[TheRealThing]

REUTERS---
"Hundreds of Iranian troops have arrived in Syria to join a major ground offensive in support of President Bashar al-Assad's government, Lebanese sources said on Thursday, a sign the civil war is turning still more regional and global in scope.

Russian warplanes, in a second day of strikes, bombed a camp run by rebels trained by the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency, the group's commander said, putting Moscow and Washington on opposing sides in a Middle East conflict for the first time since the Cold War."
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/0...1O20151002

It is woeful and sobering to watch our plastic President and his Sec of Defense try to paint a happy face on the firestorm brewing in Syria. Both are condescending and concerned for the well being of Putin and corps owing to the dangerous no-win position they've gotten themselves into. :please: And all the while offering help from their big brother American buddies from across the pond. Who by the way, just got served in epic fashion by said Iranian and Russian leadership. Would this be a good point to mention the Iranian nuke deal which is still pending and, under which Obama envisions a reformed and greatly civilized Iran taking her place among the powers of the "global community?"

It must be grand to live in a world where reality is defined by speeches and rhetoric. However, it is high time certain US foreign policy makers get past one little sticking point. Putin and the Ayatollah use words as a mere smoke screen, while they put military 'legs' on their ambitious plans of regional domination, they're certainly not bound by them. I thought Kerry looked a little stressed standing there beside Sergey I. KISLYAK. It was pretty clear that Sergey was having none of his input. At some point all liberals will come similarly to an end of their rationalizations, and it will be about the same time that reality finally overtakes them.

How many really believe that Putin will vacate the Middle East after this deal in Syria is over with? In the classroom saying stuff like lead from behind sounds cool. The only problem with it is it doesn't work once one gets outside that classroom. And, I can't help but mention the Keystone Pipeline. We better put a rush on that one.

[Hoot Gibson]

It is going to take this country decades to repair the damage that Obama and his ilk have done to this country, and realistically we may not have that much time left. Whoever wins the presidency in 2016 will be inheriting a mess.

Russia is in Syria at the invitation of its sovereign government. The idea of toppling the Assad regime and arming rebels in Syria never made any sense. If we are going to topple any regime, it should be the regime whose leaders threaten the destruction of Israel and the U.S. on a regular basis. Iran is the single biggest state sponsor in the world and the traitor in the White House is making secret deals with the evil men who rule that country with an iron fist.

Calls by Hillary Clinton and Carly Fiorina to impose a no-fly zone in Syria are ridiculous. How would a no-fly zone in Syria, now that Russia is flying bombing missions there, be in our national interest? Intervening in Syria was a stupid idea when Obama drew his imaginary red line there, and it is even more stupid now.

If Obama had acted decisively to destroy ISIS in its infancy and ISIS had sought refuge in Syria, then it would have made since to have attacked ISIS strongholds in Syria. Assad would probably have welcomed U.S. assistance in ridding the country of ISIS.

Obama, Kerry, Clinton, Ash Carter, and the rest of the clowns that have undermined American foreign policy for the past seven years should be deported - even if that would require a Constitutional amendment, it would be the right thing to do. We have absolutely no credibility with our allies and that is something that cannot be fixed without drastic action and time that we may not have.

Putin and China are establishing a strong presence in the Middle East for the same reason that this country worked for decades to establish a strong presence there. Oil reserves are the only reason that any civilized country cares about the Middle East. Under Obama, the U.S. has gone from having a dominant position in the Middle East to becoming a laughingstock. An image of weakness and the ridicule that goes with it is very difficult to combat.

You imbeciles who are responsible for giving an anti-American president eight years to destroy U.S. foreign policy should stay home for the same period of time and allow your intellectual superiors an opportunity to fix the mess that you have created.

[64SUR]

Man you guys are wanting boots on the ground....unbelievable. :popcorn: uh oh now I'm in trouble.

[Hoot Gibson]

Man you guys are wanting boots on the ground....unbelievable. :popcorn: uh oh now I'm in trouble.

Who said so? Obama has screwed things up so badly in the Middle East, the best thing that he can do now is to spend the next year on the golf course and try not to do any more damage. Our military has no confidence in Obama's leadership and none of our allies trust him. Putting boots on the ground under the command of an anti-American moron would be a mistake.

[64SUR]

Who said so? Obama has screwed things up so badly in the Middle East, the best thing that he can do now is to spend the next year on the golf course and try not to do any more damage. Our military has no confidence in Obama's leadership and none of our allies trust him. Putting boots on the ground under the command of an anti-American moron would be a mistake.

Come on Hoot Gibson what do you want us to do in the middle east tell me what you would do. Our military is the best in the world we still have over 10,000 troops on the ground in Afghanistan. I want them out before my son your son or anybody else son or daughter fighting a war you Kant win. I beat my chest everyday when Bush Jr was president and I am going to do the same under President Obama. Peace brother alute:

[Hoot Gibson]

Come on Hoot Gibson what do you want us to do in the middle east tell me what you would do. Our military is the best in the world we still have over 10,000 troops on the ground in Afghanistan. I want them out before my son your son or anybody else son or daughter fighting a war you Kant win. I beat my chest everyday when Bush Jr was president and I am going to do the same under President Obama. Peace brother alute:

There is no substitute for leadership. I don't want to see our military involved in a war that it cannot win, and I certainly do not think that we could win a war with Russia or China with Obama in command. I am serious when I say that the best thing Obama could do for this country is to spend as much time golfing as possible for the next year. Actually, the best thing that he could do for the country would be to resign, effective yesterday, but he is not about to give up his free golf privileges.

Obama is a royal screw-up who has lost the respect of everybody with an IQ above room temperature. It's bad enough that our allies have lost their respect and trust of Obama, but the total lack of respect of Obama by this nation's enemies has put out troops in serious peril. Putin thinks Obama is a clown and he is absolutely correct in his assessment.

[TheRealThing]

Come on Hoot Gibson what do you want us to do in the middle east tell me what you would do. Our military is the best in the world we still have over 10,000 troops on the ground in Afghanistan. I want them out before my son your son or anybody else son or daughter fighting a war you Kant win. I beat my chest everyday when Bush Jr was president and I am going to do the same under President Obama. Peace brother alute:

Oh I agree, the Middle East is a mess. However, so are the US affairs of State as compared to George W's administration. Would you be honest and admit at least that much? Seriously, sober up and swear off the Kool Aid for a while and let's be honest. Obviously the US suffered the attack of 911, other than that, the worst thing we saw during the Bush era was a temporary spike in gas prices which settled back down in a relatively short time, and the loss of jobs owing to a GLOBAL economic downturn. And, I hear you with regard to US boots on the ground. Operation Desert Storm, enforcement of the Iraq Resolution, Operation Enduring Freedom all were highly successful military actions under one Bush or another, with literally a mere handful of US casualties. Far more US soldiers have been either killed or maimed under Obama's command, than under W's. Why? Because of this administration's ridiculous rules of engagement. Our boys have their hands tied behind them from the time they get off the transport until they get back stateside.

But to address your question on what we could do in the Middle East at present. It's a good question in view of certain late breaking circumstances. Sort of like throwing flaming darts at a bee hive. The bees though always volatile, were pretty calm before being driven into a suicidal frenzy by this dart throwing administration. Remember the "Arab Spring?" I do, and I remember Obama calling for the ouster of the leaders of Egypt, Libya, Syria and others. As I have mentioned on here a number of times, there was once something attached to US Foreign Policy in the Middle East known as "stability in the region." And whether folks will admit this or not, we had relative stability in the Middle Eastern Region at the time W exited office. I mean, you get these guys thrown out and what replaces them? How many people have died over there as the result of the Arab Spring and how many more are there to come?

War is a dangerous business, none the less America had Iraq and Afghanistan stabilized at the time of George W's exit. Joe Biden and his boss were blowing their horn about Afghanistan until recently. But, we pulled out our troops just so Obama could look good.

George W 2007--- “I know some in Washington would like us to start leaving Iraq now. To begin withdrawing before our commanders tell us we’re ready would be dangerous for Iraq, for the region and for the United States. It would mean surrendering the future of Iraq to al-Qaeda. It would mean that we’d be risking mass killings on a horrific scale. It would mean we’d allow the terrorists to establish a safe haven in Iraq to replace the one they lost in Afghanistan. It would mean we’d be increasing the probability that American troops would have to return at some later date to confront an enemy that is even more dangerous.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/...story.html

The horror to add to his prophetic and sage advice represented by what's going on I Afghanistan right now, is something that even W didn't expect. I don't want boots on the ground either but, one does not shirk his responsibilities just because he gets "tired." Folks might get tired of making their house payment too, but it's a responsibility they must continue to meet if they want to go on living in their homes. This whole deal about the citizenry being war weary is stupid and naïve beyond belief. Wars visit our doorstep at sundry times, and to remain a free people we must fight them. Weary or not.

[RunItUpTheGut]

Do one of the two following....

1. Go over there and obliterate everyone and everything and take all the resources for ourselves and not give one hot damn about anyone there.

2. Stay away from the middle east, let them figure it out, stay home and drill baby drill and mine the hell out of everything.

That's the only two options you have left that aren't a burden on our country.

The problem is with the democratic socialist we have in office, we have to be tooooo nice to go take something for ourselves and retain the thought that we need to be diplomatic with countries that don't want to be diplomatic.
And two, we cant drill here for the current liberal fad of global warming, or cooling, or whatever its doing now.

[TheRealThing]

Do one of the two following....

1. Go over there and obliterate everyone and everything and take all the resources for ourselves and not give one hot damn about anyone there.

2. Stay away from the middle east, let them figure it out, stay home and drill baby drill and mine the hell out of everything.

That's the only two options you have left that aren't a burden on our country.

The problem is with the democratic socialist we have in office, we have to be tooooo nice to go take something for ourselves and retain the thought that we need to be diplomatic with countries that don't want to be diplomatic.
And two, we cant drill here for the current liberal fad of global warming, or cooling, or whatever its doing now.

IMHO, the Democratic socialist of whom you speak doesn't really care one way or the other about the citizens of Iraq or elsewhere when it comes to getting oil. As you mention in the last sentence, it is more about Global Warming. Which, no matter how much or how strongly these bozos double down with their doctored evidence and reports of doom, is not real.

I would compare Global Warming adherents to the those in bondage to Voodoo or the imaginary spell of a witch doctor. It's just a feeling really, and as such, those who experience this feeling will do just about anything to give the world proof that the activities of man are killing the planet. God in His infinite wisdom knows everything there is to know. In addition to being all-knowing, He is Omnipresent, and exists therefore in the past, present and future, simultaneously. He knows all of our ends, He knew what the condition the world would be in during our time onward to the day in which He will put a stop to the insanity.

The earth was created for man, replete with everything he would need to build and power his environment located either in the ground, growing on the surface, or in the great bodies of water of this planet. The oceans are the great cleansers of the planet and despite the gloomy predictions on the Discovery Channel, the ozone will be fine. Let me give you my idea of peace of mind where it comes to Global Warming. Genesis 8:22 (KJV)
22 While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.

It is the time immediately following the great flood. And our Creator, speaking to us from across the ages, assures us that He will never destroy life again. In fact from that day forward all things will continue as they always have. Planting and harvesting, winter and summer, hot days and cold days and day and night. Global Warming is out of the imagination of men but, more men of science disagree with it than those who support it.

At any rate, Obama thinks he is the savior of mankind. Ironically, hell would freeze over long before he would ok the Keystone Pipeline. And let's not parse around, he is anti-coal and anti-fossil fuels.

[RunItUpTheGut]

^
Global Warming is no more than Evolution.

A THEORY.

Not a fact.

[TheRealThing]

^
Global Warming is no more than Evolution.

A THEORY.

Not a fact.

Exactly. And like the theory of evolution, global warming is a concept from the minds of men, which was dreamed up in order to provide an alternative for people who find God's truth, to be as Al Gore ironically puts it, inconvenient. Darwin himself mentioned evolution as a salve for the conscience, as no unrepentant man wants to admit or think about the fact that he will someday face God. The concept of Global warming was born out of similar circumstances but in both cases, the evidence which supposedly validates the theories is either misapplied, errant, or manufactured.

[RunItUpTheGut]

I was watching Netflix the other night and was in the mood for some comedy.
After looking threw all of them, the only thing that looked somewhat interesting was a Katt Williams routine.
This is definitely not something I usually watch with so much cussing and black comedy, however as I watched and chuckled, he turned to evolution. Here you have a guy who you would think would be the last to side with Christians, because the way he preforms, youd never know he was one, but I think most people understand and can accept that words are just words.
Anyways, he stopped and got serious for a minute and somehow got on Evolution. This big liberal (use to be big time Obama supporter before he seen how much hes screwed up) said it perfectly.

He said, so we come from these ugly monkeys. They want us too believe there is no God, and that we came from chimps and all of us developed from them. He said so what happened to the chimps who are still chimps? Are they the retarded chimps that wasn't smart enough? lol. I got a good kick out of that as he said it with a harsher tone, but it was good enough for me.

Things like that get me. An atheist number one objection to a higher power is that nothing could just create this and nobody has complete control and its all a fairytale. However, they never look at some of the ridiculous horse manure they come up with and think about how stupid it sounds.

[TheRealThing]

"Yesterday afternoon, U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Samantha Power marched to Twitter to proclaim: “We call on Russia to immediately cease attacks on Syrian oppo[sition and] civilians.” Along with that decree, she posted a statement from the U.S. and several of its closest authoritarian allies — including Saudi Arabia, Qatar and the U.K. — warning Russia that civilian casualties “will only fuel more extremism and radicalization.” https://theintercept.com/2015/10/03/one-...ama-ended/

I've been hearing Ash Carter and President Obama going on and on about their fears that Russia is making a big mistake in Syria. We wouldn't want to see our good friend Putin getting himself in some sort of bind you know, LOL. We've offered over and over to provide targeting guidance and operational guidance to the Russians whom this administration claims are in way over their heads. For example, it is very easy to make a mistake and innocent civilians or public facilities could become collateral damage. Then the very next day to prove we are the big boys on the block, the US ups and bombs a hospital in Afghanistan. :igiveup:

[Hoot Gibson]

Setting aside the credibility of Samanthaa Powers' tweet, how impotent does this country look on the world stage when a senior diplomat resorts to Social media to deliver her critique of Putin's Middle East strategy?

[TheRealThing]

Setting aside the credibility of Samanthaa Powers' tweet, how impotent does this country look on the world stage when a senior diplomat resorts to Social media to deliver her critique of Putin's Middle East strategy?

I would have never believed that the beach bully could somehow become the 90 pound weakling, but I have watched the whole thing go down right before my eyes. Imagine if someone drafted Don Knotts to be Speaker of the House. Suddenly the lovable moron with those wild ideas everyone loved to laugh at, would have the power, unquestionable power, to see them through. Which BTW, would strip the humor out of the situation immediately. Kind of like the way I would envision a horrified Roman Senate once a clear view of the evil of Caligula had set in.

This administration is overrun with draftees from the heretofore unemployed ranks of the Ivy League. Rabid liberal chipmunks, still wet behind the ears, and we conservatives to our horror, had to watch them transform college spawned liberal blather into reality. The full faith and force of the US Government is a formidable engine. And, as alluded to above, it has been anything but funny since Obama was handed the keys to the bus. Remember what he had to say when it was confirmed that Russian troops were invading the Crimean?
EXCERPT---
The Obama administration has responded (to the news), so far, in a manner that is pathetic even by its own standards. After issuing stern warnings to Russia not to invade Crimea, the administration, confronted with the actual presence of Russian troops on the ground, philosophized about whether it was really an invasion, suggesting that a more apt term might be an “uncontested arrival.” Former chess champion Garry Kasparov reacted with stunned indignation: http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/20...y-hour.php

President Obama himself, having delivered a limp warning to Vladimir Putin, decamped for a meeting of the Democratic National Committee, where he told a cheering crowd: “Well, it’s Friday, it’s after 5:00. So this is officially happy hour with the Democratic Party.”---BARACK OBAMA Feb 28, 2014 Well, after taking turns pinching each other to make sure they weren't dreaming, Putin and the Ayatollah have decided to become invasion partners in the Middle East. It will only get worse.

IMO, Obama was elected based on the promises he made to the voter, offering them every imaginable perk. When something goes against him even today he figures some way to buy off his critics. Presently the US is teetering on the threshold of financial, Constitutional/Political and military ruin. With the end of the Obama era mercifully in sight, waiting in the wings to fill his shoes is Hillary Clinton. Who I believe is going through the Obama playbook page by page. And among other things, she's already making insane promises to provide things like free college for all. Which translated would go something like this; "calling all Dems, if I'm elected I promise to force you to pay for everybody else's kids to go to the college of their choice, and I'm just getting started!"

I guarantee you they'll bust the doors down at the polls trying to get in there.

[TheRealThing]

I haven't heard any speculation, but it would seem to me that we Americans had better enjoy the recently lowered gasoline prices. Once Russia reestablishes itself firmly back in the Middle East you can bet that the Strait of Hormuz will once again be in the news. As Russian jets and warships have already made their presence known in the area. The coming coalition of power then in the region, would include Iran, Iraq, Syria, Russia and I would not think that Yemen will be far behind. Leaving our Saudi Arabian allies bereft of meaningful support and the odd man out.

That gush of oil coming through the strait will cost the US dearly at that point. But hey, who need the XL Pipeline, right? Well, not to despair, at least the rabid libs will have something to cheer about when gas prices go up.

[TheRealThing]

Emphasizing post #15 and onward. (Though the whole thread is applicable)

Well, Iran has really been testing the limits of US resolve in the Persian Gulf. This stuff is not at all hard to predict, and it is not at all that difficult to see why the players originally mentioned have flexed their muscles more and more. We'll be extremely fortunate to pull out of our military nosedive and level off before we get pushed back to Pearl Harbor. And that is in the case that Trump is elected. If it's Hill, it's a done deal.

[The Urban Sombrero]

REUTERS---
"Hundreds of Iranian troops have arrived in Syria to join a major ground offensive in support of President Bashar al-Assad's government, Lebanese sources said on Thursday, a sign the civil war is turning still more regional and global in scope.

Russian warplanes, in a second day of strikes, bombed a camp run by rebels trained by the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency, the group's commander said, putting Moscow and Washington on opposing sides in a Middle East conflict for the first time since the Cold War."
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/0...1O20151002

It is woeful and sobering to watch our plastic President and his Sec of Defense try to paint a happy face on the firestorm brewing in Syria. Both are condescending and concerned for the well being of Putin and corps owing to the dangerous no-win position they've gotten themselves into. :please: And all the while offering help from their big brother American buddies from across the pond. Who by the way, just got served in epic fashion by said Iranian and Russian leadership. Would this be a good point to mention the Iranian nuke deal which is still pending and, under which Obama envisions a reformed and greatly civilized Iran taking her place among the powers of the "global community?"

It must be grand to live in a world where reality is defined by speeches and rhetoric. However, it is high time certain US foreign policy makers get past one little sticking point. Putin and the Ayatollah use words as a mere smoke screen, while they put military 'legs' on their ambitious plans of regional domination, they're certainly not bound by them. I thought Kerry looked a little stressed standing there beside Sergey I. KISLYAK. It was pretty clear that Sergey was having none of his input. At some point all liberals will come similarly to an end of their rationalizations, and it will be about the same time that reality finally overtakes them.

How many really believe that Putin will vacate the Middle East after this deal in Syria is over with? In the classroom saying stuff like lead from behind sounds cool. The only problem with it is it doesn't work once one gets outside that classroom. And, I can't help but mention the Keystone Pipeline. We better put a rush on that one.

George W. Bush envisioned a democratic Iraq, the cool, babbling brook of peace running all through. The Middle East is a messy place.

With that said, an alliance between Iran, Russia, and China (were it to grow) portends ominously for the West. I think President Reagan's "Peace through Strength" is a tried and true policy. Vladimir Putin is KGB in 21st century suits, in my view. He is intent on re-establishing Russia as a super power. If DJT wins, Putin will test him. HRC is more hawkish than President Obama. If she wins, there will be growing ice, in my view.

[The Urban Sombrero]

I haven't heard any speculation, but it would seem to me that we Americans had better enjoy the recently lowered gasoline prices. Once Russia reestablishes itself firmly back in the Middle East you can bet that the Strait of Hormuz will once again be in the news. As Russian jets and warships have already made their presence known in the area. The coming coalition of power then in the region, would include Iran, Iraq, Syria, Russia and I would not think that Yemen will be far behind. Leaving our Saudi Arabian allies bereft of meaningful support and the odd man out.

That gush of oil coming through the strait will cost the US dearly at that point. But hey, who need the XL Pipeline, right? Well, not to despair, at least the rabid libs will have something to cheer about when gas prices go up.

By the way, TRT, check out support for Hitler before and after he invaded Rhineland. There was much more afoot than simply promising goodies.

Saudi Arabia may well turn out more terrorists than any other ME country. The US had a chance in the 70's to carve out a more 'in the long run" energy policy. Both parties kicked the can down the road. Circa 2016, the way I see it, we are going to have to develop our domestic potential, while we continue to move in the areas of alternate energy. It's not either/or, it's both/and.

[Bob Seger]

By the way, TRT, check out support for Hitler before and after he invaded Rhineland. There was much more afoot than simply promising goodies.

Saudi Arabia may well turn out more terrorists than any other ME country. The US had a chance in the 70's to carve out a more 'in the long run" energy policy. Both parties kicked the can down the road. Circa 2016, the way I see it, we are going to have to develop our domestic potential, while we continue to move in the areas of alternate energy. It's not either/or, it's both/and.

I agree, but it's hard to do that when the wacko left fights everything that is fossil fuel related, tooth and toe nail.

[TheRealThing]

George W. Bush envisioned a democratic Iraq, the cool, babbling brook of peace running all through. The Middle East is a messy place.

With that said, an alliance between Iran, Russia, and China (were it to grow) portends ominously for the West. I think President Reagan's "Peace through Strength" is a tried and true policy. Vladimir Putin is KGB in 21st century suits, in my view. He is intent on re-establishing Russia as a super power. If DJT wins, Putin will test him. HRC is more hawkish than President Obama. If she wins, there will be growing ice, in my view.

Well, Obama shot that one in the head now didn't he?


Actually I believe this idea that Hillary is more of a hawk than Obama is absurd. Yes she voted to invade Iraq and then lied her head off about it, but, past that it's been crickets. If she wins, all those crawfish in he state department will need to be fitted for turbos. Cause we'll be backing up like 60. Not to mention kissing up. More and more people are coming forward each day to add their names to the list of those who predict the end of the US should she win.

[TheRealThing]

By the way, TRT, check out support for Hitler before and after he invaded Rhineland. There was much more afoot than simply promising goodies.

Saudi Arabia may well turn out more terrorists than any other ME country. The US had a chance in the 70's to carve out a more 'in the long run" energy policy. Both parties kicked the can down the road. Circa 2016, the way I see it, we are going to have to develop our domestic potential, while we continue to move in the areas of alternate energy. It's not either/or, it's both/and.

I agree, but it's hard to do that when the wacko left fights everything that is fossil fuel related, tooth and toe nail.

I know at least one who'd be a natural for wind power. nicker:

[The Urban Sombrero]

Well, Obama shot that one in the head now didn't he?


Actually I believe this idea that Hillary is more of a hawk than Obama is absurd. Yes she voted to invade Iraq and then lied her head off about it, but, past that it's been crickets. If she wins, all those crawfish in he state department will need to be fitted for turbos. Cause we'll be backing up like 60. Not to mention kissing up. More and more people are coming forward each day to add their names to the list of those who predict the end of the US should she win.

Actually, I think she is more hawkish than President Obama. In fact, it was a constant theme that Bernie supporters drummed.

The United States will not end if HRC wins the Presidency, nor if DJT wins the Presidency. Unless Christ returns.

[TheRealThing]

By the way, TRT, check out support for Hitler before and after he invaded Rhineland. There was much more afoot than simply promising goodies.

Saudi Arabia may well turn out more terrorists than any other ME country. The US had a chance in the 70's to carve out a more 'in the long run" energy policy. Both parties kicked the can down the road. Circa 2016, the way I see it, we are going to have to develop our domestic potential, while we continue to move in the areas of alternate energy. It's not either/or, it's both/and.

No, not really. He had to get to power first before all that could take foot. That took the backing of the people, which he got through promises and shenanigans.

[The Urban Sombrero]

I know at least one who'd be a natural for wind power. nicker:

I thought that was a good one.

[The Urban Sombrero]

No, not really. He had to get to power first before all that could take foot. That took the backing of the people, which he got through promises and shenanigans.

Eh, that history isn't exactly accurate, though for purposes of your position, it would be convenient if it was.

[TheRealThing]

Eh, that history isn't exactly accurate, though for purposes of your position, it would be convenient if it was.

You always find a way to run the discussion into a liberal rat hole. About a year ago I called out an obvious threat to American sea power in the Persian Gulf. Under the Obama doctrine, we always tuck our nuclear fleet's tails, and defer to thug nations such as Iran who are our sworn enemies, replete with death to America day. The Middle East was a relatively stable place as W left office. We had already invested the money for the military infrastructure necessary to support our presence there in the form of bases, (air and naval) as well as the equipment we ultimately just abandoned and ISIS commandeered, and well established logistical lines of support. Now, I know there in La-La Land liberals spread tablecloths on idyllic pastures of perfectly cut grass upon which unicorns play under fluffy clouds and rainbows. I got that. But in the real world an able and highly trained military pays high dividends in real terms in our interactions among the nations.

We really needed to maintain those bases and train our military personnel over there in the Middle East. But as I said, we abdicated the throne to Russia, and in so doing, lost the very theater in which we had just won so many stunning victories. We walked away from something a few years ago that today, no amount of money could ever re-buy. A viable military presence in the region that served to provide the world stability and the place to safely train our troops and maintain a much needed presence, and flushed Trillions of dollars in US Treasure and investment is so doing. Then liberals have the cheek to gripe about the debt and say they had to find a way to pay for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. They (Obama and the chipmunks) snatched defeat out of the jaws of victory. And if I might add, though there was always a danger posed by IED's, if our hands were not perpetually tied behind our backs through ridiculous terms of engagement constraints, our actual casualty rates would have been acceptably low. But no, Obama had said they were coming home and if it meant destabilizing the entire Middle East and making the world's most formidable military look like bozos, then that's the way the cookie crumbles. They came home and the region once at peace is now ablaze.

The same thing only more ambitious in scope, is happening in the South China Sea. Obama handed Iraq back to a very tenuous 'state', and as a consequence it lapsed into chaos and morphed into a quasi Caliphate under his watch. Russia is moving to regain some of it's losses due to the collapse of the USSR, and China is building a military force that already poses a significant threat to the US (a US which is determined to downsize her military and nuclear deterrent below joke status BTW) should they be so inclined. Such is the legacy of the supremely naïve and we may be about to compound the lunacy by handing the title of commanderette-in-chief to an old woman who wants to give full blown socialism a go, and thinks 'it's just time' for a girl to be president. :igiveup:

[The Urban Sombrero]

You always find a way to run the discussion into a liberal rat hole. About a year ago I called out an obvious threat to American sea power in the Persian Gulf. Under the Obama doctrine, we always tuck our nuclear fleet's tails, and defer to thug nations such as Iran who are our sworn enemies, replete with death to America day. The Middle East was a relatively stable place as W left office. We had already invested the money for the military infrastructure necessary to support our presence there in the form of bases, (air and naval) as well as the equipment we ultimately just abandoned and ISIS commandeered, and well established logistical lines of support. Now, I know there in La-La Land liberals spread tablecloths on idyllic pastures of perfectly cut grass upon which unicorns play under fluffy clouds and rainbows. I got that. But in the real world an able and highly trained military pays high dividends in real terms in our interactions among the nations.

We really needed to maintain those bases and train our military personnel over there in the Middle East. But as I said, we abdicated the throne to Russia, and in so doing, lost the very theater in which we had just won so many stunning victories. We walked away from something a few years ago that today, no amount of money could ever re-buy. A viable military presence in the region that served to provide the world stability and the place to safely train our troops and maintain a much needed presence, and flushed Trillions of dollars in US Treasure and investment is so doing. Then liberals have the cheek to gripe about the debt and say they had to find a way to pay for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. They (Obama and the chipmunks) snatched defeat out of the jaws of victory. And if I might add, though there was always a danger posed by IED's, if our hands were not perpetually tied behind our backs through ridiculous terms of engagement constraints, our actual casualty rates would have been acceptably low. But no, Obama had said they were coming home and if it meant destabilizing the entire Middle East and making the world's most formidable military look like bozos, then that's the way the cookie crumbles. They came home and the region once at peace is now ablaze.

The same thing only more ambitious in scope, is happening in the South China Sea. Obama handed Iraq back to a very tenuous 'state', and as a consequence it lapsed into chaos and morphed into a quasi Caliphate under his watch. Russia is moving to regain some of it's losses due to the collapse of the USSR, and China is building a military force that already poses a significant threat to the US (a US which is determined to downsize her military and nuclear deterrent below joke status BTW) should they be so inclined. Such is the legacy of the supremely naïve and we may be about to compound the lunacy by handing the title of commanderette-in-chief to an old woman who wants to give full blown socialism a go, and thinks 'it's just time' for a girl to be president. :igiveup:

It is mistaken to assert that as President Bush 2 left office the ME was "relatively stable." One can't plant the seeds, walk away, then point fingers when the seeds turn out to be bad, and the garden is not as promised.

[TheRealThing]

It is mistaken to assert that as President Bush 2 left office the ME was "relatively stable." One can't plant the seeds, walk away, then point fingers when the seeds turn out to be bad, and the garden is not as promised.

Revisionist thinking if I ever saw it. In this case, W tilled the soil, planted the seeds, and with the garden coming along nicely, the world saw an abundance of the green sprouts of promise to brag about under his watch. In fact, there would surely be big red tomatoes ready for harvest by July 4th in the metaphorical sense.

But then the garden was turned over to a new tender and that new tender had a completely different rationale as to the best way to reap the fruits of all that hard labor. The irrigation was shut off, the gardeners were given pink slips and shown the door, new tractors and roto-tillers were left abandoned, barns full of fertilizer and farming implements of the highest quality and in vast quantities, were left with doors standing ajar. Even maintenance facilities replete tools and equipment were left, complete with stores of fuel and spare parts. But alas, the harvest could not reap itself and what little yield which managed to survive untended, was left to spoil in the burning desert.

Of course, the new gardener-in-chief spoke with great vitriol as he blamed his predecessor for the gardens' failure to produce fruit.

[Pick6]

Solution:

1) Embrace Fracking and be Energy Self Sufficient,
2) Get the hell out of the mid east,
3) Let Russia, Syria and Iran worry about refugees!

Thinking we could transform the mid east into Democracies has resulted in failure after failure with tremendous loss of life and treasure.

I agree with Trump. "Saddam was a bad guy, but he was good at killing terrorists." So shall Bashir!