[Big Red Machine]

Winning a regional championship is a big deal no matter what region it is. Most regions have a certain number of teams that compete for the championship year in and year out. Depending on the draw usually depends on how far you go. Take for instance the two years clay county won the region. The first year they drew Harrison County, the eventual champion that year. The second year they drew St. X who pitched a pitcher that is now playing for the Red Sox organization. They had no chance either game. Scheduling major league teams that year wouldn't have helped them win either game.
In order to win games at the state tournament level you have to have dominate pitching and no team in the 13th has the pitching depth to make a run at a state championship.

[walterwhite]

Winning a regional championship is a big deal no matter what region it is. Most regions have a certain number of teams that compete for the championship year in and year out. Depending on the draw usually depends on how far you go. Take for instance the two years clay county won the region. The first year they drew Harrison County, the eventual champion that year. The second year they drew St. X who pitched a pitcher that is now playing for the Red Sox organization. They had no chance either game. Scheduling major league teams that year wouldn't have helped them win either game.
In order to win games at the state tournament level you have to have dominate pitching and no team in the 13th has the pitching depth to make a run at a state championship.

I completely understand everything you said. It is a long shot that any 13th region team goes deep in the state tournament. Winning the region is a huge accomplishment. However, there's nothing wrong with striving to compete at the highest level. If you are not trying to, you never will for sure. I personally like the challenge of seeing just exactly where my team stands as far as top shelf competition is concerned. Of course that is just my opinion and it is no better than anyone else's. And I was there pulling hard for big clay in the state both years, so I know al about the bad draws. Go back to the final four year when they played Harrison county in the semis.

[Big Red Machine]

That's true. Clay has never had the best draw when they have made it.

[RicFlair]

I agree about the middle school being down, but if you noticed in the football threads the Middlesboro fans insist that has nothing to do with high school success.

Goes to show you what kind of people you're talking to

[FlippedOut]

Sorry, but middle school has not been down in baseball. Have had some very good players. Some have played up in 8th grade on the high school team. Players are here now. Some quit because of playing time early in high school and now back.

[HCS]

That's a good sign for Harlan County then. New Harlan beat them a couple of times last year, once 11-1. Some of the fans told me at a high school game last year the middle school was "way" down. I know New Harlan and Cumberland beat them the year before.
From the scores I saw, Bell was worse though.

No eighth graders listed on the high school roster last year, and surely they didn't skip middle school baseball to play a couple of innings of JV a couple of times a week.

[FlippedOut]

They have not BEEN down. Meaning these classes senior ,junior and soph this year will have players. If we look at last year we are talking about freshmen, that will not make a impact on this years team. You do see the difference, right. In three years we will talk about last years 8th grade.

[HCS]

So, you're agreeing they were down last year, which is what I was talking about to begin with. They weren't that good the year before either, but I do know the best player was starting for the high school team.
I just don't think the talent level at the high school is even close to what it was a few years ago.
I'd put Middlesboro second going into the year and they are capable of winning it, but if Hogue makes it back from his injury, getting out of the district won't be easy unless they get the No. 1 seed.

[Van Hagar]

Listen, not throwing off on Middlesboro, but as someone who has been closely involved with middle school baseball over the recent past, the truth is they haven't been good at all. We (North) run ruled them virtually every time we have met them over the last five years, granted we have been in a really good cycle of talent. And like HCS, I am a big believer in getting your clues about future success from the middle school, freshmen and jv levels. I think Middlesboro could struggle for the foreseeable future.

[baseball1974]

So, you're agreeing they were down last year, which is what I was talking about to begin with. They weren't that good the year before either, but I do know the best player was starting for the high school team.
I just don't think the talent level at the high school is even close to what it was a few years ago.
I'd put Middlesboro second going into the year and they are capable of winning it, but if Hogue makes it back from his injury, getting out of the district won't be easy unless they get the No. 1 seed.

2nd??? I'm confused on what you're basing that off of, unless you mean second in the district? That I'll agree with. The unfortunate reality is that Middlesboro hasn't been relevant since 2012. They've only won one regional tournament game since then, and that was to a below .500 team that had a weak schedule. I'm not sure if it is the feeder programs or what, but Middlesboro baseball is on a downward spiral. Good programs do NOT have to wait around on "talent" to show up. Good programs develop and maintain a consistent level of talent year-after-year.

[ky playmaker]

Its not just middlesboro's baseball program. It seems to be all the sports programs there.

[Hitters_Count]

Smaller schools go through cycles when there arent many athletes unless you actively recruit every year. M'Boro has some good athletes, but just not enough to be a regional contender at the moment.

[HCS]

2nd??? I'm confused on what you're basing that off of, unless you mean second in the district? That I'll agree with. The unfortunate reality is that Middlesboro hasn't been relevant since 2012. They've only won one regional tournament game since then, and that was to a below .500 team that had a weak schedule. I'm not sure if it is the feeder programs or what, but Middlesboro baseball is on a downward spiral. Good programs do NOT have to wait around on "talent" to show up. Good programs develop and maintain a consistent level of talent year-after-year.

I thought when I was talking about the No. 1 seed it would be obvious I meant the district.

[baseball1974]

I thought when I was talking about the No. 1 seed it would be obvious I meant the district.

That makes more sense.

[baseball1974]

Smaller schools go through cycles when there arent many athletes unless you actively recruit every year. M'Boro has some good athletes, but just not enough to be a regional contender at the moment.

So you're basically saying that every 1A or 2A school with a consistently good team is doing it by recruiting? That's silly. That's a slap-in-the-face to every good coach that has put time and effort into building a solid program. It does take a little bit of extra work, but building a solid program is doable at any school. I've even seen coaches that are not that knowledgable about the game, but still put out a consistently descent team because of the amount of work they put into it. I've also seen coaches that are very knowledgable but only have good teams when the talent shows up, because they don't put in the extra work needed. Talent is a bonus. You can have good solid teams with mediocre talent by teaching them work ethic and teamwork. If you want to show up in January and expect to compete for a regional title then you're going to be let down every year. Championships are won in the off-season.

[Hitters_Count]

I am saying that if smaller schools are regional contenders year in and year out, they have to get kids moving into their district. Statistics will show, there will be periods where the talent level is not top notch occasionally. I dont care if a coach works his guts out 12 months, if you dont have players, you dont have players. Smaller schools will have years when the male population is small and may not have many athletes.

[baseball1974]

I am saying that if smaller schools are regional contenders year in and year out, they have to get kids moving into their district. Statistics will show, there will be periods where the talent level is not top notch occasionally. I dont care if a coach works his guts out 12 months, if you dont have players, you dont have players. Smaller schools will have years when the male population is small and may not have many athletes.

That may be what you are use to, but that never has to be the case. A good coach can implement a system from middle school on up or even little league on up, that will develop players. If you have, or are, a coach that simply waits for talent then you need to get out of the game. The reality you describe is a sad situation.

[RicFlair]

That may be what you are use to, but that never has to be the case. A good coach can implement a system from middle school on up or even little league on up, that will develop players. If you have, or are, a coach that simply waits for talent then you need to get out of the game. The reality you describe is a sad situation.

Both of you are right, baseball isn't a game that's learned in just a couple years. It's not raw emotion and strength like football. But, small schools and even big schools go through cycles and that's just the reality of high school sports, especially in south east Kentucky.

As far as the middle school program being down, it is, and has been. Not that they haven't won many games it's just the kids aren't learning the game correctly and when they come to high school they're not ready.

[baseball1974]

Both of you are right, baseball isn't a game that's learned in just a couple years. It's not raw emotion and strength like football. But, small schools and even big schools go through cycles and that's just the reality of high school sports, especially in south east Kentucky.

As far as the middle school program being down, it is, and has been. Not that they haven't won many games it's just the kids aren't learning the game correctly and when they come to high school they're not ready.

Every school will go through cycles of having good athletes. That's common. However, the coaches that have programs where "teaching" the game is fundamental, will still be able to compete at a high level regardless of the personnel. When those coaches/programs do get those superior athletes they put themselves in position to bring home state titles. There were several programs around the state last year without supieror talent that won 30+ games. That happened because of the program already set in-place.

[RicFlair]

Every school will go through cycles of having good athletes. That's common. However, the coaches that have programs where "teaching" the game is fundamental, will still be able to compete at a high level regardless of the personnel. When those coaches/programs do get those superior athletes they put themselves in position to bring home state titles. There were several programs around the state last year without supieror talent that won 30+ games. That happened because of the program already set in-place.

Fundamentals don't need to be taught in high school

[baseball1974]

Fundamentals don't need to be taught in high school

Huh? That's the exact issue and way of thinking that threatens the credibility of high school baseball. Fundementals are taught daily at the professional level. They are also taught daily at the collegiate level, and should be taught daily at the high school level. The idea of having your high school team show up for practice and let one guy hit and everyone else shag, is exactly why programs have to rely on top-notch athletes to come through the system. The programs that focus every single practice around fundamentals are the ones that will win regardless of who comes through the system.

I sincerely hope that you are not a coach or have anything to do with baseball.

[yeti-wap]

I agree with kcfan#1

[RicFlair]

They have not BEEN down. Meaning these classes senior ,junior and soph this year will have players. If we look at last year we are talking about freshmen, that will not make a impact on this years team. You do see the difference, right. In three years we will talk about last years 8th grade.

Sorry but I don't think you understand the definition of down. A couple good players that will eventually be good high school players doesn't make a good team in middle school and won't in high school, so yes, they are and have been down.

[RicFlair]

Huh? That's the exact issue and way of thinking that threatens the credibility of high school baseball. Fundementals are taught daily at the professional level. They are also taught daily at the collegiate level, and should be taught daily at the high school level. The idea of having your high school team show up for practice and let one guy hit and everyone else shag, is exactly why programs have to rely on top-notch athletes to come through the system. The programs that focus every single practice around fundamentals are the ones that will win regardless of who comes through the system.

I sincerely hope that you are not a coach or have anything to do with baseball.

Basic fundamentals should be known by the time kids get to high school. The game gets more complex as you go on, agreed 'practicing' fundamentals is necesecary at every level.... Learning the correct way to field a ground ball when you're 15 years old is not and I'm sorry if you think it is but that's T-ball stuff.

[baseball1974]

Basic fundamentals should be known by the time kids get to high school. The game gets more complex as you go on, agreed 'practicing' fundamentals is necesecary at every level.... Learning the correct way to field a ground ball when you're 15 years old is not and I'm sorry if you think it is but that's T-ball stuff.

You have obviously never seen a college or pro practice. Every single drill they do is based-around repeating fundamentals. That's all baseball is.

[Hitters_Count]

I believe the point of RicFlair is that kids should come into HS knowing basic fundamentals, this is not the level to introduce it. Yes, you practice fundamentals EVERY day, but you shouldnt have to teach it for the first time to a 14/15 yr old HS player. This is why the good players make hard plays look routine, they have done the work for so long it becomes second nature in a game situation for them.

[baseball1974]

I believe the point of RicFlair is that kids should come into HS knowing basic fundamentals, this is not the level to introduce it. Yes, you practice fundamentals EVERY day, but you shouldnt have to teach it for the first time to a 14/15 yr old HS player. This is why the good players make hard plays look routine, they have done the work for so long it becomes second nature in a game situation for them.

That would make more sense if he meant that. Obviously, if a kid is being taught fundamentals for the first time at age 15 then something has gone terribly wrong. I took it as him saying "baseball is more complex at the higher levels, and therefore they don't waste their time with basic fundamentals."

No matter what you do in baseball, everything is based-off of basic fundamentals. Whether it is a certain play, different tweaks in your hitting or fielding, or different scenarios for different situations, or even if your just looking at film, EVERYTHING is always centered around basic fundamentals. Making plays in the field, throwing, hitting, etc. is repeating those basic fundamentals.

I apologize for the soap box....

[baller1989]

Give me names by position to watch for this year in the 13th? Don't seem to know too many that are up and coming in this region? Is there talent out there?

[Hitters_Count]

I would say several from both the NL and KC squads.

[insideinfo]

In my opinion every drill you do from T ball to the professional baseball should be fundamental based. The great coaches gave good teams when they don't have the talent, and when they have the talent they have great teams.