[Bob Seger]

Do you mean win 1 game at the state tournament or win the whole thing?

I was responding about getting out of those respective regions.

[Bob Seger]

Postseason in Kentucky is single elimination with only one state champion. Winning four games in 5 or 6 days, depending on your draw will favor a school with 1,500 or more students, and private schools.

It favors teams that are comprised of pitching depth. More so now with the new setup, and I agree that numbers should give you an advantage, but there are schools that may not be as large enrollment wise, that can compete with any of them.

[rawlingsfan]

Competing for a game, or even two games yes. Four games no way. There's pitchers in Louisville/Lexington that aren't good enough to pitch for the varsity team that would be the aces or #2 at several schools in EKy. How many teams from the 13th, 14th, or15th have a freshman team? Most barely have enough to field a jv team year to year.

[TPX]

Oh I see....I'll bet you are one of EXPERTS that said none of them could have won at the state tournament too...lol


It's a good thing we have your type out there that knows all...nicker:

I never said win a one game series was impossible. Winning the region, let alone even making the region would be almost impossible for some of those teams. Good grief go look at Tates Creek's district. Talk about a gauntlet. Sorry there is no Sheldon Clark, Allen Central or East Ridge post season games for those regions. Again that is not a knock on any of those schools. They compete fine for the area they are in and the numbers they are given.

[Fly By Night]

I never said win a one game series was impossible. Winning the region, let alone even making the region would be almost impossible for some of those teams. Good grief go look at Tates Creek's district. Talk about a gauntlet. Sorry there is no Sheldon Clark, Allen Central or East Ridge post season games for those regions. Again that is not a knock on any of those schools. They compete fine for the area they are in and the numbers they are given.

The 43rd District is tough.

(1) Tates Creek 33-7-1

(6) Lexington Catholic 23-14

(8) Lafayette 22-12

(11) Lexington Christian 20-15

(18) Dunbar 19-15

[baseball1974]

This will always be a debate until they get a class system and from what Julian Tacket has said, that's not going to happen.

[Fly By Night]

I was responding about getting out of those respective regions.

After watching EKY baseball for about 7 years, I have watched central and northern KY baseball over the past 3 seasons. My conclusion is that there is much more depth of talent in the schools away from EKY.

I understand that from time to time that there will be a Lawrence County of 2008 that makes it to the State Final or Boyd County from 2001 or East Carter from 1984 that wins the whole thing; however, the majority of the best baseball teams are in the 5th through 11th regions in the state of Kentucky. 14 of the past 17 state champions have been from the 5th through the 11th regions. (The 2nd region had 2 and the 16th had 1 during this period of time.)

Recent Champions

2014 St Xavier - Region 7
2013 PRP - Region 6
2012 Woodford County - Region 11
2011 Central Hardin - Region 5
2010 Harrison County - Region 10
2009 Lexington Catholic - Region 11
2008 PRP - Region 6
2007 Dunbar - Region 11
2006 Lexinton Catholic - Region 11
2005 Lexington Christian - Region 11
2004 Christian County - Region 2
2003 Dunbar - Region 11
2002 Covington Catholic - Region 9
2001 Boyd County - Region 16
2000 Henderson County - Region 2
1999 Lexington Catholic - Region 11
1998 Harrison County - Region 10

[Bob Seger]

After watching EKY baseball for about 7 years, I have watched central and northern KY baseball over the past 3 seasons. My conclusion is that there is much more depth of talent in the schools away from EKY.

I understand that from time to time that there will be a Lawrence County of 2008 that makes it to the State Final or Boyd County from 2001 or East Carter from 1984 that wins the whole thing; however, the majority of the best baseball teams are in the 5th through 11th regions in the state of Kentucky. 14 of the past 17 state champions have been from the 5th through the 11th regions. (The 2nd region had 2 and the 16th had 1 during this period of time.)

Recent Champions

2014 St Xavier - Region 7
2013 PRP - Region 6
2012 Woodford County - Region 11
2011 Central Hardin - Region 5
2010 Harrison County - Region 10
2009 Lexington Catholic - Region 11
2008 PRP - Region 6
2007 Dunbar - Region 11
2006 Lexinton Catholic - Region 11
2005 Lexington Christian - Region 11
2004 Christian County - Region 2
2003 Dunbar - Region 11
2002 Covington Catholic - Region 9
2001 Boyd County - Region 16
2000 Henderson County - Region 2
1999 Lexington Catholic - Region 11
1998 Harrison County - Region 10

I will not as argue with those points at all...It always boils down to pitching for an EKy team to make it very far......The Boyd Co. teams are always loaded with pitching, and the ones from the 15th and 16th that have done well at the state tournament the last few years (i.e. Johnson Central, Pikeville, Lawrence Co., Greenup Co., Boyd Co., and Ashland) had at least one pitcher in the good as anybody else in the state category, but I do think that overall team offense and depth is probably not as strong and that is usually their Achilles heel. But those teams that I mentioned have to be able to put back to back stoppers on the mound to advance...........You failed to mention the Paintsville '89 and '90 teams that went to the finals back to back, with a state championship in '90.

[Bob Seger]

Competing for a game, or even two games yes. Four games no way. There's pitchers in Louisville/Lexington that aren't good enough to pitch for the varsity team that would be the aces or #2 at several schools in EKy. How many teams from the 13th, 14th, or15th have a freshman team? Most barely have enough to field a jv team year to year.

In the past 8 team format, winning two games can put you in the finals if you have two very good starters. The problem then is having a good #3, because in most cases bringing back your #1 to the finals is not usually something that is possible..The key now with the 16 team format is having a viable #3 that can eek you to a 3rd game win. That would allow you to bring back your #1 in the finals....Most schools, even from those power regions in most cases don't have 3 of them. However the '07 Dunbar team was loaded with power house arms .....Bottom line is that you have to have a very good #3 to get you to that point in either format.....I think this year that Johnson and Paintsville both will fall into that category....Too bad they both play in the 57th.

[Fly By Night]

I will not as argue with those points at all...It always boils down to pitching for an EKy team to make it very far......The Boyd Co. teams are always loaded with pitching, and the ones from the 15th and 16th that have done well at the state tournament the last few years (i.e. Johnson Central, Pikeville, Lawrence Co., Greenup Co., Boyd Co., and Ashland) had at least one pitcher in the good as anybody else in the state category, but I do think that overall team offense and depth is probably not as strong and that is usually their Achilles heel. But those teams that I mentioned have to be able to put back to back stoppers on the mound to advance...........You failed to mention the Paintsville '89 and '90 teams that went to the finals back to back, with a state championship in '90.

I didn't mention all of the EKY schools, but now that you mentioned it, I will include all the state champion baseball schools from EKY.

http://khsaa.org/handbook/winners/bawinners.pdf

1948 Prestonsburg
1966 Ashland
1967 Ashland
1968 Ashland
1984 East Carter
1990 Paintsville
2001 Boyd County

[TPX]

In the past 8 team format, winning two games can put you in the finals if you have two very good starters. The problem then is having a good #3, because in most cases bringing back your #1 to the finals is not usually something that is possible..The key now with the 16 team format is having a viable #3 that can eek you to a 3rd game win. That would allow you to bring back your #1 in the finals....Most schools, even from those power regions in most cases don't have 3 of them. However the '07 Dunbar team was loaded with power house arms .....Bottom line is that you have to have a very good #3 to get you to that point in either format.....I think this year that Johnson and Paintsville both will fall into that category....Too bad they both play in the 57th.

It goes deeper than that when we are talking about getting out of the 6th,7th or 11th region vs. a 13th,14th 15th or 16th region. You really have no freebies where you can throw your number 3 and not worry about eating up another pitcher. In those regions most teams number 2 or 3 is not throwing a complete game win. That would force them to go to the next best available down the line. Take that over a 3 game region tournament and I don't see any of the mountain region teams being able to run the gauntlet. The only exception I have seen was when Jody Hamilton was at Boyd County. They fielded legit state title threats on multiple occasions and it all started with his pitching staffs. On the other hand as good as he is as a coach (Top 5 in the entire state) he has struggled to get out of the 12th with some good West Jessamine teams. Those same West Jessamine teams have probably 5 or 6 titles since he has been there if they were in the 13th,14th,15th or 16th. What Mac Whittaker has accomplished is beyond remarkable and goes against logic in this case. That is why he is the best coach in the state of KY bar none.

[TPX]

I didn't mention all of the EKY schools, but now that you mentioned it, I will include all the state champion baseball schools from EKY.

http://khsaa.org/handbook/winners/bawinners.pdf

1948 Prestonsburg
1966 Ashland
1967 Ashland
1968 Ashland
1984 East Carter
1990 Paintsville
2001 Boyd County

All of those champions only had to deal with a 2 game series. The old formats of the 8 semi-states where 13th,14th,15th and 16th rotated and played another region champion a best of three after regionals and back to when the 13th,14th 15th and 16th region champions played for a spot in the final 4 were much more favorable to those regions.

[Bob Seger]

It goes deeper than that when we are talking about getting out of the 6th,7th or 11th region vs. a 13th,14th 15th or 16th region. You really have no freebies where you can throw your number 3 and not worry about eating up another pitcher. In those regions most teams number 2 or 3 is not throwing a complete game win. That would force them to go to the next best available down the line. Take that over a 3 game region tournament and I don't see any of the mountain region teams being able to run the gauntlet. The only exception I have seen was when Jody Hamilton was at Boyd County. They fielded legit state title threats on multiple occasions and it all started with his pitching staffs. On the other hand as good as he is as a coach (Top 5 in the entire state) he has struggled to get out of the 12th with some good West Jessamine teams. Those same West Jessamine teams have probably 5 or 6 titles since he has been there if they were in the 13th,14th,15th or 16th. What Mac Whittaker has accomplished is beyond remarkable and goes against logic in this case. That is why he is the best coach in the state of KY bar none.

Jody is a great coach, but he is not the one responsible for developing all those great Boyd Co. pitchers over the years....He was Jody's right hand man and is now the current head coach at Boyd.....Put Brandon Ramsey at West Jessamine for a few years and you might have seen a very different scenario...Anyways, I think Casey is now almost groomed to be the successor....


I will not dispute the 3 game setup that you have in the 11th region.. Winning that region is very similar to winning a state championship as far as difficulty....However, I DO NOT think that Tates Creek's top 3 last year was any better than Johnson Centrals top 3. (or Paintsville's for that matter)..They were vastly superior athletically throughout the lineup though. Who knows what would happen if JC played in the 11th last year. It all comes down to pitching, and if you can eek a run here or there, well who knows...There is nobody better at small ball than Shawn Hall, with his brother Mike right there with him.I will disagree about the 6th or the 7th though....In either region you see a pretty deep drop off after the top 3 teams...In fact I think the bottom of either region is no stronger than the bottom of the mountain regions...There are some pretty bad teams up there as well....Knock the favorite off in the district or the first round of the region with your stud and they would most definitely have a shot of coming out of either the 6th or the 7th.

[baseball1974]

Jody is a great coach, but he is not the one responsible for developing all those great Boyd Co. pitchers over the years....He was Jody's right hand man and is now the current head coach at Boyd.....Put Brandon Ramsey at West Jessamine for a few years and you might have seen a very different scenario...Anyways, I think Casey is now almost groomed to be the successor....


I will not dispute the 3 game setup that you have in the 11th region.. Winning that region is very similar to winning a state championship as far as difficulty....However, I DO NOT think that Tates Creek's top 3 last year was any better than Johnson Centrals top 3...They were vastly superior athletically throughout the lineup though. Who know what would happen if JC played in the 11th last year. It all comes down to pitching, and if you can eek a run here or there, well who knows...There is nobody better at small ball than Shawn Hall, with his brother Mike right there with him.I will disagree about the 6th or the 7th though....In either region you see a pretty deep drop off after the top 3 teams...In fact I think the bottom of either region is no stronger than the bottom of the mountain regions...There are some pretty bad teams up there as well....Knock the favorite off in the district or the first round of the region with your stud and they would most definitely have a shot of coming out of either the 6th or the 7th.

So Mike Hall is for sure on his staff this year? If so, that will definitely be the best 1/2 coaching combination in eastern KY. I always thought mike might be a little lazy to run his own program but having him as an assistant is a perfect situation for somebody. Definitely puts JC above everyone even more in the 15th.

[Bob Seger]

So Mike Hall is for sure on his staff this year? If so, that will definitely be the best 1/2 coaching combination in eastern KY. I always thought mike might be a little lazy to run his own program but having him as an assistant is a perfect situation for somebody. Definitely puts JC above everyone even more in the 15th.

Probably as a volunteer assistant, he is not currently employed by the school system.

[rawlingsfan]

Boyd County is in the east geographically and the BCHS enrollment is 800-900 students. But when Coach Hamilton was there they were not a typical EKy team. They carried 60+ kids & you could see them playing on three fields at once at Cocoa Beach over spring break. Boyd County has nearly 50,000 people and is now considered part of the Ashland- Huntington, WV-KY-OH Metropolitan Statistical Area. February 13, 2013 363,000 population.

[Bob Seger]

Boyd County is in the east geographically and the BCHS enrollment is 800-900 students. But when Coach Hamilton was there they were not a typical EKy team. They carried 60+ kids & you could see them playing on three fields at once at Cocoa Beach over spring break. Boyd County has nearly 50,000 people and is now considered part of the Ashland- Huntington, WV-KY-OH Metropolitan Statistical Area. February 13, 2013 363,000 population.

Oh, I am very familiar with Boyd Co. ....Boyd does not recruit, as they are all home grown developed talent mostly from the sticks of Boyd Co...They don't rely on transfers, so that point is null and void... I have had 3 sons coached by Ramsey and the Boyd staff at different points of their careers over the years, so I doubt that you can come up with an argument to top my first hand experience.

[LCHSbulldogsalum]

So Mike Hall is for sure on his staff this year? If so, that will definitely be the best 1/2 coaching combination in eastern KY. I always thought mike might be a little lazy to run his own program but having him as an assistant is a perfect situation for somebody. Definitely puts JC above everyone even more in the 15th.

I have a lot of respect for JC and Coach Shawn Hall. If it is true that Mike is on the staff, my level of respect will lower. Sorry, but Mike hasn't just made "mistakes", they have been BAD. Not going in to details on here. But if I had a kid (teenage), I would not want them to be mentored by Mike Hall. That's all I have to say. Shawn, from what I've observed and been told, seems to be a great mentor for young men out there.

[baseball1974]

I have a lot of respect for JC and Coach Shawn Hall. If it is true that Mike is on the staff, my level of respect will lower. Sorry, but Mike hasn't just made "mistakes", they have been BAD. Not going in to details on here. But if I had a kid (teenage), I would not want them to be mentored by Mike Hall. That's all I have to say. Shawn, from what I've observed and been told, seems to be a great mentor for young men out there.

Regardless it will help JC's team having him there. He has some issues running his own program and part of the reason they were ever successful was because of his ability to out coach most the of the other coaches he faced. As an assistant those issues won't come into play, partly due to Shawn running a good program and he's not going to let anyone get in the way of that, even his brother.

[Bob Seger]

This will always be a debate until they get a class system and from what Julian Tacket has said, that's not going to happen.

And just like basketball, I hope they never do.

[TPX]

Jody is a great coach, but he is not the one responsible for developing all those great Boyd Co. pitchers over the years....He was Jody's right hand man and is now the current head coach at Boyd.....Put Brandon Ramsey at West Jessamine for a few years and you might have seen a very different scenario...Anyways, I think Casey is now almost groomed to be the successor....


I will not dispute the 3 game setup that you have in the 11th region.. Winning that region is very similar to winning a state championship as far as difficulty....However, I DO NOT think that Tates Creek's top 3 last year was any better than Johnson Centrals top 3. (or Paintsville's for that matter)..They were vastly superior athletically throughout the lineup though. Who knows what would happen if JC played in the 11th last year. It all comes down to pitching, and if you can eek a run here or there, well who knows...There is nobody better at small ball than Shawn Hall, with his brother Mike right there with him.I will disagree about the 6th or the 7th though....In either region you see a pretty deep drop off after the top 3 teams...In fact I think the bottom of either region is no stronger than the bottom of the mountain regions...There are some pretty bad teams up there as well....Knock the favorite off in the district or the first round of the region with your stud and they would most definitely have a shot of coming out of either the 6th or the 7th.

Sorry I got to disagree with that. Brandon does a very good job, but he is not Jody Hamilton. Hamilton had won regions in 88,91,92,93 and 94 and had been to the state finals in 88 and semifinals in 93. This was before Ramsey ever coached with him. Almost everything Brandon and his staff does revolves around what they learned from playing under Jody. Again this is not a knock on Ramsey, he is a very good coach that runs a great program, but Jody Hamilton is the best baseball coach to ever coach in the mountain regions and it's really not close.

[Bob Seger]

So Charlie Adkins was not even close?

WOW!!


I believe you might have over stated that one just a tad.

[baseball1974]

So Charlie Adkins was not even close?

WOW!!


I believe you might have over stated that one just a tad.

I think there are several coaches that would dispute the "not even close" remark. People forget Charlie Adkins was working with around a 400 enrollment from 6th or 7th grade on. He also had the disadvantage of having ALL of his players playing other sports and probably couldn't have a full practice until the end of march. My idea of a "great" coach is somebody that can compete at an elite level with less than everyone else.

[baseball1974]

Zeke Meyers who was the coach for two of Ashland's state titles may also have a say in it and they also won the year after him, which he should get a lot of credit for as well since it was the same players, same coaches and the same system. We(Ashland) were also state runner-ups the following year as well. So four straight years they played in the state championship, winning three of them.

Charles Taylor had a lot of success in the mid-70's with Somerset winning both a state title and a state runner-up title.

I don't even think Randy Keeton is that far off from Jody. That use to be a tremendous rivalry between the two and he use to tell me every year how he just knew every year they'd get them in the post season.

[Bob Seger]

I think there are several coaches that would dispute the "not even close" remark. People forget Charlie Adkins was working with around a 400 enrollment from 6th or 7th grade on. He also had the disadvantage of having ALL of his players playing other sports and probably couldn't have a full practice until the end of march. My idea of a "great" coach is somebody that can compete at an elite level with less than everyone else.

And only half of them were boys.

[ky playmaker]

Southwestern has put together a pretty tough schedule this year. We will see how they fair soon.

west jess
henry clay
mercer
lafayette
hazard
covington catholic
dixie heights
trinity
north laurel twice
south laurel twice
somerset twice
bowling green
ryle

[ky playmaker]

Thats not counting

boyle
danville
russell co
lincoln
wayne
pulaski
knox central
rockcastle

ambitious schedule to say the least. gonna be fun seeing how they do

[LCHSbulldogsalum]

Classification needs to happen. It's a dinosaur system. How many states do not classify? So, if 99% of them classify, they are all wrong? This "tradition" argument I've been hearing for the past 3 years when classification comes up sickens me. Tradition is great, but if you want to modernize, sometimes tradition needs to be altered. I think classifying would be the right thing to do in baseball. As for basketball, who cares. I think that is also a dinosaur, but you only need 4-5 good players to make a run. In baseball and football, you better have 11+ to make a run. Schools with 2000 enrollment have the better shot. Schools with 1000+ enrollment, have a good shot. Teams with 600 or less, have a shot once every 20 years.

[TPX]

Zeke Meyers who was the coach for two of Ashland's state titles may also have a say in it and they also won the year after him, which he should get a lot of credit for as well since it was the same players, same coaches and the same system. We(Ashland) were also state runner-ups the following year as well. So four straight years they played in the state championship, winning three of them.

Charles Taylor had a lot of success in the mid-70's with Somerset winning both a state title and a state runner-up title.

I don't even think Randy Keeton is that far off from Jody. That use to be a tremendous rivalry between the two and he use to tell me every year how he just knew every year they'd get them in the post season.

I agree I somehow forget to mention Charlie Adkins. He was a legend and great coach, but Randy Keeton is not on the Jody Hamilton and Charlie Adkins level of accomplishments and coaching levels in my opinion. I think Randy Keeton did a nice job, but they rarely beat Boyd County when Jody Hamilton was there. Very few teams around the mountain regions did.

[Bean Counter]

Let's see....7 Region 11 teams and 6 Region 9 teams in the top 20. Totally hilarious and unsubstantiated poll. Really funny when you look at where most of these teams were last year when the state tourney started. I guess unless you're a school based in a metropolitan area (Lexington or Louisville), you shouldn't even bother fielding a team. Someone should tell Hazard, South Laurel and Southwestern not to bother.


Are you not remembering that it was Johnson Central that knocked off the #1 team in the state (Tates Creek) and then had the #3 team in the state (St. X) on the ropes in the second round of the state tournament.

Sorry Bob I was in such a hurry to respond to this insane post that I left Johnson Central out. You can join the club with the rest of us "non-factors".