[thecavemaster]

Voters may say that they oppose big government, but the programs that dominate federal spending (Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security) are very popular. The Republicans have for years been trying to find a way to dismantle what they call the "welfare state." But, how can the public be persuaded to accept large spending cuts? Basically, the Republicans use tax cuts to "starve the beast." They seek to put the United States in such a fiscal condition that spending cuts appear a necessity rather than a choice. One hopes their "oppose anything Obama proposes" strategy doesn't actually lead to a fiscal catastrophe.

[notamoocher]

Voters may say that they oppose big government, but the programs that dominate federal spending (Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security) are very popular. The Republicans have for years been trying to find a way to dismantle what they call the "welfare state." But, how can the public be persuaded to accept large spending cuts? Basically, the Republicans use tax cuts to "starve the beast." They seek to put the United States in such a fiscal condition that spending cuts appear a necessity rather than a choice. One hopes their "oppose anything Obama proposes" strategy doesn't actually lead to a fiscal catastrophe.

O.K. Listen I respect your views on these issues. I don't always understand them but still respect them. This spending binge that these guys have been on for years has to stop somewhere. Do you believe that term limits would help? Do you have any other suggestions to bring it under control. When I count all taxes that I pay I paid 42% of my income in taxes last year. So what percentage in taxes do you think we should pay?

[thecavemaster]

O.K. Listen I respect your views on these issues. I don't always understand them but still respect them. This spending binge that these guys have been on for years has to stop somewhere. Do you believe that term limits would help? Do you have any other suggestions to bring it under control. When I count all taxes that I pay I paid 42% of my income in taxes last year. So what percentage in taxes do you think we should pay?

I favor progressive taxation, not to exceed 30%, with capital gains taxes being a little higher, and inheritance taxes a little higher still.

[TheRealVille]

I favor progressive taxation, not to exceed 30%, with capital gains taxes being a little higher, and inheritance taxes a little higher still.

I am in no way for inheritance taxes. BTW, Kentucky has no inheritance tax at present.

[notamoocher]

I favor progressive taxation, not to exceed 30%, with capital gains taxes being a little higher, and inheritance taxes a little higher still.

I am refering to all taxes. property tax, sales tax, fuel tax etc. I would say that most people with decent jobs are paying 30% or more allready. The death tax is the worst it has put many smaller family farms out of business.

[Mr.Kimball]

I am refering to all taxes. property tax, sales tax, fuel tax etc. I would say that most people with decent jobs are paying 30% or more allready. The death tax is the worst it has put many smaller family farms out of business.

And family clothing stores, family shoe stores, family grocery stores, family tire stores, etc., etc. Yet, that is OK in the minds of these liberal morons.

[thecavemaster]

I am in no way for inheritance taxes. BTW, Kentucky has no inheritance tax at present.

Were my opinion to matter, I would be extremely negotiable on inheritance taxes and capital gains. However, I would be pretty intractable on progressive taxation.

[thecavemaster]

And family clothing stores, family shoe stores, family grocery stores, family tire stores, etc., etc. Yet, that is OK in the minds of these liberal morons.

You are drawing a staight line of causation here? Careful.

[Mr.Kimball]

You are drawing a staight line of causation here? Careful.

And elaborate on that.....

[thecavemaster]

And elaborate on that.....

Walmart has closed more family businesses than the tax code by a long shot.

[Mr.Kimball]

Walmart has closed more family businesses than the tax code by a long shot.

I wont disagree with that for one second. I'm probably an expert on how WalMart has impacted the financial health of small business America, but that doesn't mean you cant take the government's (whom I affectionaly prefer to refer to as "Big Brother") participation out of the equation , does it?

[Hoot Gibson]

Walmart has closed more family businesses than the tax code by a long shot.

I seriously doubt that. If you only consider retail stores, then you may be correct. However, the de-industrialization of this nation has driven countless family businesses out of business and our tax code has played a large role in the loss of our industrial base.

Think of the number of family-owned businesses that it takes to provide goods and services to a facility like the Georgetown Toyota plant. When a company like Toyota or Ford decides to relocate, they leave behind scores of satellite companies, many of which are family-owned.

[TidesHoss32]

I seriously doubt that. If you only consider retail stores, then you may be correct. However, the de-industrialization of this nation has driven countless family businesses out of business and our tax code has played a large role in the loss of our industrial base.

Think of the number of family-owned businesses that it takes to provide goods and services to a facility like the Georgetown Toyota plant. When a company like Toyota or Ford decides to relocate, they leave behind scores of satellite companies, many of which are family-owned.

People outside of Eastern Kentucky may not remember, but places like Virgie, Elkhorn and Jenkins were small towns that thrived in the 60s, 70s and even through a part of the 80s, and when Bethlehem, Scotts Branch and other big mining companies shut down, so did the towns..Your right Hoot, I know a couple of old Bethlemen miners that owned small businesses here in Jenkins, that eventually closed the doors soon after the mines shut down..Cut off the head and the body dies. Isnt that what they say?

[Hoot Gibson]

People outside of Eastern Kentucky may not remember, but places like Virgie, Elkhorn and Jenkins were small towns that thrived in the 60s, 70s and even through a part of the 80s, and when Bethlehem, Scotts Branch and other big mining companies shut down, so did the towns..Your right Hoot, I know a couple of old Bethlemen miners that owned small businesses here in Jenkins, that eventually closed the doors soon after the mines shut down..Cut off the head and the body dies. Isnt that what they say?

Exactly, Hoss. I lived in Holden, WV for a few months as a young mining engineer. In its hey day, Holden had a thriving downtown, with its own theater, dairy, drug store, etc. It even had a helipad on top of one of the downtown buildings. By the time I arrived in the early 80s, it was just a shell of its former self because of the closure of the big coal mines in the area.

Kentucky and West Virginia are dotted with towns like Holden, Jenkins, Lynch, and Wayland that have no Wal-Marts and very little else in the way of small businesses.

[Mr.Kimball]

I seriously doubt that. If you only consider retail stores, then you may be correct. However, the de-industrialization of this nation has driven countless family businesses out of business and our tax code has played a large role in the loss of our industrial base.

Think of the number of family-owned businesses that it takes to provide goods and services to a facility like the Georgetown Toyota plant. When a company like Toyota or Ford decides to relocate, they leave behind scores of satellite companies, many of which are family-owned.

Retail was indeed what I was referring to. They have devasted almost every sector of retail in small communities.

[Mr.Kimball]

Exactly, Hoss. I lived in Holden, WV for a few months as a young mining engineer. In its hey day, Holden had a thriving downtown, with its own theater, dairy, drug store, etc. It even had a helipad on top of one of the downtown buildings. By the time I arrived in the early 80s, it was just a shell of its former self because of the closure of the big coal mines in the area.

Kentucky and West Virginia are dotted with towns like Holden, Jenkins, Lynch, and Wayland that have no Wal-Marts and very little else in the way of small businesses.

Not meaning to appear to correct you because I know what points you are emphasizing, but I do want to mention that while Lynch may not have a Walmart close by, Jenkins contends with a Whitesburg store; Holden, a Logan Super Center; and Wayland, a D1 store in Prestonsburg. These towns are all considered in the demographic pull areas for those particular stores. However, like you said they were almost all relative ghost towns even before these stores entered their retail markets. They have basicly finished driving the nails in the coffins of what little family owned retail businesses that were left.

[Hoot Gibson]

Not meaning to appear to correct you because I know what points you are emphasizing, but I do want to mention that while Lynch may not have a Walmart close by, Jenkins contends with a Whitesburg store; Holden, a Logan Super Center; and Wayland, a D1 store in Prestonsburg. These towns are all considered in the demographic pull areas for those particular stores. However, like you said they were almost all relative ghost towns even before these stores entered their retail markets. They have basicly finished driving the nails in the coffins of what little family owned retail businesses that were left.

I meandered a bit too much in my post. The point that I started to make is that people typically think of mom and pop grocery stores when they hear "family owned business," but retail stores are the tip of the iceberg. Large companies, especially manufacturing companies, support all sorts of small businesses besides retail stores. Engineering companies, janitorial services, machine shops, auto mechanics, temp services, and other family owned businesses have suffered huge hits as this country's manufacturing base has declined.

Wal-Marts do tend to suck the life out of small towns but I have noticed in larger towns and cities, their competitors like Target, Best Buy, and even K-Mart do pretty well and still leave enough business for the smaller stores. I miss the days when Paintsville had neither a Wal-Mart nor a McDonald's.

One of the things that I like best about the area where I am living now is the large number of family-owned restaurants. I have never lived in a place before where I could drive through and order pan-fried trout or order a catfish sandwich at a real drive-in with curb service. Mississippians are the fattest people on average in the country for good reason. :biggrin:

[Beetle01]

CM, for someone who has supported a rally cry against class warfare, and supported a stronger, larger middle class I am completely surprised you would support an inheritance tax or death tax. Those 2 taxes increase alone weaken the middle class. The govt has no right to any money I leave my children, or my family leaves to me. Part of the American dream is working hard and to leave a better life for your family than what you had yourself.

[Mr.Kimball]

CM, for someone who has supported a rally cry against class warfare, and supported a stronger, larger middle class I am completely surprised you would support an inheritance tax or death tax. Those 2 taxes increase alone weaken the middle class. The govt has no right to any money I leave my children, or my family leaves to me. Part of the American dream is working hard and to leave a better life for your family than what you had yourself.

That is exactly right Beetle. That money or the money made to pay for the properties being passed on has already been taxed once. Heck, maybe even 2 or 3 times.

[Mr.Kimball]

I meandered a bit too much in my post. The point that I started to make is that people typically think of mom and pop grocery stores when they hear "family owned business," but retail stores are the tip of the iceberg. Large companies, especially manufacturing companies, support all sorts of small businesses besides retail stores. Engineering companies, janitorial services, machine shops, auto mechanics, temp services, and other family owned businesses have suffered huge hits as this country's manufacturing base has declined.

Wal-Marts do tend to suck the life out of small towns but I have noticed in larger towns and cities, their competitors like Target, Best Buy, and even K-Mart do pretty well and still leave enough business for the smaller stores. I miss the days when Paintsville had neither a Wal-Mart nor a McDonald's.

One of the things that I like best about the area where I am living now is the large number of family-owned restaurants. I have never lived in a place before where I could drive through and order pan-fried trout or order a catfish sandwich at a real drive-in with curb service. Mississippians are the fattest people on average in the country for good reason. :biggrin:

Are you trying to say you're gonna have to cut weight to wrestle this weekend?:biggrin:

[Hoot Gibson]

Are you trying to say you're gonna have to cut weight to wrestle this weekend?:biggrin:

It's safe to say that I have wrestled my last match in the 155 lb. class.:biggrin:

[TidesHoss32]

It's safe to say that I have wrestled my last match in the 155 lb. class.:biggrin:

I tried to wrestle at 155 but they wouldnt take 4 year olds

[Hoot Gibson]

I tried to wrestle at 155 but they wouldnt take 4 year olds

:thatsfunn I hated wrestling matches but I have never been in as good a shape in my life. No other sport that I have ever participated in comes close as a conditioning sport. Once I got down to 155, I had trouble keeping my weight near 155, while most of my teammates were having to sweat in rubber suits to cut weight. I have not had any trouble keeping my weight up since my hs wrestling days ended. :biggrin:

[TidesHoss32]

:thatsfunn I hated wrestling matches but I have never been in as good a shape in my life. No other sport that I have ever participated in comes close as a conditioning sport. Once I got down to 155, I had trouble keeping my weight near 155, while most of my teammates were having to sweat in rubber suits to cut weight. I have not had any trouble keeping my weight up since my hs wrestling days ended. :biggrin:

I hear ya there..I played football and baseball in high school, and boxed from my freshman year in '90 until '96..and although summer conditioning whipped you into shape pretty good, there was nothing like boxing for me. I was in great shape, and always fought around 215-222 (I can carry 235-240 easily lol)..after a doctor told me my fighting days were over, I ballooned up to over 330 lbs, and in November '98 I started training again, not to fight, but to just get back into shape, and by the summer of '99 I was back down to 220 lol..Im going to try it again as soon as I can get medically released. After my mining accident, Ive been pretty well stuck in a bed, and Ive ballooned out again, lol..but Im looking forward to getting back into shape. And yeah I knew some boys from Grundy, Va (where I fought) that wrestled, and they were some tough SOBs. Im not going to lie and pretend I know their training regiment, but from the guys I knew over there, they were flat out tough, and yessir, they were in somekind of shape..man Ive completely blown the topic out of the water, and for that I apologize, lol..

[thecavemaster]

CM, for someone who has supported a rally cry against class warfare, and supported a stronger, larger middle class I am completely surprised you would support an inheritance tax or death tax. Those 2 taxes increase alone weaken the middle class. The govt has no right to any money I leave my children, or my family leaves to me. Part of the American dream is working hard and to leave a better life for your family than what you had yourself.

I suggested that on the capital gains and inheritance taxes I would be flexible, if my opinion counted. Again, I am suggesting that the uber rich face the stiffest taxes in these areas, and I define uberrich as being almost able to point to your "estate" on a satellite map of the globe.

[Old School]

I suggested that on the capital gains and inheritance taxes I would be flexible, if my opinion counted. Again, I am suggesting that the uber rich face the stiffest taxes in these areas, and I define uberrich as being almost able to point to your "estate" on a satellite map of the globe.

In your opinion would you rather for the uberrich (as you refer to them) to pay more in taxes to our government (we all know how prudent they are with our money) or invest that money in business that would create jobs and add to our tax base?

[Beetle01]

What do you consider uber rich CM?

[thecavemaster]

In your opinion would you rather for the uberrich (as you refer to them) to pay more in taxes to our government (we all know how prudent they are with our money) or invest that money in business that would create jobs and add to our tax base?

You apparently believe that the uber rich, almost magically and with little account for human nature, thus human history, just magically do things that are best for the huddled masses. Strange notion, really.

[Hoot Gibson]

You apparently believe that the uber rich, almost magically and with little account for human nature, thus human history, just magically do things that are best for the huddled masses. Strange notion, really.

Not strange at all if you take an objective look at human history and geography. If you compare the plight of common folk in societies like ours where there are many of the people who you would describe as uber rich to ones in which there are few (and were) few such people, then it is clear that capitalism floats many people up to the middle class.

The notion that wealth does not trickle down in a booming economy is a strange one. Communism has failed every time that it has been tried and it has been tried many times. Sugar coating Marx's theories as you foment class warfare does not make his ideas any more palatable to those who actually understand human history.

[BIGREDDAWG]

It is obvious the government cannot handle the money they already take from us. They are spending crazy and not on very prudent things. Taking more, even from the affluent, is nothing but a ridiculous concept. Recipe for putting the next generations into further debt with no chance of getting out. IMHO the less government intervention we have in any area apart from national security and keeping up the highways and byways the better. The people of the US who work hard for their money deserve to keep it . . . no matter what "class" they fall in. We are actually pretty smart people and probably know more of what is best for us than "Good "ole greedy Uncle Sam.