[Jarons]

Who are your top five quarterbacks in the NFL?
I will start out with my top five:
1. Tom Brady
2. Ben Roethlisberger
3. Kurt Warner
4. Peyton Manning
5. Drew Brees
Lets hear yours.

[Stardust]

Brady, Peyton, Eli, Ben - these guys can and have won Super Bowls and will continue to win games. Notch below: Bree's and Warner are good, not great. Favre??? We shall see.

[Wildcatk23]

1. Tom Brady
2. Peyton Manning
3. Big Ben
4. Drew Brees
5. Eli Manning

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Brady
Manning
Big Ben
Brees
McNabb

[bigjim4packers]

Brady, Peyton, Rothlesberger, Brees, maybe Cutler, want it to be Rodgers.:AngelPray:

[Wildcatk23]

Brady, Peyton, Rothlesberger, Brees, maybe Cutler, want it to be Rodgers.:AngelPray:

lol, i hope he has a breakout year, he has the potential

[BlackcatAlum]

1. Tom Brady
2. Peyton Manning
3. Drew Brees
4. Ben Roethlisberger
5. Donovan McNabb

[Deathstar 80]

1. Tom Brady
2. Peyton Manning
3. Drew Brees
4. Ben Roethlisberger
5. Donovan McNabb

:thumpsup:

[More Cowbell]

Who are your top five quarterbacks in the NFL?
I will start out with my top five:
1. Tom Brady
2. Ben Roethlisberger
3. Kurt Warner
4. Peyton Manning
5. Drew Brees
Lets hear yours.

Peyton Manning at #4 ??? Behind Ben Roethlisberger and Kurt Warner??? Surely you jest.

I'm no Colts fan, but I would put Peyton Manning solidly at #1, although I can see an argument for slotting him behind Tom Brady. But no way is he any lower than #2. In my opinion, there is a steep dropoff after the top two guys.

[mrsportsfan]

1. Tom Brady
2. Ben Roethlisberger
3. Peyton Manning
4. Drew Brees
5. Philip Rivers

If anybody watched the Steelers versus the Bills, Big Ben looked smooth and relaxed. He went 15 for 19, almost 200 yards. He absolutely showed no nerves playing the first half. 17-0 The Bills, I know didn't have TO but they didn't have their crap together, but former Kentucky player Steve Johnson, made a couple of nice catches in the 4th quarter when they put him in..

[mrsportsfan]

Cowbell, surely, you couldn't admit that Ben is much of a qb when your a Bengal fan? After all, Choke is the official drink of the Cincinnati Bengals.:lmao:

[HAIL PIKEVILLE!]

Peyton Manning at #4 ??? Behind Ben Roethlisberger and Kurt Warner??? Surely you jest.

I'm no Colts fan, but I would put Peyton Manning solidly at #1, although I can see an argument for slotting him behind Tom Brady. But no way is he any lower than #2. In my opinion, there is a steep dropoff after the top two guys.

Why not? Ben has more rings and Warner has more Super Bowl appearances than Peyton.

[More Cowbell]

If anybody watched the Steelers versus the Bills, Big Ben looked smooth and relaxed. He went 15 for 19, almost 200 yards. He absolutely showed no nerves playing the first half.

Sorry, I didn't realize that looking sharp against the Buffalo Bills made someone an elite quarterback.

Cowbell, surely, you couldn't admit that Ben is much of a qb when your a Bengal fan? After all, Choke is the official drink of the Cincinnati Bengals.

I will admit the truth, which is that the Steelers have quite possibly the best defense in the league to go along with a strong running game. I will not admit that Big Ben is on the same level with Tom Brady and Peyton Manning, because he isn't.

And if Choke is the official drink of the Bengals, what is the Steelers' official drink? Sucker Punch? :eyeroll:

[More Cowbell]

Why not? Ben has more rings and Warner has more Super Bowl appearances than Peyton.

In case you forgot, football is a TEAM game, with 11 players on the field at a time. Just because one QB has been a part of more TEAM success, doesn't make him a better player.

Think of all those years when Peyton was playing at an elite level, but the Colts defense was so poor that no QB in the NFL could've led them to a Super Bowl. It wasn't until Indy fixed their defensive shortcomings that they finally won the title.

Again, I may not like the Steelers, but I have no problem admitting that they are the best TEAM in the league. But being the quarterback on the best team doesn't automatically make you the best QB, too. It just doesn't work that way.

If you want to just compare Super Bowl rings as a measure of how good a QB is, then I guess you would say that Peyton Manning is no better a quarterback than Trent Dilfer, right?

[Jarons]

Peyton Manning at #4 ??? Behind Ben Roethlisberger and Kurt Warner??? Surely you jest.

I'm no Colts fan, but I would put Peyton Manning solidly at #1, although I can see an argument for slotting him behind Tom Brady. But no way is he any lower than #2. In my opinion, there is a steep dropoff after the top two guys.

Manning is a great REGULAR season QB. Big games he fails miserably. Manning's playoff record is 7-8. Of the nine times he reached the playoffs, 6 times he did not win a playoff game. He throws a ton of INT's in the post season. The super bowl he won, he was carried by the defense and running game. He threw a ton of INT's that post season also. I know football is a team game. Look who he has had to throw to his career: Marvin Harrison future HOF, better than anyone Big Ben has to throw to, Reggie Wayne, Edderin(sp?) James in his prime, Dallas Clark, solid o-line. Big Ben dreams about that kind of talent to throw to. He panics when he gets behind and eliminates the run, see the playoffs games he has lost. Great QB's is not just regular season stats it is about coming up big in the big time in the big games. Something Manning has not done even in college.
Big Ben 7-2 playoff record, less talent to on the offensive side of the ball, an offensive line that is just plain terrible. Most 4th quarter comebacks since 2004.
Great QB's is not about rings about leading teams in big games. I have not truly seen that from Manning.

[TidesHoss32]

Sorry, I didn't realize that looking sharp against the Buffalo Bills made someone an elite quarterback.




I will admit the truth, which is that the Steelers have quite possibly the best defense in the league to go along with a strong running game. I will not admit that Big Ben is on the same level with Tom Brady and Peyton Manning, because he isn't.

And if Choke is the official drink of the Bengals, what is the Steelers' official drink? Sucker Punch? :eyeroll:

Now Cowbell, first of all, before I make this post, I have ALWAYS held an enormous amount of respect for you, and I WILL ALWAYS hold an enormous amount of respect for you. But Big Ben not on the same level with Brady or Peyton? People can point to the Steelers having an awesome defense, yes. But it has been Roethlisberger the one leading all the 4th quarter comebacks..statistically you have a great point, but with 2:00 to go in the 4th quarter and your team is down 20-16 (well...if its a Steelers game, its 7-3), I would want nobody but Ben leading my team. To me, THATS what makes an elite quarterback. I have no doubt if he was in the same system that New Orleans or Green Bay uses, he would be a 4000 yard and 25 to 30 touchdown quarterback every year. But I would rather be counting superbowl trophies than TD passes :biggrin:

[Jarons]

Now Cowbell, first of all, before I make this post, I have ALWAYS held an enormous amount of respect for you, and I WILL ALWAYS hold an enormous amount of respect for you. But Big Ben not on the same level with Brady or Peyton? People can point to the Steelers having an awesome defense, yes. But it has been Roethlisberger the one leading all the 4th quarter comebacks..statistically you have a great point, but with 2:00 to go in the 4th quarter and your team is down 20-16 (well...if its a Steelers game, its 7-3), I would want nobody but Ben leading my team. To me, THATS what makes an elite quarterback. I have no doubt if he was in the same system that New Orleans or Green Bay uses, he would be a 4000 yard and 25 to 30 touchdown quarterback every year. But I would rather be counting superbowl trophies than TD passes :biggrin:

:worthy:

[mrsportsfan]

I wasn't saying anything about who they were playing against, I was saying that he looked good, comfortable, no nerves. The first string on offense and defense except for some offside calls seemed to be game on. When the Steelers played the Colts in Indianapolis on the road to Detroit, the stadium is supposed to be the loudest place to play for the opponent, thereby causing them false starts because they have to go to hand signals. Peyton Manning lost that game because he had so many times he let the clock run down without getting the ball off, because he said that he let Troy get in his head and he was watching for him, so that he could change the play at the last few seconds depending on what he was doing and he would constantly let the time run out, they would be backed up to their own 2 yard line. Everybody thinks that the defense won those road games, that and the running game, check the stats, there was no running game in Denver, he had to take to the air and had 21 out of 29 passes for 275 yards and 1 rushing td. No interceptions. They won 34-17. He had no interceptions against Indy and threw for 197 yards and stopped the guy by the shoestrings when Bettis fumbled the ball. When Fitzgerald made that touchdown in the SB, true Steeler fans who have faithfully watched games weren't worried because we had seen it so many times, Ben in a 2:00 drill or less will take you down the field and score, my only concern was time left on the clock. It was one of the best SB's in history, and that's what we always hope for is a close game and an exciting one. The only thing I disagree with is that Ben deserved that MVP trophy not Holmes.

[TidesHoss32]

Great post. The MVP trophy could have went with either Santonio OR Ben..both played excellent and made huge plays down the stretch..both could have an argument, but I wouldnt think that either of them cares who wins the SB MVP...I mean, Desmond Howard managed to win one of those, lol..

I wasn't saying anything about who they were playing against, I was saying that he looked good, comfortable, no nerves. The first string on offense and defense except for some offside calls seemed to be game on. When the Steelers played the Colts in Indianapolis on the road to Detroit, the stadium is supposed to be the loudest place to play for the opponent, thereby causing them false starts because they have to go to hand signals. Peyton Manning lost that game because he had so many times he let the clock run down without getting the ball off, because he said that he let Troy get in his head and he was watching for him, so that he could change the play at the last few seconds depending on what he was doing and he would constantly let the time run out, they would be backed up to their own 2 yard line. Everybody thinks that the defense won those road games, that and the running game, check the stats, there was no running game in Denver, he had to take to the air and had 21 out of 29 passes for 275 yards and 1 rushing td. No interceptions. They won 34-17. He had no interceptions against Indy and threw for 197 yards and stopped the guy by the shoestrings when Bettis fumbled the ball. When Fitzgerald made that touchdown in the SB, true Steeler fans who have faithfully watched games weren't worried because we had seen it so many times, Ben in a 2:00 drill or less will take you down the field and score, my only concern was time left on the clock. It was one of the best SB's in history, and that's what we always hope for is a close game and an exciting one. The only thing I disagree with is that Ben deserved that MVP trophy not Holmes.

[mrsportsfan]

I forgot to say that Ben had 3 td in the Denver game, 2 passing, 1 rushing.

[Wildcatk23]

Manning is a great REGULAR season QB. Big games he fails miserably. Manning's playoff record is 7-8. Of the nine times he reached the playoffs, 6 times he did not win a playoff game. He throws a ton of INT's in the post season. The super bowl he won, he was carried by the defense and running game. He threw a ton of INT's that post season also. I know football is a team game. Look who he has had to throw to his career: Marvin Harrison future HOF, better than anyone Big Ben has to throw to, Reggie Wayne, Edderin(sp?) James in his prime, Dallas Clark, solid o-line. Big Ben dreams about that kind of talent to throw to. He panics when he gets behind and eliminates the run, see the playoffs games he has lost. Great QB's is not just regular season stats it is about coming up big in the big time in the big games. Something Manning has not done even in college.
Big Ben 7-2 playoff record, less talent to on the offensive side of the ball, an offensive line that is just plain terrible. Most 4th quarter comebacks since 2004.
Great QB's is not about rings about leading teams in big games. I have not truly seen that from Manning.

You are dead on IMO

[beasy_bo]

1-brady easy pick
2-manning
3-brees alot closer to manning than what most people think
next is a toss up eli, rodgers(is one guy who is not getting any props caz of brett favre), ryan, mcnabb(stop worrying about yourself and worry about your team), russell(has potential)

[Hilbily]

Manning
Big Ben
Favre
Breakout season for Byron Leftwich. He looks healthy and is on his game!

[TidesHoss32]

Manning
Big Ben
Favre
Breakout season for Byron Leftwich. He looks healthy and is on his game!

I absolutely agree with you..Leftwich was solid in a backup role last year and I think he'll have a big year too..good post..:Thumbs:

[More Cowbell]

Manning is a great REGULAR season QB. Big games he fails miserably. Manning's playoff record is 7-8. Of the nine times he reached the playoffs, 6 times he did not win a playoff game. He throws a ton of INT's in the post season. The super bowl he won, he was carried by the defense and running game. He threw a ton of INT's that post season also. I know football is a team game. Look who he has had to throw to his career: Marvin Harrison future HOF, better than anyone Big Ben has to throw to, Reggie Wayne, Edderin(sp?) James in his prime, Dallas Clark, solid o-line. Big Ben dreams about that kind of talent to throw to. He panics when he gets behind and eliminates the run, see the playoffs games he has lost. Great QB's is not just regular season stats it is about coming up big in the big time in the big games. Something Manning has not done even in college.
Big Ben 7-2 playoff record, less talent to on the offensive side of the ball, an offensive line that is just plain terrible. Most 4th quarter comebacks since 2004.
Great QB's is not about rings about leading teams in big games. I have not truly seen that from Manning.

You're bringing up the playoff records as proof, which is fine except that it's the TEAM that wins and loses those games, not just the quarterback. Although the QB is the most important player on the team, he is still just one man. In my opinion, the national media give way too much credit to QB's for wins, and too much blame for losses.

As for Peyton having a better surrounding cast? No freakin way. First off, the Steelers may not have had Harrison or Wayne, but they do have Hines Ward, one of the most underrated receivers in the league. (If you guys don't want him any more, I'll gladly take him in Cincy.) And while the Colts running game has traditionally been inconsistent, the Steelers run game is the backbone of their offense.

And as for the respective defenses? Wow, not even close. Pittsburgh is usually at or near the top of the NFL in defense. You mentioned that Peyton usually had to abandon the run when his team got behind. Doesn't that speak more to the failings of his defense that usually puts him in that position? One should not discount the value that having a top-notch defense provides, I'm sure Ben does not.

[HAIL PIKEVILLE!]

Sorry, I didn't realize that looking sharp against the Buffalo Bills made someone an elite quarterback.




I will admit the truth, which is that the Steelers have quite possibly the best defense in the league to go along with a strong running game. I will not admit that Big Ben is on the same level with Tom Brady and Peyton Manning, because he isn't.

And if Choke is the official drink of the Bengals, what is the Steelers' official drink? Sucker Punch? :eyeroll:

First things first. The offical drink of the Steelers is a six-pack of Lombardi:champ:. Secondly. I guess we must have watched different Super Bowls this past year because I didnt see Ben handing off and relying on his defense on that last drive to win the game. I saw him will his team down the field. Ducking and dodging defenders to keep a play alive long enough to find an open receiver. Peyton or Tom Brady have both proven they will buckle when they face the kind of pressure Big Ben sees on every snap. I guess they dont want their hair messed up LOL!

[More Cowbell]

Now Cowbell, first of all, before I make this post, I have ALWAYS held an enormous amount of respect for you, and I WILL ALWAYS hold an enormous amount of respect for you. But Big Ben not on the same level with Brady or Peyton? People can point to the Steelers having an awesome defense, yes. But it has been Roethlisberger the one leading all the 4th quarter comebacks..statistically you have a great point, but with 2:00 to go in the 4th quarter and your team is down 20-16 (well...if its a Steelers game, its 7-3), I would want nobody but Ben leading my team. To me, THATS what makes an elite quarterback. I have no doubt if he was in the same system that New Orleans or Green Bay uses, he would be a 4000 yard and 25 to 30 touchdown quarterback every year. But I would rather be counting superbowl trophies than TD passes :biggrin:

I will admit that Roethlisberger is a great quarterback, and he has been very good in clutch situations. But looking back on the Super Bowl, prior to that last drive, he had only thrown for 172 yards in leading his team to 2 FG's and a TD. So it's not like he was dominating up to that point. Could Manning have led his team to a score on that fateful last drive? I think he could, but we'll never know. But I do think that he might not have even needed it, since he likely would have put up more than 13 points by then.

I know you feel that Ben would have better stats if he played in a different system. Maybe you're right. But I also feel that if you took out Roethlisberger and subbed in Carson Palmer onto the Steelers, they still would have won the two Super Bowls, and Carson would be the one with the two rings. Conversely, put Roethlisberger onto the Bengals, and would they have done any better? Nope.

(warning - off-topic rant ahead) To be truthful, I think it's a shame what Palmer has had to put up with in Cincy. A papier-mache defense his first few years, dysfunctional receivers and no running game his latter years, and a clueless owner the entire time. You may rip me for saying this, but I honestly believe that Palmer is just as talented if not more than Roethlisberger, but he has been stuck in bad situations out of his control. He shouldn't be penalized for that.

That said, I will say that I respect you as well, TidesHoss. Even though we root for two teams that are heated rivals, we can still disagree amicably and have some good discussions. :Thumbs:

[More Cowbell]

First things first. The offical drink of the Steelers is a six-pack of Lombardi:champ:. Secondly. I guess we must have watched different Super Bowls this past year because I didnt see Ben handing off and relying on his defense on that last drive to win the game. I saw him will his team down the field. Ducking and dodging defenders to keep a play alive long enough to find an open receiver. Peyton or Tom Brady have both proven they will buckle when they face the kind of pressure Big Ben sees on every snap. I guess they dont want their hair messed up LOL!

No, he didn't hand off any on that last drive, there wasn't enough time for that. Time and score dictated that he throw the ball every play.

And yes, I admit Roethlisberger did make the plays when it counted. In those last three minutes, he played like an elite QB. But in the other 57, he was merely above-average.

Sometimes the great QB's will lead their team on game-winning drives at the end of the game (Favre also comes to mind here). Other times, the elite QB's don't have to do that because they played like elite QB's during the earlier part of the game.

[Jarons]

You're bringing up the playoff records as proof, which is fine except that it's the TEAM that wins and loses those games, not just the quarterback. Although the QB is the most important player on the team, he is still just one man. In my opinion, the national media give way too much credit to QB's for wins, and too much blame for losses.

As for Peyton having a better surrounding cast? No freakin way. First off, the Steelers may not have had Harrison or Wayne, but they do have Hines Ward, one of the most underrated receivers in the league. (If you guys don't want him any more, I'll gladly take him in Cincy.) And while the Colts running game has traditionally been inconsistent, the Steelers run game is the backbone of their offense.

And as for the respective defenses? Wow, not even close. Pittsburgh is usually at or near the top of the NFL in defense. You mentioned that Peyton usually had to abandon the run when his team got behind. Doesn't that speak more to the failings of his defense that usually puts him in that position? One should not discount the value that having a top-notch defense provides, I'm sure Ben does not.

At least we agree that Ward is one of the most underrated players in the league and I hope he stays in Pittsburgh his entire career.That being said he is no where close to the talent as Harrison and Wayne. E. James in his prime was rushing for 1,000 yards each season and one of the receiving RB. My point about Manning is that he panics early when the Colts are easily still in the game, which allows the defense to pin their ears back and not worry about the run despite having E. James and Joseph Addai. With the caliber of offense the Colts have, they only need three stops to keep them in the game. As for the Steelers run game, it was terrible last year. From the preseason games I watched this season so far, it is not going to pretty.

[Jarons]

First things first. The offical drink of the Steelers is a six-pack of Lombardi:champ:. Secondly. I guess we must have watched different Super Bowls this past year because I didnt see Ben handing off and relying on his defense on that last drive to win the game. I saw him will his team down the field. Ducking and dodging defenders to keep a play alive long enough to find an open receiver. Peyton or Tom Brady have both proven they will buckle when they face the kind of pressure Big Ben sees on every snap. I guess they dont want their hair messed up LOL!

I agree with you about Manning, but Brady has proven to step it up many times in the big game.