[IAM22]

In a recent thread a poster stated that a school was recruiting 8th graders to come to a particular high school.

In follow up posts a couple of members said that there is no rule against it.

Well, I do not believe that is completely true. Of course, I may be reading it wrong.

KHSAA By-Law 10 states:

http://khsaa.org/handbook/bylaws/bylaw10.pdf

A couple of highlights from the link.

1)A pupil (domestic or foreign) at any grade level shall not be
recruited to a member school of the KHSAA for the purpose of
participating in athletics, including recruitment under the guise
of academics.

2)What are permissible contacts by
coaches, athletic directors and other individuals
with a connection (direct or indirect) to the athletic
program or school?
Permissible contacts include:
1) Public high school representatives contacting students at feeder public schools (elementary, middle school, junior high school) where there is a defi ned feeder pattern;
2) Non-public school representatives contacting students at feeder non-public schools (elementary, middle school / junior high school) where there is defi ned feeder pattern;
3) A representative of the school may initiate a meeting with students at a school that is defi ned as a feeder school or meet with students who are zoned to attend that school the
following year. This visit shall be cleared by principals of both schools and shall not be specifi c to athletic opportunities; and
4) Any student or family or individual that contacts a coach about attending a school where he or she coaches shall be informed that they need to be referred to the principal,
admissions department or guidance department if they have an interest. Any meeting with coaches regarding athletes or prospective athletes or their families shall be at the request
of the family to the individual(s) responsible for admissions and shall take place at the school.
Case BL-10-4- What is impermissible contact and what
are some examples prior to enrollment (neither
enrolled in the school nor enrolled in a feeder school
under the same Board of Education) by coaches,
athletic directors and other individuals with a
connection (direct or indirect) to the athletic program
or school whether or not the prospective student has
an athletic participation record?
A person or persons exceeding what is appropriate or normal
or offering any incentive or inducement to a student or the
student’s family with or without that student having an
athletic participation record shall be considered in violation.
Impermissible contact includes but is not limited to any contact
between a parent or student and a member school coach or
other athletic representative without an immediate referral
to the appropriate school personnel (Principal, Guidance
Counselor, Admissions Personnel or other non-athletically
related school administration).
The fact that a student or student’s family has shown an initial
interest (such as signing up for mentoring, shadowing, testing
or a facility tour) does not allow any member of the coaching
staff or anyone else affi liated with that athletic program to be
involved with that student until the student is fully enrolled
at the school.
Specifi c examples of impermissible contact include:
1) Contact or communication concerning potential enrollment
or athletic participation at the school, other than the initial
referral to school administration if approached by the family
or the student;
2) Contact concerning potential enrollment at the school which
is initiated by a coach or others with a connection to the
athletic program;
3) Contact by individuals (including the parent of a current
player) who might be interested in the school’s athletic
program that attempts to infl uence a student or his/her
parents;
4) Coaching, managing and or otherwise directing sportsspecifi
c athletic activities in which the non-enrolled student
is a participant outside of the scope and allowable contact
periods contained in Bylaw 25;
5) The use of school facilities, uniforms, transportation or
equipment including other “school team opportunities”,
such as tournaments and leagues;
6) High school exhibit and or promotion space or materials
specifi c to the schools’ athletic program or a specifi c athletic
team;
7) Attending grade school, junior high or middle school games
for the purpose of evaluating specifi c student-athletes, for the
purpose of promoting the member school’s athletic program,
or at a time when non permitted by Bylaw 25;
8) Contact prior to, during, or after scrimmages or contests at
elementary schools, middle and junior high schools except
where there is the same defi ned feeder pattern involving the
schools;
9) Requesting students, parents, boosters or alumni from a
school to discuss the merits of a school’s athletic program



Clear as mud!

[RunItUpTheGut]

If you would have read all of the post in the other thread, you would know that footballfever already posted the rules and has been discussing it ever since. I think everyone gets sick of hearing about this transfer crap year in and year out.

[Stardust]

^ Agreed. Everything above has already been discussed in full detail. I don't think anyone said anything different than what the rules state. Recruiting is allowed! Certain types of contact is not!

[#1 Blackcat Fan]

My interpretation is that if it is a feeder school it is ok. If not then its not ok. I'm also sure it could be interpreted several ways.

[IAM22]

If you would have read all of the post in the other thread, you would know that footballfever already posted the rules and has been discussing it ever since. I think everyone gets sick of hearing about this transfer crap year in and year out.

Well, I guess it is hard to read a thread that does not exist anymore.

[IAM22]

^ Agreed. Everything above has already been discussed in full detail. I don't think anyone said anything different than what the rules state. Recruiting is allowed! Certain types of contact is not!

Could you direct me to where it has been discussed in full detail?

[Stardust]

^ No idea, but I'm sure it's in either the HS or MS forums.

[RunItUpTheGut]

Could you direct me to where it has been discussed in full detail?

There have been several threads over recruiting over the past few weeks.
This one took me 30 seconds to find in the bball forum....
http://www.bluegrassrivals.com/forum/sho...534&page=2

As for the football one i was referring to it must have been deleted because its no longer there, but it went on and on and on.

[IAM22]

There have been several threads over recruiting over the past few weeks.
This one took me 30 seconds to find in the bball forum....
http://www.bluegrassrivals.com/forum/sho...534&page=2

As for the football one i was referring to it must have been deleted because its no longer there, but it went on and on and on.

The thread you linked has zero to do with what I was referencing in the thread I created. It contains no discussion on what can/cannot be done in respect to "attracting" student/athletes to a particular high school. The linked thread is nothing more than a bunch of hyberpole being posted for enjoyment with not one ounce of credible information. Just like your post in this thread, but thanks for trying.

[nky]

I'm confused about the point of this. All high schools in the state may "recruit" 8th graders to attend their school. Some schools do a better job than others -open houses in the winter and spring, interactive websites/use of social media, slick/high quality direct mailings, having "middle school" night at athletic events, dances for future students, and other creative ways to draw attention to what your school offers.

The stated KHSSA policy does not stop schools from doing any of these things.

2)What are permissible contacts by coaches, athletic directors and other individuals with a connection (direct or indirect) to the athletic
program or school?
Permissible contacts include:
1) Public high school representatives contacting students at feeder public schools (elementary, middle school, junior high school) where there is a defined feeder pattern;
2) Non-public school representatives contacting students at feeder non-public schools (elementary, middle school / junior high school) where there is defined feeder pattern;
3) A representative of the school may initiate a meeting with students at a school that is defined as a feeder school or meet with students who are zoned to attend that school the following year. This visit shall be cleared by principals of both schools and shall not be specific to athletic opportunities; and
4) Any student or family or individual that contacts a coach about attending a school where he or she coaches shall be informed that they need to be referred to the principal, admissions department or guidance department if they have an interest. Any meeting with coaches regarding athletes or prospective athletes or their families shall be at the request

[nky]

If you would have read all of the post in the other thread, you would know that footballfever already posted the rules and has been discussing it ever since. I think everyone gets sick of hearing about this transfer crap year in and year out.

Well, I guess it is hard to read a thread that does not exist anymore.

Could you direct me to where it has been discussed in full detail?

^ No idea, but I'm sure it's in either the HS or MS forums.

There was a thread here in high school football dealing with Johnson Central(i believe) and some of the things that their coach does or have done. It was here toward the end of last week or over the weekend but appears to be gone now, probably because some of the things being posted approached certain lines.[Image: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/w...dHorse.gif]

[RunItUpTheGut]

^
The thread i was referring to earlier was a thread titled "how does jim matney recruit so well" or something of that nature.
The thread has been deleted but IAM22 is prolly butthurt and wants to keep seeing it get talked about.
It's already been discussed, and threads like these are nothing but bad for the site as it makes it out to be a simple rumor mill and nothing about the skanks that hang around topix 24 hrsa day. It's setting itself up for failure and the creators of these types of threads know that when they start them.

[IAM22]

^
The thread i was referring to earlier was a thread titled "how does jim matney recruit so well" or something of that nature.
The thread has been deleted but IAM22 is prolly butthurt and wants to keep seeing it get talked about.
It's already been discussed, and threads like these are nothing but bad for the site as it makes it out to be a simple rumor mill and nothing about the skanks that hang around topix 24 hrsa day. It's setting itself up for failure and the creators of these types of threads know that when they start them.

WOW, I am shocked that you made a post in a thread that has zero to do with the thread. You act like you are worried about the site getting a bad name, then you use a term like butthurt. That makes sense. Stop trolling.

[RunItUpTheGut]

^
lol at this guy.
Yes im worried about Whitley getting a bad name because of the ridicolous athletes we win state championships with every year but ill get over it.

The only thing it has to do with is this stuff gets old.
Its more about people like you wanting to give some school a bad name and continue on tarnishing reputations. Theres no place for it here, its not good for the site.

[IAM22]

I am trying to figure out why some feel that there is no rule against recruiting. From what I understand to be true is schools can only initiate contact with students within their feeder district. Now the argument that schools have open houses for students and yes they do. But they can only be advertised publicly not to a particular student. They are only permitted to send out direct mailings to students in their feeder district. For example, Scott County cannot send anything in the mail to a student in Fayette County Schools to attend an open house at SC. But they can put up a billboard advertising it in Fayette County. Scott County can send mail to all students in SC. A
coach can only initiate contact with students in their feeder schools.


Am I wrong in my line of thinking and interpretation?


Look I am just trying to have an adult discussion and learn more about this rule. I thought this site would be good to get opinions from people around the state on different topics.

[IAM22]

^
lol at this guy.
Yes im worried about Whitley getting a bad name because of the ridicolous athletes we win state championships with every year but ill get over it.

The only thing it has to do with is this stuff gets old.
Its more about people like you wanting to give some school a bad name and continue on tarnishing reputations. Theres no place for it here, its not good for the site.

Can you understand what you are reading? I have not mentioned one team, teams, and/or players at all. I do not care to here about teams or players with respect to this topic, it is not relevant to the thread.

Now, I do agree with you that there is no place for rumors with regards to this topic; it can bring harm whether true or not.

Also, I could careless about what team you associate yourself with, just another example of you trolling for a response. I am now done with you and your trolling, you are not a big enough fish to keep, I releasing you back into the shallow end.

[nky]

What constitutes a feeder system? It's about choice and the parents willingness to get their child to the school of their choice. Here in Northern Kentucky we have 19 football playing scores with in a 45 minute drive, all of them permit non district students to attend.

[Football1]

To my knowledge KHSAA has no say over Middle School sports in general. I called them once years ago on a matter related to a MS event and they told me they had no authority over MS athletics in any regard.

Thus, I would imagine whatever rules exist on recruiting players or not to high schools would not include recruiting 8th graders.

[IAM22]

What constitutes a feeder system? It's about choice and the parents willingness to get their child to the school of their choice. Here in Northern Kentucky we have 19 football playing scores with in a 45 minute drive, all of them permit non district students to attend.

I do not believe that Boone County allows out of district students unless their parent in employed by the Boone County school system full time.

The question is a very easy one to answer, according to the KHSAA. According to the KHSAA website, a feeder school means that both schools involved are under the same Board of Education and a defined pattern is established. Since you are in NKY an easy example is that all Catholic schools are under the Diocese so all are under the same Board. So, Notre Dame may have contact with students that attend catholic schools in the Diocese, but they cannot have contact with say students enrolled at Ludlow Independent.Another, example would be Highlands cannot initiate contact with a student that has a residency outside of their school boards zone. Yet, another example, Beechwood cannot initiate contact with someone from say Covington. However the students may meet first with Beechwoods administration to get information or ask questions. After they are enrolled they can then and only then speak to a member from the athletic dept.


According to Bylaw Case BL-10-4:
Anyone affiliated within the athletic dept. cannot have any contact until that student is enrolled, unless they are in a feeder school. If the student initates contact with a member of the athletic dept, that member is to immediatly refer them to the administration. Anything beyond giving them the initial referral is not permitted.

So it seems that if a coach or someone from the athletic dept has contact with a student outside of a designated feeder school they are violating the rules. At least that is how I read it but I have been wrong before.


I will say this again, I am only talking about general interpretation of the rule, to get others opinions or interpretations, and to discuss what ever similarities or differences seen by others.

Please nothing about any specific player, school, and/or coach that is not why I started this thread. As one poster said earlier, throwing out rumors just to get a response is bad for this site and is bush league. If you know of a violation contact the KHSAA but please do not throw it out here to see if it will stick!!!

I want to apologize to anyone that thinks my intentions are less than what I have posted. I assure you that my intent is genuine into seeking adult level discussion/debate on this topic.

Thanks!

[nky]

again it's free choice. Do you think the court's would stop a parent from sending their child to a school of choice?

[sstack]

I do not believe that Boone County allows out of district students unless their parent in employed by the Boone County school system full time.

The question is a very easy one to answer, according to the KHSAA. According to the KHSAA website, a feeder school means that both schools involved are under the same Board of Education and a defined pattern is established. Since you are in NKY an easy example is that all Catholic schools are under the Diocese so all are under the same Board. So, Notre Dame may have contact with students that attend catholic schools in the Diocese, but they cannot have contact with say students enrolled at Ludlow Independent.Another, example would be Highlands cannot initiate contact with a student that has a residency outside of their school boards zone. Yet, another example, Beechwood cannot initiate contact with someone from say Covington. However the students may meet first with Beechwoods administration to get information or ask questions. After they are enrolled they can then and only then speak to a member from the athletic dept.


According to Bylaw Case BL-10-4:
Anyone affiliated within the athletic dept. cannot have any contact until that student is enrolled, unless they are in a feeder school. If the student initates contact with a member of the athletic dept, that member is to immediatly refer them to the administration. Anything beyond giving them the initial referral is not permitted.

So it seems that if a coach or someone from the athletic dept has contact with a student outside of a designated feeder school they are violating the rules. At least that is how I read it but I have been wrong before.


I will say this again, I am only talking about general interpretation of the rule, to get others opinions or interpretations, and to discuss what ever similarities or differences seen by others.

Please nothing about any specific player, school, and/or coach that is not why I started this thread. As one poster said earlier, throwing out rumors just to get a response is bad for this site and is bush league. If you know of a violation contact the KHSAA but please do not throw it out here to see if it will stick!!!

I want to apologize to anyone that thinks my intentions are less than what I have posted. I assure you that my intent is genuine into seeking adult level discussion/debate on this topic.

Thanks!

Your above quote, I do not believe is correct. My daughter lives in Ft Thomas, goes to Highlands MS, and has received mailings from NCC for the last three years. She plays soccer with several teammates who will attend NCC and they want her to go to NCC with them. Her friends families are the ones who gave the school her name and address during their weeks leading up to their open house week. I am sure there is nothing wrong with this.

[nky]

^there isn't

[IAM22]

again it's free choice. Do you think the court's would stop a parent from sending their child to a school of choice?

Yes I I do. If the school said no.

Attending a school and being eligible for athletics are two different things.

[IAM22]

again it's free choice. Do you think the court's would stop a parent from sending their child to a school of choice?

There is only free choice to go to a different school district if the school will admit you. I do not believe that a court would force a school system to admit an out of district student into its system that it turned away.

Boone County will not let anyone outside of their district to attend unless their parent is an employee.

[RunItUpTheGut]

^
Depends on the reciprical agreement.

[IAM22]

Your above quote, I do not believe is correct. My daughter lives in Ft Thomas, goes to Highlands MS, and has received mailings from NCC for the last three years. She plays soccer with several teammates who will attend NCC and they want her to go to NCC with them. Her friends families are the ones who gave the school her name and address during their weeks leading up to their open house week. I am sure there is nothing wrong with this.

This is exactly the type of post I was looking for (outside of the names of the schools) when I started this thread. It also, shows how things are interpreted differently.

Since you shared your experience, I will share my in regards to this situation.

When my daughter completed public school 8th grade I contacted the local catholic school. Now, we knew for a very long time that she would be attending this high school. The day after she was promoted I called one of the coach's of the sport she would be trying out for. After telling her who my daughter was and that she was coming to their school in the fall, the coach asked me what parish school she went to. When I told the coach that she went to a public school, the coach IMMEDIATELY told me that we could no longer talk about the school or sports until officially enrolled in that school. I was then directed to the school administration to become enrolled.

Now, during her freshman year I volunteered to get the message out about "grade school night." I was given VERY specific directions on who and how I can/could contact kids. I could only take flyers to the parish schools. I could only send direct mailings to parish students and kids that have attended a camp in the past. Those that are out of parish and attended a camp, during that camp they must have provided contact information and checked the box that they wanted to receive information through the mail. I understood the parish school kids part but not the out of parish school kids part. Specifically how we could only contact kids that attended the camp. It was explained to me that because they only advertised for the camp publicly(newspaper, billboards) that they were not targeting a specific students but all students. So, just like a public legal notice, so to speak, attending was open to everyone. Then the ones who chose to the attended camp were then filled out a questionnaire. Including in that were forms they were asked if they would like additional information.

I continued to organize "grade school night" all four years for that sport and filled this role for years following my daughters graduation. Until we moved from the area. These instructions were given out every year regardless of how many years I worked on this event.

This is how I was "educated" on the process, right or wrong. This is how I understand it to be when I see the rules. I read it as, recruiting is never permitted and that contact is permitted at times with restrictions.

[IAM22]

^
Depends on the reciprical agreement.

A reciprocal agreement only pertains to state money being shared or following a student to a district outside of their "home" district. It has nothing to do with accepting students or not.

Since you said earlier what school you are affiliated with I will use that as an example. If your are in Whitley's school district and want to go to another school outside of your district. You chose Pike Central and Pike Central decides you are worthy enough to attend their school(j/k). But you are accepted now if their is a reciprocal agreement your state funding will go to PC. If their is no agreement, you can still attend PC, but Whitley would keep your state money. Then PC would then expect you to pay the costs, out of your pocket, to educate you at PC.

Also, say Whitley gets $7500 from the state and PC gets $9500 from the state and they have a reciprocal agreement in place. When you go to PC you will have to pay the $2000 difference.

[sstack]

This is exactly the type of post I was looking for (outside of the names of the schools) when I started this thread. It also, shows how things are interpreted differently.

Since you shared your experience, I will share my in regards to this situation.

When my daughter completed public school 8th grade I contacted the local catholic school. Now, we knew for a very long time that she would be attending this high school. The day after she was promoted I called one of the coach's of the sport she would be trying out for. After telling her who my daughter was and that she was coming to their school in the fall, the coach asked me what parish school she went to. When I told the coach that she went to a public school, the coach IMMEDIATELY told me that we could no longer talk about the school or sports until officially enrolled in that school. I was then directed to the school administration to become enrolled.

Now, during her freshman year I volunteered to get the message out about "grade school night." I was given VERY specific directions on who and how I can/could contact kids. I could only take flyers to the parish schools. I could only send direct mailings to parish students and kids that have attended a camp in the past. Those that are out of parish and attended a camp, during that camp they must have provided contact information and checked the box that they wanted to receive information through the mail. I understood the parish school kids part but not the out of parish school kids part. Specifically how we could only contact kids that attended the camp. It was explained to me that because they only advertised for the camp publicly(newspaper, billboards) that they were not targeting a specific students but all students. So, just like a public legal notice, so to speak, attending was open to everyone. Then the ones who chose to the attended camp were then filled out a questionnaire. Including in that were forms they were asked if they would like additional information.

I continued to organize "grade school night" all four years for that sport and filled this role for years following my daughters graduation. Until we moved from the area. These instructions were given out every year regardless of how many years I worked on this event.

This is how I was "educated" on the process, right or wrong. This is how I understand it to be when I see the rules. I read it as, recruiting is never permitted and that contact is permitted at times with restrictions.

So you are saying that you think what I shared would break the rules? What if we attend a catholic church (just the church not the school) that is a feeder school?

[nky]

There is only free choice to go to a different school district if the school will admit you. I do not believe that a court would force a school system to admit an out of district student into its system that it turned away.

Boone County will not let anyone outside of their district to attend unless their parent is an employee.

Boone county's lost I guess. Maybe that's why Beechwood or CovCath has the success they have?

[Catfan09]

Does Non-Domestic students only apply to Foreign Exchange students or would any student have to be ruled eligible regardless of Varsity play if they came from another country?