[footballfever]

I wish they would go back to 4 classes and the district champ and runner up would make the playoffs. It may be about the players, but they should earn it. We never made the playoffs when I played, but I'm glad we didn't because we weren't good enough and didn't earn it. What does it mean to make the playoff every year when you don't earn it. It takes away from those that do earn it.

I think you earn home playoff games, you earn 2nd,3rd,4th round games.

[PirateWatcher]

So, what happens if we change the play-offs to top 2 seeds and there are still blow-out wins?? Do we then change rules and make a team remove all its starters from the field till the other team catches up?
I bet the same people that are crying about this system love to see Ky Wildcats basketball team go into ncaa tourny a #1 seed and trounce a #16 seed.

[Can you dig it?]

So, what happens if we change the play-offs to top 2 seeds and there are still blow-out wins?? Do we then change rules and make a team remove all its starters from the field till the other team catches up?
I bet the same people that are crying about this system love to see Ky Wildcats basketball team go into ncaa tourny a #1 seed and trounce a #16 seed.

Nah, I'd be 100% behind that #16 team.:Cheerlead:devilflam

[Wideleft01]

Good programs that suffer blowout losses in the playoffs build upon the experience to improve in the future. Bad programs just look forward to the season coming to an end. Johnson Central was on the receiving end of a 67-20 thrashing at the hands of Highlands but I guarantee they would not have even considered forfeiting, even if they had known the outcome of the game in advance.

Playoff is experience is important for returning players. Without it, you just end up with even more of a rich getting richer system where good programs get to play 13 or 14 games (if the 3rd and 4th seeds were excluded) and bad ones get to play 10 games. Those extra games of experience and the four practices that precede the games add up over a four year period and give teams like Highlands a huge advantage.

Your best post ever Hoot. You get better with experience. I don't like the 6 Class system, but the extra weeks of football benefits the also rans.

[Hoot Gibson]

Your best post ever Hoot. You get better with experience. I don't like the 6 Class system, but the extra weeks of football benefits the also rans.

Thanks, Lefty. There is no substitute for game experience and that is why I favor a playoff system like Indiana's. When you start excluding teams from the playoffs, you penalize those teams for the following season by taking away games and practice time for the returning players.

[charlie22]

I could be wrong but I'm guessing we've gotten to why DSR really would like the playoffs contracted: start basketball earlier or maybe even prolong the season. I'm beginning to think the basketball coaches/ADs are the ones pushing this contraction stuff throughout the state.

Sorry, but I'm fine with it as it is. If any kid on a 3 or 4 seed doesn't want to go on the long bus ride knowing he will lose, he should quit and turn in the pads. Kid doesn't have what it takes to play football anyway. He's obviously not playing because he loves the game. If the team is filled with players like that, it might explain why they were a 4 seed. Heck, their coach can always call the other team and forfeit.

But I say let those 3 and 4 seeds with kids that love the game have another week to play the game; another week to play the game they'll likely never get the chance to play again after high school; another week to have football teammates; another week to believe; another week to be the 4 seed that pulled off the upset and proved the geniuses wrong; and yes, other week that resulted in a blowout loss and a long bus ride home. Maybe they got the chance to play against some kids they'll watch on Saturdays or maybe even on Sundays. How cool is that. Even if they don't, learning how to deal with adversity and disappointment is part of the game and rightly so: it's a part of life.

What I find so dang ironic: those that criticize the current system because it "gives everyone a trophy", while at the same time whining about how "embarrassing and humiliating" it is for those kids that get blown out in the first game.

When all the other sports change their tournaments to only allow the top two seeds in the district in the tournaments, then football should be changed. Not until then. If the regular season games have to be "meaningful" for football, they have to be "meaningful" for baseball and basketball. If first round blowouts are too boring to the fans and too embarrasing to the players in football; they are too boring to the fans and too embarrassing to the players in basketball.

If the long bus trips are too expensive, go back to the way it used to be: intra district competition.

Otherwise, just leave it alone. Basketball has already taken 7s in June away from football; now it wants to take away a week or maybe two of the playoffs.

[Blau Vogel]

Boone County (8-4) is still alive in Class 6A despite finishing as the No. 4 seed in its district and it will play at Lexington Lafayette (9-3), which was the No. 2 seed in its district, in the Region 4 championship game.

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll...111140315/

[horst muhlmann]

Boone County (8-4) is still alive in Class 6A despite finishing as the No. 4 seed in its district and it will play at Lexington Lafayette (9-3), which was the No. 2 seed in its district, in the Region 4 championship game.

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll...111140315/

Good point. This year's Boone County squad is the poster child for keeping the current playoff format intact....

[charlie22]

Good point. This year's Boone County squad is the poster child for keeping the current playoff format intact....

Wasn't Simon Kenton a 4 seed also the year they made it to the state game?

[Blau Vogel]

I remember in the late 90's when the district Highlands was in in 3A, had FIVE teams in the top 10, FOUR of them were in the top 5.

[nky]

Wasn't Simon Kenton a 4 seed also the year they made it to the state game?

yes they were

[DSRfan]

[quote=charlie22]I could be wrong but I'm guessing we've gotten to why DSR really would like the playoffs contracted: start basketball earlier or maybe even prolong the season. I'm beginning to think the basketball coaches/ADs are the ones pushing this contraction stuff throughout the state.

Sorry, but no. I love both sports. I do think football has been pushed back too far, and needs to be over by Tday NO MATTER WHAT format we have.
And while I suspect that many bkball coaches WOULD like to claw back
a little time for their sport, I certainly don't see any publicly commenting on it.
To my great suprise, I heard the legendary Bobby Keith say he thought it was GREAT the way it is with shortened bkball season in comparison iwth 20 years ago. Of course good as his teams were, he probably liked it because
it gave him and advantage.

But no, the reason I'm for contraction is PURELY because it
is better for the game. Period. All the blowouts and all the factors I
have continued to cite,give the sport a black eye. And the
don't do anything to improve or promote the sport, nor do anything
positive for either the maulers or maulees. Those opposed to
contraction can keep citing the #4 over #1 wins all they want.
But is doesn't change the fact that they are the HUGE EXCEPTIONS,
and that a HUGE BEAT DOWN is the NORM.

[DSRfan]

I wish they would go back to 4 classes and the district champ and runner up would make the playoffs. It may be about the players, but they should earn it. We never made the playoffs when I played, but I'm glad we didn't because we weren't good enough and didn't earn it. What does it mean to make the playoff every year when you don't earn it. It takes away from those that do earn it.

That's a very GOOD point. It IS about the players, but what are you
teaching them, and what are they getting from it, in this format?
More of the "everybody gets a trophy" mentality? The logical
extension of this mindset is to go to 120 classes in football,
let everybody make the playoffs, and then everybody is either
a state titlist or runnerup.

[DSRfan]

The logic of some; is big scores mean something bad. Well, if this is the case only district champs in basketball and baseball should play. Why can't you just leave well enough alone. If a fourth seed's team or school does not want to play, or if their fans and parents are ashamed to be there, don't show up.

Big scores DO mean something bad. It ALMOST ALWAYS means the teams were totally mismatched and the losers could NOT be competitive.
That can't be avoided in regular season football. And can't
be totally avoided in post season football. But when it's
so BLATANTLY SLAP YOU IN THE FACE OBVIOUS that it
WILL occur on a majority basis every year in the 1st rd.,
WHY would you want to keep doing it that way?

[RunItUpTheGut]

[quote=charlie22]I could be wrong but I'm guessing we've gotten to why DSR really would like the playoffs contracted: start basketball earlier or maybe even prolong the season. I'm beginning to think the basketball coaches/ADs are the ones pushing this contraction stuff throughout the state.

Sorry, but no. I love both sports. I do think football has been pushed back too far, and needs to be over by Tday NO MATTER WHAT format we have.
And while I suspect that many bkball coaches WOULD like to claw back
a little time for their sport, I certainly don't see any publicly commenting on it.
To my great suprise, I heard the legendary Bobby Keith say he thought it was GREAT the way it is with shortened bkball season in comparison iwth 20 years ago. Of course good as his teams were, he probably liked it because
it gave him and advantage.

But no, the reason I'm for contraction is PURELY because it
is better for the game. Period. All the blowouts and all the factors I
have continued to cite,give the sport a black eye. And the
don't do anything to improve or promote the sport, nor do anything
positive for either the maulers or maulees. Those opposed to
contraction can keep citing the #4 over #1 wins all they want.
But is doesn't change the fact that they are the HUGE EXCEPTIONS,
and that a HUGE BEAT DOWN is the NORM.

Id like to see the bball season shortened by 2 weeks and it ADD another week to the football season.
Its all about what you like and thats what your gonna want.
I for one, would keep every single sport the way it is.

[southbound]

---
Don't jump to conclusions. I'm not advocating going down to district
champs only, I just use last night's numbers to show that even in
this round there are plenty of mismatches still, and that, only to
rebut those who still want to keep 4 entries per district.

And while you're right, the sport should be about the kids participating,
subjecting hundreds of kids to humiliating defeats, and leaving
the seniors on those teams with a horrible final memory of their
football careers, is NOT "about the players and teams".
And it certainly isn't about "win or go home stakes" because
the vast majority of the teams we're talking about have NO
chance to win.

As the other reply above suggests, that can only be about
the MONEY. Though I can't imagine it's a lot of money to
anyone involved when you subtract the expenses,including
the KHSAA. I still think it would be best, to go to winners and runnersup,
but even going down to 3 per district and giving the winners a
1st rd bye would be a tremendous improvement.

My senior year (many moons ago) we were undefeated and on probation. i would rather have been 6-5 and went to the playoffs. a loss in the play offs is different then a loss in the regular season. every kid out there has one goal---make the playoffs. let them play.

[southbound]

one thing that would help playoffs is if they would rank the teams before the playoffs (like some other states do) and match them that way. so you don't find the best teams playing each other in the third round.

[Blau Vogel]

Those opposed to
contraction can keep citing the #4 over #1 wins all they want.
But is doesn't change the fact that they are the HUGE EXCEPTIONS,
and that a HUGE BEAT DOWN is the NORM.

The 5A state championship game score, last year, was 50 - 00 What should we do about that? Just cancel the post season all together and crown a champ???

If you asked every 1 - 9 team if they want to take a three hour bus trip, knowing they are going to get pounded by a 10 - 0 team, my guess is it would be a UNANIMOUS YES. Good bad or indifferent, these kids have busted their collective butts for four or more years and should not be denied. The only way a team or player should be truly embarrassed is by lack of effort.

[Stardust]

^ Playoffs are the playoffs, and on that bus ride, there is always the excitement of "What If". The reality happens on the field, and the bubble gets burst. But by-gawd, isn't it that excitement of "What If" that drives us all. As you said, that is every underdogs dream! And who gives anyone the right to say we have zero interest in underdogs because underdogs will never win. Who cares, its fun for them!

To take that away for selfish reason of not wanting to see blowouts is STUPID. There WILL be blowouts in the championship game - that is a guarantee! What do we say then, we should not even have playoffs altogether????

[#1 Blackcat Fan]

Blah blah blah blah khsaa. Blah blah blah blah playoffs. Blah blah blah blah i dont like it. Blah blah blah blah who cares anymore.

[DSRfan]

Nah, I'd be 100% behind that #16 team.:Cheerlead:devilflam

I wonder if you notice that those 16 seed teams EARNED their way in
by winning something? No # 16 seed gets in as an at large, they
had to win their conference or tnmt, or both. And while they do
usually get trounced, they are grown men, playing in basically
a quasi-professional organization.

[DSRfan]

^ Playoffs are the playoffs, and on that bus ride, there is always the excitement of "What If". The reality happens on the field, and the bubble gets burst. But by-gawd, isn't it that excitement of "What If" that drives us all. As you said, that is every underdogs dream! And who gives anyone the right to say we have zero interest in underdogs because underdogs will never win. Who cares, its fun for them!

To take that away for selfish reason of not wanting to see blowouts is STUPID. There WILL be blowouts in the championship game - that is a guarantee! What do we say then, we should not even have playoffs altogether????

The excitement of the upset, and pulling for the underdog, are always
part of what makes sports interesting. And yes you can get blowouts
in championship games. But what is STUPID, is leaving in place a
system that by design makes a huge portion of the games TOTALLY
NON-COMPETITIVE, and refuses to acknowledge the negatives
such as the costs of playing basically predetermined games.

The only thing selfish in this debate, is the mentality your side keeps
demoinstrating, because you PERSONALLY like this system, and can't
take an objective look at it.

[DSRfan]

one thing that would help playoffs is if they would rank the teams before the playoffs (like some other states do) and match them that way. so you don't find the best teams playing each other in the third round.

That's really hard to do. What objective method is there for that, without
playing common schedules? But in any event, those of us who want to
improve the playoffs by at least eliminating 4th seeds aren't trying to eliminate all blowouts. What we are trying to do is eliminate a system
that by design creates an overwhelming percentage of 1st rd games
between #1 and #4 seeds that CANNOT be competitive. And that
is an OBJECTIVE KNOWN, because these teams spent the season
demonstrating that they CANNOT be competitive.

And of the handful of #4's that can be competitive with another
district's #1's, hjow many can in turn then end up being competitive
with their own #1? Maybe .001%?

[Wise one]

This topic is not unique to Kentucky.

In Ohio where 8 teams out of a region of 29 get into the playoffs and then by using a computer system (the Harbin System) to seed the teams, they have the same type of discussions. Try this link to one the Ohio discussion: http://yappi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=230676

[charlie22]

The excitement of the upset, and pulling for the underdog, are always
part of what makes sports interesting. And yes you can get blowouts
in championship games. But what is STUPID, is leaving in place a
system that by design makes a huge portion of the games TOTALLY
NON-COMPETITIVE, and refuses to acknowledge the negatives
such as the costs of playing basically predetermined games.

The only thing selfish in this debate, is the mentality your side keeps
demoinstrating, because you PERSONALLY like this system, and can't
take an objective look at it.

Evidently the schools, coaches and fans aren't too worried about the costs involved in the blowouts: we used to have a system where the first two rounds were intra district, with the district champion advancing to the third round to take on another district's champion. The first two rounds involved much less travel and hence costs because the game were played within the district. But the masses spoke (or at least the schools did) and the KHSAA agreed that the first two rounds would be inter district. Travel distances and travel costs of the first two rounds went up dramatically. I voted against it because of cost issues. Heck if intra district was fine for the early rounds of the basketball, baseball, soccer, volleyball etc playoffs, it made no sense to do something different for football. Alas, a majority of the BOC disagreed with me because the schools wanted inter district play. As a taxpayer, I thought and think it's a waste of money. If there are going to be blowouts in the first two rounds, let's keep them close to home to save travel costs. It might even bump up the gate slightly. A fan of a team expected to be blown out might travel an hour or less to hopefully see the upset. Much longer than that and they probably stay at home.

If anyone is overly concerned about the costs of the first two rounds, it can be easily fixed without needing to reduce the number of schools making the playoffs: talk to your principal and tell him/her to get his peers at the other schools to ask the KHSAA to go back to intra district competition in the first two rounds.

[Can you dig it?]

I wonder if you notice that those 16 seed teams EARNED their way in
by winning something? No # 16 seed gets in as an at large, they
had to win their conference or tnmt, or both. And while they do
usually get trounced, they are grown men, playing in basically
a quasi-professional organization.

:problem:I don't care. I just can't stand UK.:problem:

[nky]

From NKY.com

KHSAA responds to playoff survey question

Kentucky High School Athletic Association commissioner Julian Tackett responded to email questions about the survey The Enquirer reported last week was sent to state high school football coaches, athletic directors, principals and superintendents regarding possible future changes in the playoff format.
Currently all 32 Class A and Class 6A teams in the six-class alignment make the playoffs, and all but 30 teams in the middle four classes qualify.
Those surveyed were asked a handful of questions ranging from keeping the format as is, cutting it down to two teams instead of four in each of the eight districts in the six classes and perhaps even cutting it to three teams in each district with the district champion receiving a first-round bye.
"We wanted to see if there was a difference in how coaches felt, compared to principals, athletic directors and superintendents," Tackett wrote.
"The Board (of Control) just wanted to determine the opinions of some of the various constituent groups.
"The results will be reported to the Board. There is nothing at all binding about the results and as the schools were told in the survey, likely wouldn't result in any changes until at least 2015 (when re-alignment and re-classification would take place).
"There is no discussion at all about the number of classes, but the bracketing, travel and number of qualifying teams was asked about.
"To be candid, the only people that have questioned the system as it stands have been a relatively few number of people in Northern Kentucky.
"In the vast majority of the rest of the state, the silence is fairly deafening. There are always complaints/concerns about how districts are made up, but not much at all with regard to the system."

[RunItUpTheGut]

From NKY.com

KHSAA responds to playoff survey question

Kentucky High School Athletic Association commissioner Julian Tackett responded to email questions about the survey The Enquirer reported last week was sent to state high school football coaches, athletic directors, principals and superintendents regarding possible future changes in the playoff format.
Currently all 32 Class A and Class 6A teams in the six-class alignment make the playoffs, and all but 30 teams in the middle four classes qualify.
Those surveyed were asked a handful of questions ranging from keeping the format as is, cutting it down to two teams instead of four in each of the eight districts in the six classes and perhaps even cutting it to three teams in each district with the district champion receiving a first-round bye.
"We wanted to see if there was a difference in how coaches felt, compared to principals, athletic directors and superintendents," Tackett wrote.
"The Board (of Control) just wanted to determine the opinions of some of the various constituent groups.
"The results will be reported to the Board. There is nothing at all binding about the results and as the schools were told in the survey, likely wouldn't result in any changes until at least 2015 (when re-alignment and re-classification would take place).
"There is no discussion at all about the number of classes, but the bracketing, travel and number of qualifying teams was asked about.
"To be candid, the only people that have questioned the system as it stands have been a relatively few number of people in Northern Kentucky.
"In the vast majority of the rest of the state, the silence is fairly deafening. There are always complaints/concerns about how districts are made up, but not much at all with regard to the system."

What i got from reading that was this.


---"So we want to know what you think, but we dont give a crap because ITS STAYING EXACTLY HOW IT IS. ESPECIALLY 6 CLASSES IN FOOTBALL."

Might as well close this ridicolousness now, fans like DSR are just going to have to not worry about the blowoffs in the first two rounds and stay home or watch volleyball or open gym, becuase it aint changing.
Get use to it.

[tyler durden]

I believe that making it harder to get in the playoffs would be the greatest thing to happen to Kentucky High School football in the last decade. It would create a sense of urgnecy within the teams that "hey, we can't just disregard the regular season games or go lightly torwards the end of the season to protect from injury...these games actually matter." If the regular season games matter, IMO, you should see an elevated level of play each and every game.
LIke so, If a team is in the same district as a team that is traditionally a very good football program, then they can't just say, "we're gonna make it to the playoffs and further whether we beat them or not." They would be forced to push themselves to a higher caliber team.
Look at our football friend to the north who is cnosistently named a top 5 football factory in the country. Ohio uses the harbin point system in which every game is crucial and you must win the big games.

[bob green]

Using a point system to get in the playoffs? Not in Kentucky. The dispairity in level of competition makes it impossible for this to happen. This is where the problems are any way. And no there is not a lot that can be done about it. And I don't want to hear the "work harder, get better" slogan either. The traditional powers of Kentucky are the rich populated areas of Kentucky and will always be. The smaller rural (one school towns and county's) will stay about like they are. They have a really good class or 2 come through every 4 or 5 years and they hang their hat on that bunch. Powell County or Estill County for instance pulls about the same number of kids from an entire county as Fort Thomas Highlands does from a much smaller town. Powell is really good this year, playing in a regional championship game. But they have went through some hard times to get to enjoy this success. Now there are always exceptions. Places like Bell field good teams most every year. Their day is coming, and they will fall off the mountain just like so many others have. And they will be back again also.

I will say this, there are too many classes and this would help solve a lot of problems. Fix that first and then complain about 15 weeks of football. If that is what needs to be complained about.