[EKUAlum05]

In another thread we were discussing the fact that one of KY's top programs, Prestonsburg, is down to 27 players. Earlier this decade Pburg fielded anywhere from 50-60 players if I had to guess, and despite sustained success, have now declined to this level. This is something I have seen with other programs, not just Pburg. Breathitt County, Pikeville, and even Bell County have seen substantial decreases in their numbers in recent years despite remaining successful on the field.

Is this just a few isolated incidents that are dependent on coach preference and geographical issues? Is this only a regional trend in EKY? Or is this a trend that is more widespread?

What is causing this trend? Is it the growth of soccer, another Fall sport? Is it the growth of video games and time spent on a computer? Has the rough economy brought this on?

Would love to hear everyone's thoughts on this and what they think the eventuality of this situation will become.

[Bobcat_Dad]

Great topic. It is one that is discussed many times by fans and Coaches. Seems to really be a problem shared by many schools in EKY. I think it is a combination of things.

1. As a Society we have become less interested in sports and outdoors with video games computers and other material things. Kids have so many forms of entertainment the outdoors and sports become afterthoughts.

2. Instant gradification. Unfortunatly kids don't and will not put in the work if they don't get to play NOW. Used to be players were happy to play on the team compete in practice and then start as seniors. Not any more if they can't play at once they will quit and go to the house.

3.I do think the economy does play a huge role, especially in the spread out areas of the mountains. Parents can't afford the money to get the kids to and fro for practice and games.

4. This is a sterotypical statment but IMO true. A lot of familes have become so sorry they will not do anything, work, sports, or anything besides drawing a check. They have no assperations to do anything and the kids inherit that attitude.

I hope it is just a trend but am afraid it will continue.

[BlackcatAlum]

^Great points.

Like I said in the Pburg/Belfry thread, only reason why I think Prestonsburg's numbers are down is because players simply cannot handle the dedication it takes to play this sport year round. A lot of Prestonsburg's male students talk a big game but most never back it up on the field.

[Bobcat_Dad]

^Great points.

Like I said in the Pburg/Belfry thread, only reason why I think Prestonsburg's numbers are down is because players simply cannot handle the dedication it takes to play this sport year round. A lot of Prestonsburg's male students talk a big game but most never back it up on the field.

Blackcat I agree with that point as well. Sports all sports are becoming year round that puts strain on a lot of kids. Fall Baseball, Summer Basketball, Spring/Summer 7 on 7. When is enough, enough. I think we need to limit off-season orgainized events. Weights and individual stuff is great. Look at Basketball. The quality of basketball across the state has suffered b/c of summer basketball IMO. Kids don't drill the fundementals anymore, they don't have time with 100 summer games.

[BlackcatAlum]

Blackcat I agree with that point as well. Sports all sports are becoming year round that puts strain on a lot of kids. Fall Baseball, Summer Basketball, Spring/Summer 7 on 7. When is enough, enough. I think we need to limit off-season orgainized events. Weights and individual stuff is great. Look at Basketball. The quality of basketball across the state has suffered b/c of summer basketball IMO. Kids don't drill the fundementals anymore, they don't have time with 100 summer games.

I agree. :Thumbs:

[cat86]

These are all excellent points, and I agree with all that has been said.

If anyone figures out the answer, be sure to let the rest of us know...:biggrin:

[OrangenowBlue]

It is a combination of all the above plus kids have more choices. When I was in high school, boys had football, basketball, baseball, track and cross-country. Girls had basketball,cheerleading, track and cross-country. Now you have volleyball, soccer, wrestling, golf, tennis, and dance team. Also some parents, have become so self=centered that they would much rather have their child at home playing video games instead of going to practice because that would mean that the parent would have to drive them back and forth.

[King Leonidas]

Basically Kids are lazy these days and don't know what work is. You have to be dedicated to win and be a champion, which would help them later in life by knowing how to work to acheive something in life and make a living.

[OrangenowBlue]

Basically Kids are lazy these days and don't know what work is. You have to be dedicated to win and be a champion, which would help them later in life by knowing how to work to acheive something in life and make a living.

I am only speaking from my personal experiences but it appears to me that laziness is more prevalent in boys athletics in the mountains. The number of girls participating seems to be going up. Boys are more apt to sit on the couch and play Call of Duty. In case you haven't noticed in Eastern Kentucky, with the exception of the coal and gas industry, women are dominating the work force both in high and low level jobs. There are still some hard working young males out there but it appears to be decreasing.

[Stardust]

^Great points.

Like I said in the Pburg/Belfry thread, only reason why I think Prestonsburg's numbers are down is because players simply cannot handle the dedication it takes to play this sport year round. A lot of Prestonsburg's male students talk a big game but most never back it up on the field.

It's dedication to anything, not just football. Football is not the only sport with declining numbers, it's hitting all sports. More and more HS athletic teams are fielding more and more middle schoolers, and it's not just because of talent, but because of need to fill spots....

[oneijoe]

Yes...like I said in the thread where this came up, it's a multi-faceted trend.

I'll also add academic team practice/competitions. That's a year-round thing that absolutely leaves NO time for other extra-curriculars. This hurts football more in quality of student that plays than in numbers.

While I've always been an "academics first" parent, it became apparent when my daughter was a Freshman and was on the academic team she had no time for anything else. Since she discontinued it (with my blessing), she has really enjoyed playing sports (her grades have always been tip-top). It's healthier, also.

IMO, the 6 1/2 hrs + homework time a student must spend on bookwork each day is ENOUGH. A kid needs to exercise the body, too.

[Stardust]

Yes...like I said in the thread where this came up, it's a multi-faceted trend.

I'll also add academic team practice/competitions. That's a year-round thing that absolutely leaves NO time for other extra-curriculars. This hurts football more in quality of student that plays than in numbers.

While I've always been an "academics first" parent, it became apparent when my daughter was a Freshman and was on the academic team she had no time for anything else. Since she discontinued it (with my blessing), she has really enjoyed playing sports (her grades have always been tip-top). It's healthier, also.

IMO, the 6 1/2 hrs + homework time a student must spend on bookwork each day is ENOUGH. A kid needs to exercise the body, too.

Nice post :Thumbs:

[EKUAlum05]

Do you all see this trend changing?

Will football numbers see an increase across the board or only in case by case basis?

What needs to happen to counteract this?

[Poseidon]

The jobs and population will continue to decline in EKY as long as mining is still the main source of income. Once gone, many families will have no other choice to leave to find work, and many are already doing so rather than waiting.

[Panther Thunder]

Pikeville- Soccer, Video Games, lack of dedication, and lower enrollment numbers. Another is the pressure to focus on one sport.

[cat86]

Do you all see this trend changing?

Will football numbers see an increase across the board or only in case by case basis?

What needs to happen to counteract this?

Sadly enough, I don't see this changing. I think in the Trinity situation that I mentioned in another post, they will always have numbers. But that is strictly due to the fact that they are a boys only school. When you really think about it, a 1 to 6 ratio of football players to students is not all that high. However, if a school were to get on a run of Championships, like Beechwood, then I believe you would see an increase in numbers, but it would most likely start at the middle school level. As Beechwood has won a couple of Titles in a row now, their feeder programs have exploded. Whether or not those kids stay with it remains to be seen.

I don't know if the situation can be countermanded. Gone are the days of a school like Prestonsburg fielding 50-60 players. Just not gonna happen any more. More kids are concentrating on the sport they are best at (can't blame them, either. Most sports are year round now). More parents don't care for their kids being so tied up in a sport all the time. And it appears more and more coaches would prefer to work with smaller numbers so the kids getting the actual playing time get more work in practice.

[EKUAlum05]

I have heard of some schools, specifically private schools, that REQUIRE every student to either be a part of a sport or the band. I think this would especially be helpful to boost the participation for the state's smaller schools (1A and 2A), who seem to be impacted by this the most.

I would consider right now that if you get 25% of your eligible males to play football you are well ahead of the curve. I think 15-20% is the goal most programs should strive for, and 10% is acceptable. Now of course if you apply this to a typical 1A school (Approximately 150 males), then you would only have 15 players by these guidelines. For a typical 2A school (approximately 250 males) that would equate to 25 players.


By requiring participation you may realistically see a 5% boost. It may not be much but that same school with 150 males would now have 22 players instead of 15. That 2A school with 250 males goes from 25 players to 37 players.

This would also have numerous financial and educational benefits. First and foremost more players= more families= more attendance. It would also help to reduce the "waves of talent" that seems to inherantly haunt the middle of the pack teams that frequent both of these classes. Typically 1A and 2A has a couple dominate programs who are self sufficient, yet the other teams have cyclical talent waves where they are "up" for four years and "down" for the next four.

Academically, it forces students to get out of the house and off the computer or Xbox and experience discipline and responsibility that is missing in today's society These lessons have far reaching effects, none moreso then academics.

Just a thought.

[NEXT]

Blackcat I agree with that point as well. Sports all sports are becoming year round that puts strain on a lot of kids. Fall Baseball, Summer Basketball, Spring/Summer 7 on 7. When is enough, enough. I think we need to limit off-season orgainized events. Weights and individual stuff is great. Look at Basketball. The quality of basketball across the state has suffered b/c of summer basketball IMO. Kids don't drill the fundementals anymore, they don't have time with 100 summer games.

If you think that then you are sadly mistaken.


#1 reason football #'s are going down IMHO is football starts in July, kids want to got to the lake, go on vacations with their parents/friends, etc.

[UCFB]

In another thread we were discussing the fact that one of KY's top programs, Prestonsburg, is down to 27 players. Earlier this decade Pburg fielded anywhere from 50-60 players if I had to guess, and despite sustained success, have now declined to this level. This is something I have seen with other programs, not just Pburg. Breathitt County, Pikeville, and even Bell County have seen substantial decreases in their numbers in recent years despite remaining successful on the field.

Is this just a few isolated incidents that are dependent on coach preference and geographical issues? Is this only a regional trend in EKY? Or is this a trend that is more widespread?

What is causing this trend? Is it the growth of soccer, another Fall sport? Is it the growth of video games and time spent on a computer? Has the rough economy brought this on?

Would love to hear everyone's thoughts on this and what they think the eventuality of this situation will become.

prestonburg is not the program it wa 10 years ago, or even 5, probly one reason.

[BlackcatAlum]

prestonburg is not the program it wa 10 years ago, or even 5, probly one reason.

Prestonsburg hasn't been a championship contender since 2004.

[AHS86]

I don't think it is all of EKY I can't speak for anywhere but Ashland, but our numbers are up in high school (55), freshman class has about 30, middle school 7th & 8th grade have 30 plus in each grade. JFL had 180 kids 3rd through 6th an probably another 30plus K thru 2nd .

[oneijoe]

prestonburg is not the program it wa 10 years ago, or even 5, probly one reason.

Prestonsburg hasn't had the same talented players in good numbers in awhile. That's just a cyclical thing. That's not what we're talking about.

Rather, the discussion is about a fall-off of participation overall in football.

[oneijoe]

...


#1 reason football #'s are going down IMHO is football starts in July, kids want to got to the lake, go on vacations with their parents/friends, etc.

And how is this different from years previously ?!? (unless you're going wayyyy back to when football practice didn't start until the fall school term)

Now it may be a long-time reason for football participation to be less than what it could be, but it hardly explains a recent trend.

[GOREDDEVILS]

I don't think it is all of EKY I can't speak for anywhere but Ashland, but our numbers are up in high school (55), freshman class has about 30, middle school 7th & 8th grade have 30 plus in each grade. JFL had 180 kids 3rd through 6th an probably another 30plus K thru 2nd .

I counted 52 10-12 grade for Ashland

I counted 27 freshman for Ashland

a total of 79 players on the roster

[GOREDDEVILS]

Russells numbers are down alittle in 10-12 grade with a total 41 kids.

Russell Freshman team has 32 kids so numbers should be back up soon for Russell.

[OrangenowBlue]

In the fall sports at Letcher Central comparing last year to this year in student participation.

2008 2009

Football 62 60
Volleyball 27 35
G. Soccer 25 21
B. Soccer 19 21

Totals 133 137

The numbers overall in the fall sports have actually went up but it is about the same.

[HAIL PIKEVILLE!]

I don't think it is all of EKY I can't speak for anywhere but Ashland, but our numbers are up in high school (55), freshman class has about 30, middle school 7th & 8th grade have 30 plus in each grade. JFL had 180 kids 3rd through 6th an probably another 30plus K thru 2nd .

Thats great to hear. I remember when we came to play you guys in '07 and you didnt have many more out than we did and were a 1a school (We won that game by the way LOL! just kddin)

[BellCoBobcats09]

Bell Co always has 50-55 players out every year. This year they have 53. 22 of the 53 are Freshman. Now Middlesboro usually has 45 or so and this year there down to 32 players.

[BellCoBobcats09]

Middlesboros population is actually going up thanks to LMU. In 2000 they were only 10,384 people here and last update was July 1st 2009 and it was 13,674. LMU in 3 years is going to be a Div 1 college. There medical programs are taking off like a freight train.

[AHS86]

I counted 52 10-12 grade for Ashland

I counted 27 freshman for Ashland

a total of 79 players on the roster

Shew, (about 30) didn't bother breaking it down to exact # Just making the point our numbers our up from bottom to top! Feeder program is better than ever!:biggrin: