[Hoot Gibson]

we will spend 8.433 trillon on military same time period

So, you are anti-military as well as anti-free market. No surprise. Military spending is mandated by the U.S. Constitution and has nothing to do with the disinformation that RV posted about the new ObamaTax increases.

[vector]

So, you are anti-military as well as anti-free market. No surprise.

NO but when is too much?

[vector]

So, you are anti-military as well as anti-free market. No surprise. Military spending is mandated by the U.S. Constitution and has nothing to do with the disinformation that RV posted about the new ObamaTax increases.

so is HEALTH CARE

[Hoot Gibson]

NO but when is too much?

Your constant attacks on the military say otherwise. We spend a relatively small amount of our GDP on national defense. Spending on federal welfare programs dwarfs defense spending, yet you single out the military for criticism while supporting every boondoggle that the Food Stamp President signs into law. Why is that?

[vector]

Your constant attacks on the military say otherwise. We spend a relatively small amount of our GDP on national defense. Spending on federal welfare programs dwarfs defense spending, yet you single out the military for criticism while supporting every boondoggle that the Food Stamp President signs into law. Why is that?

you are misleading on your #'s social security and medicare have there
own separate funding i believe it is 15.3% of what you earn goes into
these programs so i don't believe medicade and food stamps are no where
near the money we spend on military

[nky]

[Image: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en...Y_2011.png]

[Hoot Gibson]

you are misleading on your #'s social security and medicare have there
own separate funding i believe it is 15.3% of what you earn goes into
these programs so i don't believe medicade and food stamps are no where
near the money we spend on military

No, you are the one who constantly misleads with your posts. You don't have to guess how much is spent by the federal government on entitlements, it is a matter of public record. Also, this is the second post in which you have confused Medicaid with Medicare. The payroll tax funds social security and medicare.

[INDENT]

[COLOR="Blue"]From: FY 2013 Federal Mandatory Budget

The largest mandatory spending programs were Social Security and Medicare, as follows:

• Social Security - $820 billion
  
• Medicare - $523 billion
  
• Medicaid - $283 billion
  
• TARP - $12 billion
  
• All other mandatory programs - $654 billion. These programs include Food Stamps, Unemployment Compensation, Child Nutrition and Tax Credits, Supplemental Security for the Disabled and Student Loans.
  

[/COLOR]

[/INDENT]

The Defense Department has requested a budget of $613.9 billion for FY 2013.
See UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE FISCAL YEAR 2013 BUDGET REQUEST for details.)

[vector]

No, you are the one who constantly misleads with your posts. You don't have to guess how much is spent by the federal government on entitlements, it is a matter of public record. Also, this is the second post in which you have confused Medicaid with Medicare. The payroll tax funds social security and medicare.

The Defense Department has requested a budget of $613.9 billion for FY 2013.
See UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE FISCAL YEAR 2013 BUDGET REQUEST for details.)

here is the other hidden cost

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012...n-congress

[Hoot Gibson]

here is the other hidden cost

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012...n-congress

Mother Jones magazine. Congrats! You managed to post a link to a rag that is even to Obama's left. Do you not agree that there is a huge hidden cost of social welfare spending that the federal government foists on states with unfunded mandates? Welfare spending has virtually no upside. It robs most of the people who receive it of both their work ethic and their self respect.

As shown by the boom in the number of food stamp recipients and the number of people collecting federal disability benefits since Obama took office, in hard times honest people will resort to filing bogus disability claims to support their families and themselves. Obama rule has been a disaster for Americans and it will take at least a generation to clean up after this man-made disaster.

[vector]

Mother Jones magazine. Congrats! You managed to post a link to a rag that is even to Obama's left. Do you not agree that there is a huge hidden cost of social welfare spending that the federal government foists on states with unfunded mandates? Welfare spending has virtually no upside. It robs most of the people who receive it of both their work ethic and their self respect.

As shown by the boom in the number of food stamp recipients and the number of people collecting federal disability benefits since Obama took office, in hard times honest people will resort to filing bogus disability claims to support their families and themselves. Obama rule has been a disaster for Americans and it will take at least a generation to clean up after this man-made disaster.

first we got to get out of the biggest mess since the great depression
that bush2 and his rich friends got us into and if the figuires are wrong
just tell us which ones?

[MustangSally]

^ how did President Bush and his "rich" friends get us into wars in Afganistan and Iraq? How did they cause the housing bubble/subprime mess? Someone needs to do better research and learn the root of these issues.

[Hoot Gibson]

first we got to get out of the biggest mess since the great depression
that bush2 and his rich friends got us into and if the figuires are wrong
just tell us which ones?

The recovery belongs to Barack Hussein Obama and it is the weakest recovery from a recession since the Great Depression. If Bush owns the recession, then give full credit for the recovery to Obama and he has done the opposite of what needed to be done to allow the economy to create jobs and profits for investors.

Also, Bush has nothing to do with Obama's 2013 budget proposal. If you don't like Obama's 2013 budget, then place the blame where it belongs.

Barack Obama's "Recovery" (the weakest recovery in at least 80 years) by the numbers. Socialism does not work and Obama has proven that fact again.
[Image: http://media.hotair.com/wp/wp-content/up...012-06.png]

[Image: http://www.investors.com/image/Blog_070612.gif.cms]

[TheRealThing]

Just curious, how will the new health care "overhaul" affect someone with my type of insurance?
Ive looked and researched and still cannot find how or if it will affect me in anyway.

I have Anthem insurace, which is for health, eye, and dental.
Through Anthem we use to wonderful HSA program where i have a deductable of $2500 a year, $500 of which my company pays.
So in other words, every single year I have to pay $2000 dollars out of pocket before my insurance will cover anything. Due to a surgery i had earlier in the year, my first ever btw, my deductable is already met and i can go to the doctor every single day for the rest of year free of charge, which sounds good, but considering you have to pay 2000 a year for that to happen is kind of ridicolous i think. However, i always put 2000 in it every January so that im always fully covered, and most years i dont have to pay anything because i dont go to the doctor. This year was the first time in 3 years actually, so i paid nothing before.

However, you also have to pay 15 dollars a week for this insurance, so on top of the 2500 deductable there sticking you with $750 a year just for having the insurance, not to mention the 20 i put in a week to my HSA except for when its at the maximum contribution.

The Dental and eye are only about 2 dollars a week and only have like a 50 dollar deductible so i could care less about that, but im just curious as to how this will be affected by the new law.

Keep in mind that only 7 year ago we had insurace that w eonly had to pay a dollar a week for and it covered 95% of cost. It was great and since then weve been stuck with this wonderful popularity of HSA's. I know a lot of this has to do with companies saving money, but to be honest, our company was forced into this by the insurance provider.

How will this affect the different types of insurances or will it at all?

The hard truth could be slightly different, but here is what will happen to you the way I have heard it. Your insurance policy will go up. (My insurance already rose 42% since 2009.) You may have heard the media say those who already have medical insurance will be forced into state exchanges. That means your insurance will at some point become too expensive for you to afford, like you'd have to choose between your insurance and food, kind of expensive. Since the insurance coverage provided by Uncle Sam will be much cheaper, you'll simply have no alternative. It will be illegal for you to forego insurance coverage, so into the state exchange you will go.

I know what you're thinking, my company pays for my health insurance. And, that's a very good point. There is an argument raging at present between the liberals and the sane, as to whether or not employers will continue to provide health insurance to their employees once ObamaCare is fully implimented. You can make up your own mind about this but, I would ask the following; why would employers bear the cost of waaaay more expensive health care costs for their employees, when the Obama admin just passed a federal law mandating you, and everybody else, to have insurance whether you're employed or not? They sure don't pay their employees taxes, and I contend they will not bear the burden of health insurance either. Having health insurance will be a question of whether you are deemed wealthy enough to pay for it, or whether the government just gives it to you. BTW, you can look for Uncle Sam to ask you to fill out the questionnaire to end all questionnaires, with regard to your personal finances. Talk about your freedom of information act! The secrets are over my friend. Between this and your 1040 form, they will know it all.

But, back to my and your more immediate problem. You will lose the priviledge of seeing your family doctor or specialist. Instead, you will be assigned to a clinic or hospital by the government. Very similar to an ER visit. But, just because the government will be providing you with state supervised and regulated coverage doesn't mean it will be cheap. You will still be paying a substantial insurance premium, just not as expensive as the insurance you will be forced to give up, which will still be avaliable in the private sector for the rich folks. Regardless of what anybody tells you, the middle class (you and me) are about to lose access to top flight health care. That's why you hear folks saying it's governmental intrusion and a loss of our rights. After 2014, if you go to the hospital for a heart cath, and they were to find life threatening blockages. Instead of your cardiologist putting you in for surgery immediately, some government panel will put you into a kind of bureaucratically prioritised triage, and if you live long enough to make it to your surgery day, you might survive.

In other words, if you worked hard and earned money to provide the best health care for your family and yourself, it's about to disappear. In it's place will be governmentally regulated health care. Bureaucrats will determine what health services you will qualify for from the year 2014 onward. And believe me, ability to pay will mean nothing after that. Folks who haven't lifted a finger or struck the first tap to provide for themselves or anybody else, will be get the same consideration you do. It's a reckoning of social justice. As I have already mentioned, America will go to a two tier medical system. The rich will still have it all. But, the lowest derelict sipping on Thunderbird and living in a washer box at the flood wall, and who pays nothing, will get the same medical care anybody who actually pays for their insurance will get. It will be like a layer of vanilla pudding two miles thick. No matter how deep one dives into it, it will be exactly the same.

[RunItUpTheGut]

The hard truth could be slightly different, but here is what will happen to you the way I have heard it. Your insurance policy will go up. (My insurance already rose 42% since 2009.) You may have heard the media say those who already have medical insurance will be forced into state exchanges. That means your insurance will at some point become too expensive for you to afford, like you'd have to choose between your insurance and food, kind of expensive. Since the insurance coverage provided by Uncle Sam will be much cheaper, you'll simply have no alternative. It will be illegal for you to forego insurance coverage, so into the state exchange you will go.

I know what you're thinking, my company pays for my health insurance. And, that's a very good point. There is an argument raging at present between the liberals and the sane, as to whether or not employers will continue to provide health insurance to their employees once ObamaCare is fully implimented. You can make up your own mind about this but, I would ask the following; why would employers bear the cost of waaaay more expensive health care costs for their employees, when the Obama admin just passed a federal law mandating you, and everybody else, to have insurance whether you're employed or not? They sure don't pay their employees taxes, and I contend they will not bear the burden of health insurance either. Having health insurance will be a question of whether you are deemed wealthy enough to pay for it, or whether the government just gives it to you. BTW, you can look for Uncle Sam to ask you to fill out the questionnaire to end all questionnaires, with regard to your personal finances. Talk about your freedom of information act! The secrets are over my friend. Between this and your 1040 form, they will know it all.

But, back to my and your more immediate problem. You will lose the priviledge of seeing your family doctor or specialist. Instead, you will be assigned to a clinic or hospital by the government. Very similar to an ER visit. But, just because the government will be providing you with state supervised and regulated coverage doesn't mean it will be cheap. You will still be paying a substantial insurance premium, just not as expensive as the insurance you will be forced to give up, which will still be avaliable in the private sector for the rich folks. Regardless of what anybody tells you, the middle class (you and me) are about to lose access to top flight health care. That's why you hear folks saying it's governmental intrusion and a loss of our rights. After 2014, if you go to the hospital for a heart cath, and they were to find life threatening blockages. Instead of your cardiologist putting you in for surgery immediately, some government panel will put you into a kind of bureaucratically prioritised triage, and if you live long enough to make it to your surgery day, you might survive.

In other words, if you worked hard and earned money to provide the best health care for your family and yourself, it's about to disappear. In it's place will be governmentally regulated health care. Bureaucrats will determine what health services you will qualify for from the year 2014 onward. And believe me, ability to pay will mean nothing after that. Folks who haven't lifted a finger or struck the first tap to provide for themselves or anybody else, will be get the same consideration you do. It's a reckoning of social justice. As I have already mentioned, America will go to a two tier medical system. The rich will still have it all. But, the lowest derelict sipping on Thunderbird and living in a washer box at the flood wall, and who pays nothing, will get the same medical care anybody who actually pays for their insurance will get. It will be like a layer of vanilla pudding two miles thick. No matter how deep one dives into it, it will be exactly the same.

Thanks for answering TRT.
This is exactly what i was scared of.
I like how you mentioned companies not wanting to provide insurace as it will be federal mandated that you have to have it.
In all honesty, you cannot blame the companies for pulling the insurance then. It quite frankly sickens me and truthfully pisses me off that this has passed and now further understanding it is complete and utter socialism.
I cant believe how this will work. To know that i bust my ass everyday to creat "equal" healthcare oppertunities for lazy asses is ridicolous. If i want healthcare everything and anything will be watched.
I can only hope that come Novemeber this changes and were able to eventually repeal it. As long as you work what do you have to worry about? Pay your insurance and get what you want, dont take what somebody wants to give you.
Its time to end the laziness and sorryness of this country.

[TheRealThing]

Thanks for answering TRT.
This is exactly what i was scared of.
I like how you mentioned companies not wanting to provide insurace as it will be federal mandated that you have to have it.
In all honesty, you cannot blame the companies for pulling the insurance then. It quite frankly sickens me and truthfully pisses me off that this has passed and now further understanding it is complete and utter socialism.
I cant believe how this will work. To know that i bust my ass everyday to creat "equal" healthcare oppertunities for lazy asses is ridicolous. If i want healthcare everything and anything will be watched.
I can only hope that come Novemeber this changes and were able to eventually repeal it. As long as you work what do you have to worry about? Pay your insurance and get what you want, dont take what somebody wants to give you.
Its time to end the laziness and sorryness of this country.

Welcome to the brave new world of 'eqality of result' and the reality of 'redistribution of wealth' en route to our "fundamentally transformed" country. Vote Romney!

[RunItUpTheGut]

^
Another 4 years, and we could have uprisings and civil war in this country.

[Hoot Gibson]

Thanks for answering TRT.
This is exactly what i was scared of.
I like how you mentioned companies not wanting to provide insurace as it will be federal mandated that you have to have it.
In all honesty, you cannot blame the companies for pulling the insurance then. It quite frankly sickens me and truthfully pisses me off that this has passed and now further understanding it is complete and utter socialism.
I cant believe how this will work. To know that i bust my ass everyday to creat "equal" healthcare oppertunities for lazy asses is ridicolous. If i want healthcare everything and anything will be watched.
I can only hope that come Novemeber this changes and were able to eventually repeal it. As long as you work what do you have to worry about? Pay your insurance and get what you want, dont take what somebody wants to give you.
Its time to end the laziness and sorryness of this country.

You have plenty to worry about if you work because the cost of your healthcare insurance is going up one way or another and the quality of your coverage will go down. Obamacare provides incentives disguised as small penalties (or as the Supreme Court calls them "taxes") for companies to drop healthcare insurance coverage for their employees. Think about how much money that they can save by increasing your salary by half the cost of your insurance premiums, pay the ObamaTax, and dump you into the government system. Not only will they be able to save the direct cost of the premiums, they will also be able to eliminate the administrative costs associated with providing healthcare insurance to their employees.

This won't happen overnight, but Obamacare gives the HHS Secretary broad powers to tighten the screws on companies until they throw you to the wolves. You need to look no further than to the coal industry to see how an aspiring totalitarian like Obama can circumvent the will of Congress by using federal agencies to implement policies that do not have popular support. The only difference in the way that Obama will implement a single payer system under Obamacare and how he is waging war on the coal industry is that the IRS and HHS will be used as Obamacare's Gestapo instead of the EPA.

[TheRealThing]

So, you are anti-military as well as anti-free market. No surprise. Military spending is mandated by the U.S. Constitution and has nothing to do with the disinformation that RV posted about the new ObamaTax increases.

so is HEALTH CARE

Supposedly, the shortest distance between two points is a straight line. Who knows what route you took to connect those two dots. Not even with the wildest stretch of imagination could one make that anti-logic stick. Men have the the right to pursue happiness too. According to the Ayn Rand Center, "the Declaration of Independence enshrines three basic rights: the rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." So, using your logic, if the constitution advocates for universal health care, it would necessarily follow that if murdering people makes some folks happy, it should be bombs away and more power to them, right?

[Benchwarmer]

It's either Bush's fault or racism.