[Beetle01]

Whats everyone's opinion here? DO you all think that Hussein didn't have any, or wasn't working on any type of programs to develop them?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25546334

[thecavemaster]

Whats everyone's opinion here? DO you all think that Hussein didn't have any, or wasn't working on any type of programs to develop them?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25546334

I would recommend the book Forever War by Dexter Filkins. He spent nearly five years in Afghanistan and Iraq as a war correspondent, moving in and out of war zones, the Green Zone, with soldiers, with Iraqis. I think Hussein, of course, wasn't above WMD's; however, I think his capacity for them had been demolished and that certain Iraqi leaders, often in exile, gave false information to US intelligence about WMD's with mixed motives.

[DevilsWin]

I would recommend the book Forever War by Dexter Filkins. He spent nearly five years in Afghanistan and Iraq as a war correspondent, moving in and out of war zones, the Green Zone, with soldiers, with Iraqis. I think Hussein, of course, wasn't above WMD's; however, I think his capacity for them had been demolished and that certain Iraqi leaders, often in exile, gave false information to US intelligence about WMD's with mixed motives.

Bingo!

[PHS#1]

no wmd then.... no wmd now....

[launchpad4]

I think that he didn't have them currently, but he clearly wasn't against having them or using them. The question of why we are in Iraq I believe is a mute point now. I think the only thing we can do now is win. People keep saying we need to leave but an example I always give is this: If you are in a football game and you were down at halftime, came out in the third quarter and took the lead, why would you forfeit in the fourth. I believe that its close to over, I may be wrong, but I do believe that we can pull out with a victory in the next year or two. Not ten , or one-hundred like libs keep saying.

[launchpad4]

Oh and PHS #1 gas is 1.62 a gallon when Bush is leaving office, so the picture isn't very effective now. Especially since dems voted down four times the past two years to expand drilling and refining of oil.

[thecavemaster]

I think that he didn't have them currently, but he clearly wasn't against having them or using them. The question of why we are in Iraq I believe is a mute point now. I think the only thing we can do now is win. People keep saying we need to leave but an example I always give is this: If you are in a football game and you were down at halftime, came out in the third quarter and took the lead, why would you forfeit in the fourth. I believe that its close to over, I may be wrong, but I do believe that we can pull out with a victory in the next year or two. Not ten , or one-hundred like libs keep saying.

I once knew a guy, not that big...but mean and aggressive...no matter how bad some bigger dude beat him up, he never quit, never. Bruised, bloodies, battered, he kept getting up, kept throwing punches...never a white flag. The Russians learned this lesson in Afhanistan. We are learning it in Iraq: there will be no white flag of surrender. Yes, we have reduced casualties; yes, the Surge has been effective on many levels. However, a white flag will never be raised when people think their religion, their culture is at stake.

[Beetle01]

I once knew a guy, not that big...but mean and aggressive...no matter how bad some bigger dude beat him up, he never quit, never. Bruised, bloodies, battered, he kept getting up, kept throwing punches...never a white flag. The Russians learned this lesson in Afhanistan. We are learning it in Iraq: there will be no white flag of surrender. Yes, we have reduced casualties; yes, the Surge has been effective on many levels. However, a white flag will never be raised when people think their religion, their culture is at stake.

What people? The insurgents? Some radicals? As a whole having spoke in depth with many many close friends who are like brothers to me about the situation there. Some who are due to go back again, feel that is 100% worth the effort, and 95% of the people of Iraq support what the Americans are doing, its a radical fringe and fighters supported from foreign countries, mainly Iran, that are causing the problems.

you act like all of Iraq is against us, when its the total opposite of that. Sure there are some elements who oppose us, but you have to ask yourself why they oppose what we are doing, which is mainly for their own political and power agendas.

[thecavemaster]

What people? The insurgents? Some radicals? As a whole having spoke in depth with many many close friends who are like brothers to me about the situation there. Some who are due to go back again, feel that is 100% worth the effort, and 95% of the people of Iraq support what the Americans are doing, its a radical fringe and fighters supported from foreign countries, mainly Iran, that are causing the problems.

you act like all of Iraq is against us, when its the total opposite of that. Sure there are some elements who oppose us, but you have to ask yourself why they oppose what we are doing, which is mainly for their own political and power agendas.

With all due respect, I am merely suggesting what David Petraeus has suggested elsewhere. If 10% of one million people are fighting us, that's 100,000. If that 100,000 keeps fighting (and they will), no white flag will be raised. The Russians won but couldn't win, won every battle, couldn't end the war. This is what I am suggesting: we win all the battles, but we cannot end the war because no white flag, no Malta Conference is going to happen.

[Beetle01]

With all due respect, I am merely suggesting what David Petraeus has suggested elsewhere. If 10% of one million people are fighting us, that's 100,000. If that 100,000 keeps fighting (and they will), no white flag will be raised. The Russians won but couldn't win, won every battle, couldn't end the war. This is what I am suggesting: we win all the battles, but we cannot end the war because no white flag, no Malta Conference is going to happen.

Yes but the Russinas were fighting the Afghans. We have the backing of the vast majority of Iraqi's. That is what makes the difference. I guess if the Nazi's or Japanese would have never surrendered we should have just packed it up and came home. The nazi's and Japs were as radical if not more than these Islamic terrorists who have to resort to promising to pay the families of their martyrs to get them to do anything. This is why I do not believe their will is as strong as you believe. The one guy caught in Mumbai verifies this. While I'm sure there are a select few who do it on the basis of their religion, most do it so that their family is taken care of. Once it becomes evident, when Iraq becomes a true free nation that we are not out there to wipe away the history of these people or their way of life, you will see a sudden change in the willingness of these people to fight against us. Sure some bad things have happened, some Americans have done some terrible things themselves. However, we too often let a select few events change our percpetion on the whole picture

[thecavemaster]

Yes but the Russinas were fighting the Afghans. We have the backing of the vast majority of Iraqi's. That is what makes the difference. I guess if the Nazi's or Japanese would have never surrendered we should have just packed it up and came home. The nazi's and Japs were as radical if not more than these Islamic terrorists who have to resort to promising to pay the families of their martyrs to get them to do anything. This is why I do not believe their will is as strong as you believe. The one guy caught in Mumbai verifies this. While I'm sure there are a select few who do it on the basis of their religion, most do it so that their family is taken care of. Once it becomes evident, when Iraq becomes a true free nation that we are not out there to wipe away the history of these people or their way of life, you will see a sudden change in the willingness of these people to fight against us. Sure some bad things have happened, some Americans have done some terrible things themselves. However, we too often let a select few events change our percpetion on the whole picture

From many different places in the Middle East (and even parts of Africa), a steady stream of individuals offer themselves for suicide missions in the name of "allah" ("allah akhbar"... believing this to be part of a larger holy war (jihad)... where the very survival and victory of their religion and culture are at stake. There are enough of them to make a white flag waving in the breeze an impossibility.

[Matman]

From many different places in the Middle East (and even parts of Africa), a steady stream of individuals offer themselves for suicide missions in the name of "allah" ("allah akhbar"... believing this to be part of a larger holy war (jihad)... where the very survival and victory of their religion and culture are at stake. There are enough of them to make a white flag waving in the breeze an impossibility.

This is nothing like what the Russians were fighting. This is what irritates me. The media has done a horrible job at painting a picture of this war. We aren't fighting Iraq or any middle east country. We are helping the middle east fight their own war at this point. Handing over different responsibilities as we go. Iraq loves us. Its the people of Iraq that is forcing out insurgents. We are helping them do it. They don't have a steady stream of individuals offering themselves up there. Iraqis want their cities back and they figured out how to get them back. By forcing the terrorist groups out. So that is what they are doing. Just look at the turn around in the Anbar Province. It was the sheiks of the area that got rid of the terrorist groups with our help.

[guyfawkes]

Nope, we just went over there for the oil, and we have been paying for it ever since.

[thecavemaster]

This is nothing like what the Russians were fighting. This is what irritates me. The media has done a horrible job at painting a picture of this war. We aren't fighting Iraq or any middle east country. We are helping the middle east fight their own war at this point. Handing over different responsibilities as we go. Iraq loves us. Its the people of Iraq that is forcing out insurgents. We are helping them do it. They don't have a steady stream of individuals offering themselves up there. Iraqis want their cities back and they figured out how to get them back. By forcing the terrorist groups out. So that is what they are doing. Just look at the turn around in the Anbar Province. It was the sheiks of the area that got rid of the terrorist groups with our help.

That's why I said "from many parts of the Moslem world." To an awful lot of Moslems in Afghanistan, they were fighting to preserve their autonomy, their culture, their religion. While I would agree that there are major differences in Iraq in comparison, I would also suggest that there are striking similarities. I would also agree that Iraq is not as much of a "hot bead" of Moslem fanaticism among the general population.

[Beetle01]

That's why I said "from many parts of the Moslem world." To an awful lot of Moslems in Afghanistan, they were fighting to preserve their autonomy, their culture, their religion. While I would agree that there are major differences in Iraq in comparison, I would also suggest that there are striking similarities. I would also agree that Iraq is not as much of a "hot bead" of Moslem fanaticism among the general population.

There was a large portion of the Afghan population fighting insurgents in Afghanistan before we even got there, also fighting the Taliban the urling warlords of the country. That's what Al Qaeda is to the Afghans, most of AlQ is not even Afghani. So we went in and ran out the Taliban and have been on the hunt trying to erradicate AlQ. Pakistan hasn't been 100% helpful in this, and we need to face facts, there are portions of the Pakistani Govt. that are sympathetic to the terrorist cause. Hopefully with this whole distraction with India, that will open the door for us to do more border crossings and eliminate more terrorists that are hiding in those mountains.

In that region we need to make India and the Afghan govt our biggest allies, not Pakistan. India is the country that will help us keep China in check in the long run and we need to be supporting them, so that they will support us when we need it.

[thecavemaster]

There was a large portion of the Afghan population fighting insurgents in Afghanistan before we even got there, also fighting the Taliban the urling warlords of the country. That's what Al Qaeda is to the Afghans, most of AlQ is not even Afghani. So we went in and ran out the Taliban and have been on the hunt trying to erradicate AlQ. Pakistan hasn't been 100% helpful in this, and we need to face facts, there are portions of the Pakistani Govt. that are sympathetic to the terrorist cause. Hopefully with this whole distraction with India, that will open the door for us to do more border crossings and eliminate more terrorists that are hiding in those mountains.

In that region we need to make India and the Afghan govt our biggest allies, not Pakistan. India is the country that will help us keep China in check in the long run and we need to be supporting them, so that they will support us when we need it.

India, no doubt, is a key ally in the region. No white flag will ever be raised by jihadists. If one thinks about it, suicide bombers suggest that devotion to Allah (perceived) matters more than life or survival "in this world." Poverty, perceived injustice in oil revenues, "invaders in our land," etc. etc. will keep a ready supply of jihadists active and threatening in the Middle East.

[Braves_Fan_26]

Saddam never had WMDs and I believe he never had the intention of ever having any. My question is this, why is the US and certain other countries allowed to have them and no one else is? I will tell ya why, its because the US along with the other power countries, want to control the world. Thats what it has been about from day one of this thing we call humanity. Its all about power and control. The only reason there was a war at all is because of oil, and so Bush and Cheney could profit from it. Cheney owns Halliburton, the company that came in to rebuild everything in Iraq after Bush destroyed it all. Bush is from oil rich texas and he owned the Rangers baseball team at one time, the man is all about money. Americans need to open their eyes and realize whats going on and learn to question everything, and not just take everything they are told as believable. I like and voted for Obama, but he will probably turn out to be the same, and it wouldnt surprise me at all, I hope Im wrong, but face it, this is America and all that matters to most americans is money and power, or for those that dont have either, believing what they are told to be the gospel according to the us government.

[Magicjefferson25]

I think we mucked up by starting this war in iraq. We still havent found any wmd's to this very day, the reason we declared war on them.

[Matman]

I think we mucked up by starting this war in iraq. We still havent found any wmd's to this very day, the reason we declared war on them.

The reason we "started this war" is because their refusal to comply with the UN and their violations of a prior agreement envolving weapons. Which we did find weapons that violated prior agreements along with a whole bunch of human rights violations.

[Magicjefferson25]

The reason we "started this war" is because their refusal to comply with the UN and their violations of a prior agreement envolving weapons. Which we did find weapons that violated prior agreements along with a whole bunch of human rights violations.

We did not find wmd's though, which is what they told us was the huge concern, that they were going to make them and use them against us.

[Matman]

We did not find wmd's though, which is what they told us was the huge concern, that they were going to make them and use them against us.

No but we found plenty of other weapons in violation of the agreement. Along with quite a few mass graves.

[Magicjefferson25]

No but we found plenty of other weapons in violation of the agreement. Along with quite a few mass graves.

As long as they didnt have wmd's i really dont care. As far as the mass graves, i dont care, they were not americans.

[Beetle01]

As long as they didnt have wmd's i really dont care. As far as the mass graves, i dont care, they were not americans.

Well luckily we are a Christian nation, and most of us do actually care about other people in this world who are being killed or abused by those around them with power. If the roles were switched, you would have been begging for them to step in and save you. Its weak minded, morally corrupt people like yourself that are bringing this country to its knees. Too much of the ME attitude.

[thecavemaster]

Well luckily we are a Christian nation, and most of us do actually care about other people in this world who are being killed or abused by those around them with power. If the roles were switched, you would have been begging for them to step in and save you. Its weak minded, morally corrupt people like yourself that are bringing this country to its knees. Too much of the ME attitude.

If the world were ten sisters, all living under the awful brutality of a terrible brother, we would choose to save the five sisters who were pretty or useful for our purposes. The other five would have to fend for themselves.

[Matman]

As long as they didnt have wmd's i really dont care. As far as the mass graves, i dont care, they were not americans.

It doesn't sound like you do much to help others American or not. Some people complain about things and some people do things to help the situation. Thats just how the world works.

[Matman]

If the world were ten sisters, all living under the awful brutality of a terrible brother, we would choose to save the five sisters who were pretty or useful for our purposes. The other five would have to fend for themselves.

Do you do any charity work yourself. You have alot of clever sayings. I was just curious if you used that cleverness to help out.

[Beetle01]

Saddam never had WMDs and I believe he never had the intention of ever having any. My question is this, why is the US and certain other countries allowed to have them and no one else is? I will tell ya why, its because the US along with the other power countries, want to control the world. Thats what it has been about from day one of this thing we call humanity. Its all about power and control. The only reason there was a war at all is because of oil, and so Bush and Cheney could profit from it. Cheney owns Halliburton, the company that came in to rebuild everything in Iraq after Bush destroyed it all. Bush is from oil rich texas and he owned the Rangers baseball team at one time, the man is all about money. Americans need to open their eyes and realize whats going on and learn to question everything, and not just take everything they are told as believable. I like and voted for Obama, but he will probably turn out to be the same, and it wouldnt surprise me at all, I hope Im wrong, but face it, this is America and all that matters to most americans is money and power, or for those that dont have either, believing what they are told to be the gospel according to the us government.

I don't know if your joking or just really ignorant. Saddam had WMD's. He used them on his own people. Where did the rest goto? I have close friends who were part of the initial invasion hitting up suspected sites, and he said it was evident that machines, sotrage tanks, and supplies were taken out of there in a hurry. He said you could even see they wouldnt take the time to dismantle the tanks because of their residue, they would just pull them through the door so they could get rid of them in a hurry. One went around testing samples, and they found evidence of Anthrax, Sarin, and Mustard Gas, but they never found enough to really have proof, because it was all taken out.

[DevilsWin]

Well luckily we are a Christian nation, and most of us do actually care about other people in this world who are being killed or abused by those around them with power. If the roles were switched, you would have been begging for them to step in and save you. Its weak minded, morally corrupt people like yourself that are bringing this country to its knees. Too much of the ME attitude.

So should we send troops into every country that is reportedly commiting crimes against Humanity?

[DevilsWin]

I don't know if your joking or just really ignorant. Saddam had WMD's. He used them on his own people. Where did the rest goto? I have close friends who were part of the initial invasion hitting up suspected sites, and he said it was evident that machines, sotrage tanks, and supplies were taken out of there in a hurry. He said you could even see they wouldnt take the time to dismantle the tanks because of their residue, they would just pull them through the door so they could get rid of them in a hurry. One went around testing samples, and they found evidence of Anthrax, Sarin, and Mustard Gas, but they never found enough to really have proof, because it was all taken out.

I'm not so sure a 20something year old foot soldier from Flatwoods, Ky with no formal training is qualified to make these kinds of conclusions.

[thecavemaster]

Do you do any charity work yourself. You have alot of clever sayings. I was just curious if you used that cleverness to help out.

I don't advertise it. Would you like a pm in which I give a few examples? Anyway, I thought the left hand didn't let the right hand know what it was doing.