[Commanche]

This is the most absurd thing I have read and I think this is my first thread that I have started.

Any Coach who would do this puts his own agenda ahead of the wellfare of the Pitcher. This time of year on a warm night 70 pitches should be the max, 50 on a chilly night. This is the time of year most pitchers arms are hurt.

As I posted on that thread, I have a SOLUTION! There is tons of literature out there on this subject. All Coaches should have to study this and pass a test on the subject matter before being hired. Then if this situation occurs, FIRE HIM ON THE SPOT. These standards are to protect the kid from injury, not to limit the so called coaches ability to win.

This Pitcher will suffer in all likelihood arm fatigue and probably not fully recover until mid May or possibly after the season.

NO GAME IS WORTH HURTING A PLAYERS FUTURE

[itzAmazing]

143 in a High School game? Absurd is the right word.

[Mr.Kimball]

Nobody at any level throws 143 piches. I just got home from watching my son get pulled on a 95 pitch count and he is a senior in COLLEGE, and they have been playing for two months now. You are absolutely right. If he doesn't know any better than to pull a stunt like that, then I agree. HE SHOULD BE FIRED ON THE SPOT.

[fanatic11]

Wow, that coach is completely out of his mind. I have unfortunately seen too many young pitchers ruined from over-use. This coach obviously has no respect or care for his players. Regardless of the circumstance, he should be barred from coaching ever again. There is a limit on what is considered pushing a player hard and going overboard.

[the dark wizard]

If you were there you would know. This kid has been throwing off the mound regularily since november. His arm is in great shape. I talked to him the day after. NO SORENESS! He is in great pitching shape to do this.

[Mr.Kimball]

If you were there you would know. This kid has been throwing off the mound regularily since november. His arm is in great shape. I talked to him the day after. NO SORENESS! He is in great pitching shape to do this.

As I said, my son is a senior in college and works out and throws 52 weeks a year, and he was held to 95 pitches just this friday night and was pitching great, in a conference game that actually means something.

There is no excuse for any coach at any level to pull a stunt like this.


I dont have to be there to know, I've been around it for a long time. What you dont understand is the irreversible wear and tear that comes with these stunts.

[643DP]

Here's one even better, Green Co. freshman throws 148 pitches against Montgomery Co. last night and yes, they have a 1st place trophy to prove it.

[kai]

140 is a little excessive, but not as bad as the post are making it out to be. Avg. pitch count is 115 to 120 for complete game. Kimball you cannot make connection between college, that have great relivers and high school. If your kid got pulled after 95 it probably due to time of game not pitch count in college. wear and tear on shoulder would only be a factor if he done this every third day, otherwise probablu not much of physical affect on kid.

[BlackcatAlum]

I'm sorry, but that's way too many pitches for anyone to be throwing.

Tommy John surgery is in the future if it continues.

[phs1986]

Little league even implemented pitch count rules due to the massive amount of pitching injuries incurred from "over" throwing.... To me, making sure your pitcher(s) can and are able to pitch on their next available date, do what you need to do to ensure good health of the arm and shoulder. Having a healthy, fresh arm is much better than a weary, spongy one throwing your pitches!

[mr.charlie hustle]

Here's one even better, Green Co. freshman throws 148 pitches against Montgomery Co. last night and yes, they have a 1st place trophy to prove it.

Two things I wonder about. One is wheither a 10 dollar trophy is worth a kid's arm and secondly why he had to make so many pitches. He obviously pitched down in the count a heck of a lot. It appears that most batters were in the box a long time????

[643DP]

Two things I wonder about. One is wheither a 10 dollar trophy is worth a kid's arm and secondly why he had to make so many pitches. He obviously pitched down in the count a heck of a lot. It appears that most batters were in the box a long time????

He had 6BB and 2HB. Montgomery is taught to be very disciplined at the plate, so they worked the count on him pretty good. MC didn't hit the ball very well, but they did work the count.

[Hitters_Count]

First off, the OP is incorrect in his/her information. I was at the game and ask the assistant coach about the number of pitches. I too was concerned about his total. The pitcher threw 113 pitches in 8 innings. That is border-line whether they should keep him in. I would dare to say had the game gone into the 9th, he would have been pulled.

Before you begin to crucify someone, please get your facts straight. His pitches consisted of mostly fastballs and change ups, with the occasional slider mixed in.

[Nishiki]

First let’s get all the facts about the game. Justin King threw 113 pitches total against Corbin not 143 this game actually went into an extra inning 8 total. Justin had 14 strikeouts three earned runs and gave up four hits 3 walks. In 8 innings he faced 34 hitters. He averaged around 15 pitches per inning. Don’t know about you but that sounds like pretty good balance and productivity. He only gave up 2 hits and two runs with 13 k’s in 7 innings. Justin was well rested and throws year round. He really struggled in the 8th coming through the heart of Corbin’s lineup which equated for the extra pitches. They only have one game this week Tuesday and then a tournament this weekend so he will receive a week off. This is not a normal thing and will never happen on a weekly bases. It was a great ball game with great team effort on both sides.

[mr.charlie hustle]

The original information was 143. At 113 it'S a lot of pitching but you could maybe live with it given proper follow up with the pitcher. Add 30 more ?

[mr.charlie hustle]

First let’s get all the facts about the game. Justin King threw 113 pitches total against Corbin not 143 this game actually went into an extra inning 8 total. Justin had 14 strikeouts three earned runs and gave up four hits 3 walks. In 8 innings he faced 34 hitters. He averaged around 15 pitches per inning. Don’t know about you but that sounds like pretty good balance and productivity. He only gave up 2 hits and two runs with 13 k’s in 7 innings. Justin was well rested and throws year round. He really struggled in the 8th coming through the heart of Corbin’s lineup which equated for the extra pitches. They only have one game this week Tuesday and then a tournament this weekend so he will receive a week off. This is not a normal thing and will never happen on a weekly bases. It was a great ball game with great team effort on both sides.

With this information it certainly has a much better ring. Sounds like a nice game.

[Uncle Fester]

I dont know if its a big deal or not. Cody Varney threw well over 100 pitches against Hazard and he just came out last week.

[PREACHER MAN]

As all ready stated, he only pitched 113 pitches total. He had just over 90 at the end of 7th inning. I know this family very well and I know that if there was any indication at all of his arm bothering him he would have been pulled. However, this game meant a lot to Justin. He would rather beat Corbin than any other team in the region. They would have had to draged him off the mound. His arm is fine. He throws year round and he knows his limitations. This is very out of the ordanary for coach Vanover to let a kid pitch this many pitches. My son played for him last year. He ALWAYS keeps up with the pitch count. I know that he is more worried about the safety and welfare of the kids than winning.There may be some stuff that I don't see eye to eye with him, but I know he cares for his players.

[the amarillo wizard]

Justin dominated corbin. His arm didnt hurt. Thats why he threw. He didnt throw 143 pitches. get your facts straight commanche. You must be another one of those corbin fans always crying and making excuses when they get beat

[Stardust]

113 or 143, big difference, but in Early April to go over 100 pitches is asking a lot of a young man that will be expected to throw in June as well.

I read in an earlier post that the young man has been throwing since November, as if that is an excuse. Let me first state, that Pitchers MUST have down time to let the arm recuperate. If a HS coach cannot get a young mans arm ready beginning in January, then there is an issue. But it does not sound like it's the coach. In this instance, it is the parent that has to take responsibility. Pitchers are to work on arm CONDITION over the Fall, not mechanics! I have been coaching at the HS level and the 17U level for a long time, and I just don't understand how parents are so ill educated when it comes to proerly care for their own children. The thought that repetition makes you stronger is completely insane. Repetition in November only makes an arm extinguished come MAY!

[Commanche]

Justin dominated corbin. His arm didnt hurt. Thats why he threw. He didnt throw 143 pitches. get your facts straight commanche. You must be another one of those corbin fans always crying and making excuses when they get beat

The facts came from the post Knox Central / Corbin. I probably like Corbin less than you.

[Commanche]

113 or 143, big difference, but in Early April to go over 100 pitches is asking a lot of a young man that will be expected to throw in June as well.

I read in an earlier post that the young man has been throwing since November, as if that is an excuse. Let me first state, that Pitchers MUST have down time to let the arm recuperate. If a HS coach cannot get a young mans arm ready beginning in January, then there is an issue. But it does not sound like it's the coach. In this instance, it is the parent that has to take responsibility. Pitchers are to work on arm CONDITION over the Fall, not mechanics! I have been coaching at the HS level and the 17U level for a long time, and I just don't understand how parents are so ill educated when it comes to proerly care for their own children. The thought that repetition makes you stronger is completely insane. Repetition in November only makes an arm extinguished come MAY!

Great post Dusty!

[dawgbyte02]

113 or 143, big difference, but in Early April to go over 100 pitches is asking a lot of a young man that will be expected to throw in June as well.

I read in an earlier post that the young man has been throwing since November, as if that is an excuse. Let me first state, that Pitchers MUST have down time to let the arm recuperate. If a HS coach cannot get a young mans arm ready beginning in January, then there is an issue. But it does not sound like it's the coach. In this instance, it is the parent that has to take responsibility. Pitchers are to work on arm CONDITION over the Fall, not mechanics! I have been coaching at the HS level and the 17U level for a long time, and I just don't understand how parents are so ill educated when it comes to proerly care for their own children. The thought that repetition makes you stronger is completely insane. Repetition in November only makes an arm extinguished come MAY!

From my own experience most high school coaches do not want any input or interference from parents. Now that being said, a good high school coach will give players an off season training program to follow. These coaches are very rare. I personally treat high school sports as an extra curricular activity for a well rounded development of the whole individual and leave the coaching and training to the coaches. I never attend practices and only sporadically attend games. It is up to my kids to earn playing time by hard work and perserverance. Now if a coach tells me that my kid needs to work on his pitching in the offseason I would not have a clue as to what he needs to do. What I would do is find the best pitching coach I could afford and send them for training. Most parents have not coached at the high school level and 17u level for a long time and therfore do not have the experience or knowledge to deal with sports physiolgy. Most coaches are only concerned with winning a game and are not the least bit interested in the total development, mind and body, of a future productive citizen like parents are. I give a standing ovation to a coach who sits a player for bad grades and loses a game, because he has won a much larger game. I am sure you are one of the coaches that educates your players and parents on proper training but very few coaches in high school sports do this.

[Stardust]

From my own experience most high school coaches do not want any input or interference from parents. Now that being said, a good high school coach will give players an off season training program to follow. These coaches are very rare. I personally treat high school sports as an extra curricular activity for a well rounded development of the whole individual and leave the coaching and training to the coaches. I never attend practices and only sporadically attend games. It is up to my kids to earn playing time by hard work and perserverance. Now if a coach tells me that my kid needs to work on his pitching in the offseason I would not have a clue as to what he needs to do. What I would do is find the best pitching coach I could afford and send them for training. Most parents have not coached at the high school level and 17u level for a long time and therfore do not have the experience or knowledge to deal with sports physiolgy. Most coaches are only concerned with winning a game and are not the least bit interested in the total development, mind and body, of a future productive citizen like parents are. I give a standing ovation to a coach who sits a player for bad grades and loses a game, because he has won a much larger game. I am sure you are one of the coaches that educates your players and parents on proper training but very few coaches in high school sports do this.

Thank you for "getting it". As a coach, I have a rspnsibility to the young-man, first and foremost. It is my responsibility to take care of that individual. I do believe for the most part, coaches do share this same sense of responsibility, but you do have some that, as you say, will sacrafice all for the sake of a win.

When I made my comment about the parent, it was meant that the parent needs to be educated themselves to ensure that the player is protected. If a player is continuously abused, they need to make it a point to review the phylosphy of protection to the coach. I would never begrudge a parent of that type of inquiry.

[millertime_kc]

113 or 143, big difference, but in Early April to go over 100 pitches is asking a lot of a young man that will be expected to throw in June as well.

I read in an earlier post that the young man has been throwing since November, as if that is an excuse. Let me first state, that Pitchers MUST have down time to let the arm recuperate. If a HS coach cannot get a young mans arm ready beginning in January, then there is an issue. But it does not sound like it's the coach. In this instance, it is the parent that has to take responsibility. Pitchers are to work on arm CONDITION over the Fall, not mechanics! I have been coaching at the HS level and the 17U level for a long time, and I just don't understand how parents are so ill educated when it comes to proerly care for their own children. The thought that repetition makes you stronger is completely insane. Repetition in November only makes an arm extinguished come MAY!

Btw i am a very close friend of justin king's. I believe he knows his body and especially his arm better than some random HS coach talking like he knows how his body should feel. He has worked with minor league pitching coaches and goes to camps year-round. He doesnt throw 80 pitches off the hill everytime he toes the rubber. He only throws 30 even during the season. Oh yea...and his dad is more educated than all you big ediots on this stupid thread. Just so you know he was radared and hit 88 two days later chumps...

[Commanche]

Btw i am a very close friend of justin king's. I believe he knows his body and especially his arm better than some random HS coach talking like he knows how his body should feel. He has worked with minor league pitching coaches and goes to camps year-round. He doesnt throw 80 pitches off the hill everytime he toes the rubber. He only throws 30 even during the season. Oh yea...and his dad is more educated than all you big ediots on this stupid thread. Just so you know he was radared and hit 88 two days later chumps...

At least spell IDIOTS right, if your gonna call us that. Also there is so much literature out there on this subject. You must assume everyone is an idiot. Ask his minor league pitching coach if that isnt too many pitches on a cool night, I bet he is an idiot and will tell you that is too many as well. I am glad he hit 88 because if he continues to throw like this he wont for long.

[Hitters_Count]

I have a question for you Stardust.
How do the kids who pitch in the south keep live arms? They play Fall ball, Spring ball and Summer ball. They produce some of the best pitching on a regular basis year in and year out.

I am neither condoning or attacking the coach or parent, but if the kid is throwing on a regular basis then it could stand to reason his arm is in shape to throw 100 pitches. I think we dont see past our little world here in KY and assume we are experts because we read an article or attend a seminar on a particular subject.

[Commanche]

I have a question for you Stardust.
How do the kids who pitch in the south keep live arms? They play Fall ball, Spring ball and Summer ball. They produce some of the best pitching on a regular basis year in and year out.

I am neither condoning or attacking the coach or parent, but if the kid is throwing on a regular basis then it could stand to reason his arm is in shape to throw 100 pitches. I think we dont see past our little world here in KY and assume we are experts because we read an article or attend a seminar on a particular subject.

The kids in the South are throwing in warm weather and you can guarantee that someone is watching there pitch counts. Our weather in early high school season is too cool to be throwing many pitches at the first of the season. Alot of coaches disregard it because they are only worried about their season, i.e. high school, summer program etc. Each kid I assume is different, some may be able to throw more than others. The rotator cuff in your arm is built to rotate opposite the way it does when you pitch. That is why softball players can throw every game. It rotates the same way as the under arm softball pitch. Every Major leaguer has an off season as well. They may lift weights but they still rest their arms. I have heard from a minor league player that they max them out at 165 innings a year in his organization.

[LuvofMoney'9]

How and Why would one state 143 pitches when it is now being stated that he threw 113. MAJOR DIFFERENCE!

[Grand Slam]

This coach must be friends with Dusty "the arm killer" Baker