[dawg fan]

Who makes the call to pull pitchers? Head Coach? Well, who was the head coach that allowed the 112 pitches as an 8th grader? So Burton was in the strength and conditioning program at LC for 3 years, had zero injuries. Transfers, beginnings throwing a lot, and gets injured. Thus, it's LC's fault? Don't understand that. You didn't answer my question: Have you seen the conditioning program at LC for baseball? Personally? If not, then why are you blaming that?

Just for the record it is my undetstanding that cantrell hurt his arm in the summer throwing hay on a trailer. And just for the record it was not feltners hay wagon.

[dawg fan]

Really did not mean for this to be a lc only thread so what does your team have coming back?

[dawg fan]

I started with the year the injury happened. In shepherds case it had a lot to do with overuse and other variables when Randy was there but the injury happened afterwards. So yes of course he was involved during shepherds tenure but he had nothing to do with the strength and conditioning program. Pikeville could have contributed to the Burton's kid being injured, but all of his time in high school was spent at LC except for that one season. So he was also involved in the same strength program. As far as the strict pitch counts go, the first game I watched Shepherd threw 112 pitches in a complete game against Ryle as an 8th grader. That's not anywhere close to "strict pitch counts." I know you're trying to take up for your team and I don't think anything that is happening is intential or anything like that, but there is a definite pattern at an alarming rate. I'll put it to you in a very simple scenario, when a crime is committed they look at all the victims and try to find out their connection. If you do that in this case, their only connection is they all played at the same place with the same strength and conditioning program.

So keesee hurt his shoulder playing football for lc this year so is that on the baseball program. You really have to look what sports the kid is playing. If he is only playing baseball then you may something, when they are playing multiple sports its hard to say its all on the baseball program. Joe wallen broke his colorbone on a dirt bike over the summer is that on the baseball program

[baseball1974]

It doesn't matter "when" the injury happened. You guys are so caught up in it not being LC's fault that you're making uninformed uneducated statements that speaks volumes to why it will continue to happen. The actual act of the arm being hurt doesn't matter at all. What matters is how that kids arm was prepared and trained. When a baseball player lifts weights incorrectly it creates a rubber and type situation and sooner or later it will give out and that's science, not just my opinion. So regardless of where they were or what they were doing when it was injured, the same is true for all of them as to their weight training. As far as shepherd, every coach that had him was to blame. He should've never been throwing that much as a 14 year old at the varsity level or any level. I'm actually glad it happened when he was in high school because it allowed him to regain his dominance in college. It would've been more difficult for him if it'd happened during his college career. My advice, before you decide to comment on the situation, at least educate yourself a little bit.

[LCHSbulldogsalum]

It doesn't matter "when" the injury happened. You guys are so caught up in it not being LC's fault that you're making uninformed uneducated statements that speaks volumes to why it will continue to happen. The actual act of the arm being hurt doesn't matter at all. What matters is how that kids arm was prepared and trained. When a baseball player lifts weights incorrectly it creates a rubber and type situation and sooner or later it will give out and that's science, not just my opinion. So regardless of where they were or what they were doing when it was injured, the same is true for all of them as to their weight training. As far as shepherd, every coach that had him was to blame. He should've never been throwing that much as a 14 year old at the varsity level or any level. I'm actually glad it happened when he was in high school because it allowed him to regain his dominance in college. It would've been more difficult for him if it'd happened during his college career. My advice, before you decide to comment on the situation, at least educate yourself a little bit.

Please educate us. Tell all of us the LC weight program. Since you are blaming it. You must have first hand account of the program and how it is causing injuries. Nobody is getting "caught up" in this being LC's fault, but you are blaming LC with uncorroborated statements. Didn't you say you were a journalist? (thought I read that from you before) Did you write columns without research? If you wrote something without proving it fact, what could happen? So blaming the weight program, of which you have zero knowledge of, is poor quality.


And as Dawgfan state, the Cantrell injury was from WORKING ON A FARM! And what does pitching Varsity have to do with an arm injury? You said Shepherd shouldn't have been pitching at the varsity level at 14 years old. So, if he were pitching JV, he's be OK? If no 14 year old should be pitching from 60'6", then I guess we can cancel middle school and JV baseball for 99% of teams out there. Another ridiculous, unfounded statement.


I also agree that this thread has went to the crapper. And why is that? Because someone began a "LC pitchers can't stay healthy" statement with ridiculous claims to follow that up. Since you have pretty much ZERO knowledge (other than what you read from message boards) about LC baseball, why not refrain from commenting on them? That will solve a lot of problems.


As for talent coming back, JC will be really good on the mound. Paintsville will be very solid. Both could get beat by SC if Osborne is pitching.

[Bob Seger]

It doesn't matter "when" the injury happened. You guys are so caught up in it not being LC's fault that you're making uninformed uneducated statements that speaks volumes to why it will continue to happen. The actual act of the arm being hurt doesn't matter at all. What matters is how that kids arm was prepared and trained. When a baseball player lifts weights incorrectly it creates a rubber and type situation and sooner or later it will give out and that's science, not just my opinion. So regardless of where they were or what they were doing when it was injured, the same is true for all of them as to their weight training. As far as shepherd, every coach that had him was to blame. He should've never been throwing that much as a 14 year old at the varsity level or any level. I'm actually glad it happened when he was in high school because it allowed him to regain his dominance in college. It would've been more difficult for him if it'd happened during his college career. My advice, before you decide to comment on the situation, at least educate yourself a little bit.

lol....Lookout, 1974..You are now only seconds away from LCHSAlumnus/Dawgeers/LCHSbulldogsalum starting a thread to try to get them to suspend you for speaking blasphemy against and bashing the LC kids...nicker:

nicker:

[baseball1974]

Shepherd should have been at the varsity level, but there is no sensible human being that would agree that a 14 year old kid should be throwing once a week at over 100+ pitches a game. I would love to educate you, but it's pretty obvious to everyone that your level of comprehension isn't quite there yet. You didn't quite understand what I said about Shepherd. I tried to explain to you that whatever the act was when the arm was hurt has nothing to do with why it was injured. That's medical accuracy and facts. I realize that never plays into decision making with you all, but when I have an opinion about something I educate myself on every angle of it, most logical people do. I do not know the weight program and I don't need to know it. I know enough about this issue to tell you and anyone else from Louisa the pattern in which your baseball players are experiencing arm injuries are at an alarming rate. That can only be attributed to a few reasons and in most cases it is improper weight training and general overuse. There are cases where it has been more mechanical but the majority of statistics point towards the weights and in particular how pitchers are lifting that weight. I could care less about the name of the school where it's happening. I would have the same opinion regardless. I think you have a great plan to get on with the thread because it's not productive for me to keep repeating myself and you not understand what I'm saying. Maybe when the next kid has arm surgery you or a parent will step-in and start asking questions on those kid's behalf instead of continuing to be misguided and defensive over someone bringing it to your attention. If not, it won't be long before the KHSAA begins regulating the issue like other states have started to do and it'll get addressed that way. Either way, I wish you luck.

[Bob Seger]

I think that with Shepherd it was inevitable that his was coming...He threw hard but had very poor mechanics early on. However, after his surgery they did change.


I could never understand either why you would have a kid that threw upper 80's and touching 90, throwing 50+ % curve balls against 15th region competition.

[dawg fan]

Please educate us. Tell all of us the LC weight program. Since you are blaming it. You must have first hand account of the program and how it i causing injuries. Nobody is getting "caught up" in this being LC's fault, but you are blaming LC with uncorroborated statements. Didn't you say you were a journalist? (thought I read that from you before) Did you write columns without research? If you wrote something without proving it fact, what could happen? So blaming the weight program, of which you have zero knowledge of, is poor quality.



And as Dawgfan state, the Cantrell injury was from WORKING ON A FARM! And what does pitching Varsity have to do with an arm injury? You said Shepherd shouldn't have been pitching at the varsity level at 14 years old. So, if he were pitching JV, he's be OK? If no 14 year old should be pitching from 60'6", then I guess we can cancel middle school and JV baseball for 99% of teams out there. Another ridiculous, unfounded statement.


I also agree that this thread has went to the crapper. And why is that? Because someone began a "LC pitchers can't stay healthy" statement with ridiculous claims to follow that up. Since you have pretty much ZERO knowledge (other than what you read from message boards) about LC baseball, why not refrain from commenting on them? That will solve a lot of problems.


As for talent coming back, JC will be really good on the mound. Paintsville will be very solid. Both could get beat by SC if Osborne is pitching.

I know jc has several good pitchers but who else do they have comining back that will be key players for them, I know pitching is very important but I have never seen a team win without scoring a run. I am not saying jc does not have any hitters just seeing who your teams key returning players will be, or who are you looking to have a breakout year for your favorite team.

[baseball1974]

I know jc has several good pitchers but who else do they have comining back that will be key players for them, I know pitching is very important but I have never seen a team win without scoring a run. I am not saying jc does not have any hitters just seeing who your teams key returning players will be, or who are you looking to have a breakout year for your favorite team.

Pitching and defense plays a much bigger role in winning a region than offense. Good coaches can manufacture runs. It's not like JC hasn't done it before. They've won the region before with the fourth and fifth offense in the region, and it's much better than that this year.

[baseball1974]

I think that with Shepherd it was inevitable that his was coming...He threw hard but had very poor mechanics early on. However, after his surgery they did change.


I could never understand either why you would have a kid that threw upper 80's and touching 90, throwing 50+ % curve balls against 15th region competition.

That does have a huge question mark to it. It would have been much more productive for him if he'd been taught a good changeup while still in middle school and he could've used that as his go to breaking pitch all through high school. He ended up going to college without that in his pitch selection. A smart pitcher like him could've easily developed a great changeup.

I think you're correct in that it was inevitable. The way he threw and the amount of stress he put on his upper body when he threw was going to cause him problems

[Bob Seger]

I always thought that his mechanics were geared towards throwing a curve ball even when he threw a fastball.He had a very short stride and his delivery came over the top. Basicly he was just throwing all arm with a violent whip motion. It allowed him to get on top of the ball but the torque that he created had to put a tremendous amount of stress on his elbow. Ultimately that is indeed what happened. I can't help but think that after the surgery that his mechanics were not addressed with someone knowledgable because they did indeed change.

[LCHSbulldogsalum]

That does have a huge question mark to it. It would have been much more productive for him if he'd been taught a good changeup while still in middle school and he could've used that as his go to breaking pitch all through high school. He ended up going to college without that in his pitch selection. A smart pitcher like him could've easily developed a great changeup.

I think you're correct in that it was inevitable. The way he threw and the amount of stress he put on his upper body when he threw was going to cause him problems

You guys are truly clueless. Why must you all continue talking about pitchers, or players, from LC that you see a couple of times maximum a year and base your arguments on when you see them? What if I said when I watched one of JC's pitchers pitch, he was 50% curveballs and that's a shame? It would be wrong of me.

Chandler Shepherd had 3 pitches: FB, CB, CH. Claims that he threw "50 % curveballs" is absolutely ridiculous. Did you chart every pitch? HALF of what you called a curve was a change. I was very close to the program during his time there, and he was at least 75% fastballs.

[LCHSbulldogsalum]

I always thought that his mechanics were geared towards throwing a curve ball even when he threw a fastball.He had a very short stride and his delivery came over the top. Basicly he was just throwing all arm with a violent whip motion. It allowed him to get on top of the ball but the torque that he created had to put a tremendous amount of stress on his elbow. Ultimately that is indeed what happened. I can't help but think that after the surgery that his mechanics were not addressed with someone knowledgable because they did indeed change.

Nice, Bob. Stick with JC and their coaches and players. Something you may have some knowledge about yourself. Instead of your slanders and innuendoes about LC, which you say you don't care about yet post 90% about.

[Bob Seger]

Nice, Bob. Stick with JC and their coaches and players. Something you may have some knowledge about yourself. Instead of your slanders and innuendoes about LC, which you say you don't care about yet post 90% about.

You are about the most sensitive little tot I think I have ever run across, LCHSAlumnus/Dawgeers/LCHSbulldogalum..

If there was nothing wrong with them before, why were they changed?

Slanders and innuendos? Where did you see one of them at you BIG CRYBABBY?:Sad04::Sad04::Sad04:....lol

[Bob Seger]

You guys are truly clueless. Why must you all continue talking about pitchers, or players, from LC that you see a couple of times maximum a year and base your arguments on when you see them? What if I said when I watched one of JC's pitchers pitch, he was 50% curveballs and that's a shame? It would be wrong of me. Chandler Shepherd had 3 pitches: FB, CB, CH. Claims that he threw "50 % curveballs" is absolutely ridiculous. Did you chart every pitch? HALF of what you called a curve was a change. I was very close to the program during his time there, and he was at least 75% fastballs.

I didn't chart them but I saw the charts and you are full of it too if that is what you are claiming...It was always common talk in the stands too of why would you have a flame thrower that nobody could catch up to throwing all those breaking balls.You just like to argue just for the sake of arguing.

Nope you would be spot on.....High school kids don't need to be throwing anything near that.

[LCHSbulldogsalum]

I didn't chart them but I saw the charts and you are full of it too if that is what you are claiming...It was always common talk in the stands too of why would you have a flame thrower that nobody could catch up to throwing all those breaking balls.You just like to argue just for the sake of arguing.

Nope you would be spot on.....High school kids don't need to be throwing anything near that.

I may be wrong about 1 thing. Perhaps you don't know the difference between a curveball and a change up? :biglmao: I assumed you did. And not that it's a big deal, but if I were all three of those people you put up there, why would my first name lchsalumnus (which got banned) and lchsbulldogsalum be similar in name, not hiding the fact that's who I am, yet the third one is "dawgeers" and drastically different? Makes no sense to me, but I guess perfect to you? Oh well. Believe what you want. It really isn't a big deal.


And I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing. I'm arguing because you are wrong.

[Bob Seger]

Uh huh!!

[dawg fan]

Does nobody have any key players returning? I have listed who l believe lc has coming back but seen who anybody else has coming back. I think cantrell returning will be hugh for lc as he is a good hitter and can play 1st, 2nd, 3ird, catcher, and pitch. This allowes feltner to use keesee, turner, and coverdale on the mound to eat up innings without losing any talent at the plate.

[Do-double-gg]

I may be wrong about 1 thing. Perhaps you don't know the difference between a curveball and a change up? :biglmao: I assumed you did. And not that it's a big deal, but if I were all three of those people you put up there, why would my first name lchsalumnus (which got banned) and lchsbulldogsalum be similar in name, not hiding the fact that's who I am, yet the third one is "dawgeers" and drastically different? Makes no sense to me, but I guess perfect to you? Oh well. Believe what you want. It really isn't a big deal.


And I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing. I'm arguing because you are wrong.

[Image: http://rs2img.memecdn.com/please-dont-fe...574238.jpg] :biggrin:

[baseball1974]

Does nobody have any key players returning? I have listed who l believe lc has coming back but seen who anybody else has coming back. I think cantrell returning will be hugh for lc as he is a good hitter and can play 1st, 2nd, 3ird, catcher, and pitch. This allowes feltner to use keesee, turner, and coverdale on the mound to eat up innings without losing any talent at the plate.

I don't think anyone is interested in replying about topic of the thread. After awhile everyone tends to get really tired of hearing how anybody that doesn't think LC is a contender in every sport is either stupid or they must have something against someone in LC. Even when presented with facts or science that can't be disputed, you still find a way, because no one would bring up facts or science against LC unless they had something against LC, right? If you want to know why nobody is responding to this thread in relation to the topic, then you need to look at replies that yourself and other LC posters make every time someone has an opinion that goes against your own. Unfortunately, the only people that share your same opinion live in Lawrence County. I have no ties to any team in the 15th nor do I have any reason to have a negative opinion on a personal level against any team. If anything, I have more positive personal ties to LC than any other team in the 15th. I call everything as I see it and I have knowledge and facts to back up anything I say. So with that in mind, I have no issue with anyone taking up for their team, but if I'm going to have a discussion with someone then I expect them to know the area they're arguing about. In this particular case regarding the injuries, that was not the case, and regardless of how many facts or scientific and medical statistics I gave, all I got back was nonsense. So obviously I gave up. That same type of interaction is a direct reason of why nobody is interested in getting into conversation with any of you all about anything. I realize you all are most likely parents/players or a coach of some sort, so I get taking up for your program, but at some point common sense should take over needing to be right.

[LCHSbulldogsalum]

I don't think anyone is interested in replying about topic of the thread. After awhile everyone tends to get really tired of hearing how anybody that doesn't think LC is a contender in every sport is either stupid or they must have something against someone in LC. Even when presented with facts or science that can't be disputed, you still find a way, because no one would bring up facts or science against LC unless they had something against LC, right? If you want to know why nobody is responding to this thread in relation to the topic, then you need to look at replies that yourself and other LC posters make every time someone has an opinion that goes against your own. Unfortunately, the only people that share your same opinion live in Lawrence County. I have no ties to any team in the 15th nor do I have any reason to have a negative opinion on a personal level against any team. If anything, I have more positive personal ties to LC than any other team in the 15th. I call everything as I see it and I have knowledge and facts to back up anything I say. So with that in mind, I have no issue with anyone taking up for their team, but if I'm going to have a discussion with someone then I expect them to know the area they're arguing about. In this particular case regarding the injuries, that was not the case, and regardless of how many facts or scientific and medical statistics I gave, all I got back was nonsense. So obviously I gave up. That same type of interaction is a direct reason of why nobody is interested in getting into conversation with any of you all about anything. I realize you all are most likely parents/players or a coach of some sort, so I get taking up for your program, but at some point common sense should take over needing to be right.

I just want to remind you that you're responsible for this thread going south. To remind you, here is what you replied with after the original poster asked what people's thought was about their favorite team:

I've never seen a program with so many arm injuries. I hope they all stay healthy this year.

Nowhere, nowhere did the original question center around LC injuries of the past. You could easily have posted about teams you know about. Or, since you said you don't really have a tie to any team, simply refrain from replying?

[Bob Seger]

Or you could have just let him have his opinion and that would have been the end of that. Probably not another word would have been said......but nooooooooooooo, you just cant leave it alone, can you LCHSAlum/dawgeers/LCHSbulldogalum? You have a compulsion to argue about it till the end of time comes on every little thing that doesn't amount to a hill of beans.....I would suggest seeing a shrink, but I would say it takes months or possibly years to see one in Lawrence Co., due to overcrowding from LC sports fans.

[LCHSbulldogsalum]

Or you could have just let him have his opinion and that would have been the end of that. Probably not another word would have been said......but nooooooooooooo, you just cant leave it alone, can you LCHSAlum/dawgeers/LCHSbulldogalum? You have a compulsion to argue about it till the end of time comes on every little thing that doesn't amount to a hill of beans.....I would suggest seeing a shrink, but I would say it takes months or possibly years to see one in Lawrence Co., due to overcrowding from LC sports fans.

Says the guy who cannot allow a thread go by without posting negative things about LC nor allow me to have my opinions. Hmm....pot meet kettle. :Thumbs:

Bob, didn't see many replies to JC threads. Why is that? Only LC? Oh, yeah, you don't have any opinion on LC or anything like that....I remember, you don't "care" about LC. :biglmao: Sure do have a funny way of showing that.

[Bob Seger]

Says the guy who cannot allow a thread go by without posting negative things about LC nor allow me to have my opinions. Hmm....pot meet kettle. :Thumbs:

Bob, didn't see many replies to JC threads. Why is that? Only LC? Oh, yeah, you don't have any opinion on LC or anything like that....I remember, you don't "care" about LC. :biglmao: Sure do have a funny way of showing that.

And just how did I know that you couldn't just leave my post alone and let it die.:Clap:


Thanks for proving my point LCHSAlum/dawgeers/LCHSbulldogsalum. You make this soooooooo easy.:Thumbs:

[LCHSbulldogsalum]

And just how did I know that you couldn't just leave my post alone and let it die.:Clap:


Thanks for proving my point LCHSAlum/dawgeers/LCHSbulldogsalum. You make this soooooooo easy.:Thumbs:

Pot meet kettle.......nicker:

[Pupaw]

Mechanics can play a large factor in arm injuries, as do pitch selection. I've always thought LC's staff has pitched backwards over the years. Even with their power arms. Chandler for instance, he had a devastating slider/curve and he threw it very hard (for the high school level) and it's obviously going to put a lot of strain on the elbow with as much torque as he generated. I'm not saying that's the sole reason for his arm injury, but it could have certainly played a factor.
Same goes for the rest of their injuries in the past. To me, pitch selection is far too overlooked when it comes to injuries. Mechanics help everything work together fluidly, and if one thing is off it causes other muscles to compensate to make up for deficiencies and more times than not eventually end up in an injury.

[Bob Seger]

Mechanics can play a large factor in arm injuries, as do pitch selection. I've always thought LC's staff has pitched backwards over the years. Even with their power arms. Chandler for instance, he had a devastating slider/curve and he threw it very hard (for the high school level) and it's obviously going to put a lot of strain on the elbow with as much torque as he generated. I'm not saying that's the sole reason for his arm injury, but it could have certainly played a factor.
Same goes for the rest of their injuries in the past. To me, pitch selection is far too overlooked when it comes to injuries. Mechanics help everything work together fluidly, and if one thing is off it causes other muscles to compensate to make up for deficiencies and more times than not eventually end up in an injury.

Uh Oh Pupaw, you've went and done it now...Bashing LC's players, coaches and all.

Don't be surprised if LCHSAlumus/dawgeers/LCHSbulldogsalum doesn't start a thread to get you banned for this unwarranted blasphemy against the "dawg" nation.:biggrin:

[dawg fan]

So no one has any key players returning? I no paintsville returns a lot but what about the floyd and pike county teams.

[dawg fan]

I don't think anyone is interested in replying about topic of the thread. After awhile everyone tends to get really tired of hearing how anybody that doesn't think LC is a contender in every sport is either stupid or they must have something against someone in LC. Even when presented with facts or science that can't be disputed, you still find a way, because no one would bring up facts or science against LC unless they had something against LC, right? If you want to know why nobody is responding to this thread in relation to the topic, then you need to look at replies that yourself and other LC posters make every time someone has an opinion that goes against your own. Unfortunately, the only people that share your same opinion live in Lawrence County. I have no ties to any team in the 15th nor do I have any reason to have a negative opinion on a personal level against any team. If anything, I have more positive personal ties to LC than any other team in the 15th. I call everything as I see it and I have knowledge and facts to back up anything I say. So with that in mind, I have no issue with anyone taking up for their team, but if I'm going to have a discussion with someone then I expect them to know the area they're arguing about. In this particular case regarding the injuries, that was not the case, and regardless of how many facts or scientific and medical statistics I gave, all I got back was nonsense. So obviously I gave up. That same type of interaction is a direct reason of why nobody is interested in getting into conversation with any of you all about anything. I realize you all are most likely parents/players or a coach of some sort, so I get taking up for your program, but at some point common sense should take over needing to be right.

You must admit that your first response had nothing to do with the topic. You had made your feelings known about the coaching staff earlier in another thread. Even through you admitted that you have not seen lc play but a couple times in 30 years. But I will give you this it has made me think a little bit and I will be keeping a closer eye my sons use at pitching. And you may want to take some of your advice at some point common sense should take over you needing to be right.