting violence or bad behavior that would be something different.

[Bob Seger]

I will have to agree with Hoot that clergy should have right to speak against politicians. However, this goes to the other side when you have pastors speaking out against war and the death penalty. I also have problem with pastors such as the one in North Carolina who stated that homosexuals should be rounded up and put behind a fence and have food dropped to them out of the sky. Any Christian who supports this ideology is no better then the Nazi's were in Germany during WWII. They have a right to freedom of speech but anyone else has the right to denounce them. Using religion to promote your own hatred in a vile way is one of the lowest forms of humanity.

Good post ,but keep this in mind OnB, nobody is forced to attend any congregation and no one is forced to believe anything that any speaker says.


Remember as well that "Not everyone who says lord,lord........"

[WideRight05]

Had this guy said to vote against Romney this wouldn't have even made news.

[RunItUpTheGut]

lol and this is a surprise?

I'd say 99% of churches in EKY have pastors telling their followers to vote out obama.

[LWC]

You should be absolutely ashamed of yourself LWC. Now I have completely lost all faith and confidence in you. That is about as wishy washy of a statement as I have ever heard of coming from a quote "man of God". Lukewarm, Lukewarm, Lukewarm. There is not one single person in that congregation that wasn't there because they didn't want to either be there or did not have the option of of never coming back through the door again. It's evident you dont have the backbone to standup for God's word and what the truths are. Again I am really really really ashamed of you.

Thank goodness Jesus wasn't afraid to ruffle a few feathers once upon a time, and guess what? I dont think he was worried about any stupid tax exempt status....

Really?

Notice my statement carefully. Matter of fact, please take the time to re-read it.

Go ahead, I'll wait ...................waiting.......................waiting................waiting.............

Okay, my post was strictly the law. A pastor cannot stand in a pulpit and endorse or non-endorse a specific candidate or party. A pastor can stand up and say they support gay marriage or they can say they are against abortion but they cannot say "Do not vote for......." or "Vote for..........."

As a matter of fact, I honestly believe that a pastor should stay away from speaking about politics in general. I believe there is a MUCH bigger and MUCH more important battle to be fought than the one in the voting booth, it is the one against the devil.

You might also want to look up the context of "lukewarm". It applies to holy living, not political stances. Peter and Paul disagreed about matters that related to very important issues of the day, but they were able to minister and help change the world. Why can't you and I agree on the basics of the faith and change the world we live in? You can minister from what you have been called to and I will change it from mine. Both of us will do it by the power of the Holy Spirit.

However, statements like:
"completely lost all faith and confidence in you"
"wishy washy"
"a quote "man of God".
"Lukewarm, Lukewarm, Lukewarm"
"It's evident you dont have the backbone to standup for God's word and what the truths are"

I hope you stand up for the people that you truly know. People that do what I do have to be thick-skinned because, unfortunately, this stuff is heard from time to time.

I will say this with all seriousness, care and love. I hope and pray that your pastor speaks about the Bible, not just politics. I also hope their sermons are built around the Bible and not political messages with some supplemental verses plugged in. From what I am gathering, you prefer the latter.

[TheRealVille]

Good post ,but keep this in mind OnB, nobody is forced to attend any congregation and no one is forced to believe anything that any speaker says.


Remember as well that "Not everyone who says lord,lord........"

Forced to be there or not has no bearing on anything. A church that falls under 501c3 status can not use the church as a political platform, and remain tax free.

[Bob Seger]

Really?

Notice my statement carefully. Matter of fact, please take the time to re-read it.

Go ahead, I'll wait ...................waiting.......................waiting................waiting.............

Okay, my post was strictly the law. A pastor cannot stand in a pulpit and endorse or non-endorse a specific candidate or party. A pastor can stand up and say they support gay marriage or they can say they are against abortion but they cannot say "Do not vote for......." or "Vote for..........."

As a matter of fact, I honestly believe that a pastor should stay away speaking about politics in general. I believe there is a MUCH bigger and MUCH more important battle to be fought than the one in the voting booth, it is the one against the devil.

You might also want to look up the context of "lukewarm". It applies to holy living, not political stances. Peter and Paul disagreed about matters that related to very important issues of the day, but they were able to minister and help change the world. Why can't you and I agree on the basics of the faith and change the world we live in? You can minister from what you have been called to and I will change it from mine. Both of us will do it by the power of the Holy Spirit.

However, statements like:
"completely lost all faith and confidence in you"
"wishy washy"
"a quote "man of God".
"Lukewarm, Lukewarm, Lukewarm"
"It's evident you dont have the backbone to standup for God's word and what the truths are"

I hope you stand up for the people that you truly know. People that do what I do have to be thick-skinned because, unfortunately, this stuff is heard from time to time.

I will say this with all seriousness, care and love. I hope and pray that your pastor speaks about the Bible, not just politics. I also hope their sermons are built around the Bible and not political messages with some supplemental verses plugged in. From what I am gathering, you prefer the latter.

You can pay attention real close to this LWC. Hope you didn't have to wait....wait...wait too long on this.

I'm, gonna put this real blunt to you. You know me well enough to know that I am not going to mince words with you. If you dont have the courage to tell it like it is. If all it is that you fear for is your JOB. If you feel you must be politically correct and are scared to death to speak the word of God as it fits into this wicked lifestyle this world has chosen and the leaders that not only condone it , but support it, you may want to recheck your conviction to your chosen "profession".

Strictly the law?....haha I dont think the disciples were too much worried about little things like "tax exempt laws" before they were imprisioned for speaking out against the laws of the Scribes and the Pharisees. They felt the true message was worth their lives to administer. In short, they weren't afraid of their JOBS. They were the true movers and the shakers of this world.


Try this one out for lukewarm....Neither HOT nor COLD. Where you fittin in? I know what I'm spewing out of my mouth.


And yes I do stand up for people I truely know because that is what I am doing for Pastor Spriggs. I dont attend his church, but I do know him and I do know of how many souls he has worked for in this community and I am proud to say I know him as a friend, and as a former classmate. The Lord has truely blessed him and the congregation he has worked to help build. If only you knew LWC.

I was not at the service where he spoke these words, but I am guessing that the shock he had at the time of hearing something come from of all people, the President of the United States and say something along the lines of like "Michelle and I as Christians.....yada,yada" was enough to make him finally have to say something. I personally can think of nothing in my lifetime as revolting and disgusting coming from a public official as what this sorry piece of trash in the White House has condoned and publicly supported. I know full well what you are saying about more important things than politics in a service or message and I agree. If you knew the man that preached the sermon you would know....but instead you condemn what you should be amening. When you that are in the pulpit are not afraid to call things for what they are, and of who is responsible, then how do you expect for this country to survive the rapid rate of moral decay that we are experiencing? Think about this again, this is the President of the United States!!!! How many lost and seeking out there are being swayed into thinking that what this man advocates is acceptable? The office carries tremendous influence.


And I as well say back to you with all "seriousness, care, and love" , that unless any speaker of the word is not afraid to talk of things ,if they are true, without fear (regardless of the subject matter), then I am inclined to not pay a whole lot of attention to them, to begin with. That be, whether it come from the pulpit,.............. or from a message board pastor. I really dont care much for the jellyfish approach. That is first, what I prefer in my sermons LWC.

[Bob Seger]

lol and this is a surprise?

I'd say 99% of churches in EKY have pastors telling their followers to vote out obama.

If they are worth their salt, they are.

[Bob Seger]

Forced to be there or not has no bearing on anything. A church that falls under 501c3 status can not use the church as a political platform, and remain tax free.

Is that all the government's got? Who gives a tiddly toot about a tax exempt status?

[OrangenowBlue]

Had this guy said to vote against Romney this wouldn't have even made news.

WYMT/WKYT has a history of being owned by a more conservative organization. Many of their of their employees have been active in the Republican party and they are also owners of the Fox affiliate in Lexington. I think it would have equally made news about Romney in this situation due to his Mormon faith. Ralph Gabbard, the former owner of WKYT and founder of WYMT was a staunch member of the Republican party.

[LWC]

You can pay attention real close to this LWC. Hope you didn't have to wait....wait...wait too long on this.

I'm, gonna put this real blunt to you. You know me well enough to know that I am not going to mince words with you. If you dont have the courage to tell it like it is. If all it is that you fear for is your JOB. If you feel you must be politically correct and are scared to death to speak the word of God as it fits into this wicked lifestyle this world has chosen and the leaders that not only condone it , but support it, you may want to recheck your conviction to your chosen "profession".

Strictly the law?....haha I dont think the disciples were too much worried about little things like "tax exempt laws" before they were imprisioned for speaking out against the laws of the Scribes and the Pharisees. They felt the true message was worth their lives to administer. In short, they weren't afraid of their JOBS. They were the true movers and the shakers of this world.


Try this one out for lukewarm....Neither HOT nor COLD. Where you fittin in? I know what I'm spewing out of my mouth.


And yes I do stand up for people I truely know because that is what I am doing for Pastor Spriggs. I dont attend his church, but I do know him and I do know of how many souls he has worked for in this community and I am proud to say I know him as a friend, and as a former classmate. The Lord has truely blessed him and the congregation he has worked to help build. If only you knew LWC.

I was not at the service where he spoke these words, but I am guessing that the shock he had at the time of hearing something come from of all people, the President of the United States and say something along the lines of like "Michelle and I as Christians.....yada,yada" was enough to make him finally have to say something. I personally can think of nothing in my lifetime as revolting and disgusting coming from a public official as what this sorry piece of trash in the White House has condoned and publicly supported. I know full well what you are saying about more important things than politics in a service or message and I agree. If you knew the man that preached the sermon you would know....but instead you condemn what you should be amening. When you that are in the pulpit are not afraid to call things for what they are, and of who is responsible, then how do you expect for this country to survive the rapid rate of moral decay that we are experiencing? Think about this again, this is the President of the United States!!!! How many lost and seeking out there are being swayed into thinking that what this man advocates is acceptable? The office carries tremendous influence.


And I as well say back to you with all "seriousness, care, and love" , that unless any speaker of the word is not afraid to talk of things ,if they are true, without fear (regardless of the subject matter), then I am inclined to not pay a whole lot of attention to them, to begin with. That be, whether it come from the pulpit,.............. or from a message board pastor. I really dont care much for the jellyfish approach. That is first, what I prefer in my sermons LWC.

We have to be miscommunicating because I must not be fully understanding you and you must not be fully understanding me. I believe that a pastor can speak about certain issues GENERALLY, if they feel the conviction to do so. For example, many Christians that I know are 100% against abortion. If the pastor feels compelled and moved to speak out against it, AND IT COMES FROM THE VERSES THEY ARE PREACHING ON ANYWAY. Remember we don't want pastors picking topics and supplementing verses, we want the message to come from the Bible. Maybe that pastor feels as if Jeremiah Chapter 1 speaks against abortion. If so, preach it with conviction and do not look back. Stand firmly. However, a person can preach against abortion without specifically saying, "I hate abortion, so you should not vote for President Obama in November." Does the Bible say not to vote for Obama? Does the Bible say TO vote for Mitt Romney?

With the above, obviously the Bible does not say to vote for or against a certain candidate, but pastors have to trust their congregations, have enough faith in them that they can apply what is being said to their election day votes.

BTW- If I felt that an issue needed to be discussed in a open forum, (NOT A SERMON), I would have no hesitation about anything the government would do. I just feel as if there are 66 Books of the Bible and only 52 weeks in a year. Too much of God's Word to preach to fill the pulpit with political stuff.

[Bob Seger]

We have to be miscommunicating because I must not be fully understanding you and you must not be fully understanding me. I believe that a pastor can speak about certain issues GENERALLY, if they feel the conviction to do so. For example, many Christians that I know are 100% against abortion. If the pastor feels compelled and moved to speak out against it, AND IT COMES FROM THE VERSES THEY ARE PREACHING ON ANYWAY. Remember we don't want pastors picking topics and supplementing verses, we want the message to come from the Bible. Maybe that pastor feels as if Jeremiah Chapter 1 speaks against abortion. If so, preach it with conviction and do not look back. Stand firmly. However, a person can preach against abortion without specifically saying, "I hate abortion, so you should not vote for President Obama in November." Does the Bible say not to vote for Obama? Does the Bible say TO vote for Mitt Romney?

With the above, obviously the Bible does not say to vote for or against a certain candidate, but pastors have to trust their congregations, have enough faith in them that they can apply what is being said to their election day votes.

BTW- If I felt that an issue needed to be discussed in a open forum, (NOT A SERMON), I would have no hesitation about anything the government would do. I just feel as if there are 66 Books of the Bible and only 52 weeks in a year. Too much of God's Word to preach to fill the pulpit with political stuff.

Actually I think there is much adoo about nothing here LWC, as it appears the media is overblowing things just a tad, that is, IMO. I dont have time to relay what I want right now but I will expand my thoughts on this a little later after I catch a few things up.

[Truth]

Hopefully this church loses it's 501c3 status due to his comments during services.


http://www.wkyt.com/wymt/home/headlines/...96355.html

With Holder, the Muskrat, as AG, that might happen. Of course, it would prove less vindictive and political if all those black churches who preach Obama from the pulpit also lose their tax exempt status. But, we all know that that will never happen.

I suspect many of these black churches have never qualified under the IRS Code for tax exempt status anyway. But, no one would ever check it out because they would be labeled as a "racist" and, after all, in politically correct America there is no worse label whatsoever than that.

[Truth]

Who would have thunk it? You would only object if they spoke against republicans. You can't be tax exempt, and political. It's simple.

With the Muskrat running the justice department, you don't really believe that, do you? The Muskrat isn't going to do anything to all those black churches that preach solid Obama.

[Bob Seger]

With the Muskrat running the justice department, you don't really believe that, do you? The Muskrat isn't going to do anything to all those black churches that preach solid Obama.

Just like when he turned his head to the Black Panthers terrorizing voters at the polls.

[Truth]

Just like when he turned his head to the Black Panthers terrorizing voters at the polls.

Absolutely. Wouldn't it be correct to call the Muskrat a racist? How can he be deemed otherwise? And, keep in mind that he operates according to the whims of the little fellow in the White House.

[TheRealThing]

You once again show your struggle with the written word. I am opposed to government regulation of all churches, including the prohibition of campaigning in churches, which people like Obama and the Clintons ignore anyway. So, yes you can be tax exempt and political in this country because the laws governing campaigning in churches are selectively enforced. IMO, the regulations are an infringement on First Amendment rights and should be eliminated for everybody.

Very good post and an excellent point. It's all subjective anyway. Liberals are forever out there looking for an opportunity to point a finger at a conservative, while being willing to wink at things like campaigning in churches. Let's jump up on Jeremiah Wright, senior pastor of Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago and call for the loss of their 501C3 as well. His remarks were inflamatory, maybe even nuclear by comparison to Hager Hill FW Baptist. On second thought, let's stay out of other folks business and let them worship freely. It is truly unbelievable that people are calling for even our churches to be regulated by the federal government.

[TheRealVille]

Very good post and an excellent point. It's all subjective anyway. Liberals are forever out there looking for an opportunity to point a finger at a conservative, while being willing to wink at things like campaigning in churches. Let's jump up on Jeremiah Wright, senior pastor of Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago and call for the loss of their 501C3 as well. His remarks were inflamatory, maybe even nuclear by comparison to Hager Hill FW Baptist. On second thought, let's stay out of other folks business and let them worship freely.

I'm against campaigning for ANY candidate in church. 2nd bold: Tell them to pay taxes on their income, and they will be able to do anything they want.

[TheRealThing]

I'm against campaigning for ANY candidate in church. 2nd bold: Tell them to pay taxes on their income, and they will be able to do anything they want.

I think the idea is that not many men would have the courage to tax the Almighty. Charitable donations are off limits for taxation across the board, whether it's chruch, soup kitchens, the Shriner's Hospital, or choke, the Occupy Main Street Movement.

[TheRealThing]

We have to be miscommunicating because I must not be fully understanding you and you must not be fully understanding me. I believe that a pastor can speak about certain issues GENERALLY, if they feel the conviction to do so. For example, many Christians that I know are 100% against abortion. If the pastor feels compelled and moved to speak out against it, AND IT COMES FROM THE VERSES THEY ARE PREACHING ON ANYWAY. Remember we don't want pastors picking topics and supplementing verses, we want the message to come from the Bible. Maybe that pastor feels as if Jeremiah Chapter 1 speaks against abortion. If so, preach it with conviction and do not look back. Stand firmly. However, a person can preach against abortion without specifically saying, "I hate abortion, so you should not vote for President Obama in November." Does the Bible say not to vote for Obama? Does the Bible say TO vote for Mitt Romney?

With the above, obviously the Bible does not say to vote for or against a certain candidate, but pastors have to trust their congregations, have enough faith in them that they can apply what is being said to their election day votes.

BTW- If I felt that an issue needed to be discussed in a open forum, (NOT A SERMON), I would have no hesitation about anything the government would do. I just feel as if there are 66 Books of the Bible and only 52 weeks in a year. Too much of God's Word to preach to fill the pulpit with political stuff.

I guarantee you one thing, the man that lines up with Obama this Nov will share in the shame. I'm saying those that vote for him by definition thereby support his policies, abortion, gay marraige, etc. and therefore share in the responsibility. Aiding and abetting.

Acts 5:29 (KJV)
29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

[vector]

how about all the innocent people killed in the iraq war

[Wildcatk23]

Mitts a Mormon right>? Just let him baptize you after you die.

[TheRealVille]

I guarantee you one thing, the man that lines up with Obama this Nov will share in the shame. I'm saying those that vote for him by definition thereby support his policies, abortion, gay marraige, etc. and therefore share in the responsibility. Aiding and abetting.

Acts 5:29 (KJV)
29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

Did they share in the shame of Bush?

[Wildcatk23]

I guarantee you one thing, the man that lines up with Obama this Nov will share in the shame. I'm saying those that vote for him by definition thereby support his policies, abortion, gay marraige, etc. and therefore share in the responsibility. Aiding and abetting.

Acts 5:29 (KJV)
29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

Your man Romney was Pro Choice in 2002. So id he changes his mind again are people who voted for him doomed?