[TidesHoss32]

At least we agree that Ward is one of the most underrated players in the league and I hope he stays in Pittsburgh his entire career.That being said he is no where close to the talent as Harrison and Wayne. E. James in his prime was rushing for 1,000 yards each season and one of the receiving RB. My point about Manning is that he panics early when the Colts are easily still in the game, which allows the defense to pin their ears back and not worry about the run despite having E. James and Joseph Addai. With the caliber of offense the Colts have, they only need three stops to keep them in the game. As for the Steelers run game, it was terrible last year. From the preseason games I watched this season so far, it is not going to pretty.

If I was Mike Tomlin, I would start Mewelde Moore..Moore is the best all around back on the team..Fast Willie couldnt break a little league tackle, Mendenhall is just plain timid, and hasnt impressed me AT ALL. I said last year, that Moore was our best back, and I think we should start him..

[Jarons]

If I was Mike Tomlin, I would start Mewelde Moore..Moore is the best all around back on the team..Fast Willie couldnt break a little league tackle, Mendenhall is just plain timid, and hasnt impressed me AT ALL. I said last year, that Moore was our best back, and I think we should start him..

Parker also gets hurt too much. I think that Mendenhall has not mentally gotten over the Ravens game last year when he hurt his shoulder. I thinks when he breaks that mental barrier he could be good. As far as the short term, you may be right in starting Moore.

TH32, it is great talking Steeler football with an "ally" and not defending them here in Colts h***. I live in the only place in America where I am the only Steeler fan.

[TidesHoss32]

Parker also gets hurt too much. I think that Mendenhall has not mentally gotten over the Ravens game last year when he hurt his shoulder. I thinks when he breaks that mental barrier he could be good. As far as the short term, you may be right in starting Moore.

TH32, it is great talking Steeler football with an "ally" and not defending them here in Colts h***. I live in the only place in America where I am the only Steeler fan.

Yeah I hate talking football with the casual "Steeler fan since '05"... I like talking it with tried and true diehards..talking about the down times, like watching Dan Marino torch us in the '84 AFC Championship 45-28, getting lit up 54-44 by Dan Fouts and San Diego on Sunday night football game of the week in '85, starting 1989 off losing 51-0 to Cleveland and 41-10 to Cincy, and bouncing back to make the playoffs..anybody can talk about the superbowls. I like talking about the hiring of Bill Cowher in '92 and beating Warren Moon and Houston in his first game 29-24, then going 11-5 and winning the division..the disgust of San Diego beating us in the AFC Championship game in '94, the thrill of beating Indy in the same game in '95 and going back to the superbowl..yeah man, I liked Dungy, but other than that, the Colts are the NFLs version of the 1990s Kansas Jayhawks in college basketball..and I agree with you about Peyton not being a big game performer. He's a great quarterback, no doubt, but he just doesnt play well in big games..and I would have loved to have had Edgerrin James carrying the football for the Steelers all those years, lol..Cowbell is right though, Indys defense was pretty horrible for a bunch of those years up there..I dont see them making a bunch of noise this year though..

[Wildcatk23]

First things first. The offical drink of the Steelers is a six-pack of Lombardi:champ:. Secondly. I guess we must have watched different Super Bowls this past year because I didnt see Ben handing off and relying on his defense on that last drive to win the game. I saw him will his team down the field. Ducking and dodging defenders to keep a play alive long enough to find an open receiver. Peyton or Tom Brady have both proven they will buckle when they face the kind of pressure Big Ben sees on every snap. I guess they dont want their hair messed up LOL!

did u just say that tom brady chokes? or am i reading this wrong

[HAIL PIKEVILLE!]

did u just say that tom brady chokes? or am i reading this wrong

Im not saying that at all. Id be a fool to make a statement like that. Tom Brady showed in his last super bowl appearence that he doesnt handle an effective pass rush all that well. The only problem is his O-line might be the best in the Biz so its hard to get after him consistently and he will cut your heart out when he has time.

[HAIL PIKEVILLE!]

Parker also gets hurt too much. I think that Mendenhall has not mentally gotten over the Ravens game last year when he hurt his shoulder. I thinks when he breaks that mental barrier he could be good. As far as the short term, you may be right in starting Moore.

TH32, it is great talking Steeler football with an "ally" and not defending them here in Colts h***. I live in the only place in America where I am the only Steeler fan.

Well TH32 and I are glad to see another Steeler fan on here. Were always trying to fend off Bungal fans on here.

[regound2]

1. Tom Brady
2. Peyton Manning
3. Drew Brees
4. Ben Roethlisberger
5. Donovan McNabb

[Nefarious83]

1. Tom Brady
2. Peyton Manning
3. Donavan McNabb
4. Big Ben
5. Matt Ryan
***15. Michael Vick

[Wildcatk23]

y u throwing in michael vick like that, hes an awesome quarterback

[More Cowbell]

At least we agree that Ward is one of the most underrated players in the league and I hope he stays in Pittsburgh his entire career.That being said he is no where close to the talent as Harrison and Wayne. E. James in his prime was rushing for 1,000 yards each season and one of the receiving RB. My point about Manning is that he panics early when the Colts are easily still in the game, which allows the defense to pin their ears back and not worry about the run despite having E. James and Joseph Addai. With the caliber of offense the Colts have, they only need three stops to keep them in the game. As for the Steelers run game, it was terrible last year. From the preseason games I watched this season so far, it is not going to pretty.

The Colts did have Edge for Peyton's earlier years, but that was when the defense could barely stop a little league team. And I think you discount the effect a team's defense has on its QB. If you as a QB know that your defense is probably going to allow the other team to score more often than not, it puts A LOT of pressure on you to try to keep up. It can't be a good feeling to think that even if you lead your offense to 35 points, that it still likely won't be enough to win. A QB with a strong defense, on the other hand, can go about his business with a little less urgency.

Here's how I look at it. Imagine that Brady, Manning, Big Ben, and all other NFL QB's were placed in identical situations; receivers of equal talent, similar running games, similar O-line's, equally talented defenses. Which QB would prove himself the best? I believe Manning would perform the best, with Brady just slightly behind, then a dropoff to guys like Roethlisberger, Brees, Rivers, and Palmer after that.

[Jarons]

The Colts did have Edge for Peyton's earlier years, but that was when the defense could barely stop a little league team. And I think you discount the effect a team's defense has on its QB. If you as a QB know that your defense is probably going to allow the other team to score more often than not, it puts A LOT of pressure on you to try to keep up. It can't be a good feeling to think that even if you lead your offense to 35 points, that it still likely won't be enough to win. A QB with a strong defense, on the other hand, can go about his business with a little less urgency.

Here's how I look at it. Imagine that Brady, Manning, Big Ben, and all other NFL QB's were placed in identical situations; receivers of equal talent, similar running games, similar O-line's, equally talented defenses. Which QB would prove himself the best? I believe Manning would perform the best, with Brady just slightly behind, then a dropoff to guys like Roethlisberger, Brees, Rivers, and Palmer after that.

Manning has proven time after time when he faces a high quality defense, he fails. Just watch replays of any Steeler or Patriot games in the playoffs. In a meaningless game in September give me Manning. In the clutch, Super Bowl on the line I would take Brady or Roethlisberger anytime. A top notch QB does not panic and leads the team in big games. Manning has yet to prove that to me. The offensive talent Manning has had around him, they could score 35 points in their sleep. The point that I have been trying to say is, a great QB will find a way to win in the big games. To me, that is what makes the a great QB. Quarterbacks greatness is defined by the postseason. Do think Bradshaw is in the HOF if he only won one or two SB's? I don't think so. His numbers are not HOF quality. When his defense failed in a big game he found a way to make a play.

[More Cowbell]

Manning has proven time after time when he faces a high quality defense, he fails. Just watch replays of any Steeler or Patriot games in the playoffs. In a meaningless game in September give me Manning. In the clutch, Super Bowl on the line I would take Brady or Roethlisberger anytime. A top notch QB does not panic and leads the team in big games. Manning has yet to prove that to me. The offensive talent Manning has had around him, they could score 35 points in their sleep. The point that I have been trying to say is, a great QB will find a way to win in the big games. To me, that is what makes the a great QB. Quarterbacks greatness is defined by the postseason. Do think Bradshaw is in the HOF if he only won one or two SB's? I don't think so. His numbers are not HOF quality. When his defense failed in a big game he found a way to make a play.

I have to disagree with this. You can't just look at the postseason to compare quarterbacks and ignore the regular season. Why would you use a small sample size of 2 or 3 games instead of 16? The more games, the more accuarte the assessment.

Also, you can't say a QB isn't great just because they lost a "big game". Too many other factors come into play, a game is not just won or lost simply by how the quarterback did. Look at Dan Marino. He never won a Super Bowl, but he is universally regarded as one of the all-time greats, and rightfully so. Why penalize Marino just because his TEAM wasn't as good as the opponent once he got to the playoffs? For that matter, a QB could even be the best in the league at his position, but may not even make the playoffs because the rest of his team sucks. That still doesn't change the fact that he is the best.

Everyone gives QB's so much credit for team victories. But imagine that Roethlisberger (or Brady or Manning) was the QB for the Lions. If his team only won 2-3 games, would you say that he is no longer an elite QB, even if he's still the same player?

Again, here's how I look at comparing QB's. Imagine that Brady, Manning, Big Ben, and all other NFL QB's were placed in identical situations; receivers of equal talent, similar running games, similar O-line's, equally talented defenses. Which QB would prove himself the best?

[Jarons]

I have to disagree with this. You can't just look at the postseason to compare quarterbacks and ignore the regular season. Why would you use a small sample size of 2 or 3 games instead of 16? The more games, the more accuarte the assessment.

Also, you can't say a QB isn't great just because they lost a "big game". Too many other factors come into play, a game is not just won or lost simply by how the quarterback did. Look at Dan Marino. He never won a Super Bowl, but he is universally regarded as one of the all-time greats, and rightfully so. Why penalize Marino just because his TEAM wasn't as good as the opponent once he got to the playoffs? For that matter, a QB could even be the best in the league at his position, but may not even make the playoffs because the rest of his team sucks. That still doesn't change the fact that he is the best.

Everyone gives QB's so much credit for team victories. But imagine that Roethlisberger (or Brady or Manning) was the QB for the Lions. If his team only won 2-3 games, would you say that he is no longer an elite QB, even if he's still the same player?

Again, here's how I look at comparing QB's. Imagine that Brady, Manning, Big Ben, and all other NFL QB's were placed in identical situations; receivers of equal talent, similar running games, similar O-line's, equally talented defenses. Which QB would prove himself the best?

To me, the reason Marino and Manning are considered great quarterbacks is because of their passing numbers. Yes they are better QB's than many that have won super bowls (Dilfer, Brad Johnson and many others). I use the playoff as a small sample size because they are playing the best. There are no Lions, Raiders, or Rams in the post season. It's easy being great against those teams. If any of those three were the QB for the Lions and won 2-3 games or more, I think they would be pretty popular in Detroit automatically raise their expectations quickly. I guess we have to agree to disagree on how we judge QB's.

[More Cowbell]

To me, the reason Marino and Manning are considered great quarterbacks is because of their passing numbers. Yes they are better QB's than many that have won super bowls (Dilfer, Brad Johnson and many others). I use the playoff as a small sample size because they are playing the best. There are no Lions, Raiders, or Rams in the post season. It's easy being great against those teams. If any of those three were the QB for the Lions and won 2-3 games or more, I think they would be pretty popular in Detroit automatically raise their expectations quickly. I guess we have to agree to disagree on how we judge QB's.

I guess we will just have to disagree, because I see numbers (a la Marino and Manning) as a better measure of individual talent than team success. Sure there are other factors that affect a QB's numbers too, such as the system he plays in or who he's throwing to. But it's not nearly as affected by other factors as team accomplishments.

It's funny, I'm on here defending Manning, when I'm not even a Colts fan. I just always thought it was a shame when he was criticized by the national media for "not winning the big one" all those years before he finally he got his ring. To me, the reality was that no QB could have won a title with the pitiful defenses he was saddled with.

[Jarons]

I guess we will just have to disagree, because I see numbers (a la Marino and Manning) as a better measure of individual talent than team success. Sure there are other factors that affect a QB's numbers too, such as the system he plays in or who he's throwing to. But it's not nearly as affected by other factors as team accomplishments.

It's funny, I'm on here defending Manning, when I'm not even a Colts fan. I just always thought it was a shame when he was criticized by the national media for "not winning the big one" all those years before he finally he got his ring. To me, the reality was that no QB could have won a title with the pitiful defenses he was saddled with.

I did think that was kind of funny when I saw you were a Bengals fan. You know, neither one of us is right or wrong. It is just our opinions on players are judged. It has been kind of fun debating this issue. I hope it is not over though

[More Cowbell]

I did think that was kind of funny when I saw you were a Bengals fan. You know, neither one of us is right or wrong. It is just our opinions on players are judged. It has been kind of fun debating this issue. I hope it is not over though

Yeah, I'm a Bengals fan, but my opinion of Roethlisberger has nothing to do with me not liking the Steelers. I can freely admit that Pittsburgh is the best team in the league right now, not to mention being the model franchise. So I'm not on here just trying to sandbag Big Ben. My opinion is just that being on the best team doesn't necessarily make you the best quarterback. However, everyone has their own take on the subject, and that's the fun of debating.

What's even funnier is that I used to boo Peyton Manning in college because he played for Tennessee, and now here I am defending him!

[Jarons]

Yeah, I'm a Bengals fan, but my opinion of Roethlisberger has nothing to do with me not liking the Steelers. I can freely admit that Pittsburgh is the best team in the league right now, not to mention being the model franchise. So I'm not on here just trying to sandbag Big Ben. My opinion is just that being on the best team doesn't necessarily make you the best quarterback. However, everyone has their own take on the subject, and that's the fun of debating.

What's even funnier is that I used to boo Peyton Manning in college because he played for Tennessee, and now here I am defending him!

My deepest sympathies lol. You can always come out of the darkside and root for the Steelers. We will welcome you in with open arms. Unless you live in the Louisville area you will always have an ally. I meet Steeler fans just about everywhere.

[mrsportsfan]

Even though the Steelers had the number 1 defense during the season, his offensive line was ranked somewhere I believe around 27. Now lets face it, that's not good. Here is Ben's career stats. When your o-line is ranked around 27th your qb had better be good and elusive. The guy usually throws better when flushed out of the pocket. When you can still when a SB, with that, you are a Elite QB.

Career Stats more SeasonTeamPassingRushingFumblesGGSCompAttPctYdsAvgTDIntSckSckYRateAttYdsAvgTDFUMLost2008 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 16 28146959.93,3017.017154628480.1341013.021472007 Pittsburgh Steelers 15 15 26440465.33,1547.8321147347104.1352045.82932006 Pittsburgh Steelers 15 15 28046959.73,5137.518234628075.432983.12522005 Pittsburgh Steelers 12 12 16826862.72,3858.91792312998.631692.23212004 Pittsburgh Steelers 14 13 19629566.42,6218.917113021398.1561442.6122TOTAL1,1891,90562.414,9747.9101691921,25389.41886163.3103215

Career Stats more SeasonTeamPassingRushingFumblesGGSCompAttPctYdsAvgTDIntSckSckYRateAttYdsAvgTDFUMLost2008 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 16 28146959.93,3017.017154628480.1341013.021472007 Pittsburgh Steelers 15 15 26440465.33,1547.8321147347104.1352045.82932006 Pittsburgh Steelers 15 15 28046959.73,5137.518234628075.432983.12522005 Pittsburgh Steelers 12 12 16826862.72,3858.91792312998.631692.23212004 Pittsburgh Steelers 14 13 19629566.42,6218.917113021398.1561442.6122TOTAL1,1891,90562.414,9747.9101691921,25389.41886163.3103215
http://www.nfl.com/players/benroethlisbe...=ROE750381

In the last three years Ben has been sacked 47, 46, 47. He's 46 yards shy of 15,000 yards passing if you don't count the pre-season. Brady has 4 more years in the league and 11,000 yards throwing on a team that has not been much on the running game. Some of the yards Brady threw were for over 4,300.

[Wildman62]

1. Tom Brady
2. Drew Brees
3. Peyton Manning
4. Phillip Rivers
5. Donovan McNabb

[DukeFan4life]

1. Tom Brady
2. Peyton Manning
3.Ben Roethlisberger
4. Eli Manning
5.Donovan McNabb

[mrsportsfan]

The Steelers rushing game again went nowhere. The Titans have a great defense and the air was knocked out of the Steelers defense there until they gathered their bearings after Troy went out. Ben went to the air throwing 33-43, 363 yards 1 td, 2 int. Ben admitted the first game season nerves got to him. As the game progressed he completed 16-18 in the 4th quarter in overtime. If I was the Steelers, since Jerome lost his gig as an NFL Broadcaster, I'd hire him as a running back coach. When he mentored Willie Parker, things went better, he would be great to be on the sidelines mentoring those running backs.

[Jarons]

The Steelers rushing game again went nowhere. The Titans have a great defense and the air was knocked out of the Steelers defense there until they gathered their bearings after Troy went out. Ben went to the air throwing 33-43, 363 yards 1 td, 2 int. Ben admitted the first game season nerves got to him. As the game progressed he completed 16-18 in the 4th quarter in overtime. If I was the Steelers, since Jerome lost his gig as an NFL Broadcaster, I'd hire him as a running back coach. When he mentored Willie Parker, things went better, he would be great to be on the sidelines mentoring those running backs.

In theory that would be a good idea. I don't think that Willie is playing with heart anymore. He does not run hard anymore and he falls if someone touches him with two hands. Without Ben, the Steelers lose the game. He stepped up when it matters again.

[what]

1-brady easy pick
2-manning
3-brees alot closer to manning than what most people think
next is a toss up eli, rodgers(is one guy who is not getting any props caz of brett favre), ryan, mcnabb(stop worrying about yourself and worry about your team), russell(has potential)

brady-easy pick.....i mean i might be a huge patriots fan but manning is definetly the better qb...no doubt

[Chunk]

1. Peyton Manning
2. Brett Favre
3. Tom Brady
4. Kurt Warner
5. Ben Roethlisberger

Drew Brees and Eli Manning are up there too...

[BuckMaster]

people have been talking saying that the only reason why Ben has had his success is because of the team that he has been surrounded by. well, if thats true then it applies to QB to ever play the game, and thats stupid. the QB is the main man when it comes to a football team. saying that if you replace Palmer and Ben that Palmer would have 2 superbowls is ridiculous. when the ravens were blitzing ben in the AFC title game last year he would escape and find a open man(Ben is the best QB in the league at scrambling out of the pocket and finding the open man), palmer's a** would have been sacked and there would have been no superbowl for him. Yes, Ben has been surrouded by great talent, BUT so has Payton, so has Brady, so has Eli, so has Brees, so saying that he has had this good of a career because of his team around him is stupid. Ben is behind Payton and Brady for third but, Brees and him TMO are tied for third. Both are great QBs. King Palmer as probably half the Bengals fans think he is a king is behing, Brady, both mannings, Ben, Rivers, Brees, McNabb.

[Wildcatk23]

1. Peyton Manning
2. Brett Favre
3. Tom Brady
4. Kurt Warner
5. Ben Roethlisberger

Drew Brees and Eli Manning are up there too...

Wait Wait, your not putting drew brees in your top 5? this is current star QBs not what they have done in the past

[Chunk]

Wait Wait, your not putting drew brees in your top 5? this is current star QBs not what they have done in the past

I wasn't aware it was top 5 QB's this year, I was thinking over the past few years. well in that case I would put Brees in my top 5, he would be 3rd. He is doing awesome this year, however, I feel like Peyton deserves number 1, he has thrown for over 300 yards in every game this year. Brett Favre has just made some remarkable passes this year to be 40 years old, he is playing great. Drew Brees is having an awesome year and I feel he is either 2nd or 3rd, but I'm putting him 3rd, just because what Favre is doing at age 40 is unbelievable and he deserves 2nd.

1. Peyton Manning
2. Brett Favre
3. Drew Brees
4. Tom Brady
5. Kurt Warner

[zaga_fan]

(Through week 5)

1 Peyton Manning
2. Drew Brees
3. Ben Roethlisberger
4. Kurt Warner
5. Bret Favre

There are about 10 tied for 6 lol
Sadly Brady is not on my list.....I believe he will be here before the season ends....but he just doesn't deserve it right now

[Wildcatk23]

:Thumbs:

I wasn't aware it was top 5 QB's this year, I was thinking over the past few years. well in that case I would put Brees in my top 5, he would be 3rd. He is doing awesome this year, however, I feel like Peyton deserves number 1, he has thrown for over 300 yards in every game this year. Brett Favre has just made some remarkable passes this year to be 40 years old, he is playing great. Drew Brees is having an awesome year and I feel he is either 2nd or 3rd, but I'm putting him 3rd, just because what Favre is doing at age 40 is unbelievable and he deserves 2nd.

1. Peyton Manning
2. Brett Favre
3. Drew Brees
4. Tom Brady
5. Kurt Warner

[BlackmanDingo]

im going to have to go with peyton,brady,big ben,eli,and farve